Today's Bad Stories !

[GinRei]

Btw, I agree with Miaka on the increased mental healthcare all the way (and in most countries improvement in that is *needed*). Taking the focus off the culprit is also good, but I think that certain people (like police and obviously courts) should still have some access to info about any factors surrounding the culprit (such as mental health issues, family situations, if there were any warning signs and so on) in order to help prevent and look out for more instances of this.

"Focus" by the media, not investigations.  Police and law enforcement in general wouldn't have any less information.  If they do, it'd they get their info from the media, which is beyond stupid and dangerous anyway, so it'd be good they'd have less info.

It's the homeowners whose first response to a suspected burglar is to grab a gun and shoot rather than call the police, whose first response is to try to kill someone. It's the people who keep loaded guns around, have parties and have stupid ideas for party games.

Takes Police quite a while to arrive.  If the burglar is good, they can be in and out with anything of value in under 4 minutes.  That reminds me, I miss the show "It Takes a Thief".  I'd also say your last example is an example of Darwinism at work, and should be allowed.

As for keeping it in a safe: that kind of negates the whole "I need it to protect my home" thing.  Gun doesn't do any good if it's in another room or takes forever to get to.  Still shouldn't be accessable by children, though.

I'm not proposing we disallow all firearms, but the assault rifle ban needs to be re-instituted.

It was never removed.  It's still illegal to own assault weapons.  But like Commie said, what an actual "assault weapon" is versus what the media calls them is different. 

[mangaluva]

I worry about that "I need to protect my home" thing. It seems to exist solely in America. I've been talking to most of my mates about this as well, and all of them are of the opinion of "call the police and it's your own damn fault for not locking the window". A couple of them were all for assaulting the burglar if he's smaller than you, but all of them freaked out at the idea of shooting a burglar, because you can kill someone that way.

It also worries me about just how bad the police must be in America. It's their job to protect people from criminals. That's why you have a police force. Another reason I'm quite glad I no longer live in the US, now... I mean, crime rate in my hometown is pretty low, but the last burglary incident I recall hearing of, the police were on the scene and caught the burglar fleeing. The incident before that, a few months before, they didn't catch the burglar on the scene but were able to track him down and get all of the stolen items returned.

Seriously, all this talk of lethal force as if it's the natural first response to a burglary just sounds mental and more than a little frightening to me. A burglary is just stuff. You're talking about incidents where somebody is going to wind up hurt or dead. Doesn't sound worth it.

[dilbertschalter]

I worry about that "I need to protect my home" thing. It seems to exist solely in America. I've been talking to most of my mates about this as well, and all of them are of the opinion of "call the police and it's your own damn fault for not locking the window". A couple of them were all for assaulting the burglar if he's smaller than you, but all of them freaked out at the idea of shooting a burglar, because you can kill someone that way.

It also worries me about just how bad the police must be in America. It's their job to protect people from criminals. That's why you have a police force. Another reason I'm quite glad I no longer live in the US, now... I mean, crime rate in my hometown is pretty low, but the last burglary incident I recall hearing of, the police were on the scene and caught the burglar fleeing. The incident before that, a few months before, they didn't catch the burglar on the scene but were able to track him down and get all of the stolen items returned.

Seriously, all this talk of lethal force as if it's the natural first response to a burglary just sounds mental and more than a little frightening to me. A burglary is just stuff. You're talking about incidents where somebody is going to wind up hurt or dead. Doesn't sound worth it.

The idea is more that it's a deterrent. America does in fact have lower rates of most non-miurder crimes than Western Europe (and the UK especially) so I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand even if it's somewhat dubious.

[GinRei]

I worry about that "I need to protect my home" thing. It seems to exist solely in America. I've been talking to most of my mates about this as well, and all of them are of the opinion of "call the police and it's your own damn fault for not locking the window". A couple of them were all for assaulting the burglar if he's smaller than you, but all of them freaked out at the idea of shooting a burglar, because you can kill someone that way.

