Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

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Fennec

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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Fennec »

I thought the color covers with the Chinese raws were fan-colored (though that raises the question of why the eyes aren't green).

Also, Chapter 876 is out in the spoiler box for those who aren't aware. It has Conan adding a bit of insight and questions about the girl's identity.
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by kirite »

Magical Mystery wrote:
I think that Sera is trying to give Conan's memory a little jump-start, just not in the way you think. As to the picture, there is a color picture of the girl. It was the cover of the last file. It's here in the spoiler box below (cropped to show the phone more clearly)

Picture: Hope this helps.
Spoiler:
Image
Possible crazy hint:
Spoiler:
Notice the Blueish eyes and blonde hair, anybody else have that look? Look at how heavy the eyebrows are, especially closer to the nose - and notice how dark they are compared to the hair. Maybe I'm "barking up the wrong tree", but I think whoever that is, may be wearing a wig.
Unless its coloured by Gosho himself (like Heiji's green eyes) or explicitly told by Gosho (like Haibara's hair) I don't pay attention to pictures. Fans colour whatever they want.
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Fennec »

I was writing this post in the latest mystery discussion thread, but I realized it belonged here more.
Carmady wrote:Hair color can change in children (you could have pure white hair when you are young, and later it changes to brown).

Combining that with the girl he met "a long time ago", it seems like it should be white haired Sera before her hair changed.

If it was one of her brothers, how old would she and Shinichi have been? Would it even be possible for them to meet when her brother was that young?

There are lots of other options, but this seems like the most "innocent" option for Sera. If she is already well aware of APTX4869 for example, I don't think she would so easily show off a picture about it.
This post gave me a thought: who says Sera knows about the APTX? Even if the child in the photo is a victim of it, that doesn't mean they had to tell her about the drug itself. She could have been told it was a distant relative, or that her brother was suffering some unknown disease. Hell, maybe the APTX was taken unintentionally—as in, not directly shoved into her/his mouth by the BO—and so none of them realize the true cause.

When I think about it, I doubt her family would tell her about the APTX if they knew about it. It's linked to such a dangerous organization that information would be shared sparingly; it would be really dangeros to tell her about it, especially since she's a detective. Just look at Shinichi/Conan: he'd probably try to take them down even if he WASN'T shrunk. Additionally, her moral values aren't as strong as his: while Conan doesn't believe in letting anyone die, Sera was willing to let police snipers shoot a person who was threatening to kill himself and another person. As such, it's not unthinkable to suspect that she might try to track down the BO on her own to find a cure, thus putting her in a dangerous situation.

Going by this line of thinking, the best solution would be NOT to tell her about the shrinking at all. However, as we all know, she's fully aware of the child. As such, the best alternatives are as stated earlier: A) she was told her relative shrunk through some strange unknown illness (which further implies that this was a relative close enough that her/his status would be impossible to hide from Sera); or B) that the child is a previously unknown, ill relative (like Conan's excuses). Whatever the case, she'd probably deduce that there's more to the story due to her skills (no way they could keep her fooled as long as Ran—no offense to Ran fans).

In short, she could have no idea how her relative shrunk into a child. However, by chance she came across a photo of Conan (probably sent along with Akai's belongings, as theorized by Chek), and recognizing him as Shinichi Kudo, she went to Japan to see if there was any kind of connection. This would explain why she showed the photo to Conan: to gauge his reactions and provide a starting point for her to investigate the connection between his shrinking and her relative's.

However, though I spent about half an hour writing this, I'm not really in the "shrunken relative" camp (at least, not to the point where I'll find any proof to support it; I'm pretty okay with all of the suggested theories so far). I just thought this was an interesting thing to consider.
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k11chi

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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by k11chi »

I doubt she's APTX user tbh
But Sera seems to know more of Conan for some reason, I guess her being a detective is a reason for that
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Pdid »

Somebody think that the second brother is Sera?
I mean, I don't think the second brother is a new character when chapter 900 is this close. And I don't buy the shrunken theory (with Conan and Haibara it's enough). I know it's crazy but what if:

-Akai is Okiya.
-Sera is a boy and the second brother. Her real appearance is Okiya. That’s the reason she was so surprised to see herself in chapter 812, but she couldn’t say anything because she is disguised as well. Furthermore, everybody mislead her as a boy and she was caught in men’s room in The Kid case.
-The little sister is the blond girl. Her real appearance is Sera but she is disguised.
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by k11chi »

