What went wrong in the Bourbon arc?

[Valentin]

As preparation, I rewatched all episodes related to Bourbon and was surprised how little actually happened. Unlike many earlier episodes including those about Vermouth, I’d never watched the Bourbon arc as a whole, and probably due to the slowpacedness, I saw no clear structure of it.

So what can I say about it after finally seeing the whole picture? For starters, I agree about the obvious points: Yes, the arc is far too long and certainly doesn’t justify seven years of waiting and experiencing one quasi-confrontation after another; in fact, those A-is-observing-B-which-B-doesn’t-notice-and-even-if-B-does-A-disappears-before-B-can-discover-A-which-makes-A-grin-triumphantly became more and more annoying and felt like an attempt to artificially extend the plot as well as make it look more complicated than it is. I still remember how frustrated I was back then as I expected the chapters around 700 and 800 to be as thrilling as the ones with Kir around 500 and the ones with Akai’s faked death around 600, and even today, they only seem adequate as interludes around chapters 650 and 750.

Another obvious point would be the introduction of Sera. Why was she added to the series? Because many fans wanted someone like her. That’s perfectly acceptable, but why had Aoyama to do it in the middle of the Bourbon arc? I highly doubt that there was such an enormous pressure to create her character as fast as possible and—even less so—make Sera a part of the plot. I don’t know if another rival for Heiji and Shinichi would have been welcomed by the readers; as far as I am concerned, I might have liked the idea of establishing a female equivalent to Heiji and Shinichi appearing from time to time in bigger cases and having the potential of shaking things up between Heiji and Kazuha or Shinichi and Ran, though I sense that Aoyama prefers his love stories to be as simple and as linear as possible.

Whatever, rather than discussing optional scenarios, I’d like to mention what I came to my mind while watching all those episodes in a row for the first time. Surely it’s no groundbreaking suggestion, but in terms of structuring those seven years, I’d suggest to (roughly) divide them into two parts of the Bourbon arc and the first part of a separate Akai family arc. Hopefully I’m not simplifying too much, but when I see Sera being there after that long break, I get the impression that Aoyama only inserted her to parallelize the Bourbon arc and her independent family arc, again only to make it seem more complicated to average readers. While I agree that Aoyama rearranged bits and pieces of the plot due to her insertion, I doubt that those adjustments go far beyond her appearance in the incidents, albeit she obviously has some kind of relation to Bourbon. To cut a long story short, I see those seven years as being split into the first part of Bourbon arc from 2008 and 2010 as well as the second part of the Bourbon arc and the first part of the Akai family arc from 2012 to 2015 as two elements that are not really effectively connected. Accordingly, we would now be in the second part of the Akai family arc as well as in the first (and probably not last) part of the Rum arc. As I said, this is not exactly new; but I can’t remember encountering such a dinstinct classification with two different and effectively mostly unrelated story arcs so far. Depending on how the connection between Bourbon and Sera turns out to be, my pattern may very well be proven to be a result of artificial construction and exaggerated simplification. At the very least, this is—now that my impressions are relatively fresh—a way that allows me to feel a certain satisfaction concerning the mystery of those seven long years, and—looking ahead—is presumably the reason why I’m quite relaxed about Sera’s part: Looking at it this way, I don’t mind Sera collecting questions about herself and her family and am confident that all the mysteries about Sera, the middle brother and their little blondie will be solved by File 1000 with the Rum arc perhaps following around hundred chapters later—given that Aoyama maintains this pattern, that is. Well, if he taught us anything in the course of the last few years, it’s that he doesn’t fear telling his stories in obviously mechanical and programmatical ways.

No matter how I look at it, I’m afraid that the Bourbon arc will be remembered as one of the weakest arcs of the Conan plot not only due to its length, and I can’t help but perceive the whole happening as a big filler in relation to the other arcs: It seemed more about retaining the status quo of keeping Akai being alive a secret than making progress, which the Rum arc is hopefully and probably going to do; having another spy feels more like Aoyama’s wish to make sure that all possible guests of a detective party come to the event so that he can continue the series without moving anything relevant forward as well as have a grand international finale. As long as the cases remain interesting and the work doesn’t survive its creator, I have no problem with it, but I sincerely hope that we won’t see another arc full of disguises, since the the Bourbon arc left me somewhat irritated about its nature: While it may have been a well-conceived piece of fiction in itself, sending whoever to the battle being equipped with a disguise excellently made by Yukiko, a voice changer made by Agasa and being controlled by the ridiculously bright Conan to retain the status quo had next to no overall impact on Conan’s position and doesn’t really seem like the point of those clashes between red and black to me, regardless of how long Aoyama wants his magnum opus to go on. At any rate, he certainly should refrain from further disguises, which appear more and more like a cheap excuse for running out of ideas the more I think about it and which would have been great if they had been used once in the Vermouth arc as well as one little ingredient in the final battle as a little best-of.

To summarize, the Bourbon arc 1) was far too long, 2) had too many repetitive elements, especially disguises from the Vermouth arc, and 3) should have done more than 3.1 retaining the status quo and 3.2 introducing another spy as a partner in the destruction of the organization.

The Bourbon arc feels like an interlude in the true sense of the word: like something between two more important elements. Now’s the time for Aoyama to return to serious business again and have Conan be directly affected by a real thread. Rum as the number two should be the optimal instrument to lower the level of complexity without becoming plain; I got tired of the whole masquerade circus fairly quickly. Nonetheless, I’m strongly convinced that there would have been a different and better way to continue the story, even with Akai actually being dead and, most importantly, without disguises, and I’m optimistic that we won’t need a “What went wrong with the Rum arc?” thread.

