what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

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David mason

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what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by David mason »

It's all in the title. What are the biggest missed opportunities in DC in your opinion ?
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SilverBullet-sama

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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by SilverBullet-sama »

Akai killing Gin/or paralyzing him and his crew by shooting at their legs.
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by Startold »

Not having let Haibara do anything really interesting in the Kir arc and the Bourbon arc. :p
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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This is a great topic.

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Case specific:
•Using Conan's two cellphones as part of the mystery for Akai's fake death (because that's definitely more elegant than using glue on fingers in my biased opinion).
•Started a fingerprint sub-arc linking Akai's fingerprints on Conan's cellphone to Ran wondering about Shinichi's fingerprints on Heiji's charm.
•One more case that would have connected Shinichi's first case plane flight murder and the New York case with the present events in the Vermouth arc via Sharon's handkerchief.

Alternate Character use:
•Araide. I think Gosho should have set up Araide's character so that he was available for use by Conan in later arcs. Specifically, I think Araide appearing as an info source in the hospital portion of Red vs. Black would have been a well positioned call back - Conan could have asked Araide to pull Eisuke's medical records for instance. It could have worked because Araide was shown to not be a passive character type in his intro case.
•Have Conan consult with allies and actually do some research rather than just know it all like he is a living Wikipedia and trivia repository. I don't mean the times where Conan asks Agasa to look up case files, I mean have Conan call Haibara to ask if a certain kind of drug overdose can cause Y symptoms that were observed in a victim before their death because Conan doesn't know that technical level of detail. One of Gosho's themes is that Shinichi trapped as Conan learns humility and how to work well with others. Being a one man show is counterproductive to the "Shinichi grows as a person by being Conan" theme. It would fit better with Gosho's goal to make Conan the intelligent type who knows how to leverage his resources to put all the mystery pieces together.
•Having Conan and Hakuba become rivals that stay rivals because they want to one up each other at Kid cases.

Stuff that isn't technically missed yet because it could still happen:
•Focus on non-teen non-romance conflict. Most of the drama focuses on the teen characters, leaving the adults and the children mostly under-used except for romance. Kogoro doesn't have any professional private detective rivals nor threats to the reputation of his office. Ayumi, Genta, and Mitsuhiko rarely interact with other kids st school, nor do they have adults concerned about their wellbeing, and they never decide they are bored of being detectives and leave the group for the latest fad. It's not like teens are the only things that sell either: the Sato and Mastuda arc is probably the most popular non-BO extended plot arcs.
• Underuse of Kogoro and Agasa in general.

General this probably could have been designed better:
Spoiler:
•The whole Bourbon arc in general and especially the arc finale. I have made some suggestions elsewhere about this.
•Masumi might as well not have been introduced until recently.
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David mason

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Re: This is a great topic.

Post by David mason »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Case specific:
•Using Conan's two cellphones as part of the mystery for Akai's fake death (because that's definitely more elegant than using glue on fingers in my biased opinion).
•Started a fingerprint sub-arc linking Akai's fingerprints on Conan's cellphone to Ran wondering about Shinichi's fingerprints on Heiji's charm.
•One more case that would have connected Shinichi's first case plane flight murder and the New York case with the present events in the Vermouth arc via Sharon's handkerchief.

Alternate Character use:
•Araide. I think Gosho should have set up Araide's character so that he was available for use by Conan in later arcs. Specifically, I think Araide appearing as an info source in the hospital portion of Red vs. Black would have been a well positioned call back - Conan could have asked Araide to pull Eisuke's medical records for instance. It could have worked because Araide was shown to not be a passive character type in his intro case.
•Have Conan consult with allies and actually do some research rather than just know it all like he is a living Wikipedia and trivia repository. I don't mean the times where Conan asks Agasa to look up case files, I mean have Conan call Haibara to ask if a certain kind of drug overdose can cause Y symptoms that were observed in a victim before their death because Conan doesn't know that technical level of detail. One of Gosho's themes is that Shinichi trapped as Conan learns humility and how to work well with others. Being a one man show is counterproductive to the "Shinichi grows as a person by being Conan" theme. It would fit better with Gosho's goal to make Conan the intelligent type who knows how to leverage his resources to put all the mystery pieces together.
•Having Conan and Hakuba become rivals that stay rivals because they want to one up each other at Kid cases.

Stuff that isn't technically missed yet because it could still happen:
•Focus on non-teen non-romance conflict. Most of the drama focuses on the teen characters, leaving the adults and the children mostly under-used except for romance. Kogoro doesn't have any professional private detective rivals nor threats to the reputation of his office. Ayumi, Genta, and Mitsuhiko rarely interact with other kids st school, nor do they have adults concerned about their wellbeing, and they never decide they are bored of being detectives and leave the group for the latest fad. It's not like teens are the only things that sell either: the Sato and Mastuda arc is probably the most popular non-BO extended plot arcs.
• Underuse of Kogoro and Agasa in general.

