Why do people dislike Ran?

[kkslider5552000]

Yeah, no thank you. Between my resistance to skipping parts of a series like this, plus my general apathy at this point towards even the best parts of the series, I don't care and it really doesn't matter. Also, I've been trying to avoid getting into more long runners for the time being, this wouldn't help.

[Shiromi]

Okay, so I may have joined this forum just because I read this thread. So yeah... Hi! I'm Shiromi. New fan of the series, and I love it a lot, but the way Ran has been treated lately really bothers me.

It comes down to the first few episodes, the episodes that hooked me, and led me to read the manga and get even more hooked. In the beginning, Ran is much more active and less idolized. She saves Shinichi's life from the kidnapper. She figures out right away that something is wrong, and that Shinichi has disappeared. And in episode 2, she shows Shinichi what a colossal jerk he's been. She started out being the strength of the duo - both morally and physically. Shinichi has plenty of brains, but his moral decisions are questionable. He clearly doesn't respect Ran's intelligence, and continually lies to her. Even if he didn't tell her that he's Conan, just telling her more of the situation, like "I was attacked after I left you at the theme park. The people who did it are really dangerous, and I need to stay under the radar until I take them down." but he can't manage even that. He needs her to be his moral center - but she doesn't need him. I think that a great story arch could have been Shinichi realizing that she doesn't need him, that it's the other way around. Coming to grips with his selfishness could bring in some great character development on his part, and it'd make Ran more of a character in her own right, not just "You must think this chick is sexy and the perfect girlfriend!"

So, much of the source of what bothers me is that their relationship has stagnated. Hopefully, after this London arch, things will start to move. Heat up or cool down... when there's something actually happening in their relationship, she acts more like her own character.

Except that relationship fortune-telling BS... screw that. Her being superstitious - fine. I know a very intelligent lady who believes she has a wolf spirit guiding her life and that fairies are real. Delusions happen to the smartest people. Her orientating her entire life around Shinichi? I don't buy that for a second. She's got the ambition to win karate championships and the strength of character to face down murderers, and take care of her useless father. If she had to choose between being in a romantic relationship with Shinichi and her own life (or protecting other people's lives), she wouldn't choose Shinichi. But, in twisted sexist logic, she only exists to be loved by Shinichi.

Since the London confession - there hasn't been very much from her point of view on it, other than she can't seem to give him an answer. I'd like to see a chapter from her POV, explaining her doubts. That'd be interesting, but I doubt we'll get it.

Spoiler: User 4869

I don't really agree with this, though:

[...]
Shinichi himself can come across as a sexist character as well. A major example of that would be the last Eisuke scene where Conan’s identity is revealed to him. Ignoring that Eisuke had known this for a while, Conan reveals who he really is because Eisuke wanted to confess to Ran and Conan refused to let that happen. It implies that Shinichi won’t allow her to deal with that pretty harmless situation. But the thing is that I’m still ok with that scene. Shinichi is jealous at best, sexist at worst but while not intentional I’m sure, that fits pretty well with Shinichi/Conan. [...]

The implication never was that Shinichi is sexist here, but rather Eisuke.

As someone who had problems with the scene, I'm going to point out that yes there are also implications of Eisuke being sexist but there are also those that Shinichi is being sexist. The nature of implications is that they change from person to person, and they all have merit. So if anyone at all saw implications of something in a scene, then that implication exists.

And it's funny because you actually sort of prove that there are implications of Shinichi being sexist in that scene.

The idea that he can confess to Ran only after getting Shinichi's permission, and if he's turned down he isn't allowed to tell her at all is one that Eisuke has come up with, not Shinichi. Conan just replied to the question the way that he saw fit. Granted, it would have been more progressive and at the same time would have protected his identity, if he'd just said something along the lines of "Why do I (Conan) care about what's going on with your love-triangle? I don't have any stake in this." But I don't really see any sexism in the the way he actually decided to respond.