Pdid wrote:Somebody think that the second brother is Sera?
I mean, I don't think the second brother is a new character when chapter 900 is this close. And I don't buy the shrunken theory (with Conan and Haibara it's enough). I know it's crazy but what if:

-Akai is Okiya.
-Sera is a boy and the second brother. Her real appearance is Okiya. That’s the reason she was so surprised to see herself in chapter 812, but she couldn’t say anything because she is disguised as well. Furthermore, everybody mislead her as a boy and she was caught in men’s room in The Kid case.
-The little sister is the blond girl. Her real appearance is Sera but she is disguised.
That would indeed explain things like the womens wig hair and existence of a woman she was looking for at Shinichis place... However no, there are just massive problems with that like:
"I am a bad girl after all..." *cries*
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Chekhov's breakdown of the mystery child problem so far.

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

DCW is down for maintenance so I can't post there. But here is what we have so far to go on with the child.
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/foru ... /?p=305898
Spoiler:
Known facts about the child:
• Conan thinks the child is female. Outfit appears to be a high-neck pleated top, hoodie jacket, and hat. A pleated top, assuming that is what it is, is considered female-only clothing in Japan as far as I know.
• Child has neck length, blond, curly hair. It's noted to resemble Char Aznable's.
• Middle school aged-looking according to Conan, so approx 12-15 years old. Height is intermediate between Conan and Ran.
• Has eyes like Akai Shuuichi. Compare: Child, Shuuichi
• Highly likely to have been hiding in Masumi's bedroom. Masumi preventing Conan from entering the bedroom and the child was later shown emerging from her room later (876).
• Conan thinks Masumi showed the child's picture to him intentionally, although the purpose is unknown.

Some notes about the facts
• Wearing a hat indoors is somewhat secretive, but also common for Akai family.

Speculation

Conan suspected Masumi was warning someone to hide in the text to her brother
Conan seems surprised that Masumi would so quickly cancel a meeting with her brother (876: pgs 4), especially after Masumi noted earlier that she has no idea what the brother has been doing of where he has been. (859: pgs 6-7) Conan gets the suspicious "..." watching Masumi text her brother happily, suggesting that she is doing something he finds suspect. Conan then decides to pry around the apartment, something Masumi in turn was alert to. Since the child in the photo was shown on the bed, Conan may have just been intending to match the patterns with his memory of those he saw on the phone picture to ascertain where the photo was taken. That said, I think Conan is assuming Masumi's text was a warning to stay hidden, especially after he was blocked from the bedroom.

Conan suspects there is something important about the child
Conan chases after the child in the crowd in a hurried and almost panicked fashion. The last time he did that sort of thing was when Scar Akai appeared and when he thought Bourbon might have gotten some serious information. That doesn't imply the child is evil, but certainly suggests that Conan thinks the child is important enough to track down immediately and get emotional about.

Conan's assumption that the child is a girl should be taken with a grain of salt
Conan could very well be correct about the child being a girl. That said, Masumi already fooled Conan into thinking she was male. Androgyny might be a recurring theme for the Akai family. Even though the child appears in girl's clothes, if the child is a boy in hiding (wearing a hat indoors suggests this may be the case) then they may be using their androgynous appearance as a simple disguise.

Reason why Masumi would show Conan the child's picture
Conan thinks Masumi deliberately showed him the picture of the child in 875. Masumi has also been relatively free with information regarding her family. It may be that she is inviting Conan to make a deduction about the child's identity.
If Conan is wrong about why Masumi wanted him to retrieve her phone, I can only think of a few other options. Maybe she wanted his fingerprints? If that is the case, couldn't she have gotten them already from something else he touched? Maybe she left the camera on and was filming his face close up as he collected it? Maybe it was recording his voice? (If it is the voice, Masumi could have purchased a recorder earlier, or recorded Conan during the deduction scene.)

Theories about the identity of the child

Facts about Masumi's family
This is the information about Masumi's family she has given us so far. Most of it is self reported, so if she is lying everything goes out the window.
• Masumi's nuclear family consists of five individuals
....• A father who is dead
....• A mother, well endowed, currently living in America. Resembles Masumi and the eldest son.
....• An oldest son, thought to be dead, who looks like Masumi and his mother. Heavily implied to be Shuuichi Akai.
....• A middle brother living in Japan who doesn't look like Masumi, Shuuichi, or their mom.
......Smart as opposed to strong, probably 28-29 years old, and has been advising Masumi on cases by phone.
......His whereabouts and work are unknown according to Masumi.
....• Masumi herself

Masumi claims that she doesn't have any more relatives close enough to depend on. (876 pg 3) It is unclear whether this means that her family are all the relatives she has, or she could have more relatives, but they aren't close enough to support her. She says she is being financially supported by one of her dad's friends. The identity of this backer is unknown currently.

