Christcc9 wrote:Now we're talking a very interesting topic. Who cares about Ran
The title of the thread very clearly states this thread is about Ran. If you don't care about this character or you're interested to talk about something else, feel free to make a thread for a topic you're interested to discuss or interests you more, or join a discussion in an already existing thread.
I also can't help but sense some "character-bashing" on your part. Please refrain from doing so.
Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Vermouth is relying on Conan/Shinichi to bring down the BO. She calls him silver bullet because of that.
Haibara hides behind Conan whenever there is someone suspicious. She's also mainly interacting with Conan. The other few other persons she interacts with are the DBs and Agasa and very few times Okiya. (imo that makes her pretty boring in that regard)
Ran at least talks with other people @_@
Spoiler:
What fails to persuade me to believe that Vermouth is on Conan's side is that she is not walking into a police station and confess what the BO is all about. If she's that popular & rich & skilled, there should be no reason to stop her from being a whistle-blower. She can well hide herself, or just simply give more information to Conan/Shuichi/FBI who can easily bring down the BO if sufficient info is given.
Spoiler:
Perhaps Vermouth just cannot herself bring the BO down or help anybody to bring it down. We know that she's blackmailed by at least one person (maybe there are more of them), and is super pretty close to the inner ring of power. Perhaps she cannot help to bring down the BO because her own life depends whether the BO exists or not. After all she's not aging. Maybe that's a permanent effect, or maybe once in a while she must take drugs, or visit a "forever-young" chamber that is hidden somewhere in the BO original hideout.
I'm pretty sure she has her own reasons why she wants to see the BO destroyed, but without her involvement.
Spoiler:
Not sure why we talk in spoilers now XD But to be safe I also use spoilers then.
Also this sounds as if it's going off topic. But I think this still fits the topic "Why do people dislike Ran" in a way, because some think she depends on Conan/shinichi too much, while my argument was that everyone in DC Universe depends on him. So I'll answer to that topic again and hope that's ok :3
I agree with Nemomon on that. I don't think Vermouth can simply go to the police and tell them: "Hey guys, I'm from an evil organization. Please arrest those people and me." First of, she need evidence. She can turn herself in and maybe get some other organization members with her, but that's it. She won't be able to get the boss down and especially not the whole organization. They are like the mafia, they try to get others do the work while the boss profits and is being safe from the police.
Also, if Vermouth would get Takagi involved or any other police officers, they would probably get taken down immediately or they would hide their trails and they wouldn't be able to find any evidence on the whole BO.
Haibara, who was being targeted by the BO as a traitor, didn't go to the police either, even tho she certainly wants to get the BO taken down for sure. During the London case it was also said that Shinichi/Conan would probably be found by the BO if he uses his own passport to fly out of Japan. This indicates that the BO most likely infiltrated the Japanese officials, like police, traffic etc.
So it's so simple to get the BO down by just telling the officials about them.
Keyhole drawn by Yuri Iwamoto <3
Spoiler: Secret Santa gift from Commi-Ninja <3
A Black Organization Christmas Carol (need to fix the link)
Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Vermouth is relying on Conan/Shinichi to bring down the BO. She calls him silver bullet because of that.
Haibara hides behind Conan whenever there is someone suspicious. She's also mainly interacting with Conan. The other few other persons she interacts with are the DBs and Agasa and very few times Okiya. (imo that makes her pretty boring in that regard)
Ran at least talks with other people @_@
Spoiler:
What fails to persuade me to believe that Vermouth is on Conan's side is that she is not walking into a police station and confess what the BO is all about. If she's that popular & rich & skilled, there should be no reason to stop her from being a whistle-blower. She can well hide herself, or just simply give more information to Conan/Shuichi/FBI who can easily bring down the BO if sufficient info is given.
Spoiler:
Perhaps Vermouth just cannot herself bring the BO down or help anybody to bring it down. We know that she's blackmailed by at least one person (maybe there are more of them), and is super pretty close to the inner ring of power. Perhaps she cannot help to bring down the BO because her own life depends whether the BO exists or not. After all she's not aging. Maybe that's a permanent effect, or maybe once in a while she must take drugs, or visit a "forever-young" chamber that is hidden somewhere in the BO original hideout.
