Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,094–1,096

[Anton-9]

Well there was a small hint that someone wearing grey trousers is following Masumi and Conan from file 1094. But during the last panel it is shown that the old man is looking directly at Mary and Masumi from a distance. So either he is Kohji's dad who likes to ensure that the mother daughter duo is alright or he is an acquaintance of Mary who wants APTX for himself.

I just can't imagine the deception when this old guy turns out to be the boss himself. If I was caught up with the manga before the end of 2017 I would have definitely denied all the Carasuma=Boss theories and would have probably struck them as a low-level move from Gosho. And after the seemingly shallow Rum reveal, I guess at least most people are accepting the fact that the new old man may be Carasuma. That for me will break the series' legacy. I started promising and ended up in a bad way.

I have full trust in Gosho; the Wakita=RUM has more hidden facts behind it and Anokata is an interesting male character who was once a good guy.

That is surely happening but Karasuma shouldn't even know that Mary is alive after the drugging, unless he has a hint he won't lay a trap like this. This is more likely to be an Akai allay(Haneda Patriarch) if not Tsutomu himself.

[HatiMMOS]

That is surely happening but Karasuma shouldn't even know that Mary is alive after the drugging, unless he has a hint he won't lay a trap like this. This is more likely to be an Akai allay(Haneda Patriarch)

Exactly.

if not Tsutomu himself.

Oi oi xD

[Anton-9]

But I'm more interested about the driver here. Nobody felt his presence, he even wore a pair of shades to obfuscate his identity. Has a very similar beard style and face shape like Tsutomu.
Given his employer is an Akai ally I officially put him in Tsutomu candidates list.
My current list is
Kuroda, Muga and this Driver guy.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Tsutomu candidates list.
My current list is
Kuroda, Muga and this Driver guy.

I still think Tsutomu is dead and there is no one infront of us in this arc similar to his character , Tsutomu has both healthy eyes , he is very very intelligent and it is difficult if he is alive to let his family be poisoned and assassinated by Vermouth or Gin ... The organization knows him very well, his name,his face and his family So I think he died at their hands like Jodie's father .

Iam sure Haneda Kohji's father is Kuroda,,he's been a friend of Tsutomu for a long time and he's also the one who finances Mary and Sera .. Anime even put the three in one picture at the beginning of one of episodes , so he's a trusted person with Mary and Sera,, he also adopts Shukichi as well. So surely Kuroda knows that Mary is shrunken . I mean he doesn't need to do that malicious move made by the mysterious old man and his driver at end of file 1096,,,, As for Kuroda's age, it is definitely fake because in one of the episodes in which Kuroda appeared, episode 815 if i remember well , the victim was less than her age written in front of us by about five years, so Kuroda's age will be 60 or more .

As for the mysterious old man, he will be most likely Momiji's grandfather who mentioned twice in file 1088. There is a bond between Haneda and Oka, so it is possible that Kuroda/Kohji's father is married to a woman from Oka family , so Momiji's grandfather will be Kohji's grandmother who hates the police who haven't caught Kohji's killer yet,,, Kuroda may have been on his last visit to Oka , told the old man that Tsutomo's wife is shrunken , but Mary doesn't trust and meet anyone except Kuroda and members of Mi6,,, so this old man had to go by himself and gather information . His driver turned on the alarm in the hotel so old man could see Mary with his own eyes .

Also for the old man , I think in addition to the above, he will also be Fusai's stepfather , and the former head of NPA before Kuroda, or he may be the head of the Shirohato Pharmaceuticals.... Well, some of these possibilities may actually come true, or maybe not .

[Anton-9]

Kuroda is not Haneda's dad. Haneda's dad won't be allowed to impersonate a NPA agent and inducted into anti BO mission just like that.
Iori has already confirmed that Kuroda is an old timer in NPA. So the chance is pretty low for Yasuharu Haneda who would be at least 20-22 years older than Kohji (if alive he would be around 45-46) years of age. So Kuroda doing what he does as a 67-68 year old man seems far fetched.
But I agree that he might be a cousin or younger brother of Kohji's mom.

Mary didn't even tell Shukichi that she was poisoned and shrunk as a side effect. She other than her close associates in MI6 (who faked a passport for her) allowed nobody to know of her current condition. So she keeps herself hidden. Obviously unless the old man has some ties with MI6 he won't get the tip, so someone from MI6 must have tipped him.