This information appears to exclude another blood relative in Masumi's nuclear family, which confuses Conan. That leaves us with a few options
• Masumi has lied about the number of siblings she has.
• Masumi has lied or does not know about (i.e. doesn't know they are related by blood) having additional relatives she is close with, one of which is the child.
• The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi.
• The child's strong resemblance to the Akai family is coincidental.
• The child is an offspring of one of her siblings.
• The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.

Detailed Breakdown

Masumi lied about the number of siblings she has or the relatives that she has
If the child is another blood sibling, the span of her mother's childbearing years is minimum 13-14 years, assuming they are born of a single mother. Also I would expect to see clues that Masumi lied about her family per Gosho-writes-solvable-mysteries-which-means-there-should-be-clues-somewhere.

If the child is a relative of Masumi's then it doesn't explain why she would want to show Conan the picture, unless she was afraid of letting Ran and Sonoko know she had relatives.

Masumi doesn't know the child is a blood relative of hers
In these cases it is unclear why Masumi would want to show Conan the photo of someone she doesn't think is related to her.
• Masumi's backers may be blood relatives of the Akai family, but Masumi does not know this yet. The child is related to her backers.
• The child is a secret offspring of the father or mother. It is unclear when Masumi's father died. If he had a child by another woman, then it is possible that the child was raised with that other woman instead, and Masumi was not aware of the relationship. Also, if somehow her mother concealed a pregnancy from Masumi, it's possible that the child is a secret sibling.

The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi
One solution is that Mrs. Akai remarried and had another child after the death of her first husband, who had Shuuichi, middle brother, and Masumi. Masumi for some reason doesn't consider this step-child a part of her family. This sort of logic seems weird to me, but maybe there is customary thinking to explain this?

The child is an offspring of one of Masumi's older brothers
• Her middle brother is 28/29 which would make him a teen parent if that was the case.
• Shuuichi is older and theoretically could have had a relationship with another woman early on. That said, Shuuichi hasn't acted like he has a child (unless the woman he impregnated kept the child secret from him). Jodie is 28 and would have been a teen mom. No past girlfriends of Shuuichi old enough to have had the child are known to exist.

The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.
The APTX 4869 theory. Oh boy. Gin mentioned that Shinichi was the first, or at least one of the first people APTX 4869 was tested on. That is backed up by Haibara implying that the Black Organization hadn't been using it as a poison for too long. Her test of APTX 4869 on Numabuchi was blocked by him escaping. That implies that any shrinking going on will be recent in the case of APTX 4869, or really old to the tune of 18 years if Silver Bullet is involved. Silver Bullet was never mentioned as being tested on people, so APTX 4869 is more likely. Haibara, in her intro case, did give a warning that she thought more people might shrink which would be disastrous if discovered, so Shinichi should hurry up and make Kogoro famous and break the Org.

A shrunken person would explain why Masumi showed Conan the child on her phone, inviting him to figure out that he and the child have the same problem. If Conan thinks he is dealing with a shrunken child, it explains why he took off running after the kid in an extreme way.

Then there is the problem of why anyone would be dosed with APTX. Amuro trying to lure out Shuuichi by killing one of his family? The person got caught investigating something?

The middle brother shrunk
Out of all the various candidates, the middle bro makes the most sense. If he is the child, he looks different from Masumi and Shuuichi with his light hair color, something Japanese people are sensitive to. I could see Masumi saying he looks different from she and Shuuichi, even though their eyes are similar. The middle bro has failed to tell Masumi where he is and what he is doing and refused to allow Masumi live with him, all things he would be doing if he was trying to hide his shrunken state from her, or what Masumi would say to others if Masumi was covering for him.

It's strange that Masumi appears to have realized Conan is Shinichi (see discussion on The Wizard), but she hasn't informed her middle brother (who is in a similar state) about this discovery at least after the Makoto parking lot bathroom drowning case. If she knew her brother was shrunken, I would think that she would try to probe Conan to figure out what happened. She hasn't done so yet.

