Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

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dilbertschalter

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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by dilbertschalter »

It is in my harsh belief that if one doesn't respect authorship,
don't even think of publishing,
Well, they paid the original publishers to license it, and those publishers apparently aren't offended by the name changes, otherwise they would have made them stop.
7.  I must say I don't care for it when people use the term 'weeaboo'.  It always used as an attempt to short-circuit a discussion by insulting someone.  I'd rather never see it again on this board.
Very, well I shall use 'people who are overly obssessed with Japan, to the point where the ignore common sense'.  ::) I was just stating my disgust, not try to stop anyone from talking.
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TromOuji
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by TromOuji »

dilbertschalter wrote: Very, well I shall use 'people who are overly obssessed with Japan, to the point where the ignore common sense'.  ::) I was just stating my disgust, not try to stop anyone from talking.
Not liking name changes hardly qualifies someone for obsession.  Wanting to rant and boycott over name changes is probably (IMO) not really motivated by some obsessive love of Japanese either, but by a more general idea about creative works.  Not that I'm saying it's not taken to extremes.

In Conan, for example, I don't see any value in the name changes.  It was probably done to cover some corporate moron's ass (don't fall for the cover story here).  Yes the publisher made the decisions, perhaps the author is OK with them, or is just OK with having the additional income and doesn't really care.  Or who knows, perhaps Aoyama hates them passionately, but doesn't want to speak out against his publishers.  We'll probably never know.  In any case, I don't see how their approval/acquiescence has anything to do with my opinion.

As for 'weeaboo', if someone is like super obsessing with Japan on the board, then I might use that myself.  But to throw it around when it's quite debatable what the person's motives are, isn't that just name calling?
thriceplus

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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by thriceplus »

While I obviously want them to retain their original names, I can kind of see what they are trying to do.

For example, Pokemon, Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Beyblade all changed Americanized the names to attract a wider audience. I assume that not a lot of Pokemon fans really know that Ash's Japanese name is Satoshi. Considering the popularity of Yu-Gi-Oh!, not a lot of people are boycotting it just because Anzu Mazaki changed her name to Tea Gardner, which is completely off.

They are probably trying to do that with Conan as well. Unlike InuYasha and Naruto, which is for a more teen audience that is likely to be already familiar with anime, I'm guessing that they are targeting Conan for all audiences, especially little kids that are just randomly flipping channels on television.
Rellik
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Rellik »

I do agree with the making the names more for american's but:
Shinichi = Jimmy - lamest name change ever
Ran - why not stick as Ran? (Not to confuse viewers when they say like 'Ran ran away'?) :P
Kogoro = Richard - ok-ish
Heiji = Harley - Might as well call him 'Wheat'  :P
Ai = Anita - The name just doesn't just doesn't suit her personality
Gin/Vodka - let's not talk about it...
Shakura

Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Shakura »

Tenken wrote:
That's exactly my thought!
If you choose to read manga, you should be willing to accept Japanese culture.

The reason for names change is because Americans cannot memorize or pronounce Japanese names.

It's still absurd, though:  what if Mark Twain named one of his characters "Chmielewskovar "Wojciechowski" ?  Would the publishers blatantly change it to "Charles" or Williams" and bear a loss of value ?

So it seems they don't have any reasonable motive for doing it to DC.
Not to mention they picked the most well-known series to dump their stupidity on.

Would you still read "Inuyasha" if Inuyasha's name were changed to "Jack" ?
So if you change Japanese names, you lose ALL the Japanese culture?  I'll admit it's inconsistent, but in the grand scheme of things, the names are a really trivial and minor change.  It screws with creativity, but only a little bit.

  Indeed, it feels like TMS is making it look like Americans are xenophobic/lazy by changing names, but VIZ is not robbing the story of its culture ENTIRELY.  In fact, VIZ leaves in almost all the Japanese puns/clues that FUNi has/would have cut out or written over!  That being said, the only thing Japanese that Viz really leaves out is the names. 

In Japan, DC is mostly aimed as a family kid-friendly show.  TMS wanted to market it to Americans as a family show, with name changes, something that successful animes in the US like Pokémon and Sailor Moon have had.  However, while DC has a kiddy tone and look, it's very violent and I don't think I have to elaborate on how Americans are with violence and showing it to kids.  DC's somewhat of an oddman out for Americans, because it's too aimed at family-friendly for adults and too violent for kids. 
Tenken wrote:

How can you consider it "quality" when : (1) the cover is worse than it appears in other countries, (2) names (as said), (3) title changed, (4) plot altered, etc. ?

It is in my harsh belief that if one doesn't respect authorship,
don't even think of publishing,
Aren't you exaggerating a bit? You can't expect exact perfection; there's no such thing. All I see in Viz's adaptation is name changes, title change, translated sound effects, and the icon erased on Heiji's hat (which would make for a REAL lawsuit by the Chicago WhiteSox). 