[k11chi]

If Aoyama confirmed that she has nothing to do with the BO then her main purpose is to introduce different types of cases and solutions to them based on her personality (fruit case, red woman etc.). As of now her plot point could be related to the next time Shinichi appears in current timeline and puts some 'oomph' to Rans character (What else could it be, Ran and Conan meeting her when they were kids is most likely not going to have anything to do with the Org in the slightest).

So basically dont put too much effort into trying to "move on" from the Masumi stuff because that's just a new sub story arc like the love stories for now. Based on her role during cases, I doubt she's going anywhere.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Welcome to DCTP!

The arc is far too long and certainly doesn’t justify seven years of waiting and experiencing one quasi-confrontation after another; in fact, those A-is-observing-B-which-B-doesn’t-notice-and-even-if-B-does-A-disappears-before-B-can-discover-A-which-makes-A-grin-triumphantly became more and more annoying and felt like an attempt to artificially extend the plot as well as make it look more complicated than it is.

I can certainly agree with that.

Another obvious point would be the introduction of Sera. Why was she added to the series? Because many fans wanted someone like her. That’s perfectly acceptable, but why had Aoyama to do it in the middle of the Bourbon arc? I highly doubt that there was such an enormous pressure to create her character as fast as possible and—even less so—make Sera a part of the plot.

Rei/Tooru knows Masumi—that may be the only thing connecting them appearing around the same time, as you later point out.

Spoiler:

Hopefully, we'll get an idea of how he knows and what she remembers by the end of the current case. It may very well connect to the rest of her family.

If that wasn't the case, then Masumi might as well not have been introduced until after Scarlet Showdown.

I sense that Aoyama prefers his love stories to be as simple and as linear as possible.

Indeed—Gosho said so, himself, in an interview.

I’d suggest to (roughly) divide them into two parts of the Bourbon arc and the first part of a separate Akai family arc.

When I see Sera being there after that long break, I get the impression that Aoyama only inserted her to parallelize the Bourbon arc and her independent family arc, again only to make it seem more complicated to average readers.

To cut a long story short, I see those seven years as being split into the first part of Bourbon arc from 2008 and 2010 as well as the second part of the Bourbon arc and the first part of the Akai family arc from 2012 to 2015 as two elements that are not really effectively connected. Accordingly, we would now be in the second part of the Akai family arc as well as in the first (and probably not last) part of the Rum arc.

At the very least, this is—now that my impressions are relatively fresh—a way that allows me to feel a certain satisfaction concerning the mystery of those seven long years, and—looking ahead—is presumably the reason why I’m quite relaxed about Sera’s part: Looking at it this way, I don’t mind Sera collecting questions about herself and her family and am confident that all the mysteries about Sera, the middle brother and their little blondie will be solved by File 1000 with the Rum arc perhaps following around hundred chapters later—given that Aoyama maintains this pattern, that is.

Well, if he taught us anything in the course of the last few years, it’s that he doesn’t fear telling his stories in obviously mechanical and programmatical ways.

I guess you could call it the "Rye arc" to keep with the idea of the arcs being named after BO members, former or otherwise.

No disagreement there.

I have the Bourbon arc split into four acts (I: 622–704/509–581; II: 705–767/583–645; III: 768–824/646–704; IV: 825–897/705–783). The first two acts of the "Rye arc," then, would be the third and fourth acts of the Bourbon arc, with the third act of the "Rye arc" being 898–present/785–present (this would also be the first act of the Rum arc).

The Bourbon arc was 276 Files (622–897) and the Vermouth arc was 197 Files (238–434). Right now, the "Rye arc" stands at 169 Files (768–present). That leaves the files remaining in this "arc" at 28–107 (with the resolution coming at either File 964 or File 1043), so your estimate is right in the middle of that—it could very well prove to be correct. The Bourbon arc—I'd say—is a good maximum for how long we should expect things to last. The resolution may very well be at—or maybe just a little bit after—the Shinichi/Ran/Masumi flashback.

Indeed—whatever his reasons for doing so, the Bourbon arc was an arc he wanted to do. He carried it out to the end.

No matter how I look at it, I’m afraid that the Bourbon arc will be remembered as one of the weakest arcs of the Conan plot not only due to its length, and I can’t help but perceive the whole happening as a big filler in relation to the other arcs.

It seemed more about retaining the status quo of keeping Akai being alive a secret than making progress, which the Rum arc is hopefully and probably going to do; having another spy feels more like Aoyama’s wish to make sure that all possible guests of a detective party come to the event so that he can continue the series without moving anything relevant forward as well as have a grand international finale.

As long as the cases remain interesting and the work doesn’t survive its creator, I have no problem with it, but I sincerely hope that we won’t see another arc full of disguises, since the the Bourbon arc left me somewhat irritated about its nature: While it may have been a well-conceived piece of fiction in itself, sending whoever to the battle being equipped with a disguise excellently made by Yukiko, a voice changer made by Agasa and being controlled by the ridiculously bright Conan to retain the status quo had next to no overall impact on Conan’s position and doesn’t really seem like the point of those clashes between red and black to me, regardless of how long Aoyama wants his magnum opus to go on. At any rate, he certainly should refrain from further disguises, which appear more and more like a cheap excuse for running out of ideas the more I think about it and which would have been great if they had been used once in the Vermouth arc as well as one little ingredient in the final battle as a little best-of.

It probably will be, at least for now—in the present, it seems to be just filler. For what it is, though, I like it, and if the characters that first appeared in it, as well as unanswered questions/issues brought about in it, play a significant role in the series' finale, people will at least say it had an affect on the ending, and in that way, it had purpose. It, of course, could've been done better.

