Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
This cliffhanger seems to indicate that the Karasuma family is the family behind the BO—regardless of whether Renya is still alive or not, he may have been the one to start it. So while he may have been the original boss, whether he still is the boss is up for debate.
Remember, "Carasuma" is derived from Koji's dying message, so it likely means that the surname of his killer, Rum, is Karasuma.
Of course, there's the possibility that this is a misdirect—Yusaku refers to "Carasuma" as a theory, and says "if it's correct," and if there's one thing that Yusaku could be wrong about, it's this one—either way, I hope that it still is the trigger that leads to the big resolution (in other words, I hope this is beginning of the end). Because whether "Carasuma" is a misdirect or not, this has all kinds of potential to initiate the ending of DC.
I can't wait for the confrontation cases we're going to get. If this truly is the beginning of the end, that means the upcoming confrontation cases won't end in the status-quo preserving fashion—they have the potential to end in ways that even the Vermouth arc climax did. (Now whether they'll have the same impact as Dual Mysteries on a Full Moon Night or not is assuredly up for debate).
There are so many ways that Gosho can handle this... 1,009 and the next case can't come fast enough. We need a lot of questions answered and a lot of additional information and context provided.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
So this year will end with a cliffhanger. A consolation prize for a weak 1000th chapter...
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Spoiler:
This cliffhanger seems to indicate that the Karasuma family is the family behind the BO—regardless of whether Renya is still alive or not, he may have been the one to start it. So while he may have been the original boss, whether he still is the boss is up for debate.
Remember, "Carasuma" is derived from Koji's dying message, so it likely means that the surname of his killer, Rum, is Karasuma.
Of course, there's the possibility that this is a misdirect—Yusaku refers to "Carasuma" as a theory, and says "if it's correct," and if there's one thing that Yusaku could be wrong about, it's this one—either way, I hope that it still is the trigger that leads to the big resolution (in other words, I hope this is beginning of the end). Because whether "Carasuma" is a misdirect or not, this has all kinds of potential to initiate the ending of DC.
I can't wait for the confrontation cases we're going to get. If this truly is the beginning of the end, that means the upcoming confrontation cases won't end in the status-quo preserving fashion—they have the potential to end in ways that even the Vermouth arc climax did. (Now whether they'll have the same impact as Dual Mysteries on a Full Moon Night or not is assuredly up for debate).
There are so many ways that Gosho can handle this... 1,009 and the next case can't come fast enough. We need a lot of questions answered and a lot of additional information and context provided.
Spoiler:
If this is the truth, we all know why Anokata trusts Rum so much, because (s)he's either their child or another relative. But it makes me wonder what role plays Vermouth in this. Hopefully just this one time Conan will trust Haibara, and will show her that name, and Haibara will confirm that it is indeed the BO's name/title.
But didn't Gosho already state that Renya is not Anokata? Unless Renya really just founded it, and then died, and the current Anokata is his child (and Rum is his grandchild or another relative).
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
But didn't Gosho already state that Renya is not Anokata? Unless Renya really just founded it, and then died, and the current Anokata is his child (and Rum is his grandchild or another relative).
Spoiler:
Yep—as of right now, I think Renya used to be "that person," but died, and now another member of the Karasuma family is, and another Karasuma is Rum.
Again, unless this is the one case Yusaku is wrong and "Carasuma" is a misdirect. Whether it is or not, though, we're probably looking at the beginning of the end of DC.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
But didn't Gosho already state that Renya is not Anokata? Unless Renya really just founded it, and then died, and the current Anokata is his child (and Rum is his grandchild or another relative).
Spoiler:
Yep—as of right now, I think Renya used to be "that person," but died, and now another member of the Karasuma family is, and another Karasuma is Rum.
Again, unless this is the one case Yusaku is wrong and "Carasuma" is a misdirect. Whether it is or not, though, we're probably looking at the beginning of the end of DC.