As people before me have said before, the names are TMS's fault.  If they tick you off that much, contact TMS or just buy the Japanese books.  Viz was forced to change the names, but given that the current arc in the manga is far surpassing FUNi's anime adaptation, the need for name changes is starting to wane a little; that's most likely why you're not seeing as much changes.  But, going back through all the current 23 volumes just to change names would be unrealistic, especially if the books aren't selling like hotcakes like Naruto

As for how the cover looks, that's a personal preference, not an all-out fact.  Yeah, they don't do the brick-thing the Japanese and German versions do, but the publishers for the French, Vietnamese, etc. adaptations don't either.  Some editions just have Conan on a solid background and that's it.  While I admit the design is average, it's not an abomination in the name of Gosho or anything.

The overall plot of the series is not terribly affected by the names and keeps the basics intact.  It only suffers minor scratches, which would be mystery name references to literature(which are just added there for winks at mystery fans, to be honest) and the BO codenames, which were only changed for Gin and Vodka; Tequila, Sherry, and Akemi's name were left in.  They'll probably make "Kaspar" and "Melkior" out to be alcohol brands like they did in volume 12 (Kogoro saying he drank "Kaspar" GIN, and "Melkior" VODKA, for example). 
Last edited by Shakura on June 23rd, 2008, 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tenken

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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Tenken »

@ Shakura: I haven't bought any from VIZ.
The original post would have been just a bit more persuasive if it didn't screw up Kogorou's name.  I'll post a big rant about the idea of zapping the "u" off Japanese names soon.  God I hate that.
My Japanese sensei would Romanize it as "Kogoroo" and "arigatou" as "aligatoo".  Some ppl. would put a dash above the "o" to signify long vowel. So ? ;D 
LymphatusDjarno wrote: What I don't get is why they decided to Americanize Detective Conan from a business stand point.

Obviously, they know that their main consumers are going be manga/anime fans. And if you're a manga/anime fan, you probably have some interest in (or at least no aversion to) Japanese conventions and culture. You would want something in English that reflects as closely as possible the original content. The argument probably will be made that the changes were made to attract a wider audience. (I put myself in this category, I didn't watch anime before watching Conan and it's the only anime I watch now.) If they had been more faithful to the original, I don't think I would have been anyless prone to watch and been like "What!? This about Japanese people?!?! What the hell do I care about Japanese people? Where are the Americans!" And it's not like it's hard to figure out it's from Japan. In fact, if this was the intention of the changes, the first name they should have changed was Conan Edogawa. I know Edogawa isn't a Japanese name but it certainly sounds a lot more Japanese than American. Americans aren't nearly as xenophobic as we sometimes are made/make ourselves out to be.

That's exactly my thought!
If you choose to read manga, you should be willing to accept Japanese culture.
The French can do it really well, why can't you ?

Plot changed :  Names bespeak about the persons. 
In DC, there were times when Conan made his deductions based on names.
For example: in the first appearance of KID 1412 in vol 16: Conan deduced that Suzuki Tomoko (Sonoko's mother) must be the one holding the real pearl, based on the meaning of her name.
Another ex: in vol 25 - the Spider-web murder case (correct me if I'm wrong):  Conan got it right that Misa and the twins must have the same father based on the connectivity of their names:  Misa-Sae-Emi
etc.

The reason for names change is because Americans cannot memorize or pronounce Japanese names.
It's also their unwilingness to accept differences.


It's still absurd, though: what if Mark Twain named one of his characters "Chmielewskovar "Wojciechowski" ?  Would the publishers blatantly change it to "Charles" or Williams" and bear a loss of value ? 

There is no reasonable motive for altering the work.
Take others' works like they're yours.
Not to mention they picked the most well-known series to dump their stupidity on.
Last edited by Tenken on September 27th, 2008, 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jd-
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Jd- »

Tenken wrote: Would you still read "Inuyasha" if Inuyasha's name were changed to "Jack" ?
John. Or Leopold.
Shakura

Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Shakura »

Tenken wrote: @ Shakura: oh you don't have to tell me, I haven't bought any from VIZ.
Can someone give me contact info of TMS ?
Here you go. ;)  http://www.tms-e.co.jp/english/contact.html 

Plot changed :  Names bespeak about the persons. 
In DC, there were times when Conan made his deductions based on names.
For example: in the first appearance of KID 1412 in vol 16: Conan deduced that Suzuki Tomoko (Sonoko's mother) must be the one holding the real pearl, based on the meaning of her name.
Another ex: in vol 25 - the Spider-web murder case (correct me if I'm wrong):  Conan got it right that Misa and the twins must have the same father based on the connectivity of their names:  Misa-Sae-Emi
etc.
You do have a point there. :\ The changes definitely affected the Suzuki-tsuki thing.  The character "moon" was mentioned, but it all didn't really make sense in  the end.    I don't even see why they've mentioned it if it wouldn't fit in at all.  Though The deductions covering names and puns are glazed over in the anime FUNi dub, but *not* Viz's manga translation.

