Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

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ProfParanoia

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Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by ProfParanoia »

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So here's how this will work: 3 rounds of debate between me and pofa. We each make a opening statement, a response to the opening, and a closing statement, then people int he thread vote for which character they think wins. Keep in mind: you're only basing character knowledge based on what we bring up in the thread, so don't pick a character before you walk in, clear your mind and decide based on our arguments.

Loadouts
Moon Knight: Standard.
Constantine Drakon: Gun w/ 3 clips and 8 throwing knives.

Win by KO, capture, kill, removing the opponent from the fight, or general making it impossible for the other person to fight (ie. removing limbs).

Time travel murder, destroying Earth, or going into space and living longer naturally are not means of victory.

[url=http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2013 ... w_BOII.png]Location of the fight[/spoiler] No leaving that immediate area.

So with that, our opening statement will be up in a bit.
Last edited by ProfParanoia on February 27th, 2015, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by ProfParanoia »

Constantine Drakon.

Drakon is one of the best non-superhuman fighters in all of DC. He's seen as on the level of people like Cassandra Cain and Batman, maybe even the top three like Richard Dragon or Shiva. Despite his short tenure, he's completely proved himself as a powerhouse of martial arts in comics. His most notable moves comes from his total domination of the Arrow family.

[Speed]
Spoiler: vs Arsenal
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In this fight he's able to show his strength as he's holding out a metal wire, but most important is his speed. Arsenal is a good fighter, even able to keep up with the superhuman speed of Deathstroke in shorter bouts, but Constantine? Constantine is so fast that he threw a knife that he brandished, and Roy's eyes still couldn't follow it. He didn't know the knife was thrown until it cut him.
Spoiler: vs Ollie
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Here he can see the accuracy mixed with his icredible speed, as he puts the OG Green Arrow on the ropes by putting accurate suppressing fire down on hims from the top of a building across the street with a handgun.
Spoiler: vs Connor Hawke
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Here we see his speed in a defensive sense, as he's able to catch a flurry of close range arrows with his hands, and he does this so often and so effectively you can even read that Connor thinks Constantine could outspeed bullets. The tables only get turned because of a third party.
Spoiler: vs Connor and Speedy
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Here he does that same but against two separate flurries at the same time, catching all of the arrows (again, fired at close range) by their tips.

[skill]
Spoiler: vs Connor and Speedy
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And here we see his amazing skill as he dominates two martial arts heroes in hand to hand at once. He completely embarrasses Connor, one of the best fighters in DC.
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Re: Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by pofa »

Moon Knight/Marc Spector (for the purposes of this thread)

[General gore/blood/violence warning for the spoiler box scans]

Chicago-born son of a Jewish Rabbi, Marc Spector rebelled against his father’s philosophies and did pretty much the exact opposite of what he’d have wanted, training himself to peak physical condition and becoming first a Marine, then a mercenary for hire. Unfortunately, he ran afoul of an even crueler merc and got himself left for dead in an uncovered Egyptian temple. Khonshu, god of the moon, vengeance, and night travelers and the temple’s honored deity, offered him a deal: Become the living weapon of Khonshu’s will and Marc would get to keep his life. Marc accepted and was imbued with the power of the god Khonshu, acting as his fist in the mortal world and taking vengeance and protecting night travelers everywhere.

Marc combines being at peak physical human condition (classified as an Olympic-level athlete) with champion skills in boxing and several martial arts styles including Judo and Kung Fu.
Spoiler:
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Spoiler:
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Spoiler:
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His tidy fortune of blood money gives him access to all the weaponry he wants, and he is an expert in fighting with his preferred combo of truncheon, longer staff, and projectiles (including throwing darts/stars, boomerangs, and weaponized grappling line).

Khonshu gifts him with a share of his own supernatural powers, which wax and wane with the phases of the moon. Marc’s strength, endurance, and reflexes are all heightened to superhuman levels—he has night vision; at full moon, he can lift two tons; even at his weakest, during new moon, he can lift several hundred.

