Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[MeiTanteixX]

I'm caught back up with the Anime and Manga and wow, quite a lot of revelations and hints lately. Not sure what the most popular theories are right now, I think that Rumi is Asaka and that Kuroda is likely Tsutomu.

Glad to have you back
I agree on Kuroda's true identity.

[Reader]

...and that Kuroda is likely Tsutomu.

I agree on Kuroda's true identity.

How?
DCUA put it nicely why Kuroda can't be Tsutomu in one of his posts. I'll quote it here.

Rumi remembers Kōji bleeding from the mouth (File 1,032, Page 11), but Hyōe does not (File 987, Page 2). That implies Hyōe saw him first, which means Hyōe was at the scene of the crime, at the time of the crime.
If Kanenori, Hyōe and Rumi were all present at that hotel 17 years ago, then it seems that besides Asaka and Rum, there was another party involved—which makes a total of five parties involved... the victims, Amanda and Kōji; the culprit, Rum; Asaka, Amanda's bodyguard; and a 5th party.
Hyōe does not seem to be Tsutomu, because as far as we know, Tsutomu did not become involved in the case until Kōji's father requested him to investigate. It was only then the BO drove him underground. Yet Hyōe seems to have witnessed the case as it happened.

[Angra Shadow]

...and that Kuroda is likely Tsutomu.

I agree on Kuroda's true identity.

How?
DCUA put it nicely why Kuroda can't be Tsutomu in one of his posts. I'll quote it here.

Rumi remembers Kōji bleeding from the mouth (File 1,032, Page 11), but Hyōe does not (File 987, Page 2). That implies Hyōe saw him first, which means Hyōe was at the scene of the crime, at the time of the crime.
If Kanenori, Hyōe and Rumi were all present at that hotel 17 years ago, then it seems that besides Asaka and Rum, there was another party involved—which makes a total of five parties involved... the victims, Amanda and Kōji; the culprit, Rum; Asaka, Amanda's bodyguard; and a 5th party.
Hyōe does not seem to be Tsutomu, because as far as we know, Tsutomu did not become involved in the case until Kōji's father requested him to investigate. It was only then the BO drove him underground. Yet Hyōe seems to have witnessed the case as it happened.

Hmmm I just checked chapter 987 and I'd say it actually looks like it's after, rather than before, it looks like his blood has been wiped out rather than him not having bled yet.

As far as logic is concerned, I can't say I have a strong enough case yet although I don't think there is much that contradicts it, but the main reason why I think Kuroda = Tsutomu is because it very much matches Gosho's patterns so far, all RUM suspects are related to the incident from 17 years ago and we only know 3 people who were involved 17 years ago, RUM himself which we now know is Wakita, Asaka who is most likely Rumi, and that leaves the last person who is Tsutomu, a person who disappeared with no trace left, and that matches Kuroda, a person who's past before a certain unspecified point is unknown, remember he was in a coma for 10 years, not that he was in a coma until 10 years ago, or that he has been in a coma for the past 10 years, the only thing we know is the length of the coma he was in, not when it started/ended, so it could very easily have happened 17 years ago and he woke up 7 years ago, with clouded memories and looking like a completely different person. The way the story has been going so far, it's very clear that Akai's family is the biggest focus of this saga rather than RUM, so I think it just makes the most sense that Kuroda is Tsutomu.

[Reader]

About Kuroda being Tsutomu, I feel too that it would be good story wise if Gosho can explain the contradictions. As per the usual foreshadowing style, one of the hints pointed out in the forum which hints for a connection of Kuroda with the Akais is 1) the bags under the eyes, but this is not definitive enough so 2) the swiping/kicking motion to take down the culprit (Kuroda in file 989, page 15 and Akai in file 1016 page 10).

[HatiMMOS]

Read my previous posts before reading this one.

The "Rum is impatient and it is a trait that defines him", is wrong. You didn't you learn the lesson about how Aoyama fooled us with Rum's physical appearances.

He is impatient because he sent "Time is Money" to Bourbon ? It is normal send those messages to people whom you like to put pressure on and whom you suspect for being a rat, and pray for them to make a mistake, and most importantly, to let them know that they are being watched.

