Why do people dislike Ran?

[Antiyonder]

That's just a bit of trouble Conan will have to deal with for the greater good.

Hmmm. Except, you're overlooking an important fact. If Shinichi reverted back into Conan when on the highway following the Shiragami story, it would result in his secret being out on an even wider scale, and thus placing Ran in the danger that you keep stating she isn't ready for.

Yeah, she still is in danger even if she doesn't find out, but situation would unnecessarily get more complicated and even more troublesome if she did find out.

Duh, it IS because Ran is not prepared that's why she's been kept in the dark, we do have the luxury of choice here whether to keep her ignorant, or tell her and potentially get her in serious trouble. You cannot deliberately get her in trouble and then say "one doesn't always have the the luxury of preparation" when you had the luxury of choice to keep her out of it.

Sure, but as you yourself admit, keeping her in the dark doesn't mean she'll be safe. Heck, just look at my previous example in Episode 425. As far as Gin was concerned, Conan is just an average little boy who is no real threat to the Organization, yet he's still prepared to gun him down simply to cover his tracks.

Now if I may point out a compromise that might help Ran adjust. Maybe he doesn't need to let out the whole truth right away. He could be honest with her in regards that a couple of criminal fed him an experimental point without informing her of the Organization and their connection to it, or at least right away.

Heck, Conan himself was unaware of the Organization until Akemi mentioned them.

[Silverbullet96]

Hmmm. Except, you're overlooking an important fact. If Shinichi reverted back into Conan when on the highway following the Shiragami story, it would result in his secret being out on an even wider scale, and thus placing Ran in the danger that you keep stating she isn't ready for.

In that situation obviously telling Ran and going to somewhere safe to revert back, yes that would logically be the better choice, but still I think (and probably Conan does too) telling Ran his identity is so far out of the question that he didn't want to give in that easily, and you know, he did escape somehow. I'll just say the same thing again, it's just a bit of trouble and risk he'll have to take for the greater good.

Sure, but as you yourself admit, keeping her in the dark doesn't mean she'll be safe. Heck, just look at my previous example in Episode 425. As far as Gin was concerned, Conan is just as average little boy who is no real threat to the Organization, yet he's still prepared to gun him down simply to cover his tracks.

Now if I may point out a compromise that might help Ran adjust. Maybe he doesn't need to let out the whole truth right away. He could be honest with her in regards that a couple of criminal fed him an experimental point without informing her of the Organization and their connection to it, or at least right away.

Heck, Conan himself was unaware of the Organization until Akemi mentioned them.

Sure, but she will be in more danger if she does know the secret. And about the compromise, it's still telling her his identity and the reason that's dangerous - I've explained it quite a few times now. It would be even more dangerous actually, since she won't even know that she has to keep that secret safe or the BO will kill them. The organization isn't the key to the big revelation, it's Conan's identity. If she starts behaving differently with him it's over for them, whether she knows about the organization or not.

[Antiyonder]

In that situation obviously telling Ran and going to somewhere safe to revert back, yes that would logically be the better choice, but still I think (and probably Conan does too) telling Ran his identity is so far out of the question that he didn't want to give in that easily, and you know, he did escape somehow. I'll just say the same thing again, it's just a bit of trouble and risk he'll have to take for the greater good.

If he has to take a risk either way, then frankly I think it's questionable to insist that keeping her in the dark is the perfect choice.

Granted, I can't be too sure whether Gosho intends for us to see Shinichi as the all too perfect hero, or a hero capable of moral flaws, but isn't it possible that part of Conan's reason for secrecy is simply because he finds it easier than to admit that he might possibly be wrong (basically a thing of pride).

I mean he revealed himself to Eisuke for no other reason than to cock block him.

And like I keep asking and received no answer yet, if he wants Ran to be safe, wouldn't moving out from her place be the wiser choice? Especially since at this point he has others he can actually turn to as opposed to Kogoro.

Sure, but she will be in more danger if she does know the secret. And about the compromise, it's still telling her his identity and the reason that's dangerous - I've explained it quite a few times now. It would be even more dangerous actually, since she won't even know that she has to keep that secret safe or the BO will kill them. The organization isn't the key to the big revelation, it's Conan's identity. If she starts behaving differently with him it's over for them, whether she knows about the organization or not.

Didn't consider that. So I suppose the compromise is a no-no.

But as for her slip up being a factual game ender?

1. If Heiji's constant slip ups haven't compromised the secret, then is it safe to write Ran off as a threat to their secrecy?

2. I'm certainly not dismissing that Ran finding out Conan's secret is a risk. But do you find it impossible to have her organically developing from a hindrance into a helpful ally against the BO?


At any rate, even if having Conan just out of the blue confessing to her is undoable, I still think the results could be achieved with Ran being able to find actual evidence should another suspicion arc arise. Evidence that Shinichi wouldn't be able to easily dismiss or for that manner, Ran approaching him in a fashion that leaves him with no time to throw her off again.

