Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008

[Spimer]

Well, about that...

Spoiler:

Regarding Mitsuhiko = BO Boss, Aoyama has denied it on the latest interview as well as Yusaku and Agasa and James Black.

[saorin]

Wow. Indeed the most memorable Revelation up to date. I do hope this is is gonna be a slow but steady Transition to the ending (not talking about "slow" in Terms of "super Long break", get better soon, Gosho). It would be very disappointing if the ending is gonna be rushed because Gosho fears he won't be able to complete the manga due to his health is detoriating. But getting to the end game would be beneficial for the manga in my opinion. It's also the Logical step that the BO's #2 should appear and be revealed near the end.

Spoiler:

Japanese people on twitter are hypothesising mitsuhiko = shrunken karasuma

I don't necessarily believe it to be Mitsuhiko, but I'm buying into the idea that Karasuma is disguised as someone Conan knows.

Spoiler:

I think almost every theory has been explored by now, and this one is just resurfacing (even though it might have been meant as a crack theory by most People before). Personally, I think we can be rather sure that all of the DB members are in fact good guys and None of them will turn out to be Anokata as Gosho is usually pretty true with depicting main characters. Of Course, it's not impossible just from that, though, but I would rate those chances rather slim. (Have we ever got Word of God that Noone of the DB is Anokata, I wonder? We got those for so many characters, but did we actually get it for them? xD)
Edit: Spimer's Reply got posted in the meantime, so question answered. Thanks!

Also, I agree with you:

Spoiler:

Renya Karasumais alive, got rejuvenated 50 years ago which is why he disappeared ("died") and is now living under some pseudonym.

For the sake of good Story telling, this would have to be someone we/Conan know/s. Otherwise the shock Moment just won't be there. So far, this Revelation is not actually all that "shocking" to anyone - as Gosho promised. But as it's coming from Yusaku and we can see that Gosho got genuinely emotional with this chapter, I'd assume

Spoiler:

"Carasuma" is not a red herring but - in some form - the real deal. It's just not the entire Story yet (or so I hope), as that would be underwhelming. And People have pointed out that it would be strange pacing to have Anokata be (fully) revealed before we get to know Rum's identity - and rightly so.
It would give Gosho some room to unravel the remaining mysteries at a reasonable pace if there's a "second layer" to Anokata.

As for Vermouth, e.g., I'm sticking with the theory that she is a) his wife b) his daughter c) his mother d) some other Kind of relative. I think we now got the Notion that

Spoiler:

the Org. is at least partly made up of the Carasuma Family, so I believe it would make sense for her to be part of that Family seeing as she's supposed to be oh-so-close to Anokata. (After all, we don't have that many loyal BO members left who would fit the description. xD) Personally, I would love the idea of Vermouth being ancient and the mother of Karasuma... Not sure if that would explain her leeway or if it would be too far-fetched to have the kid be the Boss of the mother. x_x

Edit: I do remember now that Vermouth being the boss' wife was denied by Gosho, right? It might have been a nice parallel to Sharon losing her husband, but Vermouth doesn't actually strike you as the type, so maybe the rebelling daughter fits better. xD

[Kor]

My god Yusaku.

Fixed it for you.

[Absenta]

Spoiler:

Could be Kanenori Wakita Tsutomu Akai, since Rum is trying to warn Bourbon about him¿?
That option or Wakita being another BO member that has a rivalry with Rum (pirate spirit is so weak), but my thoughts now are putting Wakita Kanenori as Papakai, so he is trying to make sure that Shinichi is safe or something¿?

[Oxynou]

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda. Since it happened in United States, maybe vermouth was behind all of this. In the files 954-957 (The Stage of Betrayal) ,she was the only bo member -excluding bourbon- to come to investigate the case. Also she knows the identity of the boss (I believe) ,but we don't know if rum knows it ,so it would totally justify the fact that during her mission to assassinate Kohji Haneda ,she told him the name of the boss.

Warning, superhuge spoiler about Rums identity:

Spoiler:

Someone in another forum just noticed that "time is money" is somehow an anagram
for Wakita Kanenori.
No Joke.
Well, I guess its game over then... wtf....

Spoiler:

Time is Money is "Toki wa kanenari" in Japanese

scramble the letters

Toki wa kanenari - > Kanenori Wakita

this is either a cryptic message to Bourbon, or a catch phrase used by the person in question

Spoiler:

I also founded this sentence suspicious because of the "Time is money" in English. I'm more with the catch phrase theory but I guess the only way to know that is to wait for a second message from him

[DCUniverseAficionado]

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda.

File 953, Page 16
Vodka: It looks like that guy is dead... the guy who said he had information about the Koji Haneda case... Gaito Hotta, I mean.
Gin: Hmph... that was a job which Rum had screwed up 17 years ago... It does not matter to me.

[saorin]

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda.

