Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Kudo Shinchi
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Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

WARNING: MAJOR MANGA SPOILERS BELOW!

So a few thoughts I had on recent plot developments. They aren't really anything new, but I did try to back them up with more evidence than what I've seen thus far...

What we know about the middle brother:
He recognizes Conan and is aware of his deductive abilities.
He is very intelligent.
He is younger than Akai.
He changed his surname.
He doesn't look like Akai or Sera.
Masumi doesn't know where he is, and he is in the middle of an "important job."

I think the identity of the middle brother is Amuro Tooru. I've done some thinking about it, and this is the only one which to me makes any sort of sense. The only other option is a new character, which would render this whole theory moot. But let's assume that the middle brother is someone introduced in the Bourbon arc. I highly doubt its Date or Morofushi; there haven't really been any hints that there's more to them than what they seem to be. The most obvious choice is Haneda, and that's exactly why I think it isn't him; it's just too perfectly convenient. Even the name is designed to remind us of Akai :"Shuukichi." Plus he has seen Conan's deduction skills, and is very smart like the middle brother. And the cherry on top is that he was introduced shortly before we found out about the middle brother's existence. It all looks like a huge red herring to me, just like Okiya being Bourbon was.

Now, it could be Amuro for a variety of reasons. First of all, he doesn't look anything like Akai or Sera, so that fits what we know about the middle brother. He's very intelligent, obviously. His surname isn't 'Sera', which is to be expected since the middle brother changed his name after graduating high school. I think its interesting that he refuses to tell Sera his location, which would be consistent with him being in the BO and not wanting to let her know. Finally, he knows Conan and is aware of his detective skills.

I think its very telling that until now Gosho has made sure that Sera and Amuro never meet each other. They're rarely both involved in the same case, and in the rare occasion that they are they never see each other. Why is it that Gosho insists on keeping them apart? In Detective Nocturne Amuro sees Sera, but she doesn't see him. His question, "Why here?" upon seeing her seems to indicate that he knows who Sera is. The fact that he showed up as Scar Akai in front of her in the following case strongly implies he is aware of her connection to Akai. This could all be explained as Amuro knowing Akai's family members since he would want to know info on his enemy, but what if it runs deeper than that?

On that note, Amuro's hatred for Akai is something to think about. Its obviously very personal, since Amuro is so convinced that that only he can kill Akai, and he strongly wants him dead. What is the motivation behind this hatred? Akai infiltrated the Black Organization only five years prior to the current timeline. What did he do to Bourbon to inspire such animosity? There was speculation before that it might have to do with Akemi, but Gosho confirmed in a very recent interview that it doesn't. So what's up? A deep personal betrayal by his brother about something could explain this, something that could have predated Akai's infiltration of the Organization. (This is pure speculation, but maybe it might have to do with Akai's dead father? Maybe he had to kill him for one reason or another, which led to Amuro hating him? Its been done before with Kir and her dad.)

Also, apparently Gosho refused to answer a question on whether or not Amuro's hair and skin color was natural. I find that quite intriguing. Why would Gosho avoid answering such a seemingly trivial question. It obviously points to the fact that this could be an important plot point. Maybe it hints to the fact that his original skin color and appearance was more similar to Akai and Sera?

I could see a few potential holes in this theory, but they could be explained away by a detailed flashback of Amuro's past. The one thing that bothers me most is this: Image

It seems to imply that the brother has fair skin, which obviously contradicts it being Amuro. Still, if Amuro was in disguise at the time or whatever...I don't know. This seems to be the biggest issue.

On the topic of the mystery child, I think its Sera's mother.

Obviously a lot of people have said this before. I don't have much evidence, but I think its important to note that Sera's mother has been mentioned several times since her early appearance, even though the mentions weren't exactly plot relevant... still, Sera has asked Ran before to confirm the truth of what she said about her mother, to which Ran thinks something along the lines "Have I even met her?"