[Christcc9]

Is the main question's: Ran useless in the anime?
Because I don't like her but I admit she's useful for a lot of characters.

[Antiyonder]

Is the main question: Ran useless in the anime?
Because I don't like her but I admit she's useful for a lot of characters.

She has her moments, and if the series was much, much shorter, I'd agree that her character is satisfying enough. But can you honestly say her use is substantial for a 20 year old series?

Personally I think having a love interest serving no long term purpose other than to be a trophy that the main character receives in the eventual end is iffy, but at least in a shorter story, redundancy doesn't become an issue. Especially when the set up doesn't put said love interest in to the spotlight frequently.

Not to mention that if the story doesn't allow for the main couple to become official until the end, then I would think that creatively speaking, it makes all the more sense to give the love interest something to do other than being a reward for the hero. Forget about whether it's sexist or demeaning. At least giving them an additional purpose means that they don't become stale.

Especially when you consider that out of most cast members (sans Shinichi/Conan) we see her more often.

With Kogoro, you at least have him serving as the dummy that Conan uses to solve a murder.

[Kleene Onigiri]

So I think our discussion boils down to whether you think Ran could mentally be able to cope with being a target & being literally very close to the most dangerous criminal organization in the world.

Yes, that was one point that was said.

And no, she can't. She's just a teenage high school girl.

Shinichi, Heiji, Kaito KID, Hakuba and Sera are also only high school teenagers. Shinichi, Hakuba and KID(?) doesn't even do martial arts.

Sure she can perform stunts and has confidence in her Karate, but being heavily involved with the BO is way different than saving Sonoko in an action sequence.

How is that different? Why is Shinichi, who can only kick a ball in dangerous situations, better at coping immediate dangerous situations than Ran?
Your statement doesn't make sense.

Forget about helping Haibara,

Why should we forget her helping Haibara? Or her helping Sonoko? Or her jumping out of a window to chase that one Detective with the glasses (the case where Akemi dies)?
Or her being calm and keeping her cool while being taken hostage together with Sera (and Shinichi on the phone). See, another example found. Shinichi is nearby and she was still able to act cool and use her karate. She didn't stare into the clouds thinking: "OMG it's SHINICHI on the PHONE!" like you seem to imply Ran would do, because she's in love with Shinichi.

You argument here is simply: "I don't think Ran did anything! She's a bad character! Who cares if there is evidence that she did something! Let's forget that completely!"
Which is not an argument. It's your biased opinion.

we've seen a lot of tough characters, for eg. Jodie from FBI getting a bit shaky in front of BO, even Gin and Bourbon (when Shuuichi shows up),

When exactly was Jodie shaky in front of the BO? She actually confronted Vermouth and almost got her if Vermouth wouldn't have fooled the other FBIs. She confronted the person she hates the most. She's a mentally strong character too.

Spoiler:

Waring, possible story spoiler, I don't know where the Anime is currently.


If you mean her running after Scar Akai during that T-Shirt case. That's what Akai created by lying to Jodie about his death. He needed to fool his friends so that they react accordingly (like Jodie crying in her car alone and Vermouth witnessing it). This got Jodie into danger.

So again, it's not true what you say, since I could easily proof that she wasn't shaky in front of the BOs. It's just your (biased?) opinion about a character.

and you think Mouri Ran of all people can deal with being very close to the center of these guys like a champ?

Your previous statement was false. So there is no support in your claim that Ran can't be "like a champ" in front of the BO when Jodie can do it.
And again, Ran showed multiple times that she can be "like a champ" in dangerous situations.
Another example of her heroism: She ran into a burning house to save someone. Conan supported her with his knowledge, so that she would use a helmet while running into the house. That way Ran was in less danger of getting her hair burned.
This shows that they together, are way better at solving problems than them being on their own. Another reason why Ran would be a big help against the BO if she would know his secret.

And another evidence why she's mentally strong or a strong character in general.
People around her said she's a strong person. For example Sera, who is a rather strong character herself. Sera said it so herself. Conan was then wondering, if she meant the Karate that Ran can do. But it was clear that she meant that Ran is mentally strong too. (that was during the case where Sera, Ran and Kogoro get taken hostage in order to solve a case. Manga Chapter 771+)

Yeah, no.

Indeed. Yeah, no, you don't show any evidence to support your opinion. (I can't call it a theory, sorry. You don't show evidence or facts that you can support your theory with. So it's just an opinion of yours.)

Not to mention that she even gives a small look to the BO of her changed behavior with Conan, she blows his cover for good right there and then.

Like I already said before. There was a time where Ran was thinking that Conan is Shinichi. She barely acted any different. It was Conan who noticed the slight difference. And that was also because she didn't want to bath with Conan anymore. Outsiders, especially if they didn't know how they acted before, wouldn't notice anything.

