Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 825-827 "Tennis Mee

[rrizqiw]

True but your trick also changes the time of death. If the room is too hot or too cold the time of death changes. Heat speeds up the time and cold slows it down. The AC might effect the time of death and that could change everything.

but i doubt it changed to same time as the vase drop in his head. probably she want to do this trick and pretend he been attacked by robber. but then conan and co come and ruin her plan

[kuro_shiro]

True but your trick also changes the time of death. If the room is too hot or too cold the time of death changes. Heat speeds up the time and cold slows it down. The AC might effect the time of death and that could change everything.

what does it matter? it was clearly stated in file that victim died about 2 hr before the sound  .
all changes in time of death points to murder. it was  mistake on culprit's part.

predict blond Hair girl is the murderer.

smash head with frozen bottle

make him sit using racket.

put ice in vase

lock the key.

timer the AC

wait till the vase hit victim head

thought this trick is kinda stupid since the murderer forget that police can investigated time of death which make locked room mystery is just illusion  

i m also thinking long those lines
however your theory needs few corrections first the vase was the murder weapon as conan said "blood on vase and body was dried" .

frozen bottle can't be murder weapon because then it will have traces of blood.

i disagree with the identity of culprit because there is not enough clues which point towards her.


PS: that girl is light brown haired ,japs are not blondes

[Tenryu]

I guess the ice is used to make the locked room. the loud noise that wake conan and makes people gather is the ice melt and the dead body fall down and block the door.
anyway, about the time line, is it like this?
- Kotone come to the room
- preparing lunch. Conan come to the room at this point
- lunch
- noboru come to the room (?)
- Ran come to the room with lunch for conan (?)
- clearing up after lunch + put rubish out
- machi come to the room (ac still on)

assuming the victim already dead when Ran came to the room, only noboru can kill the victim.
still.. the time is kinda confusing. there's a huge chance I get the timeline wrong

[sstimson]

True but your trick also changes the time of death. If the room is too hot or too cold the time of death changes. Heat speeds up the time and cold slows it down. The AC might effect the time of death and that could change everything.

what does it matter? it was clearly stated in file that victim died about 2 hr before the sound  .
all changes in time of death points to murder. it was  mistake on culprit's part.

what does it matter you ask? Well I copied part of an internet article for you to read

Part one - From estimating-the-time-of-death

Categorising Time of Death
Time of death is categorised in three ways:

   Physiological time of death: The point at which the deceased's body - including vital organs - ceased to function.
   Estimated time of death: A best guess based on available information.
   Legal time of death: The time at which the body was discovered or physically pronounced dead by another individual. This is the time that is shown - by law - on a death certificate.

That two hours is likely number two (Estimated time of death: A best guess based on available information.)

That could change

Part two from article above

One method of estimating the time of death is to measure body temperature. The normal equation for this is:

   37.5oC - 1.5 oC

This formula equates to the body temperature (37.5oC), which loses 1.5 oC per hour until the temperature of the body is that of the environment around it; known as the ambient temperature. This ambient temperature - depending on how low it is - may take minutes or hours to be reached and this is a good indicator as to how long a body has been in situ. Additionally it is worth noting that a body's temperature will drop much more slowly if the body has been exposed to extreme cold; such as being left outdoors, submerged in water or icy conditions.

Note what is in bold. You are talking about Ice and that could change TOD. HE was killed between the time he went to his room to the time of discovery. I think it very likely he was dead soon after Conan entered the room and before the the girls came up. The AC at that time was on.

Remember what the article said body need to fall to room temperature. There is a big difference between the room being at 60 or 70 Degrees F and being 80 or 90 F. The AC does three things. Slows the TOD by making the body fall that much father to reach room temperature, slows down any melting of ice in the room and make it easier to fake the time by slowing also the ice cream cake melting. The Ac was turned off somehow and then again things changed. The body temperature does not have as fall to fall to reach room temperature, the Ice Cream cake and the Ice melt faster as it is now hotter. The high temperature would also speed up the drying of blood.

Also the murder vs accident thing. If the killer way trying to make it look like an accident, then why lock the door? Also why not just place the objects exactly where they need to be for an accident to have happened. The killer was not trying to cover up a murder, but might have an alibi setup for a certain time and need the TOD to match that.

[mihai]

And now for 826: I find it funny that the racket has 4 bump marks on the strings, lined up like the edges of a square. I wonder what caused them to get bent in that shape. And, well, the trick employs ice of course.

Everyone's suspicious... Kotone's the one who handles ice the most, not to mention that she's the one who can prepare a trick better since it's her house. One could use ice to move a body, what with the reduced friction and everything. You could also set up ice so that once melted, the vase would fall.

Machi's the one who worked harder on establishing an alibi, and also mentioned the thing with the AC - that it was on. Almost as if she was trying to convince everyone that the AC was indeed on when it clearly wasn't... However, that testimony would only work if she knew someone else would say the same thing; I doubt she could predict Ran and Sonoko falling for the AC trick too.