I'm pretty sure she has her own reasons why she wants to see the BO destroyed, but without her involvement.
Spoiler:
Not sure why we talk in spoilers now XD But to be safe I also use spoilers then.
Also this sounds as if it's going off topic. But I think this still fits the topic "Why do people dislike Ran" in a way, because some think she depends on Conan/shinichi too much, while my argument was that everyone in DC Universe depends on him. So I'll answer to that topic again and hope that's ok :3
I agree with Nemomon on that. I don't think Vermouth can simply go to the police and tell them: "Hey guys, I'm from an evil organization. Please arrest those people and me." First of, she need evidence. She can turn herself in and maybe get some other organization members with her, but that's it. She won't be able to get the boss down and especially not the whole organization. They are like the mafia, they try to get others do the work while the boss profits and is being safe from the police.
Also, if Vermouth would get Takagi involved or any other police officers, they would probably get taken down immediately or they would hide their trails and they wouldn't be able to find any evidence on the whole BO.
Haibara, who was being targeted by the BO as a traitor, didn't go to the police either, even tho she certainly wants to get the BO taken down for sure. During the London case it was also said that Shinichi/Conan would probably be found by the BO if he uses his own passport to fly out of Japan. This indicates that the BO most likely infiltrated the Japanese officials, like police, traffic etc.
So it's so simple to get the BO down by just telling the officials about them.
Spoiler:
Perhaps indeed that few post should be moved to a new topic, but since neither of us can do that...
And I agree with Kleene. The BO is not a small organization. If it were it wouldn't be on radar of FBI, CIA, Japanese secret police and probably MI6. The BO is really a large organization, and Vermouth probably wouldn't be able to hurt it just by turning herself in to the police.
Remember Pisco? He was old member of the BO, and one of them that had a bigger knowlegde of what's going on inside the BO. Yet he was killed just because of a single photo. The BO didn't even try to cover him by for example making him a face surgery or moving elsewhere. They just ordered to kill him. They even didn't care that he's a rich person, and they might lost one of the money sources.
Vermouth knows that if she would go to the police, she probably would not see the next morning anymore. Plus, it would be hard to escape from a prison even for her.
===
Though, a side note is how according to her Conan could bring the BO down...
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
I enjoyed reading this forum so much. I always love reading controversial important and intelligent thoughts about DC. I'm actually a fan of Ran's. I love so many things about her. But it is true that she has some faults. And the worst being what she did in the tori man mugging case. As for the sexism, I agree with this
bash7353 wrote:
I don't believe you can somehow offset portraying characters in a sexist way by just also having strong female characters as well - no matter how many there are or how strong they are.
Just because they're strong, doesn't mean sexism isn't taking place there. At first I didn't notice it. I thought there's no sexism because they're strong female characters. But I was wrong. I really hope Gosho does let Ran figure out Conan's real identity before the end. I really do. And I hope her character builds even more, because she honestly has a lot of great qualities and a lot of potential.
TanteiSa wrote:Just because they're strong, doesn't mean sexism isn't taking place there.
Agreed, and this goes for whether they're physically, emotionally, or psychologically strong. Even if they aren't strong in these aspects, their gender should not exclusively determine the path of their character. Same thing goes for male characters, though I've found that the topic of strong male characters doesn't come up very often.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Same thing goes for male characters, though I've found that the topic of strong male characters doesn't come up very often.
Probably because male characters are always depicted as strong. It's the norm. It's how they "should" be in the eyes of all sexists.
You're right, and we all are. But one thing is for sure, the sexism wasn't done on purpose and that gives me some comfort. And maybe Gosho or one of his assistants will notice the fans' thoughts on Ran's character/role in the story and fix it where he went wrong.
TanteiSa wrote:But it is true that she has some faults. And the worst being what she did in the tori man mugging case.
I don't remember, which episode is it? Is it the one where she thought she shouldn't fight and should act "feminine" even when being in danger, and then the criminal read her the "prophecy" which she had initially accidentally exchanged with Sonoko's one and, when he attacked her, she finally gave him a beating in the last moment?
TanteiSa wrote:But it is true that she has some faults. And the worst being what she did in the tori man mugging case.