Except for volume 16's moon pronunciation in Suzuki, the name deduction clues have been left intact so far.  The kanji pun on Seiji Aso's "Narumi" alias in the Moonlight Sonata case (vol. 7), the dying message with the shogi pieces that revealed the punned name of the culprit (vol. 11), and the light trick based on names and letter/kanji switches in the clock mansion case (vol. 17) were all left in. 

As for those twins in volume 25, which isn't out yet in English, I'm sure that'll be left in because they aren't one of the major/supporting characters, like Sonoko or any of her family members that'll share the "Sebastion" name change.
The reason for names change is because Americans cannot memorize or pronounce Japanese names.
It's also their unwilingness to accept differences.
Eh, pretty true in a way.  That's definitely an ignorance that TMS seemed to bring into light.  I mean, are they stuck in the 90s or something, where it was somewhat normal to make name changes?  After all, it's very rare for those types of changes to occur today.  Maybe TMS is out of touch with how changes are managed nowadays.  The title changing still goes on (Karin -> Chibi Vampire or Konjiki no Gash Bell -> Zatch Bell for example), but names...not so much.  Just in kids' animes, like anything done by 4Kids. 

That being said it could also be that they feel that it wasn't Americans in general, but American kids wouldn't remember/like foreign names, given that's who they most likely had in mind for the demographic?  It's possible though I can't say so for sure; I don't work for TMS or anything.  They were also ignorant that marketing a murder mystery anime to kids wouldn't work for American audiences.  Figures.

Still, even though annoying that TMS would localize for the reason, but in the grand scheme of things, the names are disappointing and an outdated method to gain a wide audience, but don't hurt the manga.  They would only really hurt the anime, since FUNi writes around/omits the name puns.

EDIT: Gah, silly quote tags threw my post off a bit. :P
Last edited by Shakura on June 23rd, 2008, 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tsurugi
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Tsurugi »

Tenken wrote: My Japanese sensei would Romanize it as "Kogoroo" and "arigatou" as "aligatoo".  Some ppl. would put a dash above the "o" to signify long vowel. So ? ;D  Doesn't make any difference in pronunciation.
While the double-o is used in some romanization standards, as well as the macron or circumflex above the "o", they are both forms that have high potential to confuse the beginning Japanese student.  Each of these forms imply that the word is written with an "oo" for the long vowel sound, but in real Japanese that is certainly not the case. In most of these cases, the long "o" vowel is extended with an "u", such as in ã
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by dilbertschalter »

Not liking name changes hardly qualifies someone for obsession.  Wanting to rant and boycott over name changes is probably (IMO) not really motivated by some obsessive love of Japanese either, but by a more general idea about creative works.  Not that I'm saying it's not taken to extremes.
If only:
That's exactly my thought!
If you choose to read manga, you should be willing to accept Japanese culture.
There is weabooism in its pure undistilled essence, excessive concern about Japanese culture to the point of completrly throwing aside common sense.
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Grey rose »

what ?????????  i didn't know until I read this post !!
oh my , come to think of it...
Ran is a flower (orchid)
Haibara is also a flower (gray rose)
Kisaki is.... i guess, queen
fit their personalities
Anita - urrr is this a pet's name? :<

'Americanize' it like that, I mean like that.  i  would laugh at this ignorance nonstop.  btw, it's also ironic , the term "Americanization" I mean ,  'cause 'American' is a mixed race .  What is an "American", who can define ::)
Last edited by Grey rose on June 24th, 2008, 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by Grey rose »

i don't find the reason for names change in DC, whether it's culture sensitivity, prob in pronunciation, commercial, or even unwillingness to learn new things..... acceptable, because other series can fare really well without changes (like Inuyasha, Ranma, Maison Ikkoku, Death Note, Kaze Hikaru, etc.)
yea so i don't find any reason acceptable  ::)
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by kat1214young »

Yeah sorry about that. I thought it has the same meaning; the pseudonym and the counter part. I just happen to find it because I was writing a research proposal...  ;D LOL
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by samcurt »

Stupid OP. Viz just did it under Japanese orders; you should convince TMS.
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Re: Convince VIZ to stop changing the characters' names!

Post by dilbertschalter »

Stupid OP. Viz just did it under Japanese orders; you should convince TMS.
This post is full of so much win I'm surprised the forums didn't explode from it.
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"The energies of our system will decay; the glory of the sun will be dimmed, and the earth, tideless and inert, will no longer tolerate the race which has for a moment disturbed its solitude. Man will go down into the pit, and all his thoughts will perish. The uneasy consciousness, which in this obscure corner has for a brief space broken the contented silence of the universe, will be at rest. Matter will know itself no longer. 'Imperishable monuments' and 'immortal deeds,' death itself, and love stronger than death, will be as though they had never been."
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