Shuichi & Kir's Future Plans

[Sachi]

Just watched episode 781-783 and it seems that Toru knows and that the only reason he didn't find out was because Yusaku rickrolled him. Since he was duped, he is bound to find out eventually. This could pose a problem for both Subaru and Kir, cause if the whole thing is found out, Subaru will die for real and Kir might get kicked out of suffer the same fate. Subaru is out while Kir is still in. Those two are highly intelligent people who were even able to fool the big man Gin into thinking that the corpse was real. So how will the both of them get out of this jam?

My guess is that Kir will convince Vermouth to talk one on one like Toru did with Subaru. During the conversation, she'll force Vermouth to slip and reveal she's the boss while recording their conversation. She will put said conversation on disk and hide it on her person. Then she'll reveal her true allegiance to Vermouth, forcing Vermouth to shoot her dead in order for Vermouth to keep her facade of not being the boss. She'll wait for Vermouth to leave, then she'll disguise herself as deceased Akemi Miyano and join Subaru aka Shuichi as his one true love (which Akemi really was) with the disc in her possession.

Then the two will go to Hiroshi's house and collect Ai, pretending that her older sister and her husband want to take care of her, thus enabling Shuuichi to fulfill his promise to deceased Akemi. They will have Vermouth's confession that she's the boss and dangle it over her head how easily they can go with that info to the police and cause her to be arrested in case she discovers that Ai is still alive and comes after her.

This way, all three of my top characters get a happy ending.

By the way, I still hate Toru. How he cornered poor Shu-chan makes me want to strangle him. And I don't care what his true allegiance is. He contributed to death of Sherry/Kaito, he also actively tried to prove that Shuichi is alive, thereby damning both him and Kir.

[Nemomon]

1. I think Tooru knows that Kir is a spy. He knows that Akai couldn't survive unless Kir helped him. And since he knows that Akai is alive, the only possible explanation is that Kir is a spy like him too.

2. He probably won't try to hurt Kir. He knows that she wants the same thing as he and his agency want. Especially now considering that he received his codename, so he doesn't really have a reason to hurt another spy.

3. Tooru isn't stupid, he knows that the main target is the BO and Anokata. He has a deep hatred towards Akai, but I think he will change his plans, especially now that Akai told him that the real prey is elsewhere.

4. Tooru knows that Conan works with Akai. If he really wanted to find Akai, he would kidnap Conan or otherwise force him to tell where Akai is hiding.

5. Vermouth is not the Boss. She is related to him somehow, but she's not the Boss. Provided she isn't their clone.

6. Vermouth knows that Kir is a spy. Kir also knows that Vermouth knows that. That is why Vermouth won't talk with Kir, and for sure will not reveal her anything. Probably she will not allow meeting her.

7. The death of Sherry was planned all along. Thanks to that the BO thinks she's dead and are not chasing her any more. Only Vermouth knows that she's alive.

8. I would suggest You watching the series once more .

[Serinox]

My guess is that Kir will convince Vermouth to talk one on one like Toru did with Subaru. During the conversation, she'll force Vermouth to slip and reveal she's the boss while recording their conversation. She will put said conversation on disk and hide it on her person. Then she'll reveal her true allegiance to Vermouth, forcing Vermouth to shoot her dead in order for Vermouth to keep her facade of not being the boss. She'll wait for Vermouth to leave, then she'll disguise herself as deceased Akemi Miyano and join Subaru aka Shuichi as his one true love (which Akemi really was) with the disc in her possession.

Aside from the fact that Vermouth is not the boss, how is this supposed to work? Kir forces Vermouth to confess that she is the boss...somehow? And then she tells Vermouth that she is a spy and Vermouth shoots her, but she's still alive? How would she be able to pull that off? Vermouth is not stupid, she wouldn't just shoot her from a distance and then leave like "Ah, she's probably dead, whatever." Vermouth would check if she's really dead, especially since Vermouth knows that Kir and Akai faked a death before. Even if not, Vermouth would probably look to dispose of the body, since, you know, just leaving a corpse somewhere isn't very smart and would recognize if Kir was still alive.

I don't want to be rude, but most of this post doesn't make sense.

[Sachi]

You forgot that in episode 783 when he confronted her, Toru told her something like this

"If you kill me, I will reveal your secret that you are the Boss...."

meaning she is the boss and he knows it.