File 953, Page 16
Vodka: It looks like that guy is dead... the guy who said he had information about the Koji Haneda case... Gaito Hotta, I mean.
Gin: Hmph... that was a job which Rum had screwed up 17 years ago... It does not matter to me.

I was wondering why Gin Acts so indifferently to this if the screw up =

Spoiler:

"Carasuma" revealed

. Because this would actually be quite the big deal for the BO in General, wouldn't it?
Which makes me wonder...

Spoiler:

Was Carasuma actually the intended message? I'm on the Chikara-Bandwagon myself, since everything fits so well within that theory. But then, did Kohji actually want to spell both Carasuma AND Chikara Katsumata? We know by now that Carasuma is definitely not the complete answer as Kohji was also gripping the shogi Piece/chess Piece/scissors. Hm. This somehow lowers the chances of that theory being correct a bit, I guess.

[Oxynou]

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda.

File 953, Page 16
Vodka: It looks like that guy is dead... the guy who said he had information about the Koji Haneda case... Gaito Hotta, I mean.
Gin: Hmph... that was a job which Rum had screwed up 17 years ago... It does not matter to me.

Ah yes I forgot that scene ,then I still wonder how Kohji knew the boss name (if karasuma is the boss ofc) , maybe my previous scenario is still possible with rum instead of vermouth ; that would mean that Rum knows the boss identity.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda.

File 953, Page 16
Vodka: It looks like that guy is dead... the guy who said he had information about the Koji Haneda case... Gaito Hotta, I mean.
Gin: Hmph... that was a job which Rum had screwed up 17 years ago... It does not matter to me.

I was wondering why Gin Acts so indifferently to this if the screw up =

Spoiler:

"Carasuma" revealed

. Because this would actually be quite the big deal for the BO in General, wouldn't it?
Which makes me wonder...

Spoiler:

Was Carasuma actually the intended message? I'm on the Chikara-Bandwagon myself, since everything fits so well within that theory. But then, did Kohji actually want to spell both Carasuma AND Chikara Katsumata? We know by now that Carasuma is definitely not the complete answer as Kohji was also gripping the shogi Piece/chess Piece/scissors. Hm. This somehow lowers the chances of that theory being correct a bit, I guess.

Spoiler:

Gin didn't really give a crap about Vermouth and Bourbon potentially being blown up, either, during Mystery Train. It's kind of his thing, I guess—seeming not to give a crap, even about his fellow BO members. Question is, where is the exception to that rule? It's clearly not with Koji's murder—at least right now.

Chikara could still be Rum, but the chances of that being the case just dropped.

The shogi piece Rumi has is a promoted bishop—an "Uma." Taking CARASUMA + UMA into account—Chikara's name only has one U and one M in it.

It all really depends if Rum's surname is Karasuma, and Koji was trying to get him ID'd that way, through the dying message, or if Koji wasn't trying to refer to his killer, Rum, with his dying message.

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda.

File 953, Page 16
Vodka: It looks like that guy is dead... the guy who said he had information about the Koji Haneda case... Gaito Hotta, I mean.
Gin: Hmph... that was a job which Rum had screwed up 17 years ago... It does not matter to me.

Ah yes I forgot that scene ,then I still wonder how Kohji knew the boss name (if karasuma is the boss ofc) , maybe my previous scenario is still possible with rum instead of vermouth ; that would mean that Rum knows the boss identity.

Spoiler:

Again, we don't know who Koji was referring to with the dying message—Rum, or something else.

[saorin]

With the new interpretation of the dying message, it is possible that rum has nothing to do with the murder of Kohji Haneda.

File 953, Page 16
Vodka: It looks like that guy is dead... the guy who said he had information about the Koji Haneda case... Gaito Hotta, I mean.
Gin: Hmph... that was a job which Rum had screwed up 17 years ago... It does not matter to me.

I was wondering why Gin Acts so indifferently to this if the screw up =

Spoiler:

"Carasuma" revealed

. Because this would actually be quite the big deal for the BO in General, wouldn't it?
Which makes me wonder...

Spoiler:

Was Carasuma actually the intended message? I'm on the Chikara-Bandwagon myself, since everything fits so well within that theory. But then, did Kohji actually want to spell both Carasuma AND Chikara Katsumata? We know by now that Carasuma is definitely not the complete answer as Kohji was also gripping the shogi Piece/chess Piece/scissors. Hm. This somehow lowers the chances of that theory being correct a bit, I guess.

Spoiler:

Gin didn't really give a crap about Vermouth and Bourbon potentially being blown up, either, during Mystery Train. It's kind of his thing, I guess—seeming not to give a crap, even about his fellow BO members. Question is, where is the exception to that rule? It's clearly not with Koji's murder—at least right now.

Chikara could still be Rum, but the chances of that being the case just dropped.

The shogi piece Rumi has is a promoted bishop—an "Uma." Taking CARASUMA + UMA into account—Chikara's name only has one U and one M in it.