There is (at least through my eyes) heavy sexism on Shinichi's part in this scene. For one thing, you actually point out that Shinichi did not have to answer the way he did. As you said "he replies in the way he saw fit"...but that reply plays into the sexism of the sentence, and, as you said, Shinichi saw that as a fit way to answer. He did not see the sexism, he responded instinctively. His response and the fact that he did not choose to answer in a non-sexist way, heavily implies he is sexist.

Especially since his answer revealed his identity. One way to look at it is that Shinichi was so convinced that he had to "protect" Ran, so crudely possessive of her in that scene, that he saw it fit to reveal his identity to Eisuke just to "protect" her.

For a better read on what I thought of that scene and where I'm coming from, I would suggest reading this post I wrote a long time back. Most of my feelings in that post still apply.

This, so much this... it really annoyed me that two guys were discussing their ownership of her sexuality. They both were sexist. (Eisuke - I want to protect Ran and take her to America with me where she'll be mine! Shinichi - Back off! I already own her, and I'm not sharing!) The way it was portrayed was sexist (as in, this is normal and how it should be! Don't ask the girl for permission, ask her owner!) and very much a hallmark of Old Guy Fantasy.

Which is why I write fanfiction.

[kkslider5552000]

Okay, so I may have joined this forum just because I read this thread.

Oh. Oh really? Well, that is good to hear. Hope you enjoy your stay.

Yeah, I think that's another point I agree upon. They aren't really doing anything with the character. Ran's just awkwardly waiting at this point, and occasionally there will be a scene that's just a rehash of better scenes from the past without adding anything. In general, while Detective Conan isn't known for its character arcs or anything, I do get the sense that the majority of recurring characters are at the very least slightly different from before (or in the case of a Kogoro like character, your perception of them is arguably different), while Ran seems to switch between stagnation and regressing or just flat out turning what could've been slightly questionable into highly questionable characterization.

[Shiromi]

Okay, so I may have joined this forum just because I read this thread.

Oh. Oh really? Well, that is good to hear. Hope you enjoy your stay.

I plan on it! I'd read some of the fan theories that came out of here, and thought they were well-put together too. And I speak a little Japanese, and I figured it would be fun. I was really impressed by the discussion in this thread, and being a Feminist myself, I spent a lot of it cheering in agreement... all alone in my apartment, which really feels weird when there's no one there... *blushes* Anyways, this looks like a place where I can enjoy intelligent and respectful debate and/or fangirling. Perhaps both at the same time?

Yeah, I think that's another point I agree upon. They aren't really doing anything with the character. Ran's just awkwardly waiting at this point, and occasionally there will be a scene that's just a rehash of better scenes from the past without adding anything. In general, while Detective Conan isn't known for its character arcs or anything, I do get the sense that the majority of recurring characters are at the very least slightly different from before (or in the case of a Kogoro like character, your perception of them is arguably different), while Ran seems to switch between stagnation and regressing or just flat out turning what could've been slightly questionable into highly questionable characterization.

My theory is that it's a symptom of the series being stretched out a lot longer than it was originally planned. Unfortunately, the series isn't well-suited to a never-ending storyline. I think that there are stretch marks clearly visible early on (the bombing in the hotel and Sherry's confrontation with Gin, the end of the Vermouth/Jodie arch) when they realized, "Oh crap, they liked it a lot. How can we make the story longer?"), and when you've only got a few notes planned for one character, the character spends the rest of the story not doing much of interest.

Actually, everything suffers... all of the characterization stagnates, the mysteries get repetitive, and after the nth Shounen Tantei episode and the nth "It's fishing line and scotch tape!" I just want to give up... so I haven't watched all of the anime. I found lists of episodes with descriptions of them on various sites, and skipped ahead to the plot. I did go through all of it in the Manga, where at least it's slightly more well balanced and not bound by Itmustfill20minutes!!. Also, I don't have to hear the grating voices of the Shounen Tantei, which makes their filler chapters much more standable.