I don't remember, which episode is it? Is it the one where she thought she shouldn't fight and should act "feminine" even when being in danger, and then the criminal read her the "prophecy" which she had initially accidentally exchanged with Sonoko's one and, when he attacked her, she finally gave him a beating in the last moment?
Yes, that's the one. It's the stupidest thing written in DC! First of all, Ran (and every woman out there for that matter) should be herself and not the woman the man she likes wants her to be. Second, SHE WAS ABOUT TO DIE! Who would listen to a prophecy if it condemns them? It doesn't make any sense! Was she even thinking straight back there? And finally, I don't think her karate affects her femininity in any way. Just because she can defend and look out for herself, doesn't make her any less feminine.
Ooops, it looks like I unintentionally changed the topic.
Ran certainly does some are-you-serious things, and that's why I'm not in fond of her. In addition, I'd like to see female characters in DC to less reveal their body :\ I'm not that happy to see them (Ex. Ep 762 or sth where Ran slips the towel and thus making Conan nosebleed) so often. Especially Ran, because I've seen her exposed body several times and I think that is backfiring on her. (Don't underrate yourself DC) <- Plz correct me if this is just a minor opinion
Christcc9 wrote:Now we're talking a very interesting topic. Who cares about Ran
The title of the thread very clearly states this thread is about Ran. If you don't care about this character or you're interested to talk about something else, feel free to make a thread for a topic you're interested to discuss or interests you more, or join a discussion in an already existing thread.
I also can't help but sense some "character-bashing" on your part. Please refrain from doing so.
Yes sir,
but I was just saying ironically - to point out we're digressing the main topic.
PS: I'm not a English native-speaker, sorry for my tone if it is curt
The impression of a woman may be more valuable than the conclusion of an analytical reasoner. Fear of death is worse than death itself.
Suhooo wrote:Ooops, it looks like I unintentionally changed the topic.
Ran certainly does some are-you-serious things, and that's why I'm not in fond of her. In addition, I'd like to see female characters in DC to less reveal their body :\ I'm not that happy to see them (Ex. Ep 762 or sth where Ran slips the towel and thus making Conan nosebleed) so often. Especially Ran, because I've seen her exposed body several times and I think that is backfiring on her. (Don't underrate yourself DC) <- Plz correct me if this is just a minor opinion
Detective Conan is the one revealing the female body too much? In anime?
...oh, you poor, naive child. You have no idea. Like, no idea at all.
No but seriously, and trust on this, Conan is pretty tame in this regard.
Suhooo wrote:Ooops, it looks like I unintentionally changed the topic.
Ran certainly does some are-you-serious things, and that's why I'm not in fond of her. In addition, I'd like to see female characters in DC to less reveal their body :\ I'm not that happy to see them (Ex. Ep 762 or sth where Ran slips the towel and thus making Conan nosebleed) so often. Especially Ran, because I've seen her exposed body several times and I think that is backfiring on her. (Don't underrate yourself DC) <- Plz correct me if this is just a minor opinion
Detective Conan is the one revealing the female body too much? In anime?
...oh, you poor, naive child. You have no idea. Like, no idea at all.
No but seriously, and trust on this, Conan is pretty tame in this regard.
Yep, seconded. Over the course of almost twenty years in the anime, we had the tame bathing scene from early on, four to five times of her in a bikini that I recall right now and that scene from the Red Woman case. I know anime which have way more than that in one episode alone...
And for the other girls I don't feel like that either tbh. We didn't get more than bikinis for other regular girls else than Ran iirc. Overall, the term "fanservice" is not a term I would adject to DC.
Lul my naivety has been revealed. I know some other animes have way more 'fanservice' scenes than DC but that's what makes those animes less praised. (Again, I think my opinion is just a minor.. considering that DC has really little of them, compared to the others.)
Antiyonder wrote:
Ok, time to plug "The Mystery of Conan Edogawa" into the discussion (which if you haven't read it yet, shame on you.), but in relation to what you're saying, the fanfic has Ran (who's hinting to Conan that she knows) relating how Sherlock Holmes once faked his death and allowed his own friend to believe him dead.
I just read this story and damn I sure didn't view shin ran relationship that way. It shows how much it hurts ran to find out that shinichi lied and manipulated her all this time. I kinda felt bad for her. Really great story
