That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.

Who do you think is the killer?

Oume Gakumichi
4
10%
Abraham Lin- I mean Karube Teigo
11
28%
Suou Chiaki
3
8%
Furugaki Rinsaku
3
8%
The victim's dead husband who is actually not dead
1
3%
Chikai's dead brother who is actually not dead
1
3%
The swiss craftsman
2
5%
The clock did it!
15
38%
 
Total votes: 40
Dashin

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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Dashin »

Spoiler:
It seems everyone had some sort of sharp object. I just hope this case lasts more than 3 files. The fact that we have 4 suspects instead of the usual 3 might be hinting at that possibility. Conan seems to be suspecting some sort of trick towards the end of the last file, but there might be a need for some extra time to confirm it and then do the same-old deduction show.
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Eri-chan »

CaseClosed101 wrote:
Shuusgirl wrote:
Naw, can't be a poison, there was a ton of blood.  Much more likely it's some kind of knife.
Agreed. Maybe One of the umbrella's steel rods thingy?
But a knife isn't formless. And poisons can be messy, though I don't know of any where blood comes out of anywhere except the mouth. So how is an umbrella's steel rod formless? My vote is still on an ice weapon.
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Conan 48:69

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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Conan 48:69 »

I wonder how could Conan use Sleeping Kogoro this time, since during White Valentine Day, when we last seen Sleeping Kogoro, and Kogoro had been noticed when there is his voice coming from somewhere else, he will feel the prickering sensation from his neck muscle, he also notice sometime is on his forehead now. Will Kogoro discover a new thing again when Sleeping Kogoro going to be used again.
Last edited by Conan 48:69 on January 24th, 2011, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stopwatch

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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Stopwatch »

Also to add on Conan 48:69's point Takagi almost definitely knows about the watch after last file plus they have been putting a lot of emphasis on the police side of things in 763 so there's two people who could be suspicious if Conan tries to pull a Sleeping Kogoro
Last edited by Stopwatch on January 26th, 2011, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Abs. »

Multiple things to be aware of:
Spoiler:
1.  The missing foldable umbrella
- It was used to shield the blood splatter
- Could have also housed the weapon
- It was springy and soft
- Megure keeps mentioning the rain
2.  The relationship between the butler and the clock technician?
- Why would the sister single the butler out and accuse him of not having looked for her brother?
3.  The well which is to be filled in the following week
- Likely the location of the weapon/umbrella
4.  The clocks not chiming "on time" even though they did
- Someone messed with her pocket watch so that the trick would work
5.  Did Karube have something he needed to have been confirmed by the police - is that why he insisted on everyone's cooperation?
- Or was it that he couldn't leave without his umbrella, since it had started raining again?
6.  The clock technician gave the cane to the old man ten years ago - that seems to also have been when the great clock was made.
- Not sure if there's any meaning here.
7.  Butler seems pretty nervous throughout his questioning.
- His reactions to questions seem overblown...
8.  The shape of the tip of the hour hand on that clock is odd.
- Like a pincer
9.  Lifeline?
- How did the clock technician fall even though he was attached via a lifeline?  Does the lifeline play a part in the string trick?

tl;dr version: Karube with the umbrella, the clock, and a string
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Misztina

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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Misztina »

In addition the weirdest thing is
Spoiler:
that the clock in the front of the house and behind the house were not in harmony. At the begining of the file it shows seven past seven, later in the back it shows 6:35, and at the end of the file the one in fronz showed five to midnight and perhaps after 5 minutes the clock in the back is pointing to midnight.
Is that a mistake or has someone got rid of an evidence?
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Abs. »

@Misztina
Spoiler:
Yeah I'm not sure about that...  They actually match up in the beginning of the file, then the odd 6:35 thing, then back to match up again at the end of the file.  Logically no one should have been able to slip out during the whole time the police were there, but this is DC  ;D
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Misztina »

:D That's right. Every single drawn line is a clue!
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Stopwatch

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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Stopwatch »