[S.Vineyard]

@Shiromi: I absolutly agree with you, that the current "streching" of the storyline is really hurting the manga. (Plus the fact that Gosho is taking more and more pauses.)
I also hope that the "aftermath" of the London Arc will soon be continued, but currently this storyline is overshadowed by the Sera Arc.

Since the London confession - there hasn't been very much from her point of view on it, other than she can't seem to give him an answer. I'd like to see a chapter from her POV, explaining her doubts. That'd be interesting, but I doubt we'll get it.

Well, we already had in form of the Ran's suspicison chapter. Imo. the perfect opportunity would be her birthday, if Gosho finally makes a case around this date.

[Citan]

Welcome to the site Shiromi. We're glad to have you. I'm sure you'll love it here.

As for Ran. It's a mess. Realistically she should have found out the truth long ago. She's just had the idiot ball rammed down her throat for years to keep her from finding out until Gosho decides it's "time". It's frustrating and has really damaged the credibility her character. Not just that but I feel Gosho's stubborn refusal to let Ran find out ANYTHING is holding back the series as a whole. Letting her find out doesn't necessarily have to herald the end of the series. How interesting would it be to see Ran and Shinichi trying to deal with the implications of Ran being in on the secret? Of her having to secretly help Conan investigate cases while still pretending he's just a child to everyone else?

So much could come of Ran finally knowing the truth. It's a shame Gosho doesn't seem to want to explore that route, and it's a sad state of affairs when I can think of fanfics that have a better grasp on Ran's character than Gosho himself seems to these days. This thread asks why people hate Ran. I don't that that's actually the case. It seems to me that people hate what Ran has become. The empty promise she now represents. Gosho has teased us with her "suspicion arcs" so many times people have come to resent the character herself over it, and that's the biggest shame of all.

[k11chi]

@Shiromi: I absolutly agree with you, that the current "streching" of the storyline is really hurting the manga. (Plus the fact that Gosho is taking more and more pauses.)
I also hope that the "aftermath" of the London Arc will soon be continued, but currently this storyline is overshadowed by the Sera Arc.

Since the London confession - there hasn't been very much from her point of view on it, other than she can't seem to give him an answer. I'd like to see a chapter from her POV, explaining her doubts. That'd be interesting, but I doubt we'll get it.

Well, we already had in form of the Ran's suspicison chapter. Imo. the perfect opportunity would be her birthday, if Gosho finally makes a case around this date.

Well the breaks actually come because Gosho travels to different real life places in order to take photos and stuff like that, it definitely helps with the cases

[Wakarimashita]

Welcome to the site Shiromi. We're glad to have you. I'm sure you'll love it here.

As for Ran. It's a mess. Realistically she should have found out the truth long ago. She's just had the idiot ball rammed down her throat for years to keep her from finding out until Gosho decides it's "time". It's frustrating and has really damaged the credibility her character. Not just that but I feel Gosho's stubborn refusal to let Ran find out ANYTHING is holding back the series as a whole. Letting her find out doesn't necessarily have to herald the end of the series. How interesting would it be to see Ran and Shinichi trying to deal with the implications of Ran being in on the secret? Of her having to secretly help Conan investigate cases while still pretending he's just a child to everyone else.

That's just not possible given how the manga operates though...Jd- made a great post a few weeks ago on that matter explaining why it can't happen that way :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11714&p=789144#p789144

[bash7353]

[...]

Since the London confession - there hasn't been very much from her point of view on it, other than she can't seem to give him an answer. I'd like to see a chapter from her POV, explaining her doubts. That'd be interesting, but I doubt we'll get it.

Well, we already had in form of the Ran's suspicison chapter. Imo. the perfect opportunity would be her birthday, if Gosho finally makes a case around this date.

