Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

I see the Akai/Shiho dynamic as a clear and unambigious setup for a dramatic rescue at some point (and not anything romantic). Because of the way Gosho writes plots[1], Akai has the "obligation" to have some sort of hero moment involving Shiho because he has to make up for his past failures and look cool. For a guy who has a history of hero moments (showdown with Vermouth, sniping Gin, chasing Rikumichi) and who is a homage to cool-type character Char Aznable (whom Gosho adores), he is guaranteed to do something big eventually.
Shiho will be the likely motivator because Shiho's issues have completely taken over Akai's plot now that his past has been relatively sorted out; Akai "broke" his promise to Shiho to protect Akemi, he is waiting for the right time to talk to her, and I think it is likely Akemi asked Akai to look after Shiho in the PS of her last text message.
I believe a dramatic rescue is much more likely than a no-danger verbal showdown between them. Akai really hasn't had a strong hero moment specifically with Shiho yet. Ran jumping on Haibara overshadowed his forcing the Black Org back during the showdown with Vermouth. He protected her a few times as Okiya, but those moments were pretty weak, especially in the train case where he basically just scared her into hiding and nothing was really resolved.

TLDR: This Akai/Shiho business is happening because Gosho is probably setting up Akai to rescue Shiho

On a slightly different note, this sort of plot obligation logic is really useful for predicting how the story will go next. The lack of real resolution in the train case and remaining unanswered questions signal that it was not the climax, the Bourbon arc is still running, and more drama will eventually happen. While that seems pretty obvious, stating it outright like that makes it easier to pick apart the plot Gosho is trying to create. The train case identified the identities/allegiances of the various mystery characters, set Sherry's status to dead, made sure Akai's status remained unsettled for Bourbon, and centered Bourbon's attention on Conan's identity.
My predicted plot obligations are as follows assuming we will return to "standard Conan plot" eventually:
  • Akai is going to save Shiho at some point as mentioned above. Shiho will also have some sort of confrontation with him to resolve Akemi. Akai knows Conan's identity and it will be relevant sometime.
  • Shiho cannot stay out of danger forever; her BO plot role since her first appearance was to be hunted down and it will take the destruction of the Org by Conan to stop it. Also the confrontation with Akai needs to happen.
  • Conan always has secret identity leaking issues. Ran has some slow building suspicion. Sera has been asking the same sorts of questions as Eisuke. Amuro is now looking into Conan. Akai knows it already but will eventually have to talk about it.
  • Amuro is going to need to have a real face to face showdown with Akai. He can't not after having his hate and rivalry set up; he'd be completely impotent as a character otherwise. Also we have Date to resolve.
  • Sera seems pretty well patterned after Eisuke[2], so she will be closely involved in unmasking Okiya, although the story may only include her in ways that could have easily been written differently to make her irrelevant.
  • Vermouth owes Conan again for half breaking her promise to leave Shiho alone.
  • Kaitou Kid is officially involved, so he could be dragged back in as needed.
TLDR: Bourbon arc not over because characters have listed obligations to the plot to fulfill first.

It's pretty easy to start connecting likely dots. If Akai is going to save Shiho dramatically, she must be threatened. Amuro is the most likely threat source because he and Akai need to have a clear fight. Sherry is dead to the Org for now, so the post train arc is going to start on Conan's identity first. Ran, Sera, and Amuro may be involved here. For the plot to get back around to Shiho, it will probably have to go through Conan first to reach her. Maybe Amuro will figure out Conan's identity and then find Shiho's from there, or it will go the other way around and he will see Haibara and guess what happened to Conan. Evidence/news/etc of Sherry still being alive should make it back to the Org to threaten her again. The main problem is if news of Akai does as well, Kir is out. Gosho will have to contrive a way to let information about Shiho out, but not Akai. Conan's absolutely can't get back to the Org at all. Amuro's "soft" personality here may contrive this (echos of Date?) and he will keep their secrets for some reason. Alternatively, Vermouth, to repay the favor, can potentially force Amuro to keep quiet somehow, or even kill him because she has a bad guy license to kill. Akai could also kill him, but I see that as less likely. Amuro has the survived-one-case anti-death plot armor.

TLDR: Used logic to guess the upcoming plot.