@Serinox I don't want to be rude, but I posted this only because a member of this site told me to tell them what I think after I reached episode 784.

[darkest absol]

You forgot that in episode 783 when he confronted her, Toru told her something like this

"If you kill me, I will reveal your secret that you are the Boss...."

meaning she is the boss and he knows it.

No, I thought what Amuro said was more along the lines of this:

"If you kill me, I will reveal your secret that you are the boss's..." Vermouth then cut him off before he could finish.

In other words, Vermouth has a connection to the boss, but she is not the boss herself.

[Nemomon]

You forgot that in episode 783 when he confronted her, Toru told her something like this

"If you kill me, I will reveal your secret that you are the Boss...."

meaning she is the boss and he knows it.

You are wrong.

Tooru said: " you're the Boss' ". That ' sign means "you're the boss's something".

Ninja'd!

[Sachi]

Even if it's so, they could still use that to blackmail her, like Toru did.

[Serinox]

To achieve what? Get more info about the boss? I doubt Vermouth would spill it. Don't forget that Vermouth wants to see the BO destroyed, so if somehow leaking infos about the boss would achieve that, she would've done it by now. It's more likely that she's keeping shut about the boss and her relationship to the boss, because of similar reasons as to why she didn't give the info of Shiho and Shinichi shrinking to the other members. What those reasons are, is still one of the unresolved question of the series.

Also, spilling intel about the boss would probably be worse for Vermouth than the relationship between her and the boss becoming known to the other members, so you can't really blackmail her with that for that particular matter.

[Nemomon]

Except that Tooru somehow had to find this out. It was not written on the wall waiting for someone to read.

We know that Tooru won't let anybody else to know this, so there's possibly no other way for the others to find this out. I would risk saying that even Shiho doesn't really know why Vermouth hates her that much and wants to kill her. So they cannot blackmail Vermouth. Plus... how the others would blackmail her if they even don't know how to contact the BO and where they are? The only other option would be Kir or Akai, but I'm pretty sure that Kir would not want to put an attention to herself. And Akai is not the type to blackmail someone. Besides, he wants to kill her, and not to blackmail her.

[Sachi]

To achieve what? Get more info about the boss? I doubt Vermouth would spill it. Don't forget that Vermouth wants to see the BO destroyed, so if somehow leaking infos about the boss would achieve that, she would've done it by now. It's more likely that she's keeping shut about the boss and her relationship to the boss, because of similar reasons as to why she didn't give the info of Shiho and Shinichi shrinking to the other members. What those reasons are, is still one of the unresolved question of the series.

Also, spilling intel about the boss would probably be worse for Vermouth than the relationship between her and the boss becoming known to the other members, so you can't really blackmail her with that for that particular matter.

To stop Vermouth from going after Ai on her own.

[Serinox]

To achieve what? Get more info about the boss? I doubt Vermouth would spill it. Don't forget that Vermouth wants to see the BO destroyed, so if somehow leaking infos about the boss would achieve that, she would've done it by now. It's more likely that she's keeping shut about the boss and her relationship to the boss, because of similar reasons as to why she didn't give the info of Shiho and Shinichi shrinking to the other members. What those reasons are, is still one of the unresolved question of the series.

Also, spilling intel about the boss would probably be worse for Vermouth than the relationship between her and the boss becoming known to the other members, so you can't really blackmail her with that for that particular matter.

To stop Vermouth from going after Ai on her own.

But they already did that? Vermouth has given up on Ai after the Mystery Train already.

[Sachi]

She hates her. I don't think she'd give up so easily.

[Max1996]

She hates her. I don't think she'd give up so easily.

After the Mystery Train, however, Vermouth's situation changed completely. Here's why:
She is the only one of the BO to know about the shrinking. She saw that Ai was alive after her report that Sherry's death was witnessed by Bourbon. However, she can not report this without revealing:
1. That Sherry shrunk due to APTX4869
2. That Vermouth knew all along and was hiding this from the rest of the BO.

Because of this, Vermouth can't reveal anything about Sherry being alive without running the risk of getting herself killed for hiding important info from the BO.

[Kor]

Vermouth had every opportunity since ep 345 to kill Haibara if she wanted to.
In 345, she said she'd stop going after Haibara. During Mystery Train she had no choice because Sherry's potential location was found out by Bourbon, so she had to kill her despite her promise to Conan because she couldn't let her associates know about the shrinking.