Because Amuro told Conan that he is impatient ? Rum sending the "Time is Money" and naming himself "Wakita Kanenori" is just incredibly not smart (Take notes guys, saying words like "stup*d" can be considered as harassement, don't use them anymore). This is how Rum actually works, he lets the NOC he is trying to investigate know that he is here to check his fidelity (by asking him to do errands like investigating Kudo shinichi ) and keeping him under surveillance and watching closely the guys that he hangs out with, if he makes any suspicious movements, like accepting tea parties offers, he is done. The same thing happened with Ethan Hondou, in the anime they added that the restaurant owner was talking with him after people left the restaurant iirc, and what made his cover blow up is a reckless ally, in this case, Kir. We can even go further and specullate that Rye knew he was under surveillence by Rum, but the reckless ally this time was, Camel. Rye knew that the old man from the warehouse is Rum, but he didn't expect him to be there at that meeting, and in the tea party, Amuro told them that he is also being investigated by Rum atm so he can't risk doing stuff, He doesn't want to do the same mistake Akai did, or atleast he is hesitating.
So, Rum is not impatient and Amuro tried to tell Conan that Rum is Wakita. Yusaku, Akai and Bourbon know that it is him, Conan will join them after a while,( because the reader already knows that) but they will all discover Rum's "real fake" name thanks to Heiji after a while, which will be the plot twist of this arc. And I guess Conan will get some drug developpement informations, if it is not from Haibara, then it will be from Wakasa.

I can go on and continue theorizing but I should leave something for the next rainy days. I personally don't like writing walls of text so I will end it here.
If I am missing something, let me know.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

DCUA put it nicely why Kuroda can't be Tsutomu in one of his posts. I'll quote it here.

Thanks.

Hmmm I just checked chapter 987 and I'd say it actually looks like it's after, rather than before, it looks like his blood has been wiped out rather than him not having bled yet.

As far as logic is concerned, I can't say I have a strong enough case yet although I don't think there is much that contradicts it, but the main reason why I think Kuroda = Tsutomu is because it very much matches Gosho's patterns so far, all RUM suspects are related to the incident from 17 years ago and we only know 3 people who were involved 17 years ago, RUM himself which we now know is Wakita, Asaka who is most likely Rumi, and that leaves the last person who is Tsutomu, a person who disappeared with no trace left, and that matches Kuroda, a person who's past before a certain unspecified point is unknown, remember he was in a coma for 10 years, not that he was in a coma until 10 years ago, or that he has been in a coma for the past 10 years, the only thing we know is the length of the coma he was in, not when it started/ended, so it could very easily have happened 17 years ago and he woke up 7 years ago, with clouded memories and looking like a completely different person. The way the story has been going so far, it's very clear that Akai's family is the biggest focus of this saga rather than RUM, so I think it just makes the most sense that Kuroda is Tsutomu.

It's possible the blood was wiped from Kōji's mouth... but that still leaves the issue of Tsutomu being there in spite of Mary's account that he did not get involved in the case until Kōji's father asked him to.

Rum sending the "Time is Money" and naming himself "Wakita Kanenori" is just incredibly not smart (Take notes guys, saying words like "stup*d" can be considered as harassement, don't use them anymore). This is how Rum works, he lets the NOC he is trying to investigate know that he is here to check his fidelity (by asking him to do errands like investigating Kudo shinichi ) and keeping him under surveillance and watching closely the guys that he hangs out with, if he makes any suspicious movements, like accepting tea parties offers, he is done. The same thing happened with Ethan Hondou, in the anime they added that the restaurant owner was talking with him after people left the restaurant iirc, and what made his cover blow up is a reckless ally, in this case, Kir. We can even go further and specullate that Rye knew he was under surveillence by Rum, but the reckless ally this time was, Camel. He knew that the old man from the warehouse is Rum, but he didn't expect him to be there at that meeting, and in the tea party, Amuro told them that he is also being investigated by Rum atm so he can't risk doing stuff, He doesn't want to do the same mistake Akai did.
So, Rum is not impatient and Amuro tried to tell Conan that Rum is Wakita. Yusaku, Akai and Bourbon knows that it is him, Conan will join them after a while,( because the reader already knows that) but they will all discover Rum's "real fake" name thanks to Heiji after a while.

So Rum purposely chose his pseudonym to be an anagram of a favorite phrase of his to try and bait Rei/Bourbon into attacking Rum directly so Rum can then eliminate him and his allies the instant he tries? Yeah, I agree that is Rum's plan, and it'll all lead to a big gambit pileup whenever Goshō decides it's time for him to write the big "Team Kudō/Akai/Bourbon Vs Rum/BO" confrontation case.