I'm not sure if that's true, but I've read somewhere that Gosho said in an interview he can't reveal Ran's birthday yet because he's gonna need that later in the plot. And another suspicion arc has been heavily hinted at, so I hope that's what he needs it for. It's gonna be while, though, I think. We know how fast the story's moving forward…

@Shiromi: I absolutly agree with you, that the current "streching" of the storyline is really hurting the manga. (Plus the fact that Gosho is taking more and more pauses.) [...]

I don't think he's taking more and more pauses. There was one very big pause between the appearances of Scar Akai and the introduction of Sera if I remember correctly. From that point it actually went way faster than it usually does, at least until Mystery Train (I'm just up-to-date on the anime). Before that, it was just his normal pace which many say is too slow, I know. But I defend Gosho on that. I know it's pretty annoying when one has to wait months and months for another case that has relevance to the plot, but I think people underestimate how hard it actually is to come up with a storyline that is as convoluted as this one and still doesn't really have any big contradictions - even after close to 20 years worth of plot. Add to that all the hints that have appeared in every major arc so far. To be able to tell a story this way you need to be extremely familiar with where you want the plot to go.
I think the big pause was mostly for Gosho to fully understand the character Sera. He wanted to introduce her before revealing Bourbon's identity, so he had to push Mystery Train until he was ready to put Sera into the story. To do that he first had to know Sera's full history, so that he can appropriately place hints. This way he can also be sure not to contradict himself as opposed to if he made up the resolutions to the mysteries concerning Sera on the fly. So I think the big pause was likely a one-time thing….

I've gotten a bit off topic, sorry.

[...] I also hope that the "aftermath" of the London Arc will soon be continued, but currently this storyline is overshadowed by the Sera Arc. [...]

I'm not sure that this is necessarily a bad thing. I would very much like to see these two story arcs intertwined. Maybe Sera's behaviour or the reveal of mysteries concerning her will influence how Ran will react to Shinichi's confession. I don't really like it that all the different story arcs appear to exist next to each other, yet very rarely have events of one affected another.

[Citan]

Welcome to the site Shiromi. We're glad to have you. I'm sure you'll love it here.

As for Ran. It's a mess. Realistically she should have found out the truth long ago. She's just had the idiot ball rammed down her throat for years to keep her from finding out until Gosho decides it's "time". It's frustrating and has really damaged the credibility her character. Not just that but I feel Gosho's stubborn refusal to let Ran find out ANYTHING is holding back the series as a whole. Letting her find out doesn't necessarily have to herald the end of the series. How interesting would it be to see Ran and Shinichi trying to deal with the implications of Ran being in on the secret? Of her having to secretly help Conan investigate cases while still pretending he's just a child to everyone else.

That's just not possible given how the manga operates though...Jd- made a great post a few weeks ago on that matter explaining why it can't happen that way :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11714&p=789144#p789144

Not that it can't. More like it won't because it's not Gosho's style. He's way to focused on maintaining the status quo for as long as possible, which I happen to disagree with. Having a status quo is good in that it allows you a backdrop on which to paint your world and the events within. The problems start when you put maintaining the status quo ahead of everything else to the detriment of other parts of the story. When you have characters trapped in holding patterns for years because it would disrupt the status quo for them to progress any further... well, it's time for a new status quo.

Character development has to flow naturally with the story, else you break reader immersion. If you hold it back for too long because it's inconvenient to the plot you're going to end up committing character assassination to keep them from progressing as they should. People will grow tired and resentful because they can't accept how dense the character is being portrayed. Especially if the character in question was portrayed as highly competent beforehand. This is what is happening to Ran. She's been stripped of everything that made her an interesting character just to serve the status quo.

Now let me be clear that I am not disrespecting Gosho in any way. He is a great writer who has created a story and beloved characters that have brought all of us together here. I'm sure he has a plan and intends for certain things to make more sense later on. However, without knowing that plan I can only react to what we've been given and it truly seems like Ran has been perpetually given the short end of the stick. She deserves better. She deserves to be returned to the strong competent character she was when the series started.