Tsutomu Akai is very much alive. His body was never found, he has this many high flying allies in Japan. He is either hiding as a butler/driver/NPA officer.

[Kor]

It's been several months since my last post, so may as well write some thoughts.

Starting from the most recent stuff, admittedly, I was initially a bit skeptical over the driver being Billy (as was suggested by various people), but I'm now almost sold on this being the case. He definitely does look like Billy, too much for it to be a coincidental recycled design.
If he is indeed Billy, then it's interesting to note that all the way back in the first case tackling the Kouji murder case, there were Fusae-branded glasses. (only Gosho can tell if it was meant to be foreshadowing, though. I just found the connection interesting)

Regarding the sick old man, the Yasuhara solution seems the most likely now. Seemingly mysterious-maybe-bad character finds crucial info about the secrets of a good character that puts them at risk (and thus raising the tension), usually turns out to be just fake tension in this manga because the mysterious character wasn't actually bad.
inb4 mary's fleeing not from the BO, but from Kouji's father because she and masumi abused his credit cards and used way more money than he thought they would
If it turns out the sick dude is Karasuma (and the driver is Billy's evil twin brother), I wouldn't really mind, though. Lackluster reveals are now commonplace for this manga.

About Tsutomu, I'm still in the Kuroda camp. The different voice actors thing does put a dent in it, though (especially when Tsutomu's VA is way more famous than Kuroda's), so dunno how they'd handle this aspect if the two characters are the same person.
This would make an interesting reversal regarding the fake death plots of the father and son. Bourbon (and Vermouth) disguised as Shuichi with a burn scar, while the real one was uninjured. And with Tsutomu, Vermouth disguised as an uninjured version of Tsutomu, while the real one may have a real burn scar (if Kuroda's face isn't also a mask).

Looks like I have to retract what I said about the dear ol' butler of Momiji. It does seem like he's relevant somehow after all, but I'm still not convinced he'll be super important, especially in the current state of the manga when a character like Koumei turns out to be retroactively Scotch's brother, which I guess gives him some relevancy points, but it has yet to actually mean anything in the grand scheme of things. (As another example, Shuukichi is plot relevant, but so far his only contribution to the plot was namedropping Kouji's name and kicking that thread in motion.)
There was, however, one reddit post that gave me a bit of a pause. Basically, that poster asserted that Muga is Tsutomu. It had several reasons why, but the one that stuck out to me the most was how Muga used the fake name Shinichi Wada (Watson's Japanese name), and then connected it to the fact that Watson's wife in the Sherlock Holmes stories is called... Mary. Considering name references are a big part in the meta of this manga, this is a fairly strong point, not gonna lie. A resurgence of the Wada/Tsutomu theory is also funny because upon his first appearance, way back when the spoiler chat box of the site still existed, a bunch of users immediately noted his initial resemblance to Shuichi and went with the idea that he could be a somehow APTXed Tsutomu, so if it ends up that his identity was what people assumed in the very first place, that'd be... a thing.
Why I still don't think this is the right answer, though, is the following:
1) Tsutomu has an entire family to worry about, so I find it ridiculous he'd spend his time being the butler of a spoiled high schooler and do her biddings that include stalking the boy she has the hots for.
2) The different voice actors. Tsutomu disappeared 17 years before the start of the series, when Mary was in her 30s, so Tsutomu was also likely in his 30s. Muga is said to be 30. Whether it's a fake age and he might be slightly younger or slightly older, in this age range, you wouldn't experience much of a change in your voice, so the voice actors would thus have to be the same. Now, this is more of an anime-oriented argument, and I do have to wonder how Vermouth knows what Tsutomu sounds like in the first place, but at least with the Kuroda option, it's more believable that Tsutomu's voice could change with age or due to whatever it was that had happened to him.

[Anton-9]

I do have some observations if you will, this driver of the sick man to me doesn't look like Billy.