These two statements of yours are quite accurate, I think—it resolved only a few things (some of which were quite self-contained in the arc, itself—they only affected the Bourbon arc), while adding many other things that still remain unresolved. It seems like a pit-stop, in many respects, before the final lap—or, at least, the second to last one.

Since the Kir arc, or at least some point before, Gosho figured out how he wanted to end it—he may have changed how we get there and how long we have to wait, but I don't think he's changed how it's going to end. If things get bad for him, health-wise, I don't think he'll leave us in suspense, forever. He's 52, now—I doubt he's going to do this for another 40 years. At the absolute maximum, I say 20 years. More likely, it'll be 5–10.

It's been awhile since Shinichi/Conan went on the offensive—700–704/578–581 and 818–824/701–704 were the last BO cases, since 894–897/781–783 was more Shinichi/Conan, Shuichi and the FBI Vs. Rei/Tooru and the PSB/PSIA, and while Mystery Train did make the BO, except Vermouth, think Shiho/Ai had died, neither Shinichi/Conan nor the BO lost any ground, really, in either case. Clash of Red and Black (485–490, 595–609/491–504) and Black Impact (499–504/425) featured no disguises, at all—they took place in situations where either side could experience gains or losses. Maybe its just that neither side has made gains for a while—I don't mind disguises, and would like to see one in the final confrontation, as well—still, the repetition and ease of disguises (though for Shinichi/Conan, it is limited by how well Yukio knows a person) has made things less interesting for many.

The Bourbon arc feels like an interlude in the true sense of the word: like something between two more important elements.

Now’s the time for Aoyama to return to serious business again and have Conan be directly affected by a real thread. Rum as the number two should be the optimal instrument to lower the level of complexity without becoming plain; I got tired of the whole masquerade circus fairly quickly.

Nonetheless, I’m strongly convinced that there would have been a different and better way to continue the story, even with Akai actually being dead and, most importantly, without disguises, and I’m optimistic that we won’t need a “What went wrong with the Rum arc?” thread.

Since Kir only made an appearance in 701–704/579–581—one appearance in the whole Bourbon arc, and, like the confrontation, itself, could've simply never happened, at all, and things would be the same—it seemed that Gosho was waiting to resume from where we left off with her. I think there's a good chance she may die while getting vital information to Shinichi/Conan and the others. Talk about an interlude.

Having the current arc being about the second-ranked member certainly sets the stage for something big. What better way to use File 1000 than to have a major development in the arc?

Indeed—one way would've been cut some cases and rearrange some... for example (I even have the dates, and volumes, in there ; you could cut even more, if certain cases I left you'd rather cut, instead—you could, say, cut 17 more cases from this list):