The thing about the umbrella is that although we've seen it Conan hasn't (or at least I don't remember him seeing it), so he'll have to reach his conclusion missing a possibly vital piece of evidence. If he still gets it correct (he's Conan of course he will) then the  only evidence pointing to the culprit he will have to go off is the weird bloodstains. This doesn't account for if there were accomplices though and doesn't show how the umbrella was got rid of. This is presuming it was the umbrella guy and not someone else (the butler would probably put the umbrellas together in the same place so they'd be easy enough to get hold of and as it's raining they'd be at least one for certain)
Last edited by Stopwatch on January 28th, 2011, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Terry Pratchett wrote: The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
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Spoiler: Box full of stuff
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cashman_11

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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by cashman_11 »

While I could be wrong, I think this case will somehow relate to the Black Organization, for the following two reasons:
1. We haven't had a Black Organization case in a while, and just like others have said, it follows the stream of time thing.
2. Gosho already did a case about a lot of clocks, so either he really likes clocks, or this case will be important. (The case I'm refering to is episodes 105-106, the one with the mansion filled with clocks)
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Shuusgirl »

cashman_11 wrote: While I could be wrong, I think this case will somehow relate to the Black Organization, for the following two reasons:
1. We haven't had a Black Organization case in a while, and just like others have said, it follows the stream of time thing.
2. Gosho already did a case about a lot of clocks, so either he really likes clocks, or this case will be important. (The case I'm refering to is episodes 105-106, the one with the mansion filled with clocks)
It doesn't have to be a big deal with the B.O., but a reminder they still exist would be nice...
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by CaseClosed101 »

Shuusgirl wrote:
cashman_11 wrote: While I could be wrong, I think this case will somehow relate to the Black Organization, for the following two reasons:
1. We haven't had a Black Organization case in a while, and just like others have said, it follows the stream of time thing.
2. Gosho already did a case about a lot of clocks, so either he really likes clocks, or this case will be important. (The case I'm refering to is episodes 105-106, the one with the mansion filled with clocks)
It doesn't have to be a big deal with the B.O., but a reminder they still exist would be nice...
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by KuroyashiRusuba »

Eri-chan wrote:
CaseClosed101 wrote:
Shuusgirl wrote:
Naw, can't be a poison, there was a ton of blood.  Much more likely it's some kind of knife.
Agreed. Maybe One of the umbrella's steel rods thingy?
But a knife isn't formless. And poisons can be messy, though I don't know of any where blood comes out of anywhere except the mouth. So how is an umbrella's steel rod formless? My vote is still on an ice weapon.
Wouldn’t air or wind be considered more formless than an ice weapon? Like maybe the formless sword meant that the murder trick will be done using the wind in someway (which could be why the threating note was sent the last two years without a murder occurring until now - the weather conditions weren’t met.)
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Dus »

Spoiler: Chekhov, for the people who are not stalking her out ;)
The murderer is is Karube Teigo, the architect. He used his collapsible umbrella to murder Hoshina Rukako. The handle part concealed the icepick-like blade, while the umbrella part was used to block the majority of the blood from splashing onto his clothes. After reassembling and collapsing the umbrella, he disposed of the umbrella down the well by using some contraption tied to the well and the tower clock.

Why murder didn't occur until the third year
The first clue is that the murderer sent the letter twice previously, but there is no indication of a countdown. This mean the circumstances weren’t correct for the murderer on Hoshino’s last two birthdays. It is raining this time which provides the excuse to have an umbrella. Karube Teigo has a foldable umbrella he kept with him and he even put it in his jacket while wet instead of checking it with the butler. Also the rain would hide string contraptions more effectively because people would be less likely to look up.

Timeline of events
After everyone cleared out of the clocktower, but before the party, Karube Teigo took the time to prepare the contraption/string trick at the well and the tower clock. The contraption works so when the tower clock strikes six, a string is cut or slips which causes the string that had been run through the well grating and then the balcony door to pull the umbrella that the culprit tied to it into the well. I imagine there is some weight dangling in the well which will cause the umbrella to be yanked at high speed, enough to throw open the unlocked, outward-facing door. I'll try to elaborate on the mechanics later.

During the party, Karube Teigo took the time to touch Hoshina Rukako's necklace and apply luminescent paint. He also asks to examine Hoshina's pocketwatch. He had to set Hoshina's pocketwatch fast to ensure he has time between when she blows out the candles and the tower clock strikes six to attach the murderous umbrella to the contraption before it sets off. The butler says that Hoshina always times the blowing out of the candles with the first chime of the clocks. Ran points out that Hoshina was early, and the butler says the clock technicians assigned said the clocks went off at the correct time. This means Hoshina's pocketwatch, which was her reference, was fast. It is most likely the reason she was angry right before she was murdered because she noticed the clocks didn't go off properly according to her.

