Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 850-852

[blurfbreg]

It could be Conan worked out that the dude was fishy, he might also figured out the "pregnant woman" was Vermouth since she overdid the Balloon, so he could have be suspecting those two are Amuro & Vermouth but Gosho don't want to reveal it yet.

I think it's exactly that.
There's that one scene where Conan thought in his mind to tell Jodie sorry, as though he was manipulating Jodie for some purpose of his own. I think Conan KNOWS that he was eavesdropped by someone else.
So I checked through the chapter and found that scene where he was shouting at Jodie to stop talking about things that aren't relevant, but it could be that he knew the bug was already by Jodie.
So the question is: what is Conan planning to do by letting Bourbon close? or is he just trying to avoid Bourbon? What does Conan want the Jodie and the FBI to investigate?

[Paix672]

It could be Conan worked out that the dude was fishy, he might also figured out the "pregnant woman" was Vermouth since she overdid the Balloon, so he could have be suspecting those two are Amuro & Vermouth but Gosho don't want to reveal it yet.

I think it's exactly that.
There's that one scene where Conan thought in his mind to tell Jodie sorry, as though he was manipulating Jodie for some purpose of his own. I think Conan KNOWS that he was eavesdropped by someone else.
So I checked through the chapter and found that scene where he was shouting at Jodie to stop talking about things that aren't relevant, but it could be that he knew the bug was already by Jodie.
So the question is: what is Conan planning to do by letting Bourbon close? or is he just trying to avoid Bourbon? What does Conan want the Jodie and the FBI to investigate?

He was probably sorry because he's hiding the fact that Akai is still alive and kicking from her. And I can't seem to remember, but does Jodie know that Conan has two cell phones? Because then, she could work out that the fingerprints found on the cell phone that match with the body belong to Rikumichi, and therefore that Akai faked his death (I think he yelled at her to prevent her from realizing that, using the irrelevancy of it as an excuse). Also, I highly doubt that Conan knew Jodie was bugged, otherwise he would have been more cautious, or even remove it himself, at least I would hope so.

[Pandora12]

Spoiler:

Jodie was worrying about who she thought was Akai so she probably wasn't paying a lot of attention to what the robber was saying so she didn't think anything was odd but Conan heard the robber and he only went back to the toilets when Jodie asked if she could go.

Spoiler:

Bourbon saying "Mo- Motoe!" could be another clue that he was an imposter that Conan should work out.

Saying someone's name that way, would mean that you almost forgot what the person's name was.

[Cider]

Bourbon saying "Mo- Motoe!" could be another clue that he was an imposter that Conan should work out.
Saying someone's name that way, would mean that you almost forgot what the person's name was.

I think you're over-analyzing it. They were acting as if the guy told his wife to stay home yet she came anyway, therefore obviously he was surprised to see her. It was all an act, and it'd be much more suspicious if Bourbon just went Oh-hi-Motoe-I-told-you-to-stay-home-why-are-you-here-by-the-way-you-look-sick.

[shubhoshinichi]

One question... is okiya really akai..?? Like it seems so as per Conan's reactions and many things are there that point towards it, but Gosho has always came up with something unexpected.

In the last arc, Bourbon was able to get hold of some precious information, what do you think it was??

The other thing would be something very confusing .. Amuro knew late date san. He is connected in more than one way, Akai's favorite drink was Bourbon.

[Pandora12]

Spoiler:

The man (Bourbon) said he didn't want to gargle the water because he was afraid he would pass his cold to somebody but he's had his cold mask pulled down most of the time and he didn't even put the cold mask back over his mouth when his pregnant wife (Vermouth) appeared so that proves that he wasn't really bothered if he passed his cold to anyone.

[Elixir]

-> Using Takagi as the key person to investigate the fingerprint

-> Using the relation of Amuro and Date, Date and Takagi

-> Bourbon being Amuro, the one who hates Akai, investigating his death

-> Bourbon collecting conclusive evidence

The mangaka sure is incredible. I think the Bourbon arc is the best crafted story arc in DC.

[mihai]

wanted to post right after I read the chapters, I was right about the masked man being Bourbon

He was probably sorry because he's hiding the fact that Akai is still alive and kicking from her. And I can't seem to remember, but does Jodie know that Conan has two cell phones? Because then, she could work out that the fingerprints found on the cell phone that match with the body belong to Rikumichi, and therefore that Akai faked his death (I think he yelled at her to prevent her from realizing that, using the irrelevancy of it as an excuse). Also, I highly doubt that Conan knew Jodie was bugged, otherwise he would have been more cautious, or even remove it himself, at least I would hope so.