Spoiler:
I doubt that Yusaku is wrong. Gosho did his very best trying to tell us that Yusaku is a master detective that can solve any case before anybody else can even think of it (and the beach case in which Yusaku found out the culprit just by looking at a picture was not long time ago), so this time he also is correct about this name. If Gosho wanted us to doubt that solution, he would use another character to suggest that name, a character that is also a very smart person but is not a walking and alive encyclopaedia (like Mitsu ).
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
Actually, I think Kohji´s dying message was relating BO´s name, not Rum´s. Although Rum was the killer the dying message might have been just KARASUMA. Makes more sense that Amanda told kohji about the true name of the BO (she is old and she might gave money to them for research). After all, the code name stuff is BO internal...So the reason that BO is so worried with this case isn´t because RUM screw something to revel his identity. They are worried about the dying message, which actually uncover BO´s name..
All the ASACA stuff is just a BO feint to make think that the killer was the bodyguard, maybe Asaca was an invented name just to fit it in the dying message. To know the BO´s name is much more important that knowing who is Rum, if this was the problem the boss could have killed him like Pisco so he is more comfortable to make think everyone that the dying message was pointing ASACA RUM.
Yusaku might checked the case and reach that conclusion.
Actually, I think Kohji´s dying message was relating BO´s name, not Rum´s. Although Rum was the killer the dying message might have been just KARASUMA. Makes more sense that Amanda told kohji about the true name of the BO (she is old and she might gave money to them for research). After all, the code name stuff is BO internal...So the reason that BO is so worried with this case isn´t because RUM screw something to revel his identity. They are worried about the dying message, which actually uncover BO´s name..
All the ASACA stuff is just a BO feint to make think that the killer was the bodyguard, maybe Asaca was an invented name just to fit it in the dying message. To know the BO´s name is much more important that knowing who is Rum, if this was the problem the boss could have killed him like Pisco so he is more comfortable to make think everyone that the dying message was pointing ASACA RUM.
Yusaku might checked the case and reach that conclusion.
Spoiler:
That makes sense but I see two pieces that don't fit. Karasuma is an international org, so even if someone could know the name, they (in the US) could hardly connect it to a family in Japan. In fact in Japan alone there are probably many Karasuma families that are not related to this particular one. Knowing the name could help, but in the US it as well could mean nothing.
Also I kinda doubt of why Amanda would tell Asaka or Kouji the name of the family. Kinda it doesn't makes sense. Kouji came to the US just to play some chess, no reason for him to know that name. And even if he knew it, his dying message could show it (instead of some random letters). And if it originally wss pointing out to the BO, the one that arranged the letters could as well collect them all and take with themselves leaving no dying message at all.
Also, maybe killing Rum was not an option because his dead body could tell more sbout the BO than it is telling his alive body.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
The first image I saw was the one with Yusaku saying just the 4 kanji of the name, but I'm good at reading hiragana, so I saw it inmediately. "WHAT THE ACTUAL F*CK!?" (Sorry for the language) was my reaction when I saw the name. I mean, seriously...WHAT.
Forgive my ramblings. Man, is this getting interesting now.
"Muga Iori, comes from Iori Sakakibara (榊原 伊織). The name "Shinichi Wada" (和田 進一) that he introduces himself with sounds identical to the first name of Shinichi Kudo, however, for Iori, it is written with the kanji for "progress" (進) instead of the one for "new" (新) used in Shinichi's name. Shinichi Wada was also the localized name of Dr. Watson in one of the first translated releases of A Study in Scarlet in Japan." --above quoted from wiki
Technically, Dr. Watson is second to Sherlock Holmes, right? If Holmes is the real Shinichi and vice versa, while Iori is the 'fake' Shinichi, then that could potentially hint that he is second to someone who likes Holmes, right?
Firstly, go back and put spoiler tags over your last two posts—if for no other reason than just to be safe.
Secondly, I'm increasingly inclined to think that this theory is actually correct. More information is still needed, though.