When the butler turns the light out, Karube Teigo opens the umbrella and separates the handle which conceals an icepick like blade. When he does this, it creates a cloth friction sound like a lady's dress moving which Karube himself noted. In the process of getting close to Hoshina Rukako, the umbrella brushes up against Furugaki Rinsaku who mistook the springy feeling for a fat person's body passing him. The umbrella seems like a nimble person to Suou Chiaki because it is lightweight and easily moves.

I hazard that Karube Teigo held the umbrella near his body with one hand to block the blood spatter and held the separated handle blade with the other, and he stabbed the blade through the umbrella into Hoshina Rukako's back. This resulted in the unusual parabola shaped boundary where the blood was blocked by the circular shape of the umbrella. He then closed the umbrella and reattached the handle which would get blood on his hands and cuffs, tied it to the contraption, and then positioned himself to kneel when the lights are turned on so he could explain the blood on his hands and cuffs.

The contraption goes off right when the tower clock strikes six which pulls the umbrella through the door at high speed, flinging it open and leaving rubbed blood marks on porch from dragging. The umbrella is dragged through the grating into the well and the left over string either goes with it or is wrapped up into the gears of the tower clock somehow. The weather forecast said the rain should have stopped in the evening. Karube Teigo was counting on that to avoid questions about the absense of footprints, but it didn't turn out the way he wanted casting suspicion on the party members.

Evidence
There should be plenty of evidence such as fingerprints on the umbrella since Karube was not wearing gloves earlier. Karube also doesn't have the umbrella when he hits questioning despite putting it in his jacket earlier. Any remnants of string in the tower clock and the well and the pocket watch being fast will prove the mechanics of the trick. Karube hasn't washed his hands which have blood on them before he was questioned, so if he applied the luminescent paint with his bare fingers, the paint should show up among the blood with a black light; however, other people handling the necklace later might have paint on them as well. The same goes for Karube's fingerprints being on the pocketwatch because other people might have handled it.

I still have to explain the positioning of the other suspects and why they have the bloodstains on certain parts of their body, but I imagine the umbrella probably protected them as well from most of the the blood splatter. I also need to prove that no one else could have committed the crime, but I think Karube is the only one who handled the pocketwatch before the crime with an umbrella and could set the previously precisely ontime pocketwatch fast. The mysterious bit is why Karube pressed for an investigation when he bothered to set up the trick in the first place. He did say that he wasn't keen that the ghost of his childhood friend could be made out to be the culprit. If he cared enough to murder someone, then perhaps he cares enough not to sully the name of his dead friend?
I definitely agree with her about Karube being the culprit and that he must have used the umbrella to shield himself from the blood. Unfortunately, the one question I had absolutely no answer for is still left unanswered: What kind of contraption did the culprit use? It's apparent it's something to do with the clock and the well and that it had to happen at 6 o'clock. But that's as far as I get. Maybe it's something to do with the fact, that the hands of the clock form a straight line at six? Dunno how that could be exploited though. And what about that white thingamajig we see on one of the hands? Maybe the clockwork was manipulated to do something extraordinary at 6 o'clock, like fast-forwarding 24 hours, for that trick to work. But that would mean Karube either has experience as a clockmaker (makes sense for the motive) or the old man was in it as well. I'm also not quite sure he set her pocket watch fast to make sure he can get rid of the weapon, that was only an extra second or two.
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Re: That Case with the Clocks (files 762-76X)

Post by Akonyl »

Regarding the clock contraption, I don't think it's that a string is "cut" at 6 like Chek is suggesting. Rather:
Spoiler:
As Abs. noted, the hour hand of the clock houses a very small, inconspicuous pincer on the end. If one was to put an object with a curved handle like the cane or umbrella into this and hang it, the pincer would hold it in place until it hits exactly 6 o'clock, at which point (given that the handle's diameter is exactly the same as the pincer's width) the object will fall out, triggering the beginning of the mechanism.
edit:
I also feel like noting that while I think Karube was the culprit with the umbrella, I also think the clock architect may have also been in on it.
Last edited by Akonyl on January 27th, 2011, 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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