I'd say watch It Takes a Thief, but it's not on the air anymore and doesn't seem to have been released on DVD/Bluray, and I doubt most torrents would still be active.  Basically, locking windows and doors means nothing.  It's not difficult at all to shatter either if you don't have top of the line equipment (which includes laminating your windows, which no one does).  And how do you know if the burglar is smaller than you or not without seeing them?  If you can see them, they can see you, and they're more likely to assault you than you are them.  And there's the ever present danger of them being armed.

It also worries me about just how bad the police must be in America. It's their job to protect people from criminals. That's why you have a police force.

I believe the Supreme Court ruled that isn't the case.  Yes, the Supreme Court is fracked up.

Seriously, all this talk of lethal force as if it's the natural first response to a burglary just sounds mental and more than a little frightening to me. A burglary is just stuff. You're talking about incidents where somebody is going to wind up hurt or dead. Doesn't sound worth it.

So criminals should be able to do whatever they want, as long as they're faster/smarter than the police?  That's ridiculous.  They're criminals.  If they get hurt or killed in the middle of a crime, that's on them, not the victim.  Maybe they shouldn't have resorted to crime.

And I'm not even a pro-gun person.

[Callid]

I agree with mangaluva, it's the police's job to deal with such things. Yes, thieves can break into a house even if windows and doors are closed, but it nonetheless reduces the likeliness significantly - why should you break into a house where you have to smash a window, creating noise that may be heard, when you simply climb in through an open window on the next one? (Also, it should be noted that, in Germany one third of all thievery attempts fail due to in-place safety equipment, which is especially notable considering that they are, especially on windows, anything but common.)
BTW, isn't that what you have a contents insurance for anyway? :x

There is much of a difference between defending your home by driving the thief off, and killing them. Over here, at least, it is considered self-defence to the former, while the latter is manslaughter. Basically, you always must choose the least extreme option available that does not endanger yourself. Therefore, calling the police is usually #1, and if you confronted/are confronted by the thief, using a gun is only really justifiable if he is also armed or you have no other weapon available, and even then, you may only shoot him if you actually need to, if he surrenders or runs away, once again it wouldn't be self-defence.

[mangaluva]

I'd say watch It Takes a Thief, but it's not on the air anymore and doesn't seem to have been released on DVD/Bluray, and I doubt most torrents would still be active.  Basically, locking windows and doors means nothing.  It's not difficult at all to shatter either if you don't have top of the line equipment (which includes laminating your windows, which no one does).  And how do you know if the burglar is smaller than you or not without seeing them?  If you can see them, they can see you, and they're more likely to assault you than you are them.  And there's the ever present danger of them being armed.

A couple of my mates are all for it, but I'm not. I'm not particularly violent anyway. Although you can easily see someone from behind without them noticing you, if you're quiet and they're busy. But either way, it's not a response I'd take myself. Doesn't seem worth risking your life over your TV.

It also worries me about just how bad the police must be in America. It's their job to protect people from criminals. That's why you have a police force.

I believe the Supreme Court ruled that isn't the case.  Yes, the Supreme Court is fracked up.

...What. Then what's the point of the police?

So criminals should be able to do whatever they want, as long as they're faster/smarter than the police?  That's ridiculous.  They're criminals.  If they get hurt or killed in the middle of a crime, that's on them, not the victim.  Maybe they shouldn't have resorted to crime.
And I'm not even a pro-gun person.

Not remotely what I said. Criminals should not be allowed to get away with crime, that's why it's crime. But if they're non-violent criminals, then shooting at them is excessive force and not okay. Also, check the use of the word "resorted". To "resort" to crime implies that you have literally nothing else-- no job prospects, no support, no income whatsoever. I don't think anyone should choose crime. I think everyone should be ale to have a job that pays enough to live on. Sadly, that is not always the case.