We knows that Sera has met Conan in the past. Since Ran seems to remember things about Sera as well, it is highly likely that Shinichi and Ran were together when they met Sera in the past. Sera seems to be focusing on nudging Conan in the direction of investigating the mystery child, going so far as to show a picture of her to Conan deliberately. If she's doing that, than she probably expects Conan to be able to connect the dots about a certain something. If she wants Conan to recognize the person in the picture, it would only be possible if he had met her before. What if it was her mother whom Conan had seen before, now shrunken down to the form of a child? Also, if the child is shrunken, that would explain how Sera was able to figure out Conan's identity before even coming to Japan at all.

It also worth noting the child has Sera and Akai's eyes, as the mother would be expected to have since they look like her. Finally, according to translators Sera seems to be speaking to the child in a respectful manner, as if the child is older than her. Of course, for all this to work the child has to be a girl.

So yeah, just some stuff I was thinking about. Any rebuttals or counterarguments are welcome.
evilbit

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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by evilbit »

I like your theory; however another problem exists with Amuro Tooru being the middle brother other than the image you posted. We've seen since Masumi Sera admitted to Conan about receiving help from her middle brother on cases that she always has been contacting him by text/call after cases. However in both the manga and anime (Manga: 797-800, Anime: 672-674) at the end we see Masumi on the phone at the same time as Amuro Tooru. This was done to mask who bourbon was at the time, however we now know bourbon's identity, and that he was on the phone with vermouth at the same time Masumi was also communicating with someone. While yes we do not know who she called, if it follows the same pattern as illustrated over several cases it would be her middle brother.

Though in my opinion I feel there will be some other twist for bourbon but if he turns out to be another NOC, then I’ll have no choice but to believe the BO is just a secret club of American agents who cause trouble in Japan during their paid time off.
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Kudo Shinchi
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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

That crossed my mind as well. As you mentioned, though, there's the possibility that it wasn't her brother in this particular case. Practically anyone could have called her at that particular moment. Admittedly though, knowing what we do now, it is very possible it was her brother.

I should mentioned my confidence in this theory is nowhere near absolute; it has merit, but I wouldn't be too surprised if its incorrect.
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Shiromi

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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Shiromi »

If Amuro was the mysterious middle brother, why did Akai try to infiltrate the organization? Would being the brother of one of their operatives make it way too risky and easy to blow his cover?
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
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Kudo Shinchi
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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

That's something I think that could be explained away by a detailed flashback. Gosho could come up with numerous plot points or ideas that could make it make sense. Admittedly though, there isn't any evidence from the story at the present time that could offer a good explanation, I think.
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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Jd- »

My hope is that the middle brother isn't real. Think it over and you'll see what I mean.

This is the one part of the present story that feels the most tacked on. It's felt like something that Gosho introduced as a means of prolonging the arc (potentially to wait out Movie 18's release?), so I hope either there's a major twist involved or that it becomes a lot more meaningful really quickly.
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AICHAN
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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by AICHAN »

Jd- wrote:My hope is that the middle brother isn't real. Think it over and you'll see what I mean.

This is the one part of the present story that feels the most tacked on. It's felt like something that Gosho introduced as a means of prolonging the arc (potentially to wait out Movie 18's release?), so I hope either there's a major twist involved or that it becomes a lot more meaningful really quickly.
I feel the same...it's as if the middle brother wasn't planned from the beginning of this arc,but was just a way to wait for file 900 :( We don't even see Amuro or Okiya,while they are supposed to be the central part of this arc.I'm starting to miss Okiya cooking curry XDXD
Spoiler:
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"I've built a wall not to keep people out, but to see who loves me enough to climb over it."
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Jd- wrote:My hope is that the middle brother isn't real. Think it over and you'll see what I mean.