The only way I can reconcile this is if the brother had been keeping his shrinking a secret from Masumi up until the text message with Conan's picture in the Makoto parking lot drowning case. Then he himself figured out Conan was Shinichi (maybe he met Shinichi in the past too). In between Blush Mermaid and Red Woman, he broke his prior secrecy and called a meeting with Masumi because he wants info on someone else with his condition. Masumi takes a picture of her brother at this time and shows it to Conan in the Red Woman Case, hoping Conan will figure out there is someone else like him too. Masumi really did intend to meet with her brother at the hotel where she claims to be living now (which is different than the hotel she was shown to be living in before.) She changes plans to have Conan, Ran, and Sonoko come over so that the brother could get a look at Conan for himself. In case they see her later at a different hotel (the one where Masumi really lives), Masumi lies about moving out soon. Masumi keeps Conan from going in the bedroom is so he doesn't realize she doesn't live there. The brother wears a hat indoors when going to the scene of the crime in order to be sneaky.
This explanation doesn't account for how the brother knew Conan was a good detective.

If the brother is the child, that means as an adult, he probably looked like Okiya, because siblings typiclaly have similar builds. That would explain Masumi's instant startled reaction to Okiya, but uncharacteristic failure to follow up on any suspicion later. She realized he wasn't who she thought he was at first.

Masumi's mother shrunk
Well the child would be a girl. I don't really know what else to add onto this.

Akai Shuuichi shrunk
Shuuichi is definitely Okiya, so this doesn't work.

Characteristics Okiya possesses that Shuuichi has, but the middle bro might not have:
Black Org feeling
Ran's feeling they have met before
Quote "Don't make that face" and Haibara's feeling Okiya and Shuuichi are similar
Knowledge on how to operate Conan's tracking glasses despite not having seen them before as Okiya
Able to "predict Shiho and Akemi Miyano's moves"
Likes bourbon whiskey.
Left handed.
The presence of Yukiko while Okiya was living in the Kudo house. Yukiko is good in disguise.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on January 6th, 2014, 9:42 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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k11chi

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Re: Chekhov's breakdown of the mystery child problem so far.

Post by k11chi »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:DCW is down for maintenance so I can't post there. But here is what we have so far to go on with the child.
Spoiler:
Known facts about the child:
• Conan thinks the child is female. Outfit appears to be a high-neck pleated top, hoodie jacket, and hat. A pleated top, assuming that is what it is, is considered female-only clothing in Japan as far as I know.
• Child has neck length, blond, curly hair. It's noted to resemble Char Aznable's.
• Middle school aged-looking according to Conan, so approx 12-15 years old. Height is intermediate between Conan and Ran.
• Has eyes like Akai Shuuichi. Compare: Child, Shuuichi
• Highly likely to have been hiding in Masumi's bedroom. Masumi preventing Conan from entering the bedroom and the child was later shown emerging from her room later (876).
• Conan thinks Masumi showed the child's picture to him intentionally, although the purpose is unknown.

Some notes about the facts
• Wearing a hat indoors is somewhat secretive, but also common for Akai family.

Speculation

Conan suspected Masumi was warning someone to hide in the text to her brother
Conan seems surprised that Masumi would so quickly cancel a meeting with her brother (876: pgs 4), especially after Masumi noted earlier that she has no idea what the brother has been doing of where he has been. (859: pgs 6-7) Conan gets the suspicious "..." watching Masumi text her brother happily, suggesting that she is doing something he finds suspect. Conan then decides to pry around the apartment, something Masumi in turn was alert to. Since the child in the photo was shown on the bed, Conan may have just been intending to match the patterns with the his memory of those he saw on the phone to ascertain where the photo was taken. I think Conan is assuming the text was a warning to stay hidden.

Conan suspects there is something important about the child
Conan chases after the child in the crowd in a hurried and almost panicked fashion. The last time he did that sort of thing was when Scar Akai appeared and when he thought Bourbon might have gotten some serious information. That doesn't imply the child is evil, but certainly suggests that Conan thinks the child is important enough to track down immediately and nearly panic about.

Conan's assumption that the child is a girl should be taken with a grain of salt
Conan could very well be correct about the child being a girl. That said, Masumi already fooled Conan into thinking she was male. That might be a recurring theme for the Akai family. Even though the child appears in girl's clothes, if the child is a boy in hiding (wearing a hat indoors suggests this may be the case) then they may be using their appearance as a simple disguise.