Also, Heiji and Ran aren't even needed tho show that "the kid Conan is strange". He does plenty of "unusual stuff" himself. He talks like an adult, he tries to solve cases and so on. During the Red T-Shirt case he panicked because he thought he revealed himself with his behavior. (Standing in the open while surrounded by people and speaking into his bowtie is sooooo not obvious :x)
There is also Agasa who acts differently to Conan (and Haibara) than to the DBs. So he's a potential risk already. Heiji is doing the same. Both of them are calling him Shinichi or Kudo.

Spoiler:

Potentiol Manga Spoiler! You've been warned!!!!



Conan and Haibara also talk about the BO openly on the street! The DB were also curious what they were talking about, since they were able to hear what they said, even tho they walked a bit further in front.

So yeah, Conan is almost blowing his cover himself. A lot.
Adding Ran, who will certainly be able to address Conan as Conan in the open, isn't making much difference to the risk of revealing his identity.
And like Antiyonder pointed out with his cons and pros, the pros are weighting more than the cons.

P.S. I remember she cried uncontrollably during that teacher case.

P.S.: She cried after she finished her deduction show.
Even the great detectives show some feelings when they aren't currently deducting or solving a case. Like Conan being melancholy after the Moonlight Sonata case, because he wasn't able to prevent the suicide. You can even see Akai on the roof looking at the last message he got from Akemi. And this while the BO is right at the front door.
So, no, you're wrong again. It's nothing bad to show their feeling after the case. Or why would it be bad for Ran while the other "great" character are allowed to do it?

kkslider5552000 and Kleene Onigiri: See the superhero angle is another reason why we need to see this change. Early on it seemed like Shinichi's predicament was suppose to teach him the error's of his hubris ways. Even Agasa pointed out that he needs to refrain from making rash decisions lest he faces death as a consequence.

Yet the manga nowadays rarely seems to regard him as well a person who's capable of being wrong. The London arc especially makes it seem like Ran is being unreasonable because she expects her friend to you know, be truthful towards her.

Heck, the majority of confession fics tend to fall into the trap of having Ran be completely understanding and fine that her best friend has been deceitful for quite some time to her. Which again is why I think so highly of the fic in my signature. It shows understanding towards Conan's plight while keeping in mind that his good intentions don't always make his course of action right.

Having this development would not only serve Ran's character well, but it would be a brilliant way to have Conan dealing with the fact that for all of his positive qualities, he is still just as capable of screwing up like any other mortal and needs to sometimes admit when he's wrong.

Case in point. Will Ran cope with the knowledge perfectly? Definitely not. But if given the chance to be part of the secret and given some help (again having Yukiko help her to control her emotions to the point that she can keep from hasty reactions), she could be just as reliable as Agasa, Haibara and Heiji. In the process, Conan would have to cope with the fact that he greatly underestimated someone who shows

But with how Gosho writes the character, I'm afraid that he views Conan to be in the right and that his good intentions justifies his distrustfulness and that Ran will under react in the end.

Not sure why you're addressing me here?
I mentioned in this thread before, that Conan's "super hero image" is damaging other characters, like Ran but also all other characters, like the police or the FBI. Heck, even the BO seem like they are a group if cute little fluffy kittens, because they aren't seen as a big threat anymore.

But that also get's enchanted because of this "status quo". In that status quo, Conan may not fail yet. Because if he fails, it means the BO will be coming. But they may not come yet, because Gosho doesn't want to end the series yet.
And in that status quo, the other characters are being stale too. Ran can't advance, because the story won't let her. So she's "frozen in time" where she's still waiting for Shinichi. Haibara can't advance at all either, because she's related to the BO plot a lot. So she's also "frozen in time" with her not revealing any info at all. The police is being useless, because if they don't need Conan to solve the cases, Conan will lose his importance. And the FBI are looking like dorks, because the main characters may not do any "mayor fails", because otherwise the image of Conan would fall apart again (and the BO will come too :x XD)

So I agree with you and kklsider. The super hero image and the status quo are hurting all characters who are not Conan (or Akai or any other "super hero" character in the series).
Still, even if Gosho wants to start the end of the series yet, he could still make the characters look better with other plots or stories. Like Ran finding out Conan's identity could be one thing that doesn't necessary lead to the BO attacking. Or more people finding out about Haibara's identity too. Like the DBs, Ran, Sonoko or Sera. Imagine Sera and Haibara mocking Conan together XD
There would be more interactions. Usually, it's mainly Conan interacting with other characters. There are rarely interactions between other characters (especially for Haibara, sadly )

Which leads to this:

Is the main question: Ran useless in the anime?
Because I don't like her but I admit she's useful for a lot of characters.

Ran (and other characters) would seem more useful if not for Conan's super hero image and the status quo.
A lot of "flaws" people hate about Ran is mainly resulting because of that. People wouldn't hate her (or hate her less) if this would change.