General this probably could have been designed better:
Spoiler:
•The whole Bourbon arc in general and especially the arc finale. I have made some suggestions elsewhere about this.
•Masumi might as well not have been introduced until recently.
this is a great list I agree with everything you said I'd add the underuse of heiji as an ally of conan when it comes to the BO plot (he technically only helped him twice). Also in my personnal opinion conan should've reveal his identity to ran at the end of the desperate revival arc. It was the perfect moment after all the build up during the arc.
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Re: This is a great topic.

Post by Jecka »

David mason wrote:I'd add the underuse of heiji as an ally of conan when it comes to the BO plot (he technically only helped him twice). Also in my personnal opinion conan should've reveal his identity to ran at the end of the desperate revival arc. It was the perfect moment after all the build up during the arc.
This ^
Seriously What's the point of knowing his real identity if all you're going to do is make running gags about how Heiji can't seem to keep a secret? :V
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Re: This is a great topic.

Post by rocketpropelledbear »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: Stuff that isn't technically missed yet because it could still happen:
•Focus on non-teen non-romance conflict. Most of the drama focuses on the teen characters, leaving the adults and the children mostly under-used except for romance. Kogoro doesn't have any professional private detective rivals nor threats to the reputation of his office. Ayumi, Genta, and Mitsuhiko rarely interact with other kids st school, nor do they have adults concerned about their wellbeing, and they never decide they are bored of being detectives and leave the group for the latest fad. It's not like teens are the only things that sell either: the Sato and Mastuda arc is probably the most popular non-BO extended plot arcs.
• Underuse of Kogoro and Agasa in general.
Unfortunately the lack of character development seems to be the norm(especially recently). Developments such as Ai no longer being so depressed, Conan and Heiji becoming best buddies etc all happened long ago.
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by AICHAN »

Yeah I agree that the lack of character development recently is one of the major issue in DC.everything is centered on cases and love relationships mixed with comedy.So it's sometimes hard to feel more attached to the characters.
I'm waiting for the Sera family arc and Akai/Ai confrontation to have some drama,and see more complex interactions...I really hope Gosho won't ruin that too
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by char13happy »

The chances to do something as good as Desperate Revival. I loved everything in the arc. How realistic the DB were despite the crisis, Ran's suspicion, Ai switching in for Conan, Heiji trying (and failing miserably) to cover for Shinichi, the restaurant scene and even the flashback regarding Yuusaku and Yukiko. I'm waiting for the time our dear mangaka gets his gear on in character development and tying up even a few strings so that it the series can actually feel like it's PROGRESSING in general.
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by kkslider5552000 »

Doing anything with Jirokichi. I honestly can't think of anything right now that feels like a definitive missed opportunity, at least not yet. Not that I know of. But I did think when Jirokichi started appearing regularly that it kinda ruined any interest I really had in the guy. He started as a character almost needing some sort of last victory in his very successful life, getting closer to death and having Kid as someone to beat. But now he's just that guy who appears in Kid cases. He's not awful but he basically just exists and he could've been more than that. The fact that he went from 2 appearances in like 4-5 years to every single Kid appearance only made that worse.

I could make the case for every Kid case he's written since then tbh. Even more than Ran, he is the main character I would prefer being written by someone else (actual new Magic Kaito chapters aside). Not because it's bad, but because it's pointless and isn't of high enough quality to make up for that anymore. But between him almost single handedly saving Movie 14 and creating Spider, I want to see what the anime team would do. (though to be fair, the awesome idea of tricking Ran to think Shinichi is Kid was not utilized nearly enough. I wish that was the entirety of movie 14.)
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

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kkslider5552000 wrote:(though to be fair, the awesome idea of tricking Ran to think Shinichi is Kid was not utilized nearly enough. I wish that was the entirety of movie 14.)
I personally didn't like that part at all. Or better to say, it would have been one thing to introduce funny moments based on mistaken identity, it's another thing to allow him to almost seduce Ran at the end using her love for Shinichi. If we take only the "canon" Kid in his manga, maybe he isn't that bad, but if we consider his appearances in DC and ESPECIALLY the ending of movie 14, then he acts really disgusting in my opinion. For playing with another person's feelings he would deserve a kick in the face with an iron boot.
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by David mason »

Honestly I may be known as a kid hater but the fact is this dude is arrogant over confident and like to play with the others emotions. Every case he's involved in is lame I even skipped some of them. I will give a chance to the next movie tho I hope it's good
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