Reason why Masumi would show Conan the child's picture
Conan thinks Masumi deliberately showed him the picture of the child in 875. Masumi has also been relatively free with information regarding her family.. It may be that she is inviting Conan to make a deduction about the child's identity.
If Conan is wrong about why Masumi wanted him to retrieve her phone, I can only think of a few other options. Maybe she wanted his fingerprints? If that is the case, couldn't she have gotten them already from something else he touched? Maybe she left the camera on and was filming his face close up as he collected it? Maybe it was recording his voice? (If it is the voice, Masumi could have purchased a recorder earlier, or recording Conan during the deduction scene and written it off as a text from her brother.)

Theories about the identity of the child

Facts about Masumi's family
This is the information about Masumi's family she has given us so far. Most of it is self reported, so if she is lying everything goes out the window.
• Masumi's nuclear family consists of five individuals
....• A father who is dead
....• A mother, well endowed, currently living in America. Resembles Masumi and the eldest son.
....• An oldest son, thought to be dead, who looks like Masumi and his mother. Heavily implied to be Shuuichi Akai.
....• A middle brother living in Japan who doesn't look like Masumi, Shuuichi, or their mom.
......Smart as opposed to strong, probably 28-29 years old, and has been advising Masumi on cases by phone.
......His whereabouts and work are unknown according to Masumi.
....• Masumi herself

Masumi claims that she doesn't have any more relatives close enough to depend on. (876 pg 3) It is unclear whether this means that her family are all the relatives she has, or she could have more relatives, but they aren't close enough to support her. She says she is being financially supported by a one of her dad's friends. The identity of this backer is unknown currently.

This information appears to exclude another blood relative in Masumi's nuclear family, which confuses Conan. That leaves us with a few options
• Masumi has lied about the number of siblings she has.
• Masumi has lied or does not know about (i.e. doesn't know they are related by blood) having additional relatives she is close with, one of which is the child.
• The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi.
Another solution is that the child's strong resemblance is coincidental.
• The child is an offspring of one of her siblings.
• The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.

Detailed Breakdown

Masumi lied about the number of siblings she has or the relatives that she has
If the child is another blood sibling, the span of her mother's childbearing years is minimum 13-14 years, assuming they are born of a single mother. Also I would expect to see clues that Masumi lied about her family per Gosho-writes-solvable-mysteries-which-means-there-should-be-clues-somewhere.

If the child is a relative of Masumi's then it doesn't explain why she would want to show Conan the picture, unless she was afraid of letting Ran and Sonoko know she had relatives.

Masumi doesn't know the child is a blood relative of hers
In these cases it is unclear why Masumi would want to show Conan the photo of someone she doesn't think is related to her.
• Masumi's backers may be blood relatives of the Akai family, but Masumi does not know this yet. The child is related to her backers.
• The child is a secret offspring of the father or mother. It is unclear when Masumi's father died. If he had a child by another woman, then it is possible that the child was raised with that other woman instead, and Masumi was not aware of the relationship. Also, if somehow her mother concealed a pregnancy from Masumi, it's possible that the child is a secret sibling.

The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi
One solution is that Mrs. Akai remarried and had another child after the death of her first husband, who had Shuuichi, middle brother, and Masumi. Masumi for some reason doesn't consider this step-child a part of her family. This sort of logic seems weird to me, but maybe there is customary thinking to explain this?

The child is an offspring of one of Masumi's older brothers
• Her middle brother is 28/29 which would make him a teen parent if that was the case.
• Shuuichi is older and theoretically could have had a relationship with another woman early on. That said, Shuuichi hasn't acted like he has a child (unless the woman he impregnated kept the child secret from him). Jodie is 28 and would have been a teen mom. No past girlfriends of Shuuichi old enough to have had the child are known to exist.

The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.
The APTX 4869 theory. Oh boy. Gin mentioned that Shinichi was the first, or at least one of the first people APTX 4869 was tested on. That is backed up by Haibara implying that the Black Organization hadn't been using it as a poison for too long. Her test of APTX 4869 on Numabuchi was blocked by him escaping. That implies that any shrinking going on will be recent in the case of APTX 4869, or really old to the tune of 18 years if Silver Bullet is involved. Silver Bullet was never mentioned as making into general circulation, so APTX 4869 is more likely. Haibara, in her intro case, did give a warning that she thought more people might shrink which would be disastrous if discovered, so Shinichi should hurry up and make Kogoro famous and break the Org.

A shrunken person would explain why Masumi showed Conan the child on her phone, inviting him to figure out that he and the child have the same problem. If Conan thinks he is dealing with a shrunken child, it explains why he took off running after the kid in an extreme way.