180 — Red, White, and Yellow Case/Red, White, Yellow, and the Detective Boys and Conan Vs. Double Code Mystery (Volume 60, Files 622–624) (Released Monday, September 10th (622)/17th (623)/24th, 2007 (624))
181 — Kaitou Kid and the Purple Nail/Kaitou Kid's Teleportation Magic (Volume 60, Files 625–628) (Released Monday, October 8th (625)/15th (626)/22nd (627)/29th, 2007 (628))
182 — Paper Airplane Case/Conan Vs. Double Code Mystery and Deduction Showdown – Shinichi vs. Subaru Okiya (Volume 60, Files 629–630 and Volume 61, File 631) (Released Monday, November 5th (629)/12th (630)/26th, 2007 (631))
183 — Murderer Shinichi Kudo Case/Murderer, Shinichi Kudo and Shinichi's True Face and Ran's Tears (Volume 61, Files 632–637) (Released Monday, December 3rd (632)/10th (633)/24th, 2007 (634)/January 7th (635)/14th (636)/21st, 2008 (637))
184 — Highway Murder Case/Shinichi's True Face and Ran's Tears and What She Truly Wants to Ask (Volume 61, Files 638–640) (Released Monday, January 28th (638)/February 4th (639)/11th, 2008 (640))
185 — Ikkaku Rock Case/Ikkaku Rock's Disappearing Fish (Volume 61, File 641 and Volume 62, Files 642–643) (Released Monday, February 25th (641)/March 3rd (642)/10th, 2008 (643))
186 — Bank Heist Case/Detective Boys Vs. Robber Group (Volume 62, Files 644–646) (Released Monday, March 17th (644)/24th (645)/April 7th, 2008 (646))
187 — Dangerous Couple Case/A Dangerous Party of Two (Volume 62, Files 647–649) (Released Monday, April 14th (647)/21st (648)/May 5th, 2008 (649))
188 — Red Wall Case/The Mansion of Death and the Red Wall (Volume 62, Files 650–652) (Released Monday, May 12th (650)/19th (651)/June 2nd, 2008 (652))
189 — Haunted Warehouse Case/Battle of the Haunted Warehouse's Treasure (Volume 63, Files 653–655) (Released Monday, June 9th (653)/16th (654)/23rd, 2008 (655))
190 — Kazuha's Charm Case/The Whereabouts of the Embarrassing Charm (Volume 63, Files 656–658) (Released Monday, June 30th (656)/July 7th (657)/14th, 2008 (658))
191 — Tomorrow is There/The Crisis Beckoned by the Red Omen (Volume 63, File 659) (Released Monday, July 21st, 2008)
192 — Department Store Bomber Case/The Crisis Beckoned by the Red Omen, The Suggestion of Black Thirteen, The Black Time Limit Drawing Near and The Red Shaking Target (Volume 63, Files 660–663 and Volume 64, File 664) (Released Monday, July 28th (660)/August 11th (661)/25th (662)/September 1st (663)/8th, 2008 (664))
193 — Ryoma's Gunbelt Case/Conan & Kid's Battle For Ryoma's Treasure (Volume 64, Files 665–667) (Released Monday, September 15th (665)/22nd (666)/October 6th, 2008 (667))
194 — Demon Dog Murder Case/The Victim is Shinichi Kudo and Inubushi Castle – The Ablazed Demon Dog (Volume 64, Files 668–674) (Released Monday, October 13th (668)/20th (669)/27th (670)/November 3rd (671)/10th (672)/17th (673)/December 1st, 2008 (674))
195 — Following Holmes/Holmes’ Revelation (Volume 65, Files 675–684) (Released Monday, December 8th (675)/22nd, 2008/January 5th (677)/12th (678)/19th (679)/26th (680)/February 2nd (681)/23rd (682)/March 2nd (683)/9th, 2009 (684))
196 — Ramen So Good/Ramen So Good, It's to Die For (Volume 65, File 685 and Volume 66, Files 686–687) (Released Monday, March 16th (685)/23rd (686)/30th, 2009 (687))
197 — Jeet Kune Do/Deduction Showdown at the Haunted Hotel (Volume 66, Files 688–690) (Released Monday, April 6th (688)/27th (689)/May 4th, 2009 (690))
198 — Bomber's Request/The Case of the Besieged Detective Agency (Volume 66, Files 691–694) (Released Monday, May 11th (691)/18th (692)/25th (693)/June 1st, 2009 (694))
199 — Target on Tape/The Doc's Video Site (Volume 66, Files 695–696 and Volume 67, File 697) (Released Monday, June 8th (695)/15th (696)/22nd, 2009 (697))
200 — East Vs. West/Conan Vs. Heiji – Deduction Battle Between the Detectives of the East and West (Volume 67, Files 698–700) (Released Monday, June 29th (698)/July 6th (699)/20th, 2009 (700))
201 — Eye for an Eye/The Design of Poison and Mirage (Volume 67, Files 701–706) (Released Monday, July 27th (701)/August 3rd (702)/10th (703)/24th (704)/31st (705)/September 7th, 2009 (706))
202 — Private Eye/Wedding Eve (Volume 67, File 707 and Volume 68, Files 708–709) (Released Monday, September 14th (707)/28th (708)/October 12th, 2009 (709))
203 — Online Client/Detectives’ Nocturne (Volume 68, Files 710–714) (Released Monday, October 19th (710)/26th (711)/November 2nd (712)/9th (713)/16th, 2009 (714))
204 — Domestic Violence/Won't Forgive Even One Millimeter (Volume 68, Files 715–717) (Released Monday, November 23rd (715)/30th (716)/December 7th, 2009 (717))
205 — Overnight Deadline/The Life-Threatening Broadcast of Love (Volume 68, File 718 and Volume 69, Files 719–722) (Released Monday, December 21st, 2009 (718)/January 4th (719)/11th (720)/25th (721)/February 1st, 2010 (722))
206 — Room Traces/Froth, Steam, and Smoke (Volume 69, Files 723–725) (Released Monday, February 8th (723)/15th (724)/22nd, 2010 (725))
207 — Cold Case/Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case (Volume 69, Files 726–728) (Released Monday, March 1st (726)/8th (727)/15th, 2010 (728))
208 — Cabin Trap/The Shadow Approaching Haibara's Secret (Volume 69, File 729 and Volume 70, Files 730–731) (Released Monday, March 22nd/29th (730)/April 5th, 2010 (731))
209 — Mystery Train/The Jet-Black Mystery Train – Departure/Tunnel/Intersection/Destination (Volume 70, Files 732–738) (Released Monday, April 12th (732)/19th (733)/May 10th (734)/17th (735)/24th (736)/31st (737)/June 7th, 2010 (738))
210 — Tennis Meetup/Conan in a Locked Room and Bourbon Figures it Out (Volume 70, Files 739–740 and Volume 71, File 741) (Released Monday, June 14th (739)/21st (740)/July 12th, 2010 (741))
211 — Unexpected Murder/Everyone Saw (Volume 71, Files 742–744) (Released Monday, July 19th (742)/August 2nd (743)/16th, 2010 (744))
212 — Vampire’s Mansion/Heiji Hattori and the Vampire Mansion (Volume 71, Files 745–751) (Released Monday, August 23rd (745)/30th (746)/September 6th (747)/13th (748)/20th (749)/27th (750)/October 4th, 2010 (751))
213 — Delivery Service/Sweet and Cold Delivery Service (Volume 72, Files 752–754) (Released Monday, October 11th (752)/18th (753)/25th, 2010 (754))
214 — Our Territory/The Treasure Chest Filled With Fruits (Volume 72, Files 755–757) (Released Monday, November 1st (755)/15th (756)/22nd, 2010 (757))
215 — A Shrine to Remember/Jodie’s Memories and the Cherry Blossom Viewing Trap (Volume 72, Files 758–760) (Released Monday, November 29th (758)/December 20th, 2010 (759)/January 3rd, 2011 (760))
216 — Cocktail of Sorrow/Kogoro in the Bar (Volume 72, Files 761–762 and Volume 73, File 763) (Released Monday, January 10th (761)/17th (762)/24th, 2011 (763))
217 — Steamy Relations/Bathroom Where Ran Collapsed as Well (Volume 73, Files 764–766) (Released Monday, January 31st (764)/February 7th (765)/21st, 2011 (766))
218 — Bumper Brawn/The Suspect is Makoto Kyogoku (Volume 73, Files 767–769) (Released Monday, February 28th (767)/March 7th (768)/14th, 2011 (769))
219 — The Red Woman Murder Case/The Tragedy of the Red Woman (Volume 73, Files 770–773) (Released Monday, March 21st (770)/28th (771)/April 4th (772)/April 11th, 2011 (773))
220 — Romance Novelist Murder Case/The Unexpected Result of a Romance Novel (Volume 74, Files 774–776) (Released Monday, April 25th (774)/May 9th (775)/16th, 2011 (776))
221 — Drug Trading Case/Conan and Heiji – Code of Love (Volume 74, Files 777–779) (Released Monday, May 23rd (777)/30th (778)/June 6th, 2011 (779))
222 — Aquarium Murder Case/Shinichi Kudo Aquarium Case (Volume 74, Files 780–782) (Released Monday, June 13th (780)/20th (781)/27th, 2011 (782))
223 — Tea Poisoning Murder Case/The Tense Tea Party (Volume 74, Files 783–784 and Volume 75, File 785) (Released Monday, July 4th (783)/11th (784)/18th, 2011 (785))
224 — Elementary Teacher Assault/Scarlet Prologue and Scarlet Pursuit (Volume 75, Files 786–788) (Released Monday, August 1st (786)/29th (787)/September 5th, 2011 (788))
225 — Scarlet/Scarlet Intersection, Scarlet Return and Scarlet Truth (Volume 75, Files 789–793) (Released Monday, September 12th (789)/19th (790)/26th (791)/October 3rd (792)/17th, 2011 (793))