Also, I'm not the biggest fan of potential logical reasons get in the way of making a series more interesting. At the end of the day, I'm more interested in a series being entertaining than being 100% believable (though a balance of both is usually preferable). So even if you're 100% right, I still hope she finds out sooner rather than later (obviously she will before the series is over, I don't think there's any doubt).

I also prefer interesting things over logic. But the problem with DC is, that it's a series about deduction and logic. So illogical things hurt the series more than it would for other series.

[Antiyonder]

Kleene Onigiri: I was pretty much just agreeing with you and adding to what was said on the topic.

Though I'd say that while Conan's hero imagine does come at the expense of the other characters being credible, he still suffers from it in a different way. Mainly in that he's not allowed to be shown in a less than favorable manner compared to the early days where it seemed like becoming Conan was meant to be a learning experience in humility. And really, the best heroes are sometimes the ones that are allowed to be in the wrong and sometime be shown to be their own worst enemy at times.

That said, I'd add Kogoro to the list of characters who suffers as well.

Sure there are attempt to show that he can solve a case, but aside from the number of cases solved by him being low, he seems to only do his best when the cases are of a more personal variety. I mean he doesn't need to be on par with the teen detectives, but if we're suppose to see him having the potential for success after Conan's back to normal for good, there needs to be more development on his skills.

And yeah, as I've been willing to concede to posters like Silverbullet, I can kind of agree that from an in-universe perspective there might be no easy answer in regards to telling Ran or letting her remain ignorant. But when the reasons to keep her in the dark don't guarantee her well being, I think it's iffy to suggest that Conan's choice is completely right.

Fact is, Ran's safety can't really be guaranteed either way, so using it to justify the deception as the only correct choice is questionable.

And as KO brings up, Agasa and Heiji openly treat him in a manner that should arouse suspicion, not to mention that unlike the early stories where he had to heavily rely on the murder solving dummies, he's openly been acting like high school teenager Shinichi Kudo and solving cases in a more direct fashion. Especially after the Detective Boys voiced their annoyance with him acting like a dumb kid.

So yeah, if Heiji, Agasa and his own slip ups haven't screwed them over, then how would Ran's possible screw ups be any more severe?

I mean to each his own and all, but if one is going to suggest that Ran coming into the fold is more trouble than it's worth, then it would be beneficial to produce reasons that lack double standards that have been point out.

And yeah I should have been backing up your other comments as well KO.

"Why should we forget her helping Haibara? Or her helping Sonoko? Or her jumping out of a window to chase that one Detective with the glasses (the case where Akemi dies)?
Or her being calm and keeping her cool while being taken hostage together with Sera (and Shinichi on the phone). See, another example found. Shinichi is nearby and she was still able to act cool and use her karate. She didn't stare into the clouds thinking: "OMG it's SHINICHI on the PHONE!" like you seem to imply Ran would do, because she's in love with Shinichi.

You argument here is simply: "I don't think Ran did anything! She's a bad character! Who cares if there is evidence that she did something! Let's forget that completely!"
Which is not an argument. It's your biased opinion."

Yeah the fact that she has shown a level head in those situations really should invalidate the idea of her being a typical teenager. And if one believes their stance to be true, they shouldn't have to ignore inconvenient details or handwave them to come off as being right.

Speaking of, didn't Haibara break down and cry after the second case in her debut appearance?

"Ran (and other characters) would seem more useful if not for Conan's super hero image and the status quo.
A lot of "flaws" people hate about Ran is mainly resulting because of that. People wouldn't hate her (or hate her less) if this would change."

To a degree, yes, but I think it also has to do with her having more appearances that many of the other long time cast members without the proportionate amount of contributions to justify her appearances.

In contrast, the Detective Boys actually tend to be more active in their appearances whether it's to help or unintentionally hinder Conan, plus hanging out with them aids in him trying to act like a typical kid. Plus, even with the additional appearances they make in the anime, their screentime is arguably less than Ran's screentime.


But more and more, it seems like the decision is based on the notion that she's the love interest. She doesn't need to do anything more than look pretty and be offered to the hero for his troubles.

I mean there may or may not be some valid reasons in universe to keep up the secret, but I think what this discussion needs is to debate on whether there's any good reason from a creative standpoint to do so.

[Silverbullet96]

Shinichi, Heiji, Kaito KID, Hakuba and Sera are also only high school teenagers. Shinichi, Hakuba and KID(?) doesn't even do martial arts.

Let me add the word 'average'. She's just an average high school girl, who definitely is braver & stronger than your average teenager, but her mind doesn't really go past her age. There's something called as 'maturity', and before you bombard me with how Ran is mature cause she is able to stay strong and wait for Shinichi for so long, that's a whole different thing and doesn't say too much about how she would mentally deal with something as dangerous as BO.