[HatiMMOS]

So Rum purposely chose his pseudonym to be an anagram of a favorite phrase of his to try and bait Rei/Bourbon into attacking Rum directly so Rum can then eliminate him and his allies the instant he tries? Yeah, I agree that is Rum's plan, and it'll all lead to a big gambit pileup whenever Goshō decides it's time for him to write the big "Team Kudō/Akai/Bourbon Vs Rum/BO" confrontation case.

I think that Rum did let Amuro know that he is watching him not because he is for waiting for him to strike back but to check his reactions and his entourage. He is actually waiting for the reckless ally to make a mistake. It worked two times so it might work this time. The reckless ally is most likely to be Kazami, but I want him to be Kuroda

[Angra Shadow]

It's possible the blood was wiped from Kōji's mouth... but that still leaves the issue of Tsutomu being there in spite of Mary's account that he did not get involved in the case until Kōji's father asked him to.

Well, couldn't he just be remembering a photo he saw afterwards? Feel like there could be numerous explanations for this, because it really doesn't make sense to me that Kuroda will be a random 5th party involved back then, that wouldn't match Gosho's writing patterns so far.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

It's possible the blood was wiped from Kōji's mouth... but that still leaves the issue of Tsutomu being there in spite of Mary's account that he did not get involved in the case until Kōji's father asked him to.

Well, couldn't he just be remembering a photo he saw afterwards?

But this isn't like the case with Jodie's photos (File 343/Episode 278)—there's no indicator that he's remembering a photo. And that's the key part... he's remembering it—why recall the time he (perhaps for the first time) saw the photo of the dead Kōji while looking at the Kōji case files, which I'd think would have that photo. That's why I think he's not recalling a photo, and thus he was there at the scene.

[Angra Shadow]

It's possible the blood was wiped from Kōji's mouth... but that still leaves the issue of Tsutomu being there in spite of Mary's account that he did not get involved in the case until Kōji's father asked him to.

Well, couldn't he just be remembering a photo he saw afterwards?

But this isn't like the case with Jodie's photos (File 343/Episode 278)—there's no indicator that he's remembering a photo. And that's the key part... he's remembering it—why recall the time he (perhaps for the first time) saw the photo of the dead Kōji while looking at the Kōji case files, which I'd think would have that photo. That's why I think he's not recalling a photo, and thus he was there at the scene.

Hmmm, then let me ask this, do we have a clear estimate of how much time has passed between the case happening and Tsutomu going there? Is it really impossible that Koji's corpse was preserved until then?

[Reader]

Is it really impossible that Koji's corpse was preserved until then?

Well, now you are stretching it just for the Tsutomu = Kuroda theory. Say the body is preserved, and that to in the exact same position and with the shogi attire on, for how long will they keep it that way? And why? Makes no sense.

[Angra Shadow]

Is it really impossible that Koji's corpse was preserved until then?

Well, now you are stretching it just for the Tsutomu = Kuroda theory. Say the body is preserved, and that to in the exact same position and with the shogi attire on, for how long will they keep it that way? And why? Makes no sense.

I will admit I am stretching a bit, but that's because I still think it makes no sense for Kuroda to just be a random person when it's been highlighted so much that he was in a coma and has memory issues. I would argue that this whole memory of Koji is an extremely minor point against it but I still want to address it nonetheless.

[Reader]

About Kohji case...
We have got the view of Kohji's open palm only three times so far. First in file 948, pg 8; in file 1033 pg 10; in file 1043 pg 8.
The bruise in the middle of the palm in file 948 indicated some object being held besides the scissors. And that object is assumed to be the shogi piece. But why is it that the bruise is not shown at all in the other pics? It is not even shown in the volume version (check Kor's post below). Confusing.
Quoting pics for reference.

Here's every dead Kouji visual we've gotten so far in chronological order (from volume versions)
https://i.imgur.com/at1WIc2.png

[Yondakai]

Got a question here
Let's admit that Tsutomu is in fact Kuroda.
Tsutomu was in MI6.
Kuroda is Rei's boss.
How would he makes the transition between MI6 and NPA ??
And one more question, at the begging of RUM's arc, Akai hands a gun to NPA agent, Asking for Rei to trace back the sale of the gun. In which purpose, is There anything to look for ?

[Angra Shadow]

Got a question here
Let's admit that Tsutomu is in fact Kuroda.
Tsutomu was in MI6.
Kuroda is Rei's boss.
How would he makes the transition between MI6 and NPA ??

Well we know he was in a coma for 10 years and when he woke up his memory wasn't clear, so I don't see the issue there, he would've established a completely new identity for himself.