Another way is to have the cases (whether you cut a lot or not) have more effect on the status quo. Have Kir and the other members of the Organization play a role. Have ground gained and lost by Shinichi/Conan and the BO. Have more character development.

The final way would be to skip the arc, entirely—introduce Masumi, MG and Shukichi (and Shuichi/Subaru, if you like—else, just remove the hints to the fake death technique and have him die for real), in the 620s and even 630s, and jump right into the Rum arc with Hidemi/Kir telling Jodie and the FBI about Rum through a text (Or Shuichi/Subaru, and if he's going to live through File 608 and File 609, have the reader made aware of this immediately) and Shinichi/Conan is told about it. As for Rei/Tooru, either cut him or introduce him along with the Akai family members and have similar events play out—make clear he is a spy from the start, if that's going to stand—especially if Shuichi's alive. Have there be no disguises—maybe one on Mystery Train—and focus on other strategies/plans.

I'd say with the long interlude over, things will get going (the biggest problem of the arc), and there'll likely be more variety, with this new territory. I, too, am optimistic.

If Aoyama confirmed that she has nothing to do with the BO then her main purpose is to introduce different types of cases and solutions to them based on her personality (fruit case, red woman etc.). As of now her plot point could be related to the next time Shinichi appears in current timeline and puts some 'oomph' to Rans character (What else could it be, Ran and Conan meeting her when they were kids is most likely not going to have anything to do with the Org in the slightest).

So basically dont put too much effort into trying to "move on" from the Masumi stuff because that's just a new sub story arc like the love stories for now. Based on her role during cases, I doubt she's going anywhere.

She doesn't know about the BO—that's been confirmed. To say, for sure, that she won't have anything to do with the BO... I'm not going to do that. The Bourbon arc slowed everything down, and left us with many dangling plot threads—the Rum arc, and the one or two arcs that will follow will likely resolve them—the Shinichi/Ran/Masumi flashback will especially let the series progress forward.

[thriceplus]

I'm assuming people complain about the length because they didn't religiously follow Conan back in the early 00s. Vermouth's arc was arguably worse since nobody was prepared for that slugfest as there wasn't much precedence. At least with Bourbon's arc, everybody already knew that it was going on forever and it's pretty ludicrous to expect it to be short.

In my opinion, the overarching reason Bourbon's arc was boring was that it was somehow a weird clone of both Vermouth's arc (mostly the structure) and Kir's arc (mostly the character design) so it gets repetitive really fast. Some thoughts:

1. The structure is way too similar to Vermouth's arc. Both start with a new BO member on the hunt for Haibara. Then immediately after we get this super obvious suspect who has the word suspicion painted all over them. Then nothing happens for like 200 chapters. Then the confrontation happens and it's like "lolno actually that suspicious character? Actually FBI". We really didn't need this structure again.

2. Spending an entire arc finding out Bourbon was a undercover agent for the Japanese secret service was just so repetitive after we just finished an arc finding out Kir was one for the CIA. This is just lazy writing since neither the CIA, which was never mentioned ever since, nor that secret service is developed at all. What a crappy plot device just to make Bourbon secretly good.

3. Putting Eisuke on a bus just to rehash him. OK, this one is pretty ridiculous though I haven't seen many people mention this. Basically, the ONLY major recurring character ever to be put on a bus is Hondou Eisuke. Why? So Gosho can just split him in half and recreate him as two new characters. Let's see. Who is an androgynous high school student that transferred into Ran's class, became BFF with Ran and Sonoko, in order to look for a disappeared sibling who is a major character in the current arc? Who is a major character that becomes Kogoro's apprentice and suspects that Conan is the real mastermind and immediately rouses Conan's suspicion? That's like if Jodie suddenly transferred to Norway and we randomly get a new female blonde MI6 agent posing as a teacher and is one of Akai's old flames and has a grudge against Rum for murdering her father.

4. Bourbon's just so ****ing boring. As the main bad guy for the longest arc in Conan, you'd expect him be memorable, threatening and mysterious. Both Vermouth and Kir had interesting backgrounds that drove the plot, with Vermouth being an actress with disguising abilities and Kir being a reporter in a coma. What about Bourbon? He's ... a pretty good detective. I mean, really? That's the best Gosho can come up with?