It all really depends if Rum's surname is Karasuma, and Koji was trying to get him ID'd that way, through the dying message, or if Koji wasn't trying to refer to his killer, Rum, with his dying message.

Spoiler:

You are correct, I did Forget that that theory required the piece to be a King or Rook or something other than the promoted Bishop, right? Thanks for the reminder! Then I guess chances have really dropped since it is pretty likely that the UMA Piece is indeed the Piece Rumi was Holding onto. And since it's only one lying there...the other item might very well be something different than a shogi piece. I am really bummed, that theory was amazing with how it incorporated the KATTA.

As for Gin, I was saying that because if Carasuma is the intended message, it actually Points towards the Boss themselves or the BO in General respectively, which... at least shouldn't make Gin totally indifferent to it in my view. But you are right, it is not necessarily contradictory with his behaviour.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Spoiler:

You are correct, I did Forget that that theory required the piece to be a King or Rook or something other than the promoted Bishop, right? Thanks for the reminder! Then I guess chances have really dropped since it is pretty likely that the UMA Piece is indeed the Piece Rumi was Holding onto. And since it's only one lying there...the other item might very well be something different than a shogi piece. I am really bummed, that theory was amazing with how it incorporated the KATTA.

As for Gin, I was saying that because if Carasuma is the intended message, it actually Points towards the Boss themselves or the BO in General respectively, which... at least shouldn't make Gin totally indifferent to it in my view. But you are right, it is not necessarily contradictory with his behaviour.

Spoiler:

It's increasingly likely that Chikara isn't Rum—but we still need more info about the case to be sure.

I am very eager to see Gin again, especially after this revelation—not to mention the rest of the BO members.

[Zerozaki4869]

Spoiler:

I think I've got the dying message. The Kun-reading or the name reading of Ryuma(promoted bishop) is Tatsu-ma. Now if you consider Haneda with his dying message, it clearly was the shogi piece in his palm hidden with scissors in a defensive grip. Now a scissor in that position does look like an ancient chinese dagger axe. Which has the kanji Ka. So the full message becomes, Ka-Tatsu-ma>>Katsumata. I now firmly believe the mirror was not the dying message. You can't cut a mirro which has it's backing intact. Also the presence of the word Juke, which literally means a fake movement in Soccer terminology was present just beside the mirror. I think the mirror was colatteral damage and Rumi in her attempt to divert the isse of real dying message opened the tap so that people/bo will think the mirror to be the real message and get screwed,
but the fake message out of nowhere revealed Carasuma accidentally and so BO now is up in flames.

[saorin]

Spoiler:

I think I've got the dying message. The Kun-reading or the name reading of Ryuma(promoted bishop) is Tatsu-ma. Now if you consider Haneda with his dying message, it clearly was the shogi piece in his palm hidden with scissors in a defensive grip. Now a scissor in that position does look like an ancient chinese dagger axe. Which has the kanji Ka. So the full message becomes, Ka-Tatsu-ma>>Katsumata. I now firmly believe the mirror was not the dying message. You can't cut a mirro which has it's backing intact. Also the presence of the word Juke, which literally means a fake movement in Soccer terminology was present just beside the mirror. I think the mirror was colatteral damage and Rumi in her attempt to divert the isse of real dying message opened the tap so that people/bo will think the mirror to be the real message and get screwed,
but the fake message out of nowhere revealed Carasuma accidentally and so BO now is up in flames.

Spoiler:

I Would really like This to be True. Even Though i questioned carasuma being the intended message above...that Kind of strikes me as too coincidental, even for conan standards.
Also Not Sure how You Stumbled upon the ancient Chinese dagger...?
And Why did Rumi (as Asaka I assume?) Want to hide the message... to now publish it online? Sorry If I am being dense here.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

Spoiler:

Mr. Nose

[PhantomWriter]

Spoiler:

I think I've got the dying message. The Kun-reading or the name reading of Ryuma(promoted bishop) is Tatsu-ma. Now if you consider Haneda with his dying message, it clearly was the shogi piece in his palm hidden with scissors in a defensive grip. Now a scissor in that position does look like an ancient chinese dagger axe. Which has the kanji Ka. So the full message becomes, Ka-Tatsu-ma>>Katsumata. I now firmly believe the mirror was not the dying message. You can't cut a mirro which has it's backing intact. Also the presence of the word Juke, which literally means a fake movement in Soccer terminology was present just beside the mirror. I think the mirror was colatteral damage and Rumi in her attempt to divert the isse of real dying message opened the tap so that people/bo will think the mirror to be the real message and get screwed,
but the fake message out of nowhere revealed Carasuma accidentally and so BO now is up in flames.

I will admit Juke is a fun play on words, assuming it's meaningful.

There are some things that are bugging me about the mirror and the scene with Kohji compared to the other scene. Namely the hand issue and the scissor issue, but it's more apropos for the main Rum thread than here.