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on December 12th, 2017, 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
I think it's too much of a coincidence. I mean what it really shows is Muga and is inside Rumi's pocket. Nothing else. Why would Rumi point out to Muga that probably is not known by anybody (and since Muga is from Heiji's side, Rumi must be aware that chances that Conan has ever meet Muga are really slim, and therefore her hint might not be a readable hint at all).
Also, I don't think it's wise to connect Camasutra Carasuma to Muga. The message left on the murder scene is at least 15 years old, and chances that someone will connect a message from a very distant past with an unknown item from the present day are also very small. First of all, the person who would be interested in that message must first be aware about the U MASCARA, but since it's been so long ago, the person in question might not be even interested in what happened 15 years ago, might not be able to find the dying message, and might not guess who's Rumi and what's inside her pocket. Not to mention that a second in command would rather not worl as a some butler (unless Momiji is Karasuma and is the current Anokata).
Finally, even if Wakita is a BO member, the pirate spirit thing cannot be taken seriously. Rumi didn't know when and if Wakita will say that, and to who will say that. And even if Rumi somehow could control Wakita saying that (for example Wakita works for Rumi), it is very unlikely that Conan will connect some random words from some random chef with a some random message from 15 years ago and some random unknown item from some random and seemingly unrelated person's pocket.
So the theory itself is nice and all, but I really doubt it. Too much random factros are involved to take it seriously.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
After calming down I think we might be a bit overreacting.
Earlier or later there had a possibility to be brought up as the boss and Carasuma might simply happen to be the first one.
The hiatus might simply throw a way other light on the Carasuma-naming as if it was intended to do as it seems
that Gosho is going down and the recent development in the manga is due to his health condition.
There are still a lot shades of grey between being to sick to work and dying and therefore being forced to finish the manga.
What bothers me way is the "Now its do or die"-line from Yusaku that truly indicates that it might be going towards the end.
Anyways, I strongly agree with DCU as its waaay to early to be sure about him being the boss or the Carasuma-family to be involved
in the whole thing. It simply might be the biggest red herring-cliffhanger of the series so far.
I will wait for 1009s pacing and if it continues like this, I think we have the answer.
PS: Wakita being a bo-member is kinda confirmed since Gosho made it work to let him appear at Agasas house while Ai being absent.
I nearly would have missed that due to Carasuma. If that was your intention, well done Gosho.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
PS: Wakita being a bo-member is kinda confirmed since Gosho made it work to let him appear at Agasas house while Ai being absent.
I nearly would have missed that due to Carasuma. If that was your intention, well done Gosho.
Spoiler:
Correlation ≠ Causation
We still know so little about Kanenori.
At this point, I'm not sure if he's a BO member (not Rum), an associate of Rei/Toru, or Tsutomu Akai.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
No way Yuusaku would deliver wrong info. He's one of the characters who can never be wrong. I think there's a better chance that (1) Yuusaku is the boss himself and is misdirecting Conan on purpose, than (2)Yuusaku's theory being wrong. Forget the fact that it's only a theory of his, just the name Karasuma coming out of his mouth seals the deal for me.
I'm hoping for Gosho's sake that this was always the plan from the get go, that RUM is 3 people who are all part of the Karasuma family or something like that, and once you reveal RUM you'd reveal the name of the BO/story behind it. At least that sounds better than him having to rush to the end because he fears for his health
I also have no idea how he succeeded in diverting attention off of this off handed mention of a mysterious old rich guy who is symbolized by crows for like 17 years. Maybe it was the fact that people thought it was just too obvious to be true. Edit: found this from DCW: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/foru ... ent-121931 . It's literally the reason that Chekhov crossed him off of her list LMAO
Last edited by irishock on December 12th, 2017, 4:08 am, edited 8 times in total.
Also, the Gosho postcard thing. Ofc, "Karasuma Renya is not the boss of the BO... in the present. because the current boss is his relative/son/granddaughter whatever haha!!!" ULTIMATE TROLL
).
