Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 828-830

[Kor]

As I said before, I don't think it'd be easy to knock Sera out without retaliation on her part, plus Kid isn't familiarized enough with her.

Have to argue on this point. Going with the mindset of "she knows martial arts and it'd be hard to knock her out" is wrong because Sera isn't superman supergirl. If you tase her or put her to sleep, it will have an effect on her. Kid is capable enough (not to mention, he has an author's favoritism here too. Meta thinking, I know)
We also can't determine much about Sera (after the bathroom) since she only had one line (and not one that indicates much).

Truthfully, though, Sonoko has been in enough Kid cases, and even though she's not too different from any other fangirl, Kid took enough notice of her (her being a Suzuki is also a pro in disguising as her since she's always close enough to the jewels), and she's the only member of the "regular cast of Kid cases" that Kid didn't disguise as yet.

[El Huesudo II]

Truthfully, though, Sonoko has been in enough Kid cases [...] and she's the only member of the "regular cast of Kid cases" that Kid didn't disguise as yet.

This is another reason I suspect her. It's very likely that Kid has taken notice of her because she's almost always there watching his heists, and he might already know how she behaves.

I might be stretching it by saying Sera is a hard target because of her Jeet-Kun-Do, sure enough, but I stand by my point of "Kid isn't familiarized enough with her", this would be merely the 2nd time she's involved in a case that concerns him and they haven't interacted much. I doubt he could act like her convincingly at this point. It would kinda be begging Conan to stop him before the heist.

And I doubt he'd let that happen again. I mean, for all Kid knows, Conan might involve him in cases with guns, explosions, and 'those bad guys of his' again as a form of 'debt payment'.

[Kor]

Perhaps just be looking at her, Kid realized Sera barely has any sort of an exceptional personality, so it'd be easy enough to "be her" [/sarcasm]

And I doubt he'd let that happen again. I mean, for all Kid knows, Conan might involve him in cases with guns, explosions, and 'those bad guys of his' again as a form of 'debt payment'.

Can you clarify this last bit?

[El Huesudo II]

Can you clarify this last bit?

Oh, I was just making a joke about how Kid wouldn't like the idea of helping Conan again with the BO after he almost explodes in the train.

[leokiko]

I bet Conan will manage to get Kid this time but will let him go once Kid talks about the Bell Express ;]

[kuro_shiro]

Due to Bourbon's proficient in investigation, perception and gathering of information, can't he find out Sherry in Bell Tree Express is actually Kid in disguise?

Nope.

Spoiler: Collapsed for lenght

Investigation, perception, and info gathering all have its limits. Even if you consider Bourbon's skills are as good as people claim they are (it seems he's finally showing his expertise - he might suck as a secret agent, but noticing Conan is behind Sleeping Kogoro is pretty damn good detective work, it took him almost as long as it took Heiji to notice it, and Heiji is considered a genius).

But no matter how good Bourbon is, he simply can't deduce what's impossible to deduce; and I say it's impossible to deduce it because he doesn't have all the information he needs - and it's highly unlikely he'll get it.

To get to the "Kid was Sherry" conclusion, he'd have to fulfill this list:

a) Know Kid was on the train
b) Suspect Kid and Sherry were partners
c) Suspect Sherry had planned to deceive them by using Kid

I must disagree. For bourbon to figure out that KID played him requires only two things to happen.

1)Find or learn about the Mask. You might say it could be Yukiko's Mask, but Vermouth was with her and she never would have been where the
mask was found.
2) Learn from Vermouth who could disguise so good. The list will be three - Vermouth, Yukiko, and KID. As two of the three were accounted for, that leaves one left - KID

You might say well that mask was used for the video. But if that is true then, The train becomes a certain trap. After all why make a fake Sherry Mask and post that video? The chances of it being by chance are very low.

So if the video is a fake then again the chances of the Real Sherry being on that train are also very low and the most likely would be that both the Video Sherry and the Train Sherry are fakes.

But if that video was the real Sherry, then again we got the question of the mask. How did it get so far from the train and why does it exist. After that mask is found and makes it way back to bourbon, he will also question why the Mask exist, why it is such a good likeness. Then He ask Vermouth that question and must come to the conclusion that KID made that mask and was wearing it.

Remember the Holmes quot about what ever remains must be the truth.