His heightened endurance allows him a raised ability to disregard his own pain and ignore normally debilitating injuries; he also has a minor healing factor if the moon is out and can shine on his wounds.
Spoiler:
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Again, if the moon is out, he can fade into shadowed places more than would normally be possible, concealing himself from enemies.

He is routinely shown dodging bullets and taking out buildings full of armed men on his own.
Spoiler:
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Spoiler:
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Marc’s body armor adds more to his strength; sometimes it includes adamantium, but even normally it’s crafted to be both durable and flexible, able to hold up more than even Marc can (it held up a falling building once). He also (recently) obtained an ancient Egyptian set of clothing that he can use to fight ghosts (and presumably other intangible creatures) with.
Spoiler:
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Marc’s rogues gallery is composed of other street levels; he’s bested the likes of Werewolf by Night
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Conqueror
Spoiler:
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Taskmaster (see above), Bullseye
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And his nemesis, Black Spectre.
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At the beginning of his career, he had no qualms with killing; nowadays he tries not to, but he has a tendency to rage out and severely mutilate his opponents even if he resists the urge to kill them. He likes to carve his victims with his crescent-shaped throwing darts, sometimes tattooing the crescent into their foreheads, sometimes hiding them in his hand until he’s fighting close-quarters and then stabbing, and at one point using them to cut the face off of a fellow mercenary.
Spoiler:
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Marc’s main weakness is his lack of regard for his own safety, a combination of his “take the hit for the greater good” boxing training and his possession/dissociative identity disorder putting him under a lot of mental strain and making him a bit prone to rage blackouts. However, this weakness also makes him quite dangerous, as he’ll just keep going even when gravely injured and is hard to neutralize without completely killing him (which has happened a few times; resurrection comes as a perk of being a god’s avatar).
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Re: Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by ProfParanoia »

Here's the thing about Marc, he's losing some of those fights (vs Werewolf) and usually involves both sides bludgeoning each-other until one falls. That's not what Drakon fights are like. He completely dominated Connor Hawke (a better fighter than Moon Knight) and in all of my posts he only time he got his was through outside intervention. Moon Knight can usually win through taking the hits and mowing forward, but that's not what's gonna happen here, he's gonna take hits and then completely fail to land shots on Constantine. Taskmaster is a fighter known for losing over kind of lame reasons, and the reason he gave for Moon Knight was that he copied MK's style and tried the taking shots rather than blocking approach, and if Taskmaster had done his usual predict and avoid it would have gone different (according to him).

Not only does MK's strats hurt him in this fight, he's never performed against people on Connor's level.
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Re: Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by pofa »

Speed:

Drakon is fast enough to catch arrows. I would repeat that Moon Knight is fast enough to dodge bullets, from multiple firers at once. Since they're fighting in a city, even if it's daytime if the moon's phase favors Marc there are plenty of shadows for him to use to his advantage--Drakon will have to be lucky to constantly hit what he can't quite see. (Even barring anything supernatural in play, Marc prefers to hide and strike, so he's good at it.)

Skill:

Both combatants are clearly skilled in throwing projectiles. Drakon throws fast; so does Marc, and Marc is notable for the strength with which he throws his weapons: remember, there is a lot of force behind his muscles. He wrestled a werewolf into submission (and later, a panther too). He throws that truncheon hard enough to dent metal and once broke it in literal half over a mobster's helmeted head. Marc also is noted for his accuracy with his crescent darts. He makes strategic wound-not-kill cuts with them as well as using them to cut ropes and wires from a distance.

Despite Drakon's obvious mastery of the martial arts, it might be more difficult than he thinks to get close enough to Marc to use them. If he uses his bullets, well, Marc is fast, too, and even up close, Marc knows what he's doing and is pretty durable (as shown by ignoring arrows and bullet wounds with Taskmaster and others).
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Re: Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by ProfParanoia »

pofa wrote:Speed:

Drakon is fast enough to catch arrows. I would repeat that Moon Knight is fast enough to dodge bullets, from multiple firers at once. Since they're fighting in a city, even if it's daytime if the moon's phase favors Marc there are plenty of shadows for him to use to his advantage--Drakon will have to be lucky to constantly hit what he can't quite see. (Even barring anything supernatural in play, Marc prefers to hide and strike, so he's good at it.)