Then there is the problem of why anyone would be dosed with APTX. Amuro trying to lure out Shuuichi by killing one of his family? The person got caught investigating something?

The middle brother shrunk
Out of all the various candidates, the middle bro makes the most sense. If he is the child, he looks different from Masumi and Shuuichi with his light hair color, something Japanese people are sensitive to. I could see Masumi saying he looks different from she and Shuuichi, even though their eyes are similar. The middle bro has failed to tell Masumi where he is and what he is doing and refused to allow Masumi live with him, all things he would be doing if he was trying to hide his shrunken state from her, or what Masumi would say to others if Masumi was covering for him.

It's strange that Masumi appears to have realized Conan is Shinichi (see discussion on The Wizard), but she hasn't informed her middle brother (who is in a similar state) about this discovery at least after the Makoto parking lot bathroom drowning case. If she knew her brother was in this state, I would think that she would try to probe Conan to figure out what happened. She hasn't done so yet.

The only way I can reconcile this is if the brother had been keeping his shrinking a secret from Masumi up until the text message with Conan's picture in the Makoto parking lot drowning case. Then he himself figured out Conan was Shinichi (maybe he met Shinichi in the past too). In between Blush Mermaid and Red Woman, he broke his prior secrecy and called a meeting with Masumi because he wants info on someone else with his condition. Masumi takes a picture of him at this time and shows it to Conan in the Red Woman Case, hoping he will figure out there is someone else like him too. Masumi really did intend to meet with her brother at the hotel where she claims to be living now (which is different than the hotel she was shown to be living in before.) She changes plans to have Conan, Ran, and Sonoko come over so that the brother could get a look at Conan for himself. In case they see her later at a different hotel (the one where Masumi really lives), Masumi lies about moving out soon. Masumi keeps Conan from going in the bedroom is so he doesn't realize she doesn't live there. The brother wears a hat indoors when going to the scene of the crime in order to be sneaky.

Lastly if the brother is the child, that means as an adult, he probably looked like Okiya, having similar builds being siblings and all. That would explain Masumi's instant startled reaction to Okiya, but uncharacteristic failure to follow up on any suspicion later. She realized he wasn't who she thought he was at first.

Masumi's mother shrunk
Well the child would be a girl. I don't really know what else to add onto this.

Akai Shuuichi shrunk
Shuuichi is definitely Okiya, so this doesn't work.
Dont you think that she did something with the schoolbag? Add mic there in order to listen from afar or maybe check out something..
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Re: Chekhov's breakdown of the mystery child problem so far.

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

k11chi wrote: Dont you think that she did something with the schoolbag? Add mic there in order to listen from afar or maybe check out something..
I don't know if the child actually took Conan's schoolbag. When Masumi and the gang returned to to Masumi's room after investigation/being questioned about the crime, the scene-change skips the part of the hallway where the bag would have been. It isn't shown again in panel. If it is mentioned in the text, I can't translate. All I can say is that it isn't sitting inside the room by the front door.

Besides, Conan didn't know a crime was about to occur, so he couldn't plan to bug the bag. Bugging the room is a different matter...
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Pdid »

k11chi wrote:
Pdid wrote:Somebody think that the second brother is Sera?
I mean, I don't think the second brother is a new character when chapter 900 is this close. And I don't buy the shrunken theory (with Conan and Haibara it's enough). I know it's crazy but what if:

-Akai is Okiya.
-Sera is a boy and the second brother. Her real appearance is Okiya. That’s the reason she was so surprised to see herself in chapter 812, but she couldn’t say anything because she is disguised as well. Furthermore, everybody mislead her as a boy and she was caught in men’s room in The Kid case.
-The little sister is the blond girl. Her real appearance is Sera but she is disguised.
That would indeed explain things like the womens wig hair and existence of a woman she was looking for at Shinichis place... However no, there are just massive problems with that like:
"I am a bad girl after all..." *cries*
Well she says 'I'm a bad kid, after all'. But yes, my theory is pretty inconsistent.
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by k11chi »

Pdid wrote:
k11chi wrote:
Pdid wrote:Somebody think that the second brother is Sera?
I mean, I don't think the second brother is a new character when chapter 900 is this close. And I don't buy the shrunken theory (with Conan and Haibara it's enough). I know it's crazy but what if:

-Akai is Okiya.
-Sera is a boy and the second brother. Her real appearance is Okiya. That’s the reason she was so surprised to see herself in chapter 812, but she couldn’t say anything because she is disguised as well. Furthermore, everybody mislead her as a boy and she was caught in men’s room in The Kid case.
-The little sister is the blond girl. Her real appearance is Sera but she is disguised.
That would indeed explain things like the womens wig hair and existence of a woman she was looking for at Shinichis place... However no, there are just massive problems with that like:
"I am a bad girl after all..." *cries*
Well she says 'I'm a bad kid, after all'. But yes, my theory is pretty inconsistent.
yes bad kid thats right
in the Mystery Train Seras reaction to Scar Akai also was just... no
although maybe...
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Shiromi

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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Shiromi »

Here are some odd thoughts I put together on the child's identity...
  • Sera Masumi might have lied about the age of her other brother. He's in drag, or she lied about her sibling's gender as well.
  • Sera might be the middle brother, and the little girl the real Masumi. After all, even Kaitou KID thought Sera was male, and he got pretty darn close and down to the underwear.
  • The girl is unrelated, and one of Sera's clients/someone that she's hiding. Other than the eyes, there isn't much similarity between them.
  • The girl is someone that Conan met in the past, but didn't mark the meeting, and hasn't connected the two yet. Sera had hinted about a girl from long ago when they were teasing Conan about who his love interest could be. It could be a subtle clue along the lines of, "That girl I showed you? You know her, and she needs your help. Be subtle about it, please."
  • She may not have anything to do with the BO.
Some thoughts on Sera's motivation:
  • Sera respects and trusts Conan already, but may be trying to convince the kid that Conan would be a good ally.
  • She's setting up a test to see if Conan is good enough to be of any help.
  • She also may suspect the connection between Conan and Shinichi is more than through the phone, and is trying to trap Conan and confront him, looking to find out whatever he's up against or up to. This girl may be someone he met as Shinichi then.
Spoiler: Ch 878
In 878, she displays a lot of knowledge about technology, and Sera asks her what she thinks of him. The kid seems slow to trust him (maybe he shouldn't have bugged the room...), and gives that really cryptic answer about who Sera should say she is, if Conan asks. This is one of the reasons that I think she may be trying to get them together. She knows it's a delicate situation and the girl may not be able to trust others easily right now. Also, that kid probably has above average intelligence, which is suspicious, and I don't know what to make of it yet.
Agh, not terribly coherent thoughts, I know. Any weaknesses in my guesses/observations?
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
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Betareading this fanfic: Deception
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Shiromi wrote:Here are some odd thoughts I put together on the child's identity...
  • Sera Masumi might have lied about the age of her other brother. He's in drag, or she lied about her sibling's gender as well.
  • Sera might be the middle brother, and the little girl the real Masumi. After all, even Kaitou KID thought Sera was male, and he got pretty darn close and down to the underwear.
We know there must have been a male Sera those 28-29 year old people knew from high school. I doubt those people would have cooperated with any lie Masumi was telling. I suppose you could double down and say the Sera person the red women suspects knew was Shuuichi.
Shiromi wrote:
  • Sera respects and trusts Conan already, but may be trying to convince the kid that Conan would be a good ally.
Masumi definitely seems to side with Conan. I am pretty sure she is trying to get the child and Conan to cooperate for whatever reason. She showed Conan the picture of the child when she/he/it wasn't around to see, but played along with the child's wishes to stay hidden when Masumi's actions could be monitored. From the discussion with the child, it seems Masumi was the one who suggested that Conan could be trustworthy.

My only issue is why has Masumi only started this hinting about the kid now. She seems to have known Conan was Shinichi since the bus ride. Is this child a new development? Is she only finding out about the kid now?

Motivations, connections, and timing are the information we are lacking most right now. Without those we really can't piece together what's going on. Who knows who, and from when? What have they told each other, and what are they keeping secret? What are the agendas?
I have the feeling the major mystery people right now, Masumi, the child, and the middle bro, know quite a bit but haven't been sharing it with one another. The others then are acting on the assumption the others are ignorant in their conversations. (If the middle bro turns out to be the child, things will get even more confusing.)