[1]Examples of Gosho setting up situations where certain characters were plot-obligated to be heroes...
  • Megure "failed" to keep his wife from danger when she was hit by a car while acting as bait. Megure became Sonoko's obligated hero and makes up for the past by getting to her first and keeping her from danger when it reminds him of his wife's case.
  • Sato's father's death was set up to be a weak spot for Sato, so she was the one who defeats her father's murderer in a battle of wits. Takagi had an important moment with the case solving and handcuffs because he is obligated to prove himself worthy of being Sato's destined lover.
  • In the Matsuda case, we find out Sato loved Matsuda, but he is dead and Sato is angsty about it. The story was pretty much designed to replace Matsuda with Takagi. Naturally, Takagi takes the commanding role in the plot while Sato is mostly useless because she couldn't act strongly without also weakening Takagi's standing relative to hers (and by proxy Matsuda's).
  • Yamato cleans up his unsolved mentor's murder that has bothered him personally and kept him from being with likely-destined-lover Uehara in the the Fuurinkaazan case. His spotlight moment is a dramatic armor appearance and fight.
  • When Kogoro's cases get personal, he becomes more competent because the plot demands he specifically has to right the wrongs to avoid being a complete failure type. This often happens around Eri because Gosho is trying to show he is still good enough for her.
  • Antagonist example: Gin rescued Vodka from Conan's plan in Black Footprint because Conan could not be allowed to gain an advantage over the Black Org yet even though Vodka is "below" Conan's level. Gin specifically stepped in because he is Conan's main rival. (Even though the boss is Conan's Moriarty, that person is still an abstract plot force.)
[2]Eisuke's plot obligation ensured he was put into the climax of the Kir arc even though he didn't actually need to be there at all for the story to happen. Despite Red versus Black's plot being mostly about the FBI and Black Organization fighting each other via bombs and wits, Eisuke was written into the climax because he was a major arc character and younger-brother-with-a-mission-to-find-sister. The only plot things he did were alert Conan to BO being at the hospital and then wake Rena up; Gosho could have easily written it so someone else did these instead. Eisuke was the first one to confront and awaken Rena, because the plot handed him a series of fortunate events (ironically enough) that allowed Eisuke to figure out what happened to Rena and then get close to her. For example, a fan of Rena has an unrelated case Eisuke could use to convince Kogoro to go to so he could make contact with the only witness to Rena's accident who would talk to him, he overheard someone dialing the boss's phone number in the hospital so he knew it was the right place, a school friend in the hospital could hide him and allow him to search, etc.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by El Huesudo II »

Makes sense! But, hey, you're Chek after all.

Though I don't like the idea of info about Haibara being Shiho reaching the Black Org. This may be wishful thinking on my behalf, but I believe Haibara was freed from the persecution plot she was bound to because she has a bigger part to play in the plot from now on. It was already foreshadowed in the Mystery Train arc: the tapes are important, the antidote she's trying to make is very important too, and we know she has other pools of information that are hidden from the rest of the cast and the audience (see: the damaged floppy disk. If it still works, or if its data can be somehow recovered or already was by Haibara, then it could serve as a future plot point or big reveal).

The only setting where I could be OK with Haibara going back to being persecuted would be a setting that bore a very special fruit: The obtention of APTX4869 samples by the main cast. IIRC, they require that in order to drop the guesswork and synthesize a true antidote?
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by Pmofmalasia »

I think they need the drug's data more than the actual drug itself, which would be the data on that floppy disc.  Because the only reason you would need to have the drug is to see how it works, its chemical structure, etc. and the data should already contain all of that.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by ShihoShinichiLxxxR »

hello~~ :) Shiho+Subaru =betray sister? no cheating :D peace~
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by El Huesudo II »

Pmofmalasia wrote: I think they need the drug's data more than the actual drug itself, which would be the data on that floppy disc.  Because the only reason you would need to have the drug is to see how it works, its chemical structure, etc. and the data should already contain all of that.
Well yeah, but it's a damaged floppy disk. Not a secure or resilient piece of media at all.

Not to mention BO files require a BO computer to run without a hitch. So it's either them getting a BO computer, or them getting an APTX sample. (Or, you know, Haibara asking a certain 1337 h4xx0r that lives next door for a little help...)
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by Pmofmalasia »

El Huesudo II wrote:
Pmofmalasia wrote: I think they need the drug's data more than the actual drug itself, which would be the data on that floppy disc.  Because the only reason you would need to have the drug is to see how it works, its chemical structure, etc. and the data should already contain all of that.
Well yeah, but it's a damaged floppy disk. Not a secure or resilient piece of media at all.

Not to mention BO files require a BO computer to run without a hitch. So it's either them getting a BO computer, or them getting an APTX sample. (Or, you know, Haibara asking a certain 1337 h4xx0r that lives next door for a little help...)
Oh yeah I was just saying that they'd rather have the data than the drug.  We don't really know what's on the floppy/how damaged it is, so it really depends on that whether they'd need a sample of APTX to complete their data or not.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by kirite »

If it's not romantic it should at least be family affection.  Dated older sister = look out for you as an older brother for your sister sake kinda thing?  Akemi wanted to protect Shiho afterall, if Akai dated her he can't not know.  

If it IS romantic it COULD be that the reason why Shiho knows so much about relationship despite being raised in a criminal organisation lab making drugs is because she used to like/date Akai.  Could be before Akemi or could be just a crush.  If Shinichi is her type then Akai isn't too far off just saying lol.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by AICHAN »

kirite wrote: If it's not romantic it should at least be family affection.  Dated older sister = look out for you as an older brother for your sister sake kinda thing?  Akemi wanted to protect Shiho afterall, if Akai dated her he can't not know. 