How is that different? Why is Shinichi, who can only kick a ball in dangerous situations, better at coping immediate dangerous situations than Ran?
Your statement doesn't make sense.

I'm talking mentally again. She would be way too nervous and scared and confused if she was involved in half of the sh*t that is going on. She has lived a perfect & happy life, I cannot see her being as cool and calm overall against BO as the other people who are involved right now. She's not as smart & sharp or intelligent to know what to do or how to react next.

Why should we forget her helping Haibara? Or her helping Sonoko? Or her jumping out of a window to chase that one Detective with the glasses (the case where Akemi dies)?
Or her being calm and keeping her cool while being taken hostage together with Sera (and Shinichi on the phone). See, another example found. Shinichi is nearby and she was still able to act cool and use her karate. She didn't stare into the clouds thinking: "OMG it's SHINICHI on the PHONE!" like you seem to imply Ran would do, because she's in love with Shinichi.

You argument here is simply: "I don't think Ran did anything! She's a bad character! Who cares if there is evidence that she did something! Let's forget that completely!"
Which is not an argument. It's your biased opinion.

I didn't actually mean that when I said the quote, I said she wouldn't know how to cope with the danger of BO herself, so forget about helping Haibara through it. Well, the hostage situation is nowhere near as as complicated as BO, and that was just a one-time case which would just go if she dealt with it, BO sticks with you and is obviously more dangerous. And she probably felt much safer because Shinichi was on the phone, if he wasn't then the only thing she can do is to use Karate and hope it works.

Your previous statement was false. So there is no support in your claim that Ran can't be "like a champ" in front of the BO when Jodie can do it.
And again, Ran showed multiple times that she can be "like a champ" in dangerous situations.
Another example of her heroism: She ran into a burning house to save someone. Conan supported her with his knowledge, so that she would use a helmet while running into the house. That way Ran was in less danger of getting her hair burned.
This shows that they together, are way better at solving problems than them being on their own. Another reason why Ran would be a big help against the BO if she would know his secret.

And another evidence why she's mentally strong or a strong character in general.
People around her said she's a strong person. For example Sera, who is a rather strong character herself. Sera said it so herself. Conan was then wondering, if she meant the Karate that Ran can do. But it was clear that she meant that Ran is mentally strong too. (that was during the case where Sera, Ran and Kogoro get taken hostage in order to solve a case. Manga Chapter 771+)

Why do you think Ran is as capable of Jodie exactly ? Yes, Ran is a brave girl and has had her heroic moments, but as I said before, her mind doesn't go past her age, she has her limits. She isn't mentally smart or mature enough or even ready to deal with that kind of threat at pretty much all times. It takes guts to run into a burning house, not brains, it doesn't show how Conan and her together are better at solving problems. The team of Heiji & Conan, or especially Shuichi and Conan, that's an example of being able to solve their problems better when together.

Indeed. Yeah, no, you don't show any evidence to support your opinion. (I can't call it a theory, sorry. You don't show evidence or facts that you can support your theory with. So it's just an opinion of yours.)

You have evidence. If you know Ran you'd know that she isn't ready or capable of dealing with that kind of danger, at least yet. It's like I said, it pretty much boils down to whether you think Ran is mature and capable enough to hang with the likes of Akai, Gin, Vermouth, Ano Kata those kind of people. She hasn't dealt with anything like this before and she isn't quite capable of it yet.

Like I already said before. There was a time where Ran was thinking that Conan is Shinichi. She barely acted any different. It was Conan who noticed the slight difference. And that was also because she didn't want to bath with Conan anymore. Outsiders, especially if they didn't know how they acted before, wouldn't notice anything.

She did act different, they only showed a few moments really, like their romantic moment on a ship case a few episodes before.

There is also Agasa who acts differently to Conan (and Haibara) than to the DBs. So he's a potential risk already. Heiji is doing the same. Both of them are calling him Shinichi or Kudo.

For Ran it's different cause her life pretty much revolves around Shinichi, he's her love interest. She'd act different like she has done in the past.

Conan and Haibara also talk about the BO openly on the street! The DB were also curious what they were talking about, since they were able to hear what they said, even tho they walked a bit further in front.

So yeah, Conan is almost blowing his cover himself. A lot.
Adding Ran, who will certainly be able to address Conan as Conan in the open, isn't making much difference to the risk of revealing his identity.
And like Antiyonder pointed out with his cons and pros, the pros are weighting more than the cons.

Conan and Haibara don't talk about it in a way that would totally give them away. And the DB are just kids that wouldn't look too much into it.

P.S.: She cried after she finished her deduction show.
Even the great detectives show some feelings when they aren't currently deducting or solving a case. Like Conan being melancholy after the Moonlight Sonata case, because he wasn't able to prevent the suicide. You can even see Akai on the roof looking at the last message he got from Akemi. And this while the BO is right at the front door.
So, no, you're wrong again. It's nothing bad to show their feeling after the case. Or why would it be bad for Ran while the other "great" character are allowed to do it?