There's guys selling Big Issue all over the place in Edinburgh. One of them, that I stopped to chat to while waiting to a friend, is having a hard time getting a job because applications all want him to have a permanent address, which obviously he doesn't have. His brother recently got arrested for housebreaking because he was unemployed, him and his kids were being evicted and he was having no success in getting a job (even when you're looking and have qualifications, right now, it's a struggle. It took me two years to find a job.) This guy's brother had offered him the chance to housebreak with him, and he refused. Now he and his wife are selling Big Issues and they've given up any hope of ever having kids together because they will never be able to afford it.

Long rant is long, but crime isn't always something that people pick because they're too lazy for real work, and there is a lot of social work as well as police work that needs done to deal with crime.

I also think that you and I have completely different ideas of what an acceptable level of violence is, and for that matter what a normal level of violence is.

Edit: RM'd by Callid, but I agree with him completely. Violence should not ever be the first response to burglary, which is not a violent crime unless the burglar directly accosts you, and it's frankly stupid for a burglar to go out of their way to attack the homeowner because assault and murder charges are much, much worse than burglary charges.

[Stopwatch]

I'm agreeing with most of what Manga and Callid are saying here :x *ducks out of thread*

[kei]

I'm agreeing with most of what Manga and Callid are saying here :x *ducks out of thread*

^

[GinRei]

...What. Then what's the point of the police?

No one knows.  If I recall, the case in question was someone suing the police for not responding to a call, which resulted in them being hospitalized from domestic abuse or something along those lines.  The Supreme Court ruled that the police are not required to protect you, and as such threw the lawsuit out.  Yes, the Supreme Court's been rather craptastic the past 10 years or so.

Also, having a gun to protect your house doesn't mean you have to shoot them.  Often times just having the gun and them seeing you hold it is enough to drive them out, provided they aren't also holding a gun.  And odds are, even if they brought one, they aren't actively holding it, since they need to rummage with both hands, giving you time to pull the trigger if they reach for theirs.

I'd also like to point out that saying it's someone's own fault for leaving a window open, and that they won't be robbed if they're locked because someone nearby will leave them unlocked is a rather circular argument.  If your house appears to have nice things, and there isn't someone else nearby who leaves their stuff unlocked, then you will be robbed if someone wants to rob it.  It's like the old "Look to your left, now your right.  One of those people will not graduate" thing, where someone's going to be looking at you too.

[Commi-Ninja]

...What. Then what's the point of the police?

No one knows.  If I recall, the case in question was someone suing the police for not responding to a call, which resulted in them being hospitalized from domestic abuse or something along those lines.  The Supreme Court ruled that the police are not required to protect you, and as such threw the lawsuit out.  Yes, the Supreme Court's been rather craptastic the past 10 years or so.

Also, having a gun to protect your house doesn't mean you have to shoot them.  Often times just having the gun and them seeing you hold it is enough to drive them out, provided they aren't also holding a gun.  And odds are, even if they brought one, they aren't actively holding it, since they need to rummage with both hands, giving you time to pull the trigger if they reach for theirs.

I'd also like to point out that saying it's someone's own fault for leaving a window open, and that they won't be robbed if they're locked because someone nearby will leave them unlocked is a rather circular argument.  If your house appears to have nice things, and there isn't someone else nearby who leaves their stuff unlocked, then you will be robbed if someone wants to rob it.  It's like the old "Look to your left, now your right.  One of those people will not graduate" thing, where someone's going to be looking at you too.

I agree with GinRei.

Also, the police in America are not all that perhaps they should be.  Part of it's a poor reputation, but I think worse still is the sheer level of stupidity not only in the Supreme Court, but also Congress and the Executive Branch.  When you have a burglar sue a homeowner whose house he broke into over being injured while in the process of robbing said homeowner, and wins the case, we've got a problem.