This is the one part of the present story that feels the most tacked on. It's felt like something that Gosho introduced as a means of prolonging the arc (potentially to wait out Movie 18's release?), so I hope either there's a major twist involved or that it becomes a lot more meaningful really quickly.
I think the middle brother is going to be real based on how Gosho talked about him in the recent interview. This mess is probably meant to make up for putting off the Okiya reveal because of the movie.
AICHAN wrote: I feel the same...it's as if the middle brother wasn't planned from the beginning of this arc,but was just a way to wait for file 900 :( We don't even see Amuro or Okiya,while they are supposed to be the central part of this arc.I'm starting to miss Okiya cooking curry XDXD
I miss Okiya cooking anything. Well, here is an Okiya cooking montage to tide everyone over:
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Also that one time Okiya wore an ascot to go stalking little girls grocery shopping.

Edit: Oh man, the German speakers have a whole article on Subaru's clothes. I'm jealous we don't have this in English.
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Shiromi

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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Shiromi »

File 900: Okiya's Fish Curry Recipes (Kaitou KID declined an appearance in this episode for some unknown reason...)
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
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AICHAN
Curry time!

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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by AICHAN »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: I miss Okiya cooking anything. Well, here is an Okiya cooking montage to tide everyone over:
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Also that one time Okiya wore an ascot to go stalking little girls grocery shopping.
Aww thank you Chekhov :-* you made my day
Seing Okiya with an apron is always great,especially when you think he's Akai in reality^^
Yeah apparently German people seems to like Okiya...That's a shame we don't have this in English!!!
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mangaluva wrote:
"I've built a wall not to keep people out, but to see who loves me enough to climb over it."
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Kudo Shinchi
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Re: Some brief thoughts on recent developments...

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

@Jd I actually think the brother being a red herring would be the worst solution IMO. In that case we would have wasted several months worth of chapters and plots on a character who doesn't even exist. I'd rather he be real but be explained in a plausible and reasonable manner.

I'm holding judgment on this whole middle brother thing and mystery child until the solution is given to us. As it is now it does seem somewhat tacked on, mostly because Gosho didn't extensively foreshadow it like he does with all his major plot developments, and so when we found out there is a second brother it kind of felt like it came out of left field. However, if the solution is done really well and turns out to be an important part of the story and not just an add-on, then it'll make up for it.

That's part of why I like the theory I posted here. Amuro being the middle brother would really make it significant, and the mystery child being Sera's shrunken mind could explain how Sera figured out that Conan was Shinichi, and it wouldn't feel out of place since Sera has been mentioning her mother since she first appeared. With all that said, I don't think we should be rushing to assume this is something Gosho came up with to stretch out the Bourbon arc. It seems possible due to Movie 18's coming release, but it also may have been something Gosho intended all along.

For example, the whole 'Sera has met Ran and Conan in the past' thing, which is part of the focus now, was foreshadowed heavily back when she first appeared and ever since. Sera's fang that Conan saw which reminded him of their past meeting has been around since before the Mystery Train, in the Cabin case, and was seen again in Blush Mermaid after the Mystery Train. It wasn't actually mentioned until the case where Conan asked Sera if they'd met before. The whole 'territory' thing that keeps coming up was first said somewhere in chapters 809-811, from Okiya to Haibara. He repeated the statement on the Mystery Train, Sera said it to Ran in another case, and now we have the Mystery Child using the term as well. Point is, Gosho was laying down a lot of things that would become important later before the Mystery Train case even took place; he's not making this up as he goes along.

If the middle brother and the mystery child end up being an integral part of Sera's past, her motivations, why she's some to Japan, and how she knows about Conan's situation etc., then I think it'll be likely that it was always part of Gosho's plan, and he didn't foreshadow it better because he couldn't reveal such things about Sera yet when she was still a Bourbon suspect. (And yes, I'm aware Sera herself was probably not part of Gosho's plan before he started the Bourbon arc. What I mean here is that when he designed Sera's character and her role in the story, he did it for everything about her, including her middle brother and the mystery child.)

I'll be optimistic.
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