Firstly the chin looks too sharp to be Billy's. Second for this whole operation the sick old man needs to be sure that Mary is alive but for some reason not appearing infront of Shukichi. Only Yasuharu Haneda is the position to infer this equation (if he fesses up then Ooka retiree too might become an option), now Fusae Campbell and Kohji Haneda doesn't seem to be related or in that sense she doesn't looks like to be related to anybody else who is relevant in this Kohji case stuff.
So imo doesn't look like Billy also Billy might not have a good opportunity to be the driver of the old man. A comparison https://freeimage.host/i/h0pY0v

(Billy's face is less sharper than the spy-driver's. The spy-driver's moustache is different from Billy's so is his beard which is more unkempt type. Their noses are also different. So they can be if Gosho himself forgot how Billy looked like but doesn't same according to me.)

What more interesting is this driver's way of tailing Conan and Masumi. They didn't sense a thing. If anything he is someone just like Muga.

Now the fun fact about this Wada Shinichi thing is that this could be the hint which guided Amuro and then Kuroda to Iori. Cause Kuroda did say to Iori that He knows that the latter had met Amuro. Iori was disguising, so Amuro possibly figured out the Wada Shinichi hint or simply he reported it to Kuroda and then Kuroda back calculated it. Wada Shinichi could be a codeword for NPA. Plus I do think Tsutomu if he is Kuroda then he is leading a joint operation with NPA and MI6. (Cause the way Amuro talks about MI6 being a pioneer in technology to praise Agasa, I think he came into direct contact with MI6 via Tsutomu Akai)

I think Iori is more likely to be Asaka. His habit of checking the parameter, an erstwhile mission when he was codenamed Sakakibara all points to huge screwups, Asaka did screw things up pretty bad and Rumi doesn't seem like Asaka. (More cause she loks like the uploader. The uploader hides a lot of stuff about the piece which if revealed will make Rumi a big suspect.)

The point you raised is very good. Vermouth knowing so much about Tsutomu means Tsutomu came in close contact with BO. Now there comes a good and interesting point Iori Muga could also be Tsutomu whose codename during infiltration was Sakakibara.

The change in the VA's would also mean that Tsutomu can talk in two voices. (A skill which nobody other than Vermouth and Kid have as of now.)

I think Tsutomu if he is Muga then he has a different job. (Iori knows about Amuro, his backstory and his current mission) his cover is a butler but the main job is to keep Ooka household safe from BO intrusion. Just like Kuroda's job is to get done with BO for once and for all. Both of these jobs aligns with Tsutomu's goal of getting BO before they can hurt his family. If this spy-driver is Tsutomu then also it makes sense as his job is now to protect Haneda family and collaborate with NPA.

What if Rum is someone close to Ooka Haneda household ? (Cause Rum if he really had killed Kohji would have no way to figure out that the piece is missing cause most likely Rumi stole it after Kohji was murdered by Rum. So Rum could have heard it from the Haneda-Ooka households during one of his visits.)

[blackmoon]

If I'm not wrong, then they are saying that someone was tailing Mary and Masumi during file 1096. That person is none other than the driver of the old man who appeared on 1090. They are also saying that the shadow man appears in file 1096.

Hmm yeah you're right! And you know what is interesting? At the end of file 1096 (going to put the rest in spoiler block in case someone doesn't want to kno)....

Spoiler:

The driver guy intentionally caused a fire alarm to evacuate all the hotel guests and when he return to the car with the old man he asked him: "You saw (them~ being Mary and Sera) right?" And the old man replied: "Yeah, just like a dream." Or something like that while staring at Mary and Sera...

So... the point is "intentionally" forcing Mary and Masumi being observed by the old man in the car... So... the question is why would the driver do that? And yeah good point who ever was the one who pointed out that the driver seemed rather skilled at not being noticed by Mary and Sera while tailing them. Isn't it almost as skillful as RUMI in avoiding Amuro?

Well i do hope that the B.O. isn't as simple as being fooled around by having multiple infiltrations by police, FBI, CIA, and maybe even MI6? Maybe when the fisherman is casting the net to catch the fish they are also being targetted as well?

[Anton-9]

So... the point is "intentionally" forcing Mary and Masumi being observed by the old man in the car... So... the question is why would the driver do that? And yeah good point who ever was the one who pointed out that the driver seemed rather skilled at not being noticed by Mary and Sera while tailing them. Isn't it almost as skillful as RUMI in avoiding Amuro?

Would beg to differ. Also he reminds me of Iori Muga even more. By the way he didn't touch the alarm rather used his pen (possibly premium quality) to press the alarm. Meaning he doesn't want to leave fingerprints.