[KainTheVampire]

Overslept two days in a row I even went to sleep early yesterday so it wouldn't happen and there was no point in going to school when I woke up since school ends in two hours

Get dressed (5 min)
Go to the bus (around 20 min because they haven't plowed, I can't use the shortcut unless I want snow up to my knees)
Wait for the bus (around 5 min because it's late)
Sitting on the bus (normally 20 min but a few minutes more because of the snow)
Go to school (about 20 min because of ice on the plowed road)
Go up to the 7th floor to get stuff from my locker and then to the 6th (about 5 minutes)

So around 75 minutes D:

[miakakiri]

Overslept two days in a row I even went to sleep early yesterday so it wouldn't happen and there was no point in going to school when I woke up since school ends in two hours

Get dressed (5 min)
Go to the bus (around 20 min because they haven't plowed, I can't use the shortcut unless I want snow up to my knees)
Wait for the bus (around 5 min because it's late)
Sitting on the bus (normally 20 min but a few minutes more because of the snow)
Go to school (about 20 min because of ice on the plowed road)
Go up to the 7th floor to get stuff from my locker and then to the 6th (about 5 minutes)

So around 75 minutes D:

Ouch. *huggles*

My upsets:
I still have no idea what to do for Secret Santa, and I don't know how to ask for brainstorming assistance without messing up the game.
I have 3 completed xmas gifts, of which one is actually due on the 25th. 2 of the ones with just the front cut out need to be done for the 25th, and there are 2 more that need elastics and buttons for the 25th. Then there are the ones I need for the 1st, of which 1 is all done, 1 needs a start-over, 1 needs elastic and button, and 1 only has the front cut out. Toss in there the one I need for the 29th, which is all cut out but not even pinned.
I may be able to get Archi to put together cookie dough for me, since it's fairly easy to follow the recipe and just keep dumping things into the food processor. And then I can play with the cookie press to get them set up for baking.
I spent all day the 19th hiding in the bathroom because of migraines. Grrr...

[KainTheVampire]

Overslept two days in a row I even went to sleep early yesterday so it wouldn't happen and there was no point in going to school when I woke up since school ends in two hours

Get dressed (5 min)
Go to the bus (around 20 min because they haven't plowed, I can't use the shortcut unless I want snow up to my knees)
Wait for the bus (around 5 min because it's late)
Sitting on the bus (normally 20 min but a few minutes more because of the snow)
Go to school (about 20 min because of ice on the plowed road)
Go up to the 7th floor to get stuff from my locker and then to the 6th (about 5 minutes)

So around 75 minutes D:

Ouch. *huggles*

My upsets:
I still have no idea what to do for Secret Santa, and I don't know how to ask for brainstorming assistance without messing up the game.
I have 3 completed xmas gifts, of which one is actually due on the 25th. 2 of the ones with just the front cut out need to be done for the 25th, and there are 2 more that need elastics and buttons for the 25th. Then there are the ones I need for the 1st, of which 1 is all done, 1 needs a start-over, 1 needs elastic and button, and 1 only has the front cut out. Toss in there the one I need for the 29th, which is all cut out but not even pinned.
I may be able to get Archi to put together cookie dough for me, since it's fairly easy to follow the recipe and just keep dumping things into the food processor. And then I can play with the cookie press to get them set up for baking.
I spent all day the 19th hiding in the bathroom because of migraines. Grrr...

*hugs back*

Maybe you could ask Conia if it's okay to ask for an idea from another person on DCTP who's not on the Secret Santa?

[Raiden]

My upsets:
I still have no idea what to do for Secret Santa, and I don't know how to ask for brainstorming assistance without messing up the game.

Maybe you could ask Conia if it's okay to ask for an idea from another person on DCTP who's not on the Secret Santa?

Just ask Conia. He is the local stalker-bush after all, and might be able to help you out.

[mangaluva]

It's bucketing with rain... but I wanted to go visit the Palace today D:

(There was a huge fire in the Palace in 1749 and it hasn't been roofed since. It's not a pleasant place to be when it's raining.)