Mafia 71: No More Akos (Town Wins)

[Jecka]

Heh heh
I was 150% more successful than I'd thought I'd be. >:3


Anyway @Too many roles: Its true though this way it's slightly harder to pinpoint who someone is. The BO is troublesome since one group could easily overpower the other. .-.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

shinichi'sapprentice (Bones)

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[Henry Gordan]

So here's some overall thoughts. I'm going to put it in a spoiler because it's a bit of a wall of text, but in summary:

-too many roles
-I think there's starting to be a little too many abilities per role
-So many Special investigates
-When's Ayumi's Grandma gonna get added in?

Not her but idiot inspector's grama would be cool.
Police chauffeur
Abilities:
Day: Chauffeur: can give a ride to someone, thus allowing the passenger to use night actions twice. (because the passenger needs to know about it)
Night: none
How about that
And I would like to be Detective Morse

[Akonyl]

shinichi'sapprentice (Bones)

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[Memesu]

Thanks for the game I was truly useless. Didn't catch ANYTHING.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

That was a fun one, even though sadly I could only read along and not contribute much. Also, just realised that since I came back a zombie that apparently means I really wanted to live. Where is that reference in the last confrontation XD.

[Akonyl]

Thanks for the game I was truly useless. Didn't catch ANYTHING.

well, you interviewed a bunch of people following people around, at least

[Kleene Onigiri]

I agree with Ako.
Too many roles, town has too many roles and there is also a disparity between town roles (ability wise) and even more between town and BO.
A lot of GMs also punp up the town/is biased towards town. I think a real good cleanup wasn't done in a long time. (I usually tried to do that to pump up BO/rebalance it. I think other GMs didn't had time to do that thoroughly either.)

I also noticed when talking with others about possibilities, that most think about old rules that were changed already. And everyone is like "huh? since when is it like that?". So even for veteran players/frequent players the rules got confusing it seems.

1) The BO accidentally hindered a Day 1 lynch late in the phase. Haibara was originally going to die in D1's lynch, until a D1 BO vote randomly tied it a few hours before phase change.
2) The BO randomly hit Jecka's heal target N2. I'm pretty sure this was random, at least, because Jecka was the most inactive player in the round and apparently wasn't part of the town alliance until later in the game. During N5 Jecka also managed to save someone, but by that time the BO was already done for, so it's not as big a deal as that initial N2 heal.
3) The Raiden Situation. While this was less random occurrence, it was also an edge case, and one that I think is valid and also funny (as someone who it didn't screw over, I know PT doesn't think it was funny ), and Totally Mafia. Basically, Raiden was Vermouth-Camel, Henry was Jodie, and Yurikochan was James. On N3, the BO killed Jodie, which forced the only results for James to get to be from Vermouth-Camel. On that same night, Raiden StakeOuted Kamite, and saw Nothing, while he claimed that Something had happened to Kamite, directly to Yuriko. Having gotten the Nothing results from Raiden, Yuriko knew this was a lie, and so Raiden was lynched. A lot of things had to happen in order for this mistake to come together, so I don't think there's anything really bad about this that needs to be rebalanced.

@1: That's just Mafia Could also happen to town XD
@2: I don't think that was totally random. I pretty much screwed the balance because I really did PM everyone in the game. But I didn't think I would survive this kind of playstyle for long. I did it mainly so people ally me and have fun XD I'd never thought I would form or start to form a big alliance with that :x
So, back to jecka, I think it was more likely for her to heal me, since I PMed her and she wanted to ally me (even tho later she was inactive? :x). Also, the BO targeting me was also not totally random I guess? I think they targeted me because I PMed so much? BO also knew I can observe, so targeting a possible police is would be a valid point too. (didn't talk with BOs about that yet, so maybe it was random after all?)
@3: It was actually me that got told by Raiden. I then told Yuriko and SA. Raidens lie also made me trust Kamite more :x
But that wouldn't have backfired on Raiden so much if Yuriko wouldn't have told me her role before. So I played risky and got healed and then Yuriko played risky and told her role to me. So we all were more risky this time and it didn't backfire because we didn't say it to a BO.

But is telling others your role really risky? I noticed a pattern the last games:
Town is either talk-active or isn't, but usually more talactive or "alliance seeking" active.
BO? BO is usually almost never trying to infiltrate any alliances anymore (besides some very few players). Not sure why it turned out like that, but "back in the old good days" there was more BO activity.