A big hint towards some sort of spy and if not someone who is laying low.

[blackmoon]

So... the point is "intentionally" forcing Mary and Masumi being observed by the old man in the car... So... the question is why would the driver do that? And yeah good point who ever was the one who pointed out that the driver seemed rather skilled at not being noticed by Mary and Sera while tailing them. Isn't it almost as skillful as RUMI in avoiding Amuro?

Would beg to differ. Also he reminds me of Iori Muga even more. By the way he didn't touch the alarm rather used his pen (possibly premium quality) to press the alarm. Meaning he doesn't want to leave fingerprints.

A big hint towards some sort of spy and if not someone who is laying low.

Well, it's all good as we are free to think whichever direction we interpret it to be. But what I'm interested in knowing is what is your take on RUMI's background? Since you suspect her to be the uploader yet doesn't seem to think of her as the same as the driver who maybe some sort of a spy?

Reason I'm suspecting the driver is because there should be no motive for him or the old man in the car to force out everyone in the building just to confirm and check on Mary and Sera whether they were staying in the hotel if both of them were indeed "clean". I mean like in the beginning where Sera also tried to lure Conan by asking him to help open up a bottle which spilled liquid all over him would be what I would consider a harmless way to push something in a certain direction as opposed to the B.O. way of doing things by scaring people out of the hospital Kir was staying in? Just my take on it though.

And on a side note I think like in the movie the Darkest Nightmare Rum's role seem to be the sweeper who cleans away spies from other organizations infesting in the B.O. like when he made the actual debut in manga he was also cleaning away some FBI agents... could be his role in the organization, and so when he ordered Bourbon to do a check on Shinichi and in the snow mansion case when he mentioned about buying fish seemed to imply the task could be a "test" for Bourbon to confirm his real colors.

[Anton-9]

For Rumi I would say there are three layers to her personality.

A genuine caring motherly aura allowing her to be a good guardian to the children.
A very inquisitive aura of her when she displayed her APTX list, her suspicion on Kudo Shinichi after field trip, her way of solving cases and being knowledgeable about forensics.
But she is very defensive about the shogi piece, despite not being the murderer. Also the shogi piece extraction method, a better idea would have been pickpocketing, using Conan's needle gun to knock Amuro and extract the piece. But her method was direct and she panicked. She was wearing trousers with hole in the pockets, she keeps the piece close to herself when it's more advisable to keep the piece in a safe/locker in her apartment. All in all we see a very intelligent, strong, focused individual but who allows emotion and panic to direct her.

I would say she is some sort of a victim of BO (possibly an APTX-ed victim) and she is out there for her revenge on BO/Rum. She thinks Conan is her weapon to pierce through BO.
I think this because Rum showed interest in Shinichi's news during the field trip. Rum has no rhyme or reason to invest Amuro into the matter. All he needs to do is to tell Gin to take care of the mess.
But his involvement comes off as a personal stake in it. Vermouth wanted to kill Haibara to hide the effect of APTX from BO. (To save Conan and possibly hide a further investigation on Mary's whereabouts) So very likely Rum too in the past APTXed someone but for some reason couldn't confirm the kill, the body was never found.

Rumi is very likely that victim.

The old man and the driver comes off as shrewd individuals but not necessarily evil ones. If they were pure BO-esque evil, they would have knocked Mary and Masumi with a stungun when Masumi was busy talking to Mary after the incident and then raise the alarm and carry the unconscious Mary out under the garb of evacuation. Cause it pretty much confirmed that the driver already knew of Mary's case and he wanted the old man to witness it first hand.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Kuroda is not Haneda's dad. Haneda's dad won't be allowed to impersonate a NPA agent and inducted into anti BO mission just like that.
Iori has already confirmed that Kuroda is an old timer in NPA. So the chance is pretty low for Yasuharu Haneda who would be at least 20-22 years older than Kohji (if alive he would be around 45-46) years of age. So Kuroda doing what he does as a 67-68 year old man seems far fetched.
But I agree that he might be a cousin or younger brother of Kohji's mom.