I kinda missed on he theories about how Akai faked his death but from what you say he used Rikumichi's burned body and the fact that his finger prints were on the phone. Good thing that Jodie didn't ask Takagi to compare Akai's fingerprints with the corpse's fingerprints.

as for what Bourbon heard, it's clear that he knows of Conan's intelligence and his involvement with the FBI. He could also have heard about the phone but not how it's relevant and where it still is in case he figures out. Hopefully stalking Conan will seem more interesting

I hope Conan figured out that he lied about having bad eyesight after he easily saw Jodie and not the pickpocketer. Though it not clear whether he saw who pickpocketed him and it's easier to see/remember a foreigner

[Incomplete-tantei]

I hope Conan figured out that he lied about having bad eyesight after he easily saw Jodie and not the pickpocketer. Though it not clear whether he saw who pickpocketed him and it's easier to see/remember a foreigner

I hope he realized he lied too, that'd be actually really interesting. It would be even more interesting if he realized that he was  Bourbon all along but just pretended that he knew nothing. Of course it'd be after he thought "Why does Bourbon still need to impersonate Akai-san?" but then it's not very probable, that would make Conan even more "perfect" than he already is, and well, the ball has to be in Bourbon's court sometimes.

[barno]

Something bothers me and is not that much discussed here.

There is a mistake between the fact that those in the bank who were without companions were the ones told to tape people up, and the fact that "the guy" is saying he and his wife were among them.

So, who made that mistake ?
I would go for :
3% : Gosho Aoyama
7% : The true married cuple who were so scared in the bank they didn't understand the robbers orders
90% : Bourbon

I don't feel like it's Gosho Aoyama. I mean thee "detail" isn't a detail, the main trick is based on that ! And saying that the wife was in the bank too add no information, he could had a wife even if she was not in the bank.

Even if the original bank cuple made a mistake, there was no reason for Bourbon to use say it explicitely, because he would appear suspicious.

So the most probable explanation is "Bourbon made that mistake".

New question : If Bourbon made that mistake, why ?
My guess :
0% : He is dumb
1% : He just said it, he didn't realise
99% : He explicitly said something suspicious

(I won't explain here, he proves he was very clever and he was good to remember and take into account a lot of small details)

So now, why did he explicitly wanted to look suspicious :
40% : He wanted to look at the reaction of Jodie and Conan to that lie
60% : He wanted to send a signal to Jodie and Conan that Vermouth would not understand

If Scar Akai in the bank was Bourbon (he didn't speak, so he may be Bourbon), Bourbon, Conan and Jodie know that the situation is fishy, but Vermouth doesn't.

Saying what he said as the first thing in the conversation is like saying "Hey, I'm a big bag of lies... And by the way, I met Scar Akai the other day".

So what bothers me is :

Why, with so much indications, we can see Conan asking himself "Why is Bourbon wandering as Scar Akai even now ?" instead of wandering "Why is this guy lying ?"

[Jecka]

I'm sorry...what?

[Incomplete-tantei]

@barno : what signal are you talking about ? Bourbon isn't about to/didn't team up with Jodie and Conan so there's no reason for him to send a "signal" to them so Vermouth wouldn't understand...
Bourbon isn't gonna deceive Vermouth either.. they're working together and Bourbon needs Vermouth's help in his investigations.

[barno]

@barno : what signal are you talking about ? Bourbon isn't about to/didn't team up with Jodie and Conan so there's no reason for him to send a "signal" to them so Vermouth wouldn't understand...
Bourbon isn't gonna deceive Vermouth either.. they're working together and Bourbon needs Vermouth's help in his investigations.

What I'm trying to find is why did Bourbon tell Conan & Jodie such obvious lie about having a wife. The signal thing is just a possible explanation : perhaps Bourbon has it's own goal that is slightly (or radically) different than the goal assigned by the Black Organization. There is something secrete about the relation Date/Bourbon that we still don't know.

[Incomplete-tantei]

What I'm trying to find is why did Bourbon tell Conan & Jodie such obvious lie about having a wife.

My guess is that Bourbon took the risk to say he was accompanied by his wife so he could say he recognized Jodie. If Conan or Jodie had asked something like "how come your wife taped Jodie/me while you were accompanied?" then he'd probably answer like you said "We were too scared to understand the robber's orders..." but because it has been like several months (not sure about the length) since that robbery case, they didn't mind such a detail. In other words, Bourbon took the risk to say that lie.
I wouldn't be that surprised though, it has been Bourbon's attitude since the beginning, to take risks that is.

The signal thing is just a possible explanation : perhaps Bourbon has it's own goal that is slightly (or radically) different than the goal assigned by the Black Organization. There is something secrete about the relation Date/Bourbon that we still don't know.

And Bourbon's own goal is to ascertain Akai's alive for the moment. It's not a goal the B.O assigned him, the B.O doesn't even doubt (except Vermouth and Bourbon) that Akai might be alive. Agreed with the Date/Bourbon relation we don't really know yet. It has to be detailed later on but priority now is to find Akai.

[Tenryu]

but because it has been like several months (not sure about the length) since that robbery case, they didn't mind such a detail. In other words, Bourbon took the risk to say that lie.

except the "main" trick of the robbery case is based on that (as barno has said). so there's a high chance that Conan and Jodie remember about it.

Or maybe it's Gosho way to tell reader, "this guy is someone in disguise"