Ok. I was just pointing it out.

[Kleene Onigiri]

@Antiyonder: Ah! I see!
It sounded a bit like you had a different view and wanted me to answer on that. So I was wondering why, since we had almost the same views XD
But I also agree with you mostly

@silver:
Again you don't show any evidence or prove or even a hint of a case that would show your opinion. It's pointless for me to answer you fully because of that. Since you will only say "No, I don't think so."
So I'm just going to answer a few of your points.

I'm talking mentally again. She would be way too nervous and scared and confused if she was involved in half of the sh*t that is going on. She has lived a perfect & happy life, I cannot see her being as cool and calm overall against BO as the other people who are involved right now. She's not as smart & sharp or intelligent to know what to do or how to react next.

Look here now. I mentioned tons of cases where Ran isn't scared of a human being. As long as Gin doesn't disguise as a ghost, Ran will be able to act accordingly and swiftly.

Sidenote, not a story spoiler->

Spoiler:

That would be hilarious tho! XD Imagine:
Gin: So.. what's that girls weakness?
Vodka: It seems she's scared of Ghosts?
Gin: Alright!
*Vodka disguises himself as a Zombie and Gin disguises himself as that "out of the Well"-Girl*

And this means also mentally and physically.
You on the other hand, don't show any proof that she would be too nervous in a dangerous situation. Heck, I can even help you out with that.
The only time she was scared of a person was the first time she met Akai. But there she was younger and also in a place she's not used to. She also was mentally down because that one culprit said it's her fault she managed to kill that one guy. Plus there was a serial murderer on the loose. (And I think she had fewer?)
BUT, then she met the serial killer (Vermouth) and was able to save Vermouth. If Vermouth would have attacked her, she would probably be able to fend off Vermouth with her Karate.

So if Ran is mentally hurt, in a different place she's not used to, has a fewer and is worried about Shinichi that there is a serial killer, she could be scared IN THE PAST. Now she showed often that she reacts helpful in a dire situation. And she got older too (compared to the first time she met Akai and Vermouth).
So there is her showing that she can handle a dangerous situation VS. ONE time being scared when she was younger...obviously her being able to handle dangerous situations is winning.

Also, she didn't lead a happy life like you pretend she did. It wasn't as bad as Haibaras. But her parents live separately and she had to manage the household. She also had to worry about money from when she was small. So that made her mature. She also takes responsibilities seriously and cares for other people.
At some point Ran was studying and at another time she was also taking a test. It was shown that she's able to learn good and seems to have good grades. Sometimes Conan ask her for Information too (like in the Moonlight case, he ask her for the music notes I think)
She might not be as sharp as Shinichi and Heiji, but they WANT to be detectives. She doesn't. So she's not really trying to deduct everything on her own.

So as you see, she's mature and smart. She's definitely not some little spoiled child and also not dumb as you want us to believe.

[Silverbullet96]

I wonder why people bring up the "her parents are seperated" card when discussing how hard her life is. Her parents are just being a bunch of Tsunderes, its nothing serious.
You keep giving past examples of her not being scared of people, but I don't see how that tells us she won't be scared of an even more dangerous group of people.
She has screamed like your average woman countless times when she has seen a dead body.
Well, whatever. This discussion isn't really going anywhere so I'm out.

[Antiyonder]

Let me add the word 'average'. She's just an average high school girl, who definitely is braver & stronger than your average teenager, but her mind doesn't really go past her age. There's something called as 'maturity', and before you bombard me with how Ran is mature cause she is able to stay strong and wait for Shinichi for so long, that's a whole different thing and doesn't say too much about how she would mentally deal with something as dangerous as BO.

See, unlike you, I'm not afraid to admit that I can be wrong and concede the point underlined.

In contrast, your refusal to at least consider some of our points would suggest that you're concern with having the last word, even to the point of ignoring certain facts or dismissing them.

Heck, while I'm convinced that her finding out could work out in Conan's favor, I'm actually able to at least humor the possibility that it could end badly as well. But you seem to dismiss Ran as a lost cause without considering that she could show more strength in the long run.

You have evidence. If you know Ran you'd know that she isn't ready or capable of dealing with that kind of danger, at least yet. It's like I said, it pretty much boils down to whether you think Ran is mature and capable enough to hang with the likes of Akai, Gin, Vermouth, Ano Kata those kind of people. She hasn't dealt with anything like this before and she isn't quite capable of it yet.

It's a possibility that you're right, but at the end of the day. Is it a fact that telling Ran will work out positively? No. Me and KO claiming such is partially based on speculation.

But our speculation has some facts mixed in, where as you have yet to provide facts to support your speculations.