Correction, Drakon could catch the tips of multiple arrows fired at the same time at close range and Moon Knight was enough to not get shot. Sorry but Green Arro also dodged shots fired at him and he was way outclassed by Drakon's speed. Plus Connor said he could use a gun and Drakon would just do the same thing. Also, Drakon's speed is offensive and not just air twisting (yeah, he really wasn't dodging anything, he was spinning in the air). You talk about him not being able to see Marc due to his powers, but Drakon is so fast Marc couldn't see him throw those knives in plain view. And the awareness it took for him to even be able to see the arrows moving at that speed, let alone having consistent specific catches means anytime that Moon Knight tries to hit and run, MK is the one who's gonna get hit.

Skill:

Both combatants are clearly skilled in throwing projectiles. Drakon throws fast; so does Marc, and Marc is notable for the strength with which he throws his weapons: remember, there is a lot of force behind his muscles. He wrestled a werewolf into submission (and later, a panther too). He throws that truncheon hard enough to dent metal and once broke it in literal half over a mobster's helmeted head. Marc also is noted for his accuracy with his crescent darts. He makes strategic wound-not-kill cuts with them as well as using them to cut ropes and wires from a distance.

Constantine has kicked down both wood and steel doors easily. And you don't get more fast and accurate with ranged weapons than a Green Arrow, and Constantine runs with multiple Arrows at the same time and still dominates.

Despite Drakon's obvious mastery of the martial arts, it might be more difficult than he thinks to get close enough to Marc to use them. If he uses his bullets, well, Marc is fast, too, and even up close, Marc knows what he's doing and is pretty durable (as shown by ignoring arrows and bullet wounds with Taskmaster and others).

Marc is fast but both he and taskmaster says he likes taking hits and is willing to do it, he's gonna soak the bullets and knives thinking it's gonna give him key hits, and then Constantine's gonna toss him around and waste his efforts. Constantine one handed a knife to slice across Roy's throat in the middle of the night, taking hits to the shoulder is one thing, a lost throat is a lost fight.
Spoiler: Connor vs Richard Dragon, the second best fighter in DC comics
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They run even.
Spoiler: Connor vs Bamboo Monkey, a guy that was able to win 2 vs 1 with Tim Drake and Dick
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Connor drops him.

Connor put up a decent fight against Shiva, the best fighter in DC comics. Connor defeated Silver Monkey, who's BM's superior. All people well above anyone that Moon Knight has handled, but his fights against Drakon?
Spoiler:
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Drakon humiliates him.

Marc's plan is a bad one for this opponent's style and he's fighting someone leagues above him in ability. Marc's got cool powers and skills, but he's gonna lose this fight.
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Re: Comic Fights: pofa/Moon Knight vsNoia/C. Drakon

Post by pofa »

[Marc actually does put down Werewolf by Night, but I can't find the relevant scans, so just take the above for the fact that he can wrestle a werewolf and not get shredded xd]

Marc has defeated masters, though I'll grant that other than possibly Bullseye and Taskmaster, he hasn't beaten anyone with as much in-universe respect as the Arrow Fam has in DC. His villains tend to be just his villains. But both the men in the first scans I posted were stated to be masters of their respective fighting styles, and he is a boxing champion.

I get what you're saying about Marc's strategy of "f*** it, power through" working against him in this fight, since Drakon is patient and precise in the scans you posted. I'm still not convinced, though, that Drakon is fast enough to avoid taking any of Marc's hits, or being bodily restrained by him and then pounded into submission by Marc's superior, building-shattering offensive power (even if Marc took heavy hits to achieve it).

However, the scans prove (and I realized in researching this) that Marc functions better in a melee than against a single combatant who's really focused. So given Drakon's skills, it's definitely not out of the question that he'd win. But, I also don't think it's a foregone conclusion because Marc is bringing serious force and skills of his own to the table. (Including those of a professional mercenary. If slow and steady is what needs to happen in this fight, Marc is capable of that too, though it's not his go-to method.)
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