With just Masumi we have the following unresolved questions.
  • Why did Masumi come to Japan in the first place? Is there more to it than her thoughts about returning to Japan because she wanted to meet "the wizard"? (874) Why does Masumi want to meet "the wizard"?
  • When and how did Masumi find out Shinichi was Conan? All evidence for when points to sometime before the bus ride where Conan and Ran first met her. How is a complete mystery. What would prompt Masumi into chasing the connection to Conan and Shinichi in the first place?
  • What were the circumstances of Masumi's meeting with Ran and Shinichi in the past?
  • Why did Masumi initially try to gather information about Haibara, and then delete it? Why did she recognize Shiho (V77-11 pg 11)? Did Masumi realize the woman on Mitsuhiko's video looked like the girl's photo she deleted earlier, which is why she got in Ai's face on the train? Why did Masumi want to speak with Ai on the train? Why did she not follow up?
  • Why did Masumi react to seeing Okiya, but then not follow up?
  • Why is Masumi only bringing the child up with Conan now?
  • What secrets or knowledge has Masumi been keeping from the major mystery parties: the middle brother, the child, and Conan? Why?
When laid out like this, Masumi's current motives and pre-arrival investigation are rather puzzling. Who are her targets and why? Her middle brother? Shuuichi? Shinichi? Shiho? Why is she not following up on certain leads?

For the middle brother we have...
  • Where is he and what is he doing? Why was he keeping on the lowdown?
  • How does he know Conan is reliable at mysteries? What does he know, and when did he meet or learn of Conan?
  • What is he not telling Masumi?
  • Why did Masumi suddenly claim to be meeting him (and then said she was going to blow him off) after apparently saying he was hard to get ahold of? What this an intentional fib to attract Conan's interest?
The mystery child has these questions...
  • Who is he/she/it and what is her relationship to the Akai family?
  • Why is the kid interested in Conan, what issue does the child have that requires her to trust Conan, but also dictates that she should hide from him?
  • Why did the child direct Masumi to lie(?) about her relationship to Masumi?
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by themasq »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Exia92 wrote: Also I believe that the two older brothers might look extremely similar.
The two older brothers were explicitly stated not to look alike in Volume 81, File 9 (859): pgs 6-7: "Jeet Kune Do vs. Karate".
Exia92 wrote:Also Sera said that the hat that she wore was a lot like her older brother's, but in every flashback that we've seen Akai(New York, Black organization, and current) he always wore a toboggan(knit cap, beanie).
That's not quite right. Sera said her hat has the same sort of feel as the ones her brother wore, but the wording is more like the fit or feeling of wearing it than physical appearance. The translators had a discussion over that line when the chapter came out that you might be able to find in the thread archive.
The next line was ''But, that's impossible.'' So, maybe she had a feeling Akai actually wore the hat (Which he did)?
Exia92 wrote: Subaru(don't believe he's Akai, that's too simple for Gosho)
This isn't a valid standalone criticism. People said the same thing about Amuro being Bourbon and Masumi being Akai's sister. Okiya has the Black Organization scent and has an attitude towards Haibara like he knew her in the past (Paraphrase: "you are like your sister I can predict all your moves"), and she him ("Don't make that face" = Moroboshi Dai).
Exia92 wrote:I've tried looking for the post that Chekhov made on Akai=Okiya and can't find it
All of my major theory posts are linked in Chekhov's Theories about the plot. DCW's wiki has a similar page. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=402&p=37837#p37837
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Re: Child in Chapter 875 (Might contain spoilers))

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

themasq wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Exia92 wrote:Also Sera said that the hat that she wore was a lot like her older brother's, but in every flashback that we've seen Akai(New York, Black organization, and current) he always wore a toboggan(knit cap, beanie).
That's not quite right. Sera said her hat has the same sort of feel as the ones her brother wore, but the wording is more like the fit or feeling of wearing it than physical appearance. The translators had a discussion over that line when the chapter came out that you might be able to find in the thread archive.
The next line was ''But, that's impossible.'' So, maybe she had a feeling Akai actually wore the hat (Which he did)?
The feeling Masumi has is that the hat feels like it was worn by her brother, but she follows up with "but that's impossible" because she thinks Akai is dead so he couldn't be him wearing her hat.

Honestly the way Masumi is reacting is confusing because she was confronted with someone who appeared like her brother on the train -- Scar Akai. I am guessing she has concluded that Scar Akai wasn't her brother because he attacked her - something the real Shuuichi would not do, and especially not with a tazer. Naturally that should lead to followup questions about why someone would attack her while in disguise as her brother, but Masumi doesn't seem to be investigating anyone about that which is odd. But then again the whole train case feels a bit sloppy logically, and followup speed by characters has been very inconsistent in the Bourbon and Akai family arcs, especially when Masumi is involved.
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