Like I already said before. There was a time where Ran was thinking that Conan is Shinichi. She barely acted any different. It was Conan who noticed the slight difference. And that was also because she didn't want to bath with Conan anymore. Outsiders, especially if they didn't know how they acted before, wouldn't notice anything.

She did act different, they only showed a few moments really, like their romantic moment on a ship case a few episodes before.

Yet, Ran and cast still lives. For all the claim that we're hypocritically relying on what ifs to get through a debate, you tend to leave out actual facts which however small tend to prove the opposite of your claim.

There is also Agasa who acts differently to Conan (and Haibara) than to the DBs. So he's a potential risk already. Heiji is doing the same. Both of them are calling him Shinichi or Kudo.

For Ran it's different cause her life pretty much revolves around Shinichi, he's her love interest. She'd act different like she has done in the past.

Yet her different behavior hasn't caused a game over. Maybe it's not so much that you dislike Ran, but believe that her role as a love interest means that she just needs to appear on screen and look pretty.

Conan and Haibara don't talk about it in a way that would totally give them away. And the DB are just kids that wouldn't look too much into it.

Except that your reasoning to keep Ran in the dark is "better safe than sorry" correct?

Then shouldn't Conan and Haibara keep their BO talk behind curtain if only for the sake of playing it safe?

P.S.: She cried after she finished her deduction show.
Even the great detectives show some feelings when they aren't currently deducting or solving a case. Like Conan being melancholy after the Moonlight Sonata case, because he wasn't able to prevent the suicide. You can even see Akai on the roof looking at the last message he got from Akemi. And this while the BO is right at the front door.
So, no, you're wrong again. It's nothing bad to show their feeling after the case. Or why would it be bad for Ran while the other "great" character are allowed to do it?

Ok. I was just pointing it out.

While leaving out a notable detail that KO and I pointed out.

[Kudo Shinchi]

Antiyonder, I agree with most of what you're saying about this topic, but there are two points you keep pushing that I take issue with.

But more and more, it seems like the decision is based on the notion that she's the love interest. She doesn't need to do anything more than look pretty and be offered to the hero for his troubles.

I don't see where you're getting this idea from. You keep repeating it, but I don't see how Gosho's treatment of Ran in the manga reflects this. If anything, Ran is superior to most shounen love interests in that she has a distinct personality, with real weaknesses, and that she has been involved in the story in a manner that does not revolve around its protagonist before. Just look at the Vermouth arc, when the writing of Ran's character was at its best. She was part of a web involving Akai, Haibara, and Akemi that had almost nothing to do with Conan, before her own story that arc reached its climactic conclusion with her rescue of Haibara. Yeah, she's not as active anymore, and the way Gosho has written her in the Bourbon arc hasn't been as great, but the fact that he allowed her so much earlier in the series shows to me that the reason Ran is less than stellar now is simply the matter of the preservation of the status quo, which has become grating due to the length of the show. While I agree Ran finding out needs to happen, we should understand that that's a major decision that Gosho may not be prepared to make yet, simply becaue of the profound way it will impact the character dynamics of the series, and these repercussions will also be felt in the anime-original episodes, specials, and movies. As such, for the time being Ran is sort of "on hold" until the right time, kind of like how Haibara was "on hold" throughout the Kir arc before she became more relevant again in the Bourbon arc, because the plot revolved around something that concerned her.

And really, Ran has had too many great character moments (some in the Bourbon arc, in fact) for me to support this idea.

Mainly in that he's not allowed to be shown in a less than favorable manner

This is a myth that really needs to go. Conan may come across as a little more "right" these days, but Gosho definitely isn't afraid to criticize him, whether explicitly through the characters or implicitly through the events of the narrative. The past few years especially have seen Conan screw-up nearly every step of the way. He failed to detect Bourbon at the shrine, didn't realize his mistake until Takagi practically pointed it out to him, he was played like a fiddle by Bourbon at the Haido City Hospital, and he was straight-up outsmarted by the agent in the case directly preceding the Scarlet Showdown. Conan doesn't come out of that looking particularly well, especially since it wasn't just one isolated faulire, but a string of them. Haibara routinely mocks him for his more idiotic tendencies, and so on.

And speaking of that last point...I just want to quote some of the things that Haibara thinks to herself in regards to Conan in a very important episode that is rarely mentioned in these sort of discussions: episode 270. Keep in mind as you read these that, as kkslider pointed out, Haibara is Gosho's voice in the manga.

Without considering the consequences, you pursue truth and justice. The burdens you bear are yours alone because you feel obligated to protect those around you. Your dangerous, boy-like personality is so painfully and achingly intriguing. I wonder if you realize that that pure scent of yours is strangling me, her [Ran], and yourself with loneliness, uncertainty, and vulnerability.

That's right...flowers are fragile and ephemeral. No matter how well you protect them from the wind or the rain, even if there is a fence around them, the flowers will die without sunlight. A fence has no chance against a storm. Are you sure you're aware of that, Kudo-kun?