I don't know why some assumed the old man is Kohji's father because he hates the police and his desire to see shrunken Mary , but they are not sufficient or convincing reasons to even suppose that especially this old man asked the driver Forcing them to go out . Sera and Mary's looks towards them indicate they are suspicious and unreliable men , Neither he nor the driver . Haneda family lives in Haido, not Kyoto but the old man's interest in the police car in file 1090 indicates that he was passing to check on About his grand daughter Momiji because he was financing the play on condition that Momiji appear in the play’s script . Kuroda on his last visit to Kyoto told the old man that Mary was shrinking , but she doesn't want anyone except Kuroda and the MI6 to see her so The old man had to make this strange move of forcing her to appear and see her himself because it is possible that he wish and dream to be younger like Mary or at least restore his health . I also think he hates the police because of Kohji's case but because he is Kohji's grandmother as i expect , not because he is Kohji's father . I mean the old man is the father of Kohj's mother



While Kuroda is Kohji's father because he has clear similarity in features between him and Kohji and still stuck in the crime of his son on the internet . Kuroda's age is close to Tsutomu's age because they have been friends for a long time,,, I mean when Vermouth appeared disguised as Tsutomu, he was not very very old like the old man so Kuroda's age is logical and close to Tsutomu's age, but based on hints , iam sure Kuroda's age is 60 or more , not 50 . Kuroda lives in the Haido next to mary's hotel and he goes to visit them and drinks tea . Haneda family has a relationship with Momiji family , this was confirmed by Kuroda in File 1088 . Finally that picture bellow is sure evidence for me that Tsutomu's friend is Kuroda who pays for hotel accommodations .

Spoiler:

[Anton-9]

Kuroda is not Haneda's dad. Haneda's dad won't be allowed to impersonate a NPA agent and inducted into anti BO mission just like that.
Iori has already confirmed that Kuroda is an old timer in NPA. So the chance is pretty low for Yasuharu Haneda who would be at least 20-22 years older than Kohji (if alive he would be around 45-46) years of age. So Kuroda doing what he does as a 67-68 year old man seems far fetched.
But I agree that he might be a cousin or younger brother of Kohji's mom.

I don't know why some assumed the old man is Kohji's father because he hates the police and his desire to see shrunken Mary , but they are not sufficient or convincing reasons to even suppose that especially this old man asked the driver Forcing them to go out . Sera and Mary's looks towards them indicate they are suspicious and unreliable men , Neither he nor the driver . Haneda family lives in Haido, not Kyoto but the old man's interest in the police car in file 1090 indicates that he was passing to check on About his grand daughter Momiji because he was financing the play on condition that Momiji appear in the play’s script . Kuroda on his last visit to Kyoto told the old man that Mary was shrinking , but she doesn't want anyone except Kuroda and the MI6 to see her so The old man had to make this strange move of forcing her to appear and see her himself because it is possible that he wish and dream to be younger like Mary or at least restore his health . I also think he hates the police because of Kohji's case but because he is Kohji's grandmother as i expect , not because he is Kohji's father . I mean the old man is the father of Kohj's mother



While Kuroda is Kohji's father because he has clear similarity in features between him and Kohji and still stuck in the crime of his son on the internet . Kuroda's age is close to Tsutomu's age because they have been friends for a long time,,, I mean when Vermouth appeared disguised as Tsutomu, he was not very very old like the old man so Kuroda's age is logical and close to Tsutomu's age, but based on hints , iam sure Kuroda's age is 60 or more , not 50 . Kuroda lives in the Haido next to mary's hotel and he goes to visit them and drinks tea . Haneda family has a relationship with Momiji family , this was confirmed by Kuroda in File 1088 . Finally that picture bellow is sure evidence for me that Tsutomu's friend is Kuroda who pays for hotel accommodations .

Spoiler:

Honestly by now I've stopped giving any attention to anime. They animate shit with everything jumbled up together.

But I like your take also. If Kuroda is the benefactor of Mary and the old man is Momiji's gramps then it does sound more likely.

As you've mentioned that we have seen that man going around in his car on the streets of Kyoto, while Kohji's dad is supposed to be stationed in Haido. So yes Kuroda might have informed the situation and the stay of Mary and Masumi to the gramps and he came out himself to verify it.

Kuroda as Kohji's dad is still a far cry. Cause Yasuharu needs to go undercover as Kuroda, which is possibly not a feasible solution to Kuroda's mystery.

[blackmoon]

For Rumi I would say there are three layers to her personality.