5. Waaay too many "super-detectives" in the series now. Conan did well being a show about Kudo, the "savior of the Japanese police" and his rival from the West, Hattori Heiji being the main detectives. They were way beyond everyone else except their parents, the only ones that can best them, as well as Hakuba who specialized in thefts. Then the Bourbon arc came and introduced the Yamato, Komei, Sera, Shukichi, Bourbon and made Akai a Holmes loving detective as well so half the recurring cast are super detectives and every other case has at least another detective as competent as Kudo solving it with him. The problem is that, other than a few notable exceptions, they are identical to Conan and come up with the exact same deduction at the exact same time, so it just seems redundant to have them there. It's like having Avengers except everyone is Iron Man. At least add some diversity and make them specialize in different fields (arson, theft, etc) or make them come up with competing theories or something. I mean why is Kudo even a celebrity detective if a dozen characters in the series are just as good?

[thriceplus]

Another obvious point would be the introduction of Sera. Why was she added to the series? Because many fans wanted someone like her. That’s perfectly acceptable, but why had Aoyama to do it in the middle of the Bourbon arc? I highly doubt that there was such an enormous pressure to create her character as fast as possible and—even less so—make Sera a part of the plot. I don’t know if another rival for Heiji and Shinichi would have been welcomed by the readers; as far as I am concerned, I might have liked the idea of establishing a female equivalent to Heiji and Shinichi appearing from time to time in bigger cases and having the potential of shaking things up between Heiji and Kazuha or Shinichi and Ran, though I sense that Aoyama prefers his love stories to be as simple and as linear as possible.

I actually think introducing Sera is a pretty good move by Gosho, although I agree that there are far too many super detectives running around that Shinichi/Heiji are starting to lose the qualities that make them special. I'm not sure how introducing her in the middle of the Bourbon arc is strange. That's like asking: why had Gosho introduce Akai in the middle of Vermouth arc? Being Akai's sister, she definitely played a role in Bourbon's arc.

Whether these purposes are planned or not, she actually brings a lot of things to the table:
1. Fan demand. This one is obvious. People demanded a tomboy female detective.

2. She bridges the gap between normal cases and plot cases and is a central character connected with almost everyone. The only other characters (other than occasional appearances by Akai or Bourbon) that play a giant role in both are Agasa and Haibara. The Akai family has become extremely crucial to the plot so it makes sense to have a representative that is well-connected with the normal cast. It's simply too weird to have Conan hanging out with men like Akai or the other brother who are in their late 20s every day on a regular basis, which is why Sera got put in high school.

3. She makes Ran relevant again. I personally think this is a key reason that Sera was introduced. Remember, Ran hasn't had a major link with the main plot since the Halloween party 500 chapter ago. As for romance, the London arc really gets Gosho in a bind, since he really can't write much more without Ran reciprocating and ending the courtship. Thus Ran is starting to be doomed into irrelevance until the end of the series. But no fear, I think Sera being both Ran's new best friend and a huge player in the plot gives Ran a credible excuse to be indirectly involved. The Shinichi-Ran-Sera relationship has long been hinted to be pretty significant, especially if Sera actually becomes the first love rival for Ran, this could rekindle the Shinichi-Ran romance. And no, Ayumi is not considered a love rival since you really have to realize that they don't actually love the same person and Ai is still ambiguous.

[kkslider5552000]

I'm assuming people complain about the length because they didn't religiously follow Conan back in the early 00s. Vermouth's arc was arguably worse since nobody was prepared for that slugfest as there wasn't much precedence. At least with Bourbon's arc, everybody already knew that it was going on forever and it's pretty ludicrous to expect it to be short.

I disagree actually. Simply because it was the second story arc and did way more to indicate a long-term specific plan for where this was going (whereas the Haibara arc is mostly Haibara's introduction and 2-3 seperate based on what would happen considering Haibara is now around). It was still novel.


Also, can I mention...kind of a weak introduction in the first place. Both Vermouth and Kir got introductions in super important episodes, being awesome. Bourbon is introduced via warning by Kir.

I mean, this would be fine honestly...until he was introduced via being some detective-y guy. ...ok. Probably why it took a while for the character to be memorable. Well that and his fake happy personality was...meh. Asshole Bourbon's great though.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

Personally, I accepted the idea that the series will never end, there's too much elements which "confirms" that. The endless fillers, the plot goes never forward, the thousand mysteries that need hundred of files to be solved (a lot of stuff was never really solved during the Vermouth arc), etc... it's like a soap-opera, I watch it like some people watch "The Young and the Restless" (for example).
Like others said, the bourbon arc was too long and repetitive, and Gosho get lost with the sera stuff because she wasn't planned, she was an editor request.

[Kudo Shinchi]

The Bourbon arc, as many have already, was simply far too long. Seven years for one arc is just mind-boggling, and I hope Gosho never even begins to approach that length in future arcs.

That being said, I still have a mostly positive view of the Bourbon arc. It had problems (too long, uneven pacing, repetitive plot elements, unorganized structure) but also did a lot of things right. I personally find the three core mystery characters (Okiya, Sera, and Amuro) to be some of the best Gosho's created. More importantly, Gosho managed to give them all three good characterization while keeping them enigmas for the most part, which is pretty impressive; this is something he didn't manage with the three mystery characters of the Vermouth arc (Akai, Jodie, and Araide), as the first two were developed mostly in the following arcs while the third was forgotten about. The Bourbon arc's mystery cast have a greater and more lasting presence as well, since they are all positioned close to Conan's daily life and so appear more frequently than Akai or Jodie did, who only came in during BO cases. This has the added benefit of making it easier for Gosho to do "plot" cases, as he can now do them without bringing in the BO at all.