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Mario2000 wrote:
kkslider5552000 wrote:(though to be fair, the awesome idea of tricking Ran to think Shinichi is Kid was not utilized nearly enough. I wish that was the entirety of movie 14.)
I personally didn't like that part at all. Or better to say, it would have been one thing to introduce funny moments based on mistaken identity, it's another thing to allow him to almost seduce Ran at the end using her love for Shinichi. If we take only the "canon" Kid in his manga, maybe he isn't that bad, but if we consider his appearances in DC and ESPECIALLY the ending of movie 14, then he acts really disgusting in my opinion. For playing with another person's feelings he would deserve a kick in the face with an iron boot.
You're implying this is a bad thing. TBH, while I like that Gosho has usually made Kid a very respectable character all things considered, I don't really put this over glorious and fun story elements. Kid as an asshole sounds fun. Maybe if the idealism of Shinichi and Ran's relationship actually felt valid anymore, I would care, but right now at least, I just want to see the ridiculous fun things happen. I live for ridiculous and fun twists and turns in my anime.
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by Mario2000 »

kkslider5552000 wrote:
Mario2000 wrote:
kkslider5552000 wrote:(though to be fair, the awesome idea of tricking Ran to think Shinichi is Kid was not utilized nearly enough. I wish that was the entirety of movie 14.)
I personally didn't like that part at all. Or better to say, it would have been one thing to introduce funny moments based on mistaken identity, it's another thing to allow him to almost seduce Ran at the end using her love for Shinichi. If we take only the "canon" Kid in his manga, maybe he isn't that bad, but if we consider his appearances in DC and ESPECIALLY the ending of movie 14, then he acts really disgusting in my opinion. For playing with another person's feelings he would deserve a kick in the face with an iron boot.
You're implying this is a bad thing. TBH, while I like that Gosho has usually made Kid a very respectable character all things considered, I don't really put this over glorious and fun story elements. Kid as an asshole sounds fun. Maybe if the idealism of Shinichi and Ran's relationship actually felt valid anymore, I would care, but right now at least, I just want to see the ridiculous fun things happen. I live for ridiculous and fun twists and turns in my anime.
I like funny moments too (especially with Genta, Yamamura and Kogoro). It's just Kid's seduction attempt in movie 14 doesn't seem funny to me. I was told Kid is funnier in his manga, what about his anime (I still haven't watched it, what about you?). I can agree the rest may be funny, even how he provokes Nakamori, it's just after the 100th Nakamori's failure I start feeling sorry for the poor dumb cop. But anyway, if Kid likes Aoko, could he at least tone down the taunting of Nakamori for her respect?
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Re: what do you think was the biggest missed opportunities from Gosho?

Post by rocketpropelledbear »

Mario2000 wrote:
kkslider5552000 wrote:
Mario2000 wrote:
kkslider5552000 wrote:(though to be fair, the awesome idea of tricking Ran to think Shinichi is Kid was not utilized nearly enough. I wish that was the entirety of movie 14.)
I personally didn't like that part at all. Or better to say, it would have been one thing to introduce funny moments based on mistaken identity, it's another thing to allow him to almost seduce Ran at the end using her love for Shinichi. If we take only the "canon" Kid in his manga, maybe he isn't that bad, but if we consider his appearances in DC and ESPECIALLY the ending of movie 14, then he acts really disgusting in my opinion. For playing with another person's feelings he would deserve a kick in the face with an iron boot.
You're implying this is a bad thing. TBH, while I like that Gosho has usually made Kid a very respectable character all things considered, I don't really put this over glorious and fun story elements. Kid as an asshole sounds fun. Maybe if the idealism of Shinichi and Ran's relationship actually felt valid anymore, I would care, but right now at least, I just want to see the ridiculous fun things happen. I live for ridiculous and fun twists and turns in my anime.
I like funny moments too (especially with Genta, Yamamura and Kogoro). It's just Kid's seduction attempt in movie 14 doesn't seem funny to me. I was told Kid is funnier in his manga, what about his anime (I still haven't watched it, what about you?). I can agree the rest may be funny, even how he provokes Nakamori, it's just after the 100th Nakamori's failure I start feeling sorry for the poor dumb cop. But anyway, if Kid likes Aoko, could he at least tone down the taunting of Nakamori for her respect?
Nah. Characters in Magic Kaito are meant to be sillier and/or larger than life compared to Detective Conan (and all the teenage detectives are already larger than life). So I don't really care if Kaito is a complete jerk who get away with flipping up girls' skirts, or that Nakamori-keibu is utterly pathetic and borderline useless, or the mere existence of the crazy witch girl Akako, all I care for are their funny interactions and KID's improbable heist. It is the same reason you don't question why Patrick from Spongebob Squarepants is a total idiot, because all the characters are who they are for the sake of comedy
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