I understand that the series is Gosho's to write as he wishes. I also know he uses the mystery of the week structure to drop foreshadowing to future plot developments. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with his methods, or be annoyed that he continues to give Ran the shaft so he can continue to send the detective boys on meaningless camping trips. As I said, I'm sure Gosho has a plan for her. I just wish he didn't have to reduce her to such a meaningless typical damsel role in the meantime.

[kkslider5552000]

tbh, I think Gosho should've every few months put out a chapter that has little to nothing to do with cases. Even if it's not specifically character development, give the characters a chance to just be characters without needing to focus on a case. Even write something borderline slice-of-life like, something easier to write (not that I'm saying slice of life is suddenly super easy to write well, but it's probably easier than Gosho's current job). Gives him more time to think about the next case even. Like, it isn't like the series is in danger of being cancelled or anything.

Also, I don't see how Ran being suspicious would be a problem. She could literally know for a case and then next case she could just say "ok, I should do my best to act like I don't know". Bam! You now have to do nothing until the cases where you want to focus on that and that can be similar to any other "Ran knows" cases. It's not an issue really.

[Wakarimashita]

Welcome to the site Shiromi. We're glad to have you. I'm sure you'll love it here.

As for Ran. It's a mess. Realistically she should have found out the truth long ago. She's just had the idiot ball rammed down her throat for years to keep her from finding out until Gosho decides it's "time". It's frustrating and has really damaged the credibility her character. Not just that but I feel Gosho's stubborn refusal to let Ran find out ANYTHING is holding back the series as a whole. Letting her find out doesn't necessarily have to herald the end of the series. How interesting would it be to see Ran and Shinichi trying to deal with the implications of Ran being in on the secret? Of her having to secretly help Conan investigate cases while still pretending he's just a child to everyone else.

That's just not possible given how the manga operates though...Jd- made a great post a few weeks ago on that matter explaining why it can't happen that way :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11714&p=789144#p789144

Not that it can't. More like it won't because it's not Gosho's style. He's way to focused on maintaining the status quo for as long as possible, which I happen to disagree with. Having a status quo is good in that it allows you a backdrop on which to paint your world and the events within. The problems start when you put maintaining the status quo ahead of everything else to the detriment of other parts of the story. When you have characters trapped in holding patterns for years because it would disrupt the status quo for them to progress any further... well, it's time for a new status quo.

Character development has to flow naturally with the story, else you break reader immersion. If you hold it back for too long because it's inconvenient to the plot you're going to end up committing character assassination to keep them from progressing as they should. People will grow tired and resentful because they can't accept how dense the character is being portrayed. Especially if the character in question was portrayed as highly competent beforehand. This is what is happening to Ran. She's been stripped of everything that made her an interesting character just to serve the status quo.

Now let me be clear that I am not disrespecting Gosho in any way. He is a great writer who has created a story and beloved characters that have brought all of us together here. I'm sure he has a plan and intends for certain things to make more sense later on. However, without knowing that plan I can only react to what we've been given and it truly seems like Ran has been perpetually given the short end of the stick. She deserves better. She deserves to be returned to the strong competent character she was when the series started.

I understand that the series is Gosho's to write as he wishes. I also know he uses the mystery of the week structure to drop foreshadowing to future plot developments. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with his methods, or be annoyed that he continues to give Ran the shaft so he can continue to send the detective boys on meaningless camping trips. As I said, I'm sure Gosho has a plan for her. I just wish he didn't have to reduce her to such a meaningless typical damsel role in the meantime.

The thing is the premise on which you base your reasoning is a bit flawed. This isn't only Gosho's story anymore, and in fact it hasn't been for quite some time. An example : in the recent booklet about the series, it was revealed that Sera was thought about and created by Gosho and his editors because the detective girl from the South in the 'Three Days with Hattori Heiji' case was quite popular at the time. Gosho can't just break away from the status quo like that, there is a movie (and even several this year) to be made each year that requires the basic aspects of the series to remain consistent, same thing for the fillers etc. You can have arcs with characters coming and going, you can have some events happening here and there but the overall picture has to stay the same and that's basically as far as it will go until the very end (if it ever does end).