If it IS romantic it COULD be that the reason why Shiho knows so much about relationship despite being raised in a criminal organisation lab making drugs is because she used to like/date Akai.  Could be before Akemi or could be just a crush.  If Shinichi is her type then Akai isn't too far off just saying lol.
that's what I think...

I won't be bothered if there was something romantic between them...Either way their interactions will be very interesting to watch,even if he only considers her like a sister.
I think it is interesting for Ai to have an ally who knows the Shiho from the past.We could know more things about Shiho through Akai.And if she forgives him,it will be a proof that she really has changed a lot,and became a better person.
As for Akai,if he wins Ai's trust ,he will finally be able to move on Akemi's death.He may become a more caring person since he will have to protect Ai.
They will both bring something to each other.
And there is also Sera,I kinda hope they will be closer bacause of Akai....Ai will see how much Sera cares about her brother.It will bring back good memories of her relationship with Akemi.
I'm just waiting for Gosho to put everything in place.Let's hope he won't disappoint us about that point.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by ProfParanoia »

kirite wrote: If it IS romantic it COULD be that the reason why Shiho knows so much about relationship despite being raised in a criminal organisation lab making drugs is because she used to like/date Akai.  Could be before Akemi or could be just a crush.  If Shinichi is her type then Akai isn't too far off just saying lol.
1.) What does that even mean?
2.) She's also stated she's been bullied for being Japanese, so I don't think she was super cut off from the rest of the world.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by kirite »

ProfParanoia wrote:
kirite wrote: If it IS romantic it COULD be that the reason why Shiho knows so much about relationship despite being raised in a criminal organisation lab making drugs is because she used to like/date Akai.  Could be before Akemi or could be just a crush.  If Shinichi is her type then Akai isn't too far off just saying lol.
1.) What does that even mean?
2.) She's also stated she's been bullied for being Japanese, so I don't think she was super cut off from the rest of the world.

1) Nothing really...I just mean she knows a lot about relationships?  She could have dated anyone really, so I say oh that can include Akai btw.  Could be Gin or whoever or no one /shrug.   

2) She was made fun of, and never sat with people at lunch eating together, and was a part of an organisation so she never got close to anyone.  I thought she always hinted at how she never had the type of friendship before joining with Conan and the Detective Boys.  Whenever the kids care about her at the beginning she always looked surprise and generally has a belief that if she doesn't get close to anyone they won't get hurt. 
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by ProfParanoia »

kirite wrote:
ProfParanoia wrote:
kirite wrote: If it IS romantic it COULD be that the reason why Shiho knows so much about relationship despite being raised in a criminal organisation lab making drugs is because she used to like/date Akai.  Could be before Akemi or could be just a crush.  If Shinichi is her type then Akai isn't too far off just saying lol.
1.) What does that even mean?
2.) She's also stated she's been bullied for being Japanese, so I don't think she was super cut off from the rest of the world.

1) Nothing really...I just mean she knows a lot about relationships?  She could have dated anyone really, so I say oh that can include Akai btw.  Could be Gin or whoever or no one /shrug.   

2) She was made fun of, and never sat with people at lunch eating together, and was a part of an organisation so she never got close to anyone.  I thought she always hinted at how she never had the type of friendship before joining with Conan and the Detective Boys.  Whenever the kids care about her at the beginning she always looked surprise and generally has a belief that if she doesn't get close to anyone they won't get hurt. 
1.) I doubt it's still there if she did, given how she crapped herself just seeing Akai driving down the street.

2.) But she was still around people, even if she did manage to grow up in the only town that consists purely of Skinheads. The point was she can know about relationships beyond wanting to date her sister's boyfriend.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by MaitreDétective »

El Huesudo II wrote:
I mean, the man USED TO DATE HER LATE SISTER. Any attempt to hook up with Shiho would be in "rebound zone" and would render Shiho as the "replacement" for her late sister.

funny, that's the plot of "Arrow" :P
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by mikiomi »

umm what are the chances that okiya is NOT akai :D
i think then the plot would really thicken.
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by Jecka »

MaitreDétective wrote:
El Huesudo II wrote:
I mean, the man USED TO DATE HER LATE SISTER. Any attempt to hook up with Shiho would be in "rebound zone" and would render Shiho as the "replacement" for her late sister.

funny, that's the plot of "Arrow" :P
lol :P
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Re: Okiya subaru is the new hero of Shiho

Post by El Huesudo II »

MaitreDétective wrote:
El Huesudo II wrote:
I mean, the man USED TO DATE HER LATE SISTER. Any attempt to hook up with Shiho would be in "rebound zone" and would render Shiho as the "replacement" for her late sister.

funny, that's the plot of "Arrow" :P
The fact that it's used in media doesn't mean it's a good thing to do. Oh and thanks for the heads up, I'll promptly avoid Arrow.
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