My guess on why it's like that:
- People have a certain play style, so they don't change it much (some are just not alliance seeking, which is fine)
- People don't know how to infiltrate the town. Because that would mean to get targeted by abilities and could end up getting lynched. Also pretending to be a certain role is way harder now.

Sniper: Being a sniper you could say you're FBI/Police. People want you to arrest then, so you say you're FBI. Which ends up getting you lynched because town could sacrifice the FBI easily (poor Jodie and Camel :x).
Vermouth: Well, she has a chance. But most people don't try to get out into town with that role either, because your disguise could get discovered. I saw a ton of not-active-town-infiltrating Vermouths. (Raiden did, he just had really bad luck. Because before the incident with the lie I didn't suspect him. He was neutral for me, so I didn't trust him much either I guess?)
Anokata: Similar to Vermouth. But a bit better I guess.
Irish: I think barely anyone thinks about infiltrating the town as Irish. Because you can only be Yukiko or Irish if someone finds out you have different abilities. So similar to snipers, people would lynch you even if they think you're yukiko.
Gin: has more options to pretend to be a role. Since there are tons of Investigators and he has ste.... wait wtf, Gin has steal?!
Pisco and Vodka: could pretend to be a trickster. But if found out to be male and you accidentally kill of Eisuke... bad luck :x so also risky.
Tequila: he can only do something with a fake ability from the black suitcase. Or pretend to be a day role?
Rye: could pretend to be something investigate like. At least if he get's lynched he get's his revenge Then again, I didn't see rye often in the game somehow? So dunno how people use him or try to infiltrate the town?
Bourbon/Kir: Similar to Gin and Rye, can try to infiltrate because of investigate.
Calvados: Also barely see him in rounds. Can also try various things with his Cover or backup. Downside is, if the one you Cover dies, you lose that ability to pretend to be someone. So can also be risky.
Sherry: Well, she can only go with BS or pretend to be day action I guess?
Akemi: Same as Gin/Rye/Bourbon/Kir with investigate. Also, people (whether town or BO) barely want to use steal anymore it seems.

So basically, Gin, Rye, Bourbon, Kir and Akemi have a possibility of infiltrating the town and be able to pretend to be a large number of roles. Problem is, those roles usually have crucial abilities that you don't want to lose. So I guess that's why people wouldn't be eager to infiltrate with those roles.
The other BO roles have it hard to pretend to be something, because they either can get caught easily (disguise will get uncovered or you get sacrificed for lynching even when town thinks you're a town role like FBI) or need to use the BS, but everyone wants the BS and usually prefer to use it for frame or bribe. So using the BS can be risky too, especially when the BO needs to use bribe.

So yeah, basically, trying to infiltrate the town as BO is always risky, even as roles that are supposed to do it :x

APTX:
It was briefly mentioned up there, but specifically in regards to APTX, the point of APTX is supposed to be that it gives townies reasons to distrust each other to the point that they don't just ally everybody willy-nilly telling people they can investigate/stake-out or whatever. I feel like this was probably a large factor in how fast the town allied 100% this round, because there's hardly any reason to be cagey about your role anymore or where you get info from or how you know someone's BO/innocent when there's probably at least 4 or 5 other roles that could fit the description. PT briefly mentioned in IRC that "BO needs more poison", but I don't really agree. Poison needs to be more effective than it currently is, but I think that's mainly just a symptom of how bloated the roles list has become.

I also don't think more APTX will help much. I think the bigger problem is that BO can't infiltrate town as good anymore.

When I look back at my PMing action, the only BO that swapped actions with me was blurf(Akemi). PT(Tequila) didn't (tho she was also busy), Meme(Kir) didn't, Conia(Anokata-Eisuke) didn't and Raiden (Vermouth-Camel) didn't. There as also not that much talking going on, besides Raiden and PT later on once she wasn't as busy.

Town that did action swap with me:
Stoppy, Kamite (kinda, said who he will target which was perfect for my SO :x), KaitoRizu, Dumy, Cinna (claimed night action).
Moony didn't have a role first. Abs. wanted to ally and lynch vote with me XD. With yuriko I allied information wise and then completely after I was attacked.