NO, that simply can not happen.

here is why
1) Bourbon saw sherry on the train and led her to the luggage cart.
2)Bourbon talked with sherry and realised that only sherry would know it. it confirmed the fact that the "KID in disguise" is actually sherry.

3) Bourbon does not know about yukiko , how could vermouth tell him about her? that would be saying sherry is haibara and conan is shinichi. the fact that yukiko was there is only known to vermouth
it also tells us that vermouth has not revealed all the secrets and if need arise (that is if sherry mask was found) she could easily spun a tale and end the case.(or kill bourbon)

[Fennec]

Oh please, please, please, PLEASE stop with that conversation. I'm sick of it. D:

Anyways, Kid is more familiar with Sonoko than just as a "fangirl": they actually talked online at one point. Remember the Magic Lover's Murder Case (Volume 20)? He and Sonoko got to be friends, though she tried to pretend to be an adult man (and apparently failed). After meeting her at the mansion, he knows a bit more about her than the others.

As for not being familiarized with Sera, you can counter that argument with his initial appearance. He impersonated Ran with little to no prior knowledge of her personality. Obviously Conan saw through him because they're childhood friends/lovers-to-be—and Conan's a freaking genius who can solve any case—but still, he kept up the guise pretty well with such little background knowledge. Of course, he may have stalked her for a day or two beforehand, but still, you get the point.

[sstimson]

NO, that simply can not happen.

here is why
1) Bourbon saw sherry on the train and led her to the luggage cart.
2)Bourbon talked with sherry and realised that only sherry would know it. it confirmed the fact that the "KID in disguise" is actually sherry.

3) Bourbon does not know about yukiko , how could vermouth tell him about her? that would be saying sherry is haibara and conan is shinichi. the fact that yukiko was there is only known to vermouth
it also tells us that vermouth has not revealed all the secrets and if need arise (that is if sherry mask was found) she could easily spun a tale and end the case.(or kill bourbon)

1) No comment yet

2) bourbon might have noticed a delay in her answers. That could be a tip off to not everything being right. The sense of something being wrong.

3) And why not? Are you saying there is no chance that bourbon never saw any of the movies that Yukiko made? She is famous and I find that very unlikely. And since she is famous, she has likely been in other shows or award shows and he might have seen or read about her there. Why do all assume that only vermouth can tell bourbon anything. bourbon is a detective, he should be able to figure thing out for himself without any input from vermouth. And Yukiko was not hiding on this case. She did wear a hoodie, but after leaving the train she was not hiding herself in anyway. Again he has no reason to not knowing that Yukiko was on that train as Yukiko was in no way hiding the fact she was there. Also remember bourbon saw at least part of a passenger list. As Yukiko was not hiding again he might have seen her name there. Vermouth need to tell bourbon nothing.

As this seems like a good time to make this point. Before in the haunted ship case, it looked like Sherry was safe, after all vermouth promised to stop going after her. In this last case we find out that is not true, as that is so there is no reason not to think that Gosho will not do the same thing again after all one of the most suspenseful times is when someone think they are safe, that is the most likely time for the bad guys to strike! This time there is no question about how important the mask is. It unravels the thread of Sherry being killed, or a trap being setup up. Unlike both the pm and the tape, this time there is no question about how important the mask is. And it still remains dangerous to believe it never being found. When it is found, this black swan will become very interesting and I look forward to that day.

Let me end this an example of something very important being lost and some hoped it to stay that way. Yet it was found and great events happened after this which brought the reader to almost a disaster. I talking about the ONE RING and remember the power to be at that time decided again trying to hide it because they knew with time it would reappear. Things the Sherry's Mask and the ONE RING have a bad habit of turning up at the wrong time. You can hope it stays hidden, but do not be surprised when it makes it reappearance and hope the Good guys get a hold of it first.

[milk_hater]

The most suspicious I think is Kogoro. He just feels... off.

and for Sonoko:
[just in case]

Spoiler:

When she asked Ran if she hadn't noticed her leaving to go to the restroom, what probably happened was either A) Kid took her place while she was gone (which I don't see the reason why he'd do that) or B) Ran was so busy looking at the exhibits that she really didn't notice Sonoko leaving.
And it seems that Sonoko is seen in all but one panel throughout the tour.