I disagree with the popular perception of the Bourbon arc as a seven year "filler" arc. This might seem like an odd perspective, but I don't view plot progression in DC simply in terms of the BO plot. Regardless of whether you like the romance aspect of DC or not, it is an important part of the series, and the story won't properly end without resolution to the romance subplots. So, to get an accurate measure of how much closer the series is to ending, you have to account for the progress in the romance threads. In that regard, the Bourbon arc is unmatched. At its start Takagi and Sato were still being teased as a couple, and by the end of it they were an established, public couple on a first name basis. Shiratori ended his rivalry with Takagi. Shinichi confessed to Ran. And so on. These are important milestones. The Bourbon arc also firmly established that Ran is suspecting Conan again, and has laid the foundations for a major suspicion arc in the future (I recommend taking a look at the observations of the 'Red Thread' facebook page for those who haven't already). It also brought back nearly-forgotten, crucial plot points from the Vermouth arc (Haibara's message, Itakura, Vermouth's non-aging, Elena Miyano), as if in preparation for them becoming very relevant.

So as mentioned earlier in this thread, the Bourbon arc was more or less an extended set-up for the future of the series. However, that really only becomes clear in hindsight. During the arc itself, most, myself included, thought it would be a major one on the level of the Vermouth arc. Instead it turned out to be an interlude, though one that dealt with so many characters and plot points that I'd argue it's almost as significant as the Vermouth arc. Of course, a seven year arc being revealed to be one long interlude isn't exactly something most people would find good, and so the backlash against it makes sense. I think how the Bourbon arc is ultimately viewed in the long-term is dependent on how the things it set up pay off (or don't).

[irishock]

I liked the cellphone arc better. At least it felt like we were getting somewhere. In the Bourbon arc it was just a matter of, how damn long is this thing going to take before they finally reveal Akai is Okiya and go back to square one?

[DCUniverseAficionado]

An easy fix would be to simply reorder the stories and cut a bunch (if you think there were important elements from a certain case, it can be placed in another case that is more apparently relevant.

Here's an example of how it could've gone:

180 — The Truth Behind the Urban Legend of the Hammer Man (Volume 60, File 622–File 624/File 3–File 5)
181 — Kaitou Kid Vs. The Iron Tanuki (Volume 60, File 625–File 627/File 6–File 8)
182 — Murderer, Shinichi Kudo (Volume 60, File 628–File 630/File 9–File 11 and Volume 61, File 631–File 633/File 1–File 3)
183 — The Highway Murder and What Ran Truly Wants to Ask (Volume 61, File 634–File 636/File 4–File 6)
184 — Red, White, Yellow, and the Detective Boys (Volume 61, File 637–File 639/File 7–File 9)
185 — Shinichi, Subaru Okiya, and the Mystery of the Paper Airplane (Volume 61, File 640–File 641 and Volume 62, File 642/File 1)
186 — A Dangerous Couple (Volume 62, File 643–File 644/File 2–File 3)
187 — The Mansion of Death and the Red Wall (Volume 62, File 645–File 649/File 4–File 8)
188 — The Kirin's Horn That Vanished into the Dark – Kaitou Kid Vs. The Four Divine Detective Boys (Volume 62, File 650–File 652/File 9–File 11 and Volume 63, File 653/File 1)
189 — Battle for the Haunted Warehouse's Treasure (Volume 63, File 654–File 656/File 2–File 4)
190 — The Whereabouts of the Revealing Charm (Volume 63, File 657–File 659/File 5–File 7)
191 — The Holmes Code, the Grass Court Queen, Love is Zero and Zero is the Start (Volume 63, File 660–File 663/File 8–File 11 and Volume 64, File 664–File 669/File 1–File 6)
192 — Deduction Showdown at the Haunted Hotel (Volume 64, File 670–File 672/File 7–File 9)
193 — Bomber's Request – The Case of the Besieged Detective Agency (Volume 64, File 673–File 674/File 10–File 11 and Volume 65, File 675–File 676/File 1–File 2)
194 — Target on the Doc's Video (Volume 65, File 677–File 679/File 3–File 5)
195 — The Scar of First Love (Volume 65, File 680–File 682/File 6–File 8)
196 — The Scar that Evokes the Past and a Detective's Spirit (Volume 65, File 683–File 685/File 9–File 11 and Volume 66, File 686/File 1)
197 — Kaitou Kid and the Purple Nail – Teleportation Magic (Volume 66, File 687–File 690/File 2–File 5)
198 — Conan Vs. Heiji – Deduction Battle Between the Detectives of the East and West (Volume 66, File 691–File 693/File 6–File 8)
199 — An Eye for an Eye – The Design of Poison and Mirage (Volume 66, File 694–File 696/File 9–File 11 and Volume 67, File 697–File 699/File 1–File 3)
200 — A Private Eye at Wedding's Eve (Volume 67, File 700–File 702/File 4–File 6)
201 — An Online Client – The Detectives’ Nocturne (Volume 67, File 703–File 707/File 7–File 11)
202 — The Overnight Deadline and The Life-Threatening Broadcast of Love (Volume 68, File 708–File 712/File 1–File 5)
203 — Conan's and Kid's Battle for Ryoma's Treasure (Volume 68, File 713–File 715/File 6–File 8)
204 — Inubushi Castle and the Blazing Demon Dog (Volume 68, File 716–File 718/File 9–File 11 and Volume 69, File 719–File 722/File 1–File 4)
205 — Detective Boys Vs Robbers – Turmoil at Teito Bank (Volume 69, File 723–File 725/File 5–File 7)
206 — Tomorrow is There (Volume 69, File 726/File 8)
207 — The Crisis Beckoned by the Red Omen – Silent Clash at Beika Department Store (Volume 69, File 727–File 729/File 9–File 11 and Volume 70, File 730–File 731/File 1–File 2)
208 — The Cabin Trap and The Shadow Approaching Haibara's Secret (Volume 70, File 732–File 734/File 3–File 5)
209 — Murder on the Bell-Tree Express – The Jet-Black Mystery Train (Volume 70, File 735–File 740/File 6–File 11 and Volume 71, File 741/File 1)
210 — Kaitou Kid and the Blush Mermaid (Volume 71, File 742–File 744/File 2–File 4)
211 — Stockbroker Murder (Volume 71, File 745–File 747/File 5–File 7)
212 — Heiji Hattori and the Vampire Mansion (Volume 71, File 748–File 751/File 8–File 11 and Volume 72, File 752–754/File 1–File 3)
213 — A Shrine to Remember – Jodie’s Memories and the Cherry Blossom Viewing Trap (Volume 72, File 755–File 757/File 4–File 6)
214 — A Cocktail of Sorrow (Volume 72, File 758–File 760/File 7–File 9)
215 — Steamy Relations (Volume 72, File 761–File 762/File 10–File 11 and Volume 73, File 763/File 1)
216 — Bumper Brawn – Suspect, Makoto Kyogoku (Volume 73, File 764–File 766/File 2–File 4)
217 — Twin Bets – Kaitou Kid Vs Makoto Kyogoku (Volume 73, File 767–File 769/File 5–File 7)
218 — Conan, Heiji and the Drug Traders' Code (Volume 73, File 770–File 772/File 8–File 10)
219 — The Tense Tea Party (Volume 73, File 773/File 11 and Volume 74, File 774–File 775/File 1–File 2)
220 — Scarlet Prologue – Bourbon's Pursuit and the Assault of an Elementary School Teacher (Volume 74, File 776–File 778/File 3–File 5)
221 — Scarlet Showdown – The Silver Bullets and the Truth (Volume 74, File 779–File 783/File 6–File 10)