[Kudo Shinchi]

I don't if this is just me, but I honestly have no problem with how Conan has constantly fooled Ran, as in, I don't think her failing to figure out Conan's identity demonstrates that she is a dumb character. The endless amount of fans who are always saying that Ran is super dense and whatnot for not figuring out Conan's identity baffles me. Because the most logical conclusion upon seeing an elementary school kid who looks similar to your high school childhood friend is that said childhood friend shrunk, right?

I mean, let's break down the times Conan has fooled Ran, the method's he used, and look at it from Ran's POV as well.

Conan gets Agasa to call Ran using the voice-changing bowtie the same time she's talking to him
So Ran's confronting Conan, and gets a phone call from Shinichi while Conan is right in front of her. She doesn't know about the voice changing bowtie. Does it make much sense to assume that Conan was able to somehow get someone to call her with Shinichi's voice at just the right time? If anything, that's a rather far-fetched theory. From Ran's perspective, Conan's a kid she barely knows who acts a bit like Shinichi. Isn't it logical to think that she could be mistaken. Her dropping of her suspicions here is anything a normal person would do. She didn't have much convincing evidence in the first place aside that Conan seems too smart from his age and looks like Shinichi. Remember, most people wouldn't think Shinichi was shrunk somehow, and neither does Ran.


Ran confronts Conan in front of Shinichi's house
Here, Ran's suspicions arise again when she really takes notice of Conan and Shinichi's similarity. She confronts Conan, and is extremely confident in her conclusion, even going as far as coming up with a theory to explain Shinichi's situation: a drug made by Agasa shrunk him somehow. Yukiko comes to Conan's rescue. Notice after her long rambling Ran is still suspicious, and of BOTH of them. She lets it slide, but its important to note that Ran hasn't really stopped suspecting Conan. She just lets the subject go to deal with later. There are subtle hints from here on out until Desperate Revival that Ran's still suspicious.

Desperate Revival
Ran is almost unshakable in her conviction, confident enough to be sure she knows Conan's blood type. Ran's suspicions are debunked when Shinichi himself shows up while Conan himself is around. No phone business this time. She doesn't know about Haibara or her past. She doesn't know about APTX, or its antidotes. So now, when confronted with the real Shinichi and seemingly real Conan in one room, what's the logical thing to assume? Ran's initially shocked, but she eventually decides she must have been mistaken, after all the evidence she sees before her.

Episode 400
This suspicion does not take place until a while after DR. Ran does not initially suspect Conan of being Shinichi, but of getting Shinichi's assistance and the like. Ran's evidence and overall strategy here isn't very reliable, and Conan easily tricks her with his two phone trick. Again, pretty convincing, and Ran's doubts are settled quickly, which makes sense since what happened in DR is not easy to forget.

So where does Ran act very dumb? If anything her repeated suspicions show her intelligence, as well as her gut feelings. Its just that its hard to argue against the frankly unfair tricks Conan pulls on her. People seem to forget this is not a case of Ran vs. Conan, but of Ran vs. Conan and Heiji and Agasa, and Haibara and Yukiko. Conan has an all team available and ready to fool Ran, while she's just a high school girl on her own with no real, hard evidence.

Her currently developing suspicion arc points to her sharpness as well. Ran does not forget what happened in the Shirigamai case. She questions Kazuha about the fingerprints on the charm. She wonders why Shinichi is calling through Conan's phone in the Mouri Detective Agency hostage case. She catches Conan's slip of tongue in episode 691. She also notices Conan's soccer belt (for the first time, I should add) in the same episode. If anything, after the genius detectives, Ran is one of the smarter and sharper people in the cast. She's as smart as she was originally portrayed from the start, as far as I'm concerned.