So basically, town was way more eager to share info, more talkactive and agree to swap actions than the BO. I do not blame the persons being BO this round. What I want to point out is, that the BO roles have a really hard time to ally town and people play according to it. (I do too now as a BO D: And I don't like that XD)


What do the others think? :V

[Stopwatch]

Will: Reminder that as Amuro is in Bourbon cannot be.

N1: Talked to Jecka and Link though not actually traded any info yet. Kleene knows I can investigate, well, I told her about half an hour before phase change so it's possible she doesn't know, but eh, thought I'd mention it in case I attracted the cop curse. Alas, Link, we've still not made it past N1 together ;__;.

D1: Link, we made it! o/\o Okay, so kinda vaguely susp of Kleene, but it's only circumstantial stuff nothing concrete. I think Henry is possibly Town? (based off him accidentally submitting non-prep actions in prep. I think if he was in a team they'd probably pick him up on that and I don't think Henry was lying about it at all) I don't think Kleene and Conia are likely to be teamed (not ruling it out, just find it unlikely). Talked some more to Jecka and SA, but again, nothing concrete. Yeah, I haven't got much, sorry.

N2: Seems Kleene has contacted quite a few people. Seems to be at least four at last count. Not sure what to make of it. Slightly more reassured on SA now. Rizu now knows I can inv but kinda reassured on her too? Checking if cinna killed Yuri. Kinda wary about potential N1 kill blames but hunting for the trick doesn't seem a great use of resources at this stage.

D2: cinna did not kill Yuri. Talked some more to people. Backtracking on SA to a null read because of him pushing certain stuff? Pretty sure Henry is Town based off #minimafia ramblings of his that come off legit. Working out all the probabilities for Kleene and it does seem most likely she's Town, though the lack of trick announcement this phase worries me (Yukiko/Irish seem unlikely as them using their trickster disguise N1 is just inadvisable). Also, she told me some interesting info, I guess. I've been warned there's probably going to be at least one vote on me tonight, but I haven't exactly got anyone to redirect the votes to. Random note because I just realised it may not be particularly clear in earlier parts of the will, but I have been claiming investigate rather than SI or observe. Summary: Leaning Town on Kleene and Henry. Need to push Rizu further, but for now, slight Town read. Jecka and SA null, but SA has been yoyoing between Town and not for me.

N3: Okay, so feeling better on SA and Rizu. Contacted some others but not heard much back yet. Passed onto to Rizu and Raiden that cinna didn't kill Yuri. Not told Rai any context but implied to Rizu an ally investigated it N1. Checking blurf for killing Yuri.

D3: blurf didn't kill Yuri. Okay so Kamite may have been lying when [CENSORED STUFF ABOUT LYNCHING KAMITE WHICH LATER GOT CLEARED UP HOPEFULLY] Apologies if this all backfires, it only fully "came to light" in the last couple of hours before phase change so. Kamite told me to vote Rai super last minute. Like, three minutes to go last minute .

N4: Kleene and Kamite now know I can SI, though I haven't backed down on my inv claim yet so :V. (EDIT: Just accidentally outed my role to both of them oops. At least they have my SIs now?)

List:
1. shinichi'sapprentice <- probably Town
2. Stopwatch <- me, hi
3. PhoenixTears
4. Abs. <- dead. Yukiko. Eisuke N1 or N2.
5. Yurikochan <- Vouched for
6. Kamite <- probably Town
7. blurfbreg
8. Jecka
9. Memesu
10. KaitoRizu <- think probably Town...?
11. dumytru <- Rizu vouched for him. Also, Rai voted him either D1 or D2 when it was random voting stage
12. Iwamoto Yuri <- dead. Tome.
13. Kleene Onigiri <- probably Town
14. cinnamoroll
16. MoonRaven <- Rai voted for her D1 or D2 during random voting stage
17. Conia
18. Raiden <- Dead. Vermouth-Camel

Potential BO pool highlighted. Thinking likely five BO in total in which case if everything else is correct then 4/6 of the target pool should be BO.

D4: Further speculations that can't really be verified, but going by Link's will we have a BO lineup of Anokata, Vermouth-Camel, (possible sniper), Tequila/Pisco/Calvados (because of Link being erased), and one other. Looking at the actions of these... I lean towards the remaining one and/or Anokata having investigation. Probably both, thinking about it. But this is just speculations using balancing so idk, could be way off. Anyway, been told to vote Conia today so doing that. I've been told the reason why and it seems to check out. Also, in terms of the Yuri kill, presuming it wasn't Rai and the previous BO pool is correct then the N1 kill can only have been done by Jecka, Meme, or Conia? Kinda late for that news probably, but thought I'd mention it. Also, apparently cinna is now likely Town. So that reduces the potential BO pool to five hopefully? I mean, presuming Anokata hasn't infiltrated.