I think the quotes speak for themselves. You could argue that the episode was so long ago that Gosho has forgotten, but that claim doesn't really hold water in the face of Gosho's demonstrated long-term memory. Just look at the aftermath of the London case a few years ago, when Haibara specifically brought up this case. Mystery Train provides another example: Elena's tapes were brought up there, despite not having been mentioned for literally around 350 episodes. All of the above is why I'm pretty sure that when the times comes for Ran to find out, Conan will be called out on his mishandling of the situation. He isn't right now because the story is concerned with other things. It's as simple as that, really.

[kkslider5552000]

as kkkslider pointed out

I appreciate you quoting me but please be careful when typing. :V

[Kudo Shinchi]

as kkkslider pointed out

I appreciate you quoting me but please be careful when typing. :V

Duly noted, and fixed

[Antiyonder]

I don't see where you're getting this idea from. You keep repeating it, but I don't see how Gosho's treatment of Ran in the manga reflects this. If anything, Ran is superior to most shounen love interests in that she has a distinct personality, with real weaknesses, and that she has been involved in the story in a manner that does not revolve around its protagonist before. Just look at the Vermouth arc, when the writing of Ran's character was at its best. She was part of a web involving Akai, Haibara, and Akemi that had almost nothing to do with Conan, before her own story that arc reached its climactic conclusion with her rescue of Haibara. Yeah, she's not as active anymore, and the way Gosho has written her in the Bourbon arc hasn't been as great, but the fact that he allowed her so much earlier in the series shows to me that the reason Ran is less than stellar now is simply the matter of the preservation of the status quo, which has become grating due to the length of the show. While I agree Ran finding out needs to happen, we should understand that that's a major decision that Gosho may not be prepared to make yet, simply becaue of the profound way it will impact the character dynamics of the series, and these repercussions will also be felt in the anime-original episodes, specials, and movies. As such, for the time being Ran is sort of "on hold" until the right time, kind of like how Haibara was "on hold" throughout the Kir arc before she became more relevant again in the Bourbon arc, because the plot revolved around something that concerned her.

Ran being on hold would be perfectly fine in a series that is much shorter. But in one which has 80 manga volumes and nearly 1,000 episodes, she would benefit with more constant contribution. Especially since Conan/Shinichi aside, she arguably has more screentime than any other regular.

Again, I point to the Detective Boys as a counter example. They receive less panel/screen time than Ran, but a more consistently active whether they help out or cause trouble.

Or to point out some fairness to another love interest from a different series. Keiko Yukimura from Yu Yu Hakusho is a prominent character who serves her share of purposes in the narrative. Far from perfect, but here are some factors which contrast with Ran as of current:
1. The series was much shorter in at best having 20 volumes and only slightly more than 100 episodes. So any shortcoming she might have isn't even close to Ran's decay.

2. You defense of Ran amounts to her being on hold. In fairness that in and of itself isn't a problem.

The problem is that the set up of the series (being Conan's legal guardian and home mate) means that her number of appearances without plot or episodic contribution is higher than the number of times she actually contributes to either the ongoing plot and/or episodic story.

In contrast, Keiko while she's had a healthy number of appearances, could actually have reduced screentime until the writer is ready to make use of her. And for reasons given, I think DC could follow in that suit by having Conan moving out on a temporary basis given that he has other ways to get a lead on the organization.


That said, while it's certainly cool that Haibara thinks more of Ran than she did early on, the fact is it's kind of hypocritical for her to preach about him underestimating Ran, while still insisting on keeping her in the dark.

In fairness, it's not the place of Heiji, Agasa, Yukiko, Yusaku, Vermouth, Eisuke or Akai to tell Ran the truth, but surely Haibara or anyone in that category could at least voice the logical fallicies that we've presented her such as:
1. How keeping in close proximity to Ran does more to risk her safety than telling her the truth does (i.e. Episode 425). After all, Gin and Vodka might avoid some unnecessary killings, but will still go after targets who as far as they know won't pose a threat (i.e. Gin nearly offing Conan).

2. Keeping Ran in the dark can just as easily jeopardize their secret and objectives as much as her knowing it could such as in Episodes 522-523 where several folks could have witnessed him transforming back into Conan and doing more certain damage, whereas telling Ran is at best a risk that may work out for them.


Sure, Conan's driven by a desire to protect Ran and to keep the secret from spilling out, but these particular points arguably do more to convince Conan how futile his current approach is than to allude to some inner strength on Ran's part.


That said, believe me, I'd like to trust that Gosho has a reason for this.

But when you look at the scenario from a behind the scenes/creative, well, myself and other posters have arguably demonstrate why this change would not only be beneficial, but that said demonstrations arguably prove that it should have happened much sooner, like maybe not too long after the London arc.