You could cut cases from this, too, of course.

This doesn't fix the problem of rehashing, though.

I still have a mostly positive view of the Bourbon arc. It had problems (too long, uneven pacing, repetitive plot elements, unorganized structure) but also did a lot of things right. I personally find the three core mystery characters (Okiya, Sera, and Amuro) to be some of the best Gosho's created. More importantly, Gosho managed to give them all three good characterization while keeping them enigmas for the most part, which is pretty impressive; this is something he didn't manage with the three mystery characters of the Vermouth arc (Akai, Jodie, and Araide), as the first two were developed mostly in the following arcs while the third was forgotten about. The Bourbon arc's mystery cast have a greater and more lasting presence as well, since they are all positioned close to Conan's daily life and so appear more frequently than Akai or Jodie did, who only came in during BO cases. This has the added benefit of making it easier for Gosho to do "plot" cases, as he can now do them without bringing in the BO at all.

I like the three characters of the Bourbon arc, as well. The number of plot cases did certainly increase with their involvement.

Tomoaki was a "stealth" character—either you never suspected that Vermouth had been disguised as him since Desperate Revival, or you saw "his" continued appearances and took note of the information given and realized that something was up, and that Jodie was not Vermouth.

I disagree with the popular perception of the Bourbon arc as a seven year "filler" arc. This might seem like an odd perspective, but I don't view plot progression in DC simply in terms of the BO plot. Regardless of whether you like the romance aspect of DC or not, it is an important part of the series, and the story won't properly end without resolution to the romance subplots. So, to get an accurate measure of how much closer the series is to ending, you have to account for the progress in the romance threads. In that regard, the Bourbon arc is unmatched. At its start Takagi and Sato were still being teased as a couple, and by the end of it they were an established, public couple on a first name basis. Shiratori ended his rivalry with Takagi. Shinichi confessed to Ran. And so on. These are important milestones. The Bourbon arc also firmly established that Ran is suspecting Conan again, and has laid the foundations for a major suspicion arc in the future (I recommend taking a look at the observations of the 'Red Thread' facebook page for those who haven't already). It also brought back nearly-forgotten, crucial plot points from the Vermouth arc (Haibara's message, Itakura, Vermouth's non-aging, Elena Miyano), as if in preparation for them becoming very relevant.

BO plot: Only major event is the BO thinking Shiho/Sherry is dead.

Romance: Much progress

People took issue with this—by "people" I mean those who either lost interest in the romances or never had an interest to begin with. Wataru and Miwako, though, is more generally well-liked.

The same people didn't want an interlude—they wanted a impactful followup to the big events at the end of the Kir arc.

So as mentioned earlier in this thread, the Bourbon arc was more or less an extended set-up for the future of the series. However, that really only becomes clear in hindsight. During the arc itself, most, myself included, thought it would be a major one on the level of the Vermouth arc. Instead it turned out to be an interlude, though one that dealt with so many characters and plot points that I'd argue it's almost as significant as the Vermouth arc. Of course, a seven year arc being revealed to be one long interlude isn't exactly something most people would find good, and so the backlash against it makes sense. I think how the Bourbon arc is ultimately viewed in the long-term is dependent on how the things it set up pay off (or don't).

You're right—how much a role its characters and questions will play a role in every subsequent arc will determine how people view it, looking back.

[Antiyonder]

I watch it like some people watch "The Young and the Restless" (for example).

That's fine, but didn't TY&TR actually change the cast after a while, and thus not trying to keep the same status quo for later-current episodes whereas DC keeps the same cast and status quo, mostly for the lead character?

I don't, I'd think a more appropriate anime comparison would be Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon where they either allowed the cast to progress through life (Digimon 02 and the upcoming revival) or switch up the cast completely and thus having the best of both worlds.