I should add that the other people who figured out Conan's identity had no team ready to fool them. Conan's parents were told by Agasa, Conan had no way of fooling Heiji and wasn't ready for it, Eisuke was staright up told by Conan, Okiya saw sound evidence with his own eyes, etc.

[kkslider5552000]

Welcome to the site Shiromi. We're glad to have you. I'm sure you'll love it here.

As for Ran. It's a mess. Realistically she should have found out the truth long ago. She's just had the idiot ball rammed down her throat for years to keep her from finding out until Gosho decides it's "time". It's frustrating and has really damaged the credibility her character. Not just that but I feel Gosho's stubborn refusal to let Ran find out ANYTHING is holding back the series as a whole. Letting her find out doesn't necessarily have to herald the end of the series. How interesting would it be to see Ran and Shinichi trying to deal with the implications of Ran being in on the secret? Of her having to secretly help Conan investigate cases while still pretending he's just a child to everyone else.

That's just not possible given how the manga operates though...Jd- made a great post a few weeks ago on that matter explaining why it can't happen that way :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11714&p=789144#p789144

Not that it can't. More like it won't because it's not Gosho's style. He's way to focused on maintaining the status quo for as long as possible, which I happen to disagree with. Having a status quo is good in that it allows you a backdrop on which to paint your world and the events within. The problems start when you put maintaining the status quo ahead of everything else to the detriment of other parts of the story. When you have characters trapped in holding patterns for years because it would disrupt the status quo for them to progress any further... well, it's time for a new status quo.

Character development has to flow naturally with the story, else you break reader immersion. If you hold it back for too long because it's inconvenient to the plot you're going to end up committing character assassination to keep them from progressing as they should. People will grow tired and resentful because they can't accept how dense the character is being portrayed. Especially if the character in question was portrayed as highly competent beforehand. This is what is happening to Ran. She's been stripped of everything that made her an interesting character just to serve the status quo.

Now let me be clear that I am not disrespecting Gosho in any way. He is a great writer who has created a story and beloved characters that have brought all of us together here. I'm sure he has a plan and intends for certain things to make more sense later on. However, without knowing that plan I can only react to what we've been given and it truly seems like Ran has been perpetually given the short end of the stick. She deserves better. She deserves to be returned to the strong competent character she was when the series started.

I understand that the series is Gosho's to write as he wishes. I also know he uses the mystery of the week structure to drop foreshadowing to future plot developments. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with his methods, or be annoyed that he continues to give Ran the shaft so he can continue to send the detective boys on meaningless camping trips. As I said, I'm sure Gosho has a plan for her. I just wish he didn't have to reduce her to such a meaningless typical damsel role in the meantime.

The thing is the premise on which you base your reasoning is a bit flawed. This isn't only Gosho's story anymore, and in fact it hasn't been for quite some time. An example : in the recent booklet about the series, it was revealed that Sera was thought about and created by Gosho and his editors because the detective girl from the South in the 'Three Days with Hattori Heiji' case was quite popular at the time. Gosho can't just break away from the status quo like that, there is a movie (and even several this year) to be made each year that requires the basic aspects of the series to remain consistent, same thing for the fillers etc. You can have arcs with characters coming and going, you can have some events happening here and there but the overall picture has to stay the same and that's basically as far as it will go until the very end (if it ever does end).

Considering the amount of anime movies that are released for other franchises where going to a different story makes far less sense, combined with the fact that the anime movie team would at least have a year because manga, plus the fact that the movies always have convenient little recaps at the beginning, I fail to see the issue.

[S.Vineyard]

Spoiler:

I don't if this is just me, but I honestly have no problem with how Conan has constantly fooled Ran, as in, I don't think her failing to figure out Conan's identity demonstrates that she is a dumb character. The endless amount of fans who are always saying that Ran is super dense and whatnot for not figuring out Conan's identity baffles me. Because the most logical conclusion upon seeing an elementary school kid who looks similar to your high school childhood friend is that said childhood friend shrunk, right?