A genuine caring motherly aura allowing her to be a good guardian to the children.
A very inquisitive aura of her when she displayed her APTX list, her suspicion on Kudo Shinichi after field trip, her way of solving cases and being knowledgeable about forensics.
But she is very defensive about the shogi piece, despite not being the murderer. Also the shogi piece extraction method, a better idea would have been pickpocketing, using Conan's needle gun to knock Amuro and extract the piece. But her method was direct and she panicked. She was wearing trousers with hole in the pockets, she keeps the piece close to herself when it's more advisable to keep the piece in a safe/locker in her apartment. All in all we see a very intelligent, strong, focused individual but who allows emotion and panic to direct her.

I would say she is some sort of a victim of BO (possibly an APTX-ed victim) and she is out there for her revenge on BO/Rum. She thinks Conan is her weapon to pierce through BO.
I think this because Rum showed interest in Shinichi's news during the field trip. Rum has no rhyme or reason to invest Amuro into the matter. All he needs to do is to tell Gin to take care of the mess.
But his involvement comes off as a personal stake in it. Vermouth wanted to kill Haibara to hide the effect of APTX from BO. (To save Conan and possibly hide a further investigation on Mary's whereabouts) So very likely Rum too in the past APTXed someone but for some reason couldn't confirm the kill, the body was never found.

Rumi is very likely that victim.

The old man and the driver comes off as shrewd individuals but not necessarily evil ones. If they were pure BO-esque evil, they would have knocked Mary and Masumi with a stungun when Masumi was busy talking to Mary after the incident and then raise the alarm and carry the unconscious Mary out under the garb of evacuation. Cause it pretty much confirmed that the driver already knew of Mary's case and he wanted the old man to witness it first hand.

Well, that is an interesting analysis on Rumi's character there, and the most interesting part is describing her as "motherly." How then would you explain her other side of immediately throwing away the 4-leaf clover from Ayumi that was given to her (with some twisted facial expression while doing so), which was also observed by Conan behind her back?

Also, Rum doesn't seem that clueless about a certain missing shogi piece, which he also brought up and asked Conan in an earlier case, which happened after the field trip, which Conan denied and not showing any interest about it to prevent any further probing. I'm just thinking why Rum would also be interested in the missing shogi piece and probed Conan about it if it has no other value than being a memorial relic to Rumi?

Anyways, we'll see if there are any further developments on the driver and the old man and who exactly Mary invited over for tea and who exactly she didn't want to "trouble" by switching hotels again. Mary certainly has a helper and one of the 2 guests should be that helper while the other one could be a relative who also enjoys drinking tea the "English" way.

[Anton-9]

Well, that is an interesting analysis on Rumi's character there, and the most interesting part is describing her as "motherly." How then would you explain her other side of immediately throwing away the 4-leaf clover from Ayumi that was given to her (with some twisted facial expression while doing so), which was also observed by Conan behind her back?

A good question. I would say just when a mother fights with satan to save the soul of her child, there is nothing more frightening than such a mother. For the 4-leaf clover fiasco I think it's her haterd towards superstitions. The Kohji whom she adored was killed despite having such a relic. (the lucky shogi piece) I think she resents that superstition with all the hate she can muster as she deems that particular assertion regarding lucky objects as worthy of her psychological vitriol.

Also, Rum doesn't seem that clueless about a certain missing shogi piece, which he also brought up and asked Conan in an earlier case, which happened after the field trip, which Conan denied and not showing any interest about it to prevent any further probing. I'm just thinking why Rum would also be interested in the missing shogi piece and probed Conan about it if it has no other value than being a memorial relic to Rumi?

Rum should be worried by the missing piece altogether. Cause that would mean there is another person who was at the scene after Rum had left. But only Kohji's family and the cops would know of the missing piece then how come Rum knew of it ?
Is Rum close to NPA/Kohji's family/Ooka family in some way ?

Anyways, we'll see if there are any further developments on the driver and the old man and who exactly Mary invited over for tea and who exactly she didn't want to "trouble" by switching hotels again. Mary certainly has a helper and one of the 2 guests should be that helper while the other one could be a relative who also enjoys drinking tea the "English" way.

In other words whether Mary and Masumi drank tea twice or Kuroda along with either Kohji's dad or Iori had visited Mary and Masumi is the burning question.