Potential Borg: PT, blurf, Jecka, Meme, Conia.

N5: Okay so swapped roles with Yuriko, Rizu, and Kamite in total now. They should all be Town though. Jecka also should be Town. So, BO should be Meme, PT, and blurf? Talked to Moon and Jecka a bit but eh not much useful really . I really hope I'm not wrong on this BO list though :/. But if any of those are wrong it seems most likely Meme is Town...? Remember, Piscquilavados should be in (minus whichever one of them can trick because Anokata-Eisuke is enough :V).

D5: Here we go. Likely final BO: Meme, PT, blurf. Aiming to lynch Meme today and get PT arrested. Super paranoid about being wrong on blurf, but it should be right...? Also clears up the entire thing about Jecka voted blurf on either D1 or D2 because if they were both BO that'd've been kinda weird. Same with Rai voting Moon and dumy D1/D2. Good luck, Town! (Oh, also, I was attacked last night. Weird, huh?)

Night whatever: Acting as bait! Hoping final BO is blurf but we should know for sure by this phase?

^my will in a more easily read format if anyone was interested.

(not yet caught up here though oops but Kleene your steal ideas were cool)

EDIT (now I've caught up): Okay so I agree on chopping down roles atm, but I think that if we ever get large numbers of players again we may have to bring some back in. I think it's sorta that depending on the player to role ratio, detect and abduct vary wildly in how useful they are. So with the current number of players we need fewer roles.

I think Akemi would have been perfect for infiltrating. Even at the end when we were pretty sure it was blurf we didn't actually have any solid action evidence. It was only because we figured out Jecka and got the heal with SI that we solved it. But I guess maybe it does come down to playstyle. Honestly it kinda amuses me how Jecka basically almost accidentally is responsible for how the entire game went :V. Anokata-Eisuke would be difficult to infiltrate with though and Vermouth-Camel got messed up over because of how a tangle of things ended up colliding.

But then I think it's partly that for some reason Town got super lucky with how their actions were used. Because my being Amuro had the potential to really mess things up and I've no idea how it didn't end up screwing me over in the end. I think I mostly agree with Kleene's thoughts on Town and BO and allying/infiltrating though. And also wow PT figured a lot out skimming through the BO QT o.O.

[Raiden]

Thanks for GMing, Ako! ^_^
<3 to my Team. You were amazing, don't ever doubt that. <3
Love the phase stories, hopefully you'll be GMing again soon* so we get to know what happens with Renaldo.
* Of course, you should be joining as a player more often too!
And thanks to everyone else for playing. Well done! \o/


PS: PT may be chopping Notepad-kun away, but he found a place in my signature as remember for you all to get those wills out!

shinichi'sapprentice (Bones)

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XD

Spoiler:

[Kleene Onigiri]

List of Snowbuilding titles aka. the subject I PMed everyone with

Spoiler:

Dumytru: Do you wanna build a snowspy with me?
Yuriko: Do you want to build a snowprincess with me?
KaitoRizu: Do you wanna build a snowthief with me?
Kamite: Do you wanna build a snowdetective with me?
Raiden: Do you wanna build a snowtiger with me?
Cinnamonroll: Do you wanna build a snowroll with me?
PT: Do you wanna build a snowphoenix with me?
Blurf: Do you wanna build a snowsanta with me?
Stoppy: Do you wanna build a snowclock with me?
MoonRaven: Do you wanna build a snowtardis with me?
Abs.: Do you wanna build a snowbodybuilder with me?
Jecka: Do you wanna build a snowAMV with me?
Henry Gordan: Do you wanna build a snowempire with me?
Conia: Do you wanna build a snowbush with me?
Meme: Do you wanna build a snowREDdeadlyBUTTON with me?
SA: Do you wanna build a snowprisoner with me?
Yuri: Do you wanna build a snowdalek with me

Related replies to those:

Spoiler: PT

PT replied:
As long as you don't mind that I won't be around much for the first few days then sure. :V (Work and phase change time make things a little awkward.)