I mean, let's break down the times Conan has fooled Ran, the method's he used, and look at it from Ran's POV as well.

Conan gets Agasa to call Ran using the voice-changing bowtie the same time she's talking to him
So Ran's confronting Conan, and gets a phone call from Shinichi while Conan is right in front of her. She doesn't know about the voice changing bowtie. Does it make much sense to assume that Conan was able to somehow get someone to call her with Shinichi's voice at just the right time? If anything, that's a rather far-fetched theory. From Ran's perspective, Conan's a kid she barely knows who acts a bit like Shinichi. Isn't it logical to think that she could be mistaken. Her dropping of her suspicions here is anything a normal person would do. She didn't have much convincing evidence in the first place aside that Conan seems too smart from his age and looks like Shinichi. Remember, most people wouldn't think Shinichi was shrunk somehow, and neither does Ran.


Ran confronts Conan in front of Shinichi's house
Here, Ran's suspicions arise again when she really takes notice of Conan and Shinichi's similarity. She confronts Conan, and is extremely confident in her conclusion, even going as far as coming up with a theory to explain Shinichi's situation: a drug made by Agasa shrunk him somehow. Yukiko comes to Conan's rescue. Notice after her long rambling Ran is still suspicious, and of BOTH of them. She lets it slide, but its important to note that Ran hasn't really stopped suspecting Conan. She just lets the subject go to deal with later. There are subtle hints from here on out until Desperate Revival that Ran's still suspicious.

Desperate Revival
Ran is almost unshakable in her conviction, confident enough to be sure she knows Conan's blood type. Ran's suspicions are debunked when Shinichi himself shows up while Conan himself is around. No phone business this time. She doesn't know about Haibara or her past. She doesn't know about APTX, or its antidotes. So now, when confronted with the real Shinichi and seemingly real Conan in one room, what's the logical thing to assume? Ran's initially shocked, but she eventually decides she must have been mistaken, after all the evidence she sees before her.

Episode 400
This suspicion does not take place until a while after DR. Ran does not initially suspect Conan of being Shinichi, but of getting Shinichi's assistance and the like. Ran's evidence and overall strategy here isn't very reliable, and Conan easily tricks her with his two phone trick. Again, pretty convincing, and Ran's doubts are settled quickly, which makes sense since what happened in DR is not easy to forget.

So where does Ran act very dumb? If anything her repeated suspicions show her intelligence, as well as her gut feelings. Its just that its hard to argue against the frankly unfair tricks Conan pulls on her. People seem to forget this is not a case of Ran vs. Conan, but of Ran vs. Conan and Heiji and Agasa, and Haibara and Yukiko. Conan has an all team available and ready to fool Ran, while she's just a high school girl on her own with no real, hard evidence.

Her currently developing suspicion arc points to her sharpness as well. Ran does not forget what happened in the Shirigamai case. She questions Kazuha about the fingerprints on the charm. She wonders why Shinichi is calling through Conan's phone in the Mouri Detective Agency hostage case. She catches Conan's slip of tongue in episode 691. She also notices Conan's soccer belt (for the first time, I should add) in the same episode. If anything, after the genius detectives, Ran is one of the smarter and sharper people in the cast. She's as smart as she was originally portrayed from the start, as far as I'm concerned.

I should add that the other people who figured out Conan's identity had no team ready to fool them. Conan's parents were told by Agasa, Conan had no way of fooling Heiji and wasn't ready for it, Eisuke was staright up told by Conan, Okiya saw sound evidence with his own eyes, etc.

Agreed.

As for the Birthday Case: He said this early 2012, a few months after the London Arc. Also, imo. the Major obstacle is that the Birthday file has to feature Shinichi.

@Movies: Currently there is a one year gap between the manga file release in Shounen Sunday and the Anime Version of the the file. More than enough time.