I think the Sonoko could have been looking at the sheet thing or at Ran.
She must have wondered why Ran was looking at her phone for a long time.

and I think it's pretty plausible for Sera to get knocked out by Kid via sleeping gas. He did it to Ran and she's a karate expert (then again she was wearing a dress at that time)
but I think it's unlikely since Nakamori did pinch her face....then again.... she said she was going to the restroom right afterwards... possibly to fix a disguise...?

Who knows. It's too early to say at this time.

[mihai]

the only sure thing is that Kid used the bathroom, which was crowded. Probably he was either still inside, preparing or the the bathroom was locked by him. The Cola trick is foreshadowing, indicating Kid created a fake wall near the back of the aquarium so he'll steal the turtle later.
I'm waiting for Conan's funny face when he hears or finds out Kid asked for no explosions this time

[Kor]

Let me end this an example of something very important being lost and some hoped it to stay that way. Yet it was found and great events happened after this which brought the reader to almost a disaster. I talking about the ONE RING and remember the power to be at that time decided again trying to hide it because they knew with time it would reappear. Things the Sherry's Mask and the ONE RING have a bad habit of turning up at the wrong time. You can hope it stays hidden, but do not be surprised when it makes it reappearance and hope the Good guys get a hold of it first.

One Mask to rule them all, One Mask to find them,
One Mask to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Prefecture of Tottori where the Shadows lie.

........but you are aware that you are trying to take an example from an epic fantasy, right? A genre that has nothing to do with Detective Conan. The Ring had dark powers and a will of its own. The mask doesn't.

[Conan-chandesune]

Truthfully, though, Sonoko has been in enough Kid cases [...] and she's the only member of the "regular cast of Kid cases" that Kid didn't disguise as yet.

This is another reason I suspect her. It's very likely that Kid has taken notice of her because she's almost always there watching his heists, and he might already know how she behaves.

I might be stretching it by saying Sera is a hard target because of her Jeet-Kun-Do, sure enough, but I stand by my point of "Kid isn't familiarized enough with her", this would be merely the 2nd time she's involved in a case that concerns him and they haven't interacted much. I doubt he could act like her convincingly at this point. It would kinda be begging Conan to stop him before the heist.

And I doubt he'd let that happen again. I mean, for all Kid knows, Conan might involve him in cases with guns, explosions, and 'those bad guys of his' again as a form of 'debt payment'.

Actually you cant just rule Sera out because she's newer. Many a time Kid has disguised as people he didnt know well.

Though it Probably IS Sonoko.

[ConanOtaku]

I've been lurking on this site so long, I might as well start contributing.

I agree that Kid's Sonoko. The main reason (that I see) that he can't be Sera is that she went to the bathroom 30 minutes prior to the heist, after Nakamori told everyone to leave. Kid would have to be crazy to wait that long to to disguise himself, mainly because there's no guarantee anyone would wander into the bathroom so soon before the heist...especially since it's not even the most convenient one, since it's furthest away. (Why would the close bathroom be crowded anyway? Everyone not related to the heist was told to leave.) That leaves Sonoko or Kogoro. Kogoro's random appearance is fishy (as is his excuse: he was worried about Ran? Really? When's the last time something bad happened at a Suzuki vs. Kid heist? She encounters more danger when she goes to the beach with Sonoko), but so much so that it's likely a red herring. Besides, the only person I can think of who Kid disguised as more than once is Hakuba--and one of those times was a movie, so not canon, and the other was in MK canon.

But besides that, I'm most interested to know what was on Ran's phone. As El Huesudo II suggested, it could be the real Sonoko asking for help, but then why wouldn't Ran say or do anything? If she didn't want to confront Kid, she could have at least shown the message to the resident "Kid Killer," or even her father. Also, when she got the message, she was next to Sera, who was next to Sonoko. But to muse over the message, she walked away from Sera to go to Sonoko's other side. Maybe I'm looking to far into it, but it could have been a message concerning Sera...I don't see any other reason for her to go so far out of the way. But if that's the case, I have no idea what it could possibly be about, or who sent it.

[Borealis]

@El Huesudo II:
About KID disguising himself as a person once: He has been impersonation Aoko so often that some bad guys actually thought that she was KID.

[El Huesudo II]

Dammit Kid, be more consistent with your disguise habits!

But yeah, I insist it's Sonoko. Not really acting like Sonoko usually does.

Also: Ten bucks says the trick required Ran to be caught in the carpet as well.