Also I'm not sure how well a snowphoenix would work, logistically.

Kleene:
Yaaay!

Yeah sure, that's fine

What? A snowphoenix is totally reasonable and practical XD

Spoiler: Yuriko

Yuriko:
As long as you're ok if I stay quieter since my role can possibly give me away, I'm looking forward to working with you!

But yes let's build a snow princess, just don't leave me out in the cold!

Kleene:
Yaaay!
Yeah that's all fine and ok ^^

And I would never D: *puts a coat on yuriko*

Spoiler: Kamite

Kleene:
Wanna establish an awesome fantastic incredible moldy and furious alliance with me? \o/

Kamite:
......
..
.


..


Hi.

Sure.

Spoiler: blurf

Blurf:
Of course!

I don't know how well molds handle snow though.

Kleene:
Yaay!

I raised a special kind of snow-resistant mold

If we still manage, do you wanna do something with actions?

Spoiler: Jecka

Jecka:
Pffffffffffffft that subject
Also sure

Spoiler: Meme with the Red button subject

Meme:
*Pushes the RED BUTTON*
Sure, but I have nothing

Kleene:
You rebel XD

Don't have any leads for this day either sadly

Spoiler: Henry Gordan with the Empire subject

Henry:
Well, why not
What will ur empire be called

Kleene:
I was thinking about some names already:

- The Kingdom of Mold
- Moldpalace
- Moldissippi
- New Mold
- Mold House
- The Empire strikes Mold
- An Empire for Mold

What do you think?
Also, wanna do anything with our actions?

Henry:
How about Moldy Python

Kleene:
Haha XD
Moldy Python sounds amazing

Henry:
So what do we do?
Do we invite more people

Kleene:
Yes yes!
I'm slowly building the empire \o/

Kleene:
Do you have any leads or suspects that can help the moldy empire? \o/

Henry:
Nope, Moldy Python has nothing

Spoiler: conia

Kleene:
Wanna establish an awesome fantastic incredible moldy and furious alliance with me? \o/

Conia
Moldy and furious, exactly how I like my breakfast eggs

Um, I *want* to ally, but revealing anything relevant about myself is a step closer to suicide Mayhaps you have a way to prove a townie?

Kleene:
Sounds delicious XD

Yeah understandable!
Hmmm.... I can in a way prove someone, but like, not 100% with my ability. But yeah, I can actively check something in a way

---after some PMs---
Conia
I don't have evidence to back that up, just a feeling, so I guess it can change anytime
I'm curious about that snowbush, it doesn't sound practical to me.

Kleene:
A snowbush is totally practical! Imagine you want to chill your drink. You just pluck off some ice-leaves and put it in your drink! Amazing, right?! XD

Spoiler: Raiden

Kleene:
Wanna establish an awesome fantastic incredible moldy and furious alliance with me? \o/

Raiden:
That sounds amazing, how can I refuse? All in! \o/




Kleene:
XD
I accept your bribery.

Wanna do anything with our actions?

Raiden:
Actions?

Well, I though we could start with the foundation of the body. Roll 3 even balls and line them up next to each other, then pile fresh snow on top and pat them down to shape the curves...

Kleene:
Like that?


Mafia actions XD


Raiden:
Am I the only one who finds the yellow snow questionable? V:

Ah, I see, well, I dislike given away actions at start of game when I don't know who to trust. For same reason I don't ask of anyones actions either to avoid hypocrisy.

Spoiler: Abs.

Abs.:
Snowbodybuilder! \o/

Are you Gin though? :x

[Akonyl]

@3: It was actually me that got told by Raiden. I then told Yuriko and SA.

I can't believe yuriko lied to me D:

[KaitoRizu]

In regards to Kleene's PM subjects... since she didn't include mine and I want to show it XD there it is:

Wanna establish an awesome fantastic incredible moldy and furious alliance with me? \o/

Snow thief? Are you Kid? XD kidding... yeah sure why not that's what we agreed to do last time.

It's because snow is white and Kid is a thief dressed in white

[blurfbreg]

And also wow PT figured a lot out skimming through the BO QT o.O.

She's my vote for BO MVP. Couldn't have figured out half the stuff (or sowed enough seeds of doubt ) without her.

[Kleene Onigiri]

@KaitoRizu: Oops, sorry, missed your PM in my PM-inbox-spam XD