Noboru suggested the thing about checking things out from the window, something that Amuro suggested was a big part of the trick; however, he was the one who sent Conan to the room; and that would be pretty much sabotaging himself...

...unless he counted on Conan to freak out like any other kid would at the sight of a body and for the crime scene to get messed with? Taking the water inside the vase in mind, the setup might work so that peeking through the window would have had the effect Amuro stated (the time it takes to open the locked room would allow for an explanation on the dried blood), but opening the door forcefully (which is a staple in DC) would spill the water inside the vase, re-humidifying the blood. ...But this method is kinda shaky and depends too much on chance... I dunno.

good analysis, I think that the culprit is Machi, with her frozen drinks, but could also be Kotone as well since she knew Machi was freezing the drinks and could blame her once the investigators realized the trick relies a lot on ice

[rrizqiw]

i m also thinking long those lines
however your theory needs few corrections first the vase was the murder weapon as conan said "blood on vase and body was dried" .

frozen bottle can't be murder weapon because then it will have traces of blood.

i disagree with the identity of culprit because there is not enough clues which point towards her.


PS: that girl is light brown haired ,japs are not blondes

ok fine. change frozen bottle to vase as murder weapon.

anyway lets sort the timeline first

- conan go to ishigiru room
- kotone and talk to ishigiru (this is the only time where the culprit meet victim while still alive before the locked door. hence why i suspect her)
- kotone make noodle with R&S
- Kotone and machi once again check the room
- R&S take noodle to room fro conan
- kotone, R&S take bath. after that machi which my possibly take care the dish
- at that point Noboru check the room. then cleaning up the rubish
- when 3 girl out. Kotone ask R&S to pt on frezer
- after machi out. she fix R&S racket

after that vase drop

[kuro_shiro]

True but your trick also changes the time of death. If the room is too hot or too cold the time of death changes. Heat speeds up the time and cold slows it down. The AC might effect the time of death and that could change everything.

what does it matter? it was clearly stated in file that victim died about 2 hr before the sound  .
all changes in time of death points to murder. it was  mistake on culprit's part.

what does it matter you ask? Well I copied part of an internet article for you to read

Part one - From estimating-the-time-of-death

Categorising Time of Death
Time of death is categorised in three ways:

   Physiological time of death: The point at which the deceased's body - including vital organs - ceased to function.
   Estimated time of death: A best guess based on available information.
   Legal time of death: The time at which the body was discovered or physically pronounced dead by another individual. This is the time that is shown - by law - on a death certificate.

That two hours is likely number two (Estimated time of death: A best guess based on available information.)

That could change

Part two from article above

One method of estimating the time of death is to measure body temperature. The normal equation for this is:

   37.5oC - 1.5 oC

This formula equates to the body temperature (37.5oC), which loses 1.5 oC per hour until the temperature of the body is that of the environment around it; known as the ambient temperature. This ambient temperature - depending on how low it is - may take minutes or hours to be reached and this is a good indicator as to how long a body has been in situ. Additionally it is worth noting that a body's temperature will drop much more slowly if the body has been exposed to extreme cold; such as being left outdoors, submerged in water or icy conditions.

Note what is in bold. You are talking about Ice and that could change TOD. HE was killed between the time he went to his room to the time of discovery. I think it very likely he was dead soon after Conan entered the room and before the the girls came up. The AC at that time was on.

Remember what the article said body need to fall to room temperature. There is a big difference between the room being at 60 or 70 Degrees F and being 80 or 90 F. The AC does three things. Slows the TOD by making the body fall that much father to reach room temperature, slows down any melting of ice in the room and make it easier to fake the time by slowing also the ice cream cake melting. The Ac was turned off somehow and then again things changed. The body temperature does not have as fall to fall to reach room temperature, the Ice Cream cake and the Ice melt faster as it is now hotter. The high temperature would also speed up the drying of blood.

it still does not change facts.

time of death can not help in narrowing down suspects , it can not help us in establishing timeline.

TOD only tells us that it is a murder case. in no other way it has been found useful. and we are not the police in the file who have access to more info.

so all in all , the effects of heat and cold on TOD is immaterial to us ,fellow dc fans  trying to solve the case before raws gets out

Also the murder vs accident thing. If the killer way trying to make it look like an accident, then why lock the door? Also why not just place the objects exactly where they need to be for an accident to have happened.

cuz inspector yamamura was not in-charge.!!
other police officers tend to check all alternatives like murder especially when suspects have a motive  besides a lock room will enforce the possibility of accident. and unless it gets solved police can not arrest culprit for murder

and things are not in places they need to be because they were required for trick

The killer was not trying to cover up a murder, but might have an alibi setup for a certain time and need the TOD to match that.

if killer's goal was to get away with that
then why killer took the pains to hide the spare key and created locked room case.

[mihai]

after reading so many DC cases, when there is a locked room, the possibility of a murder is high. But since Conan usually finds clues to how the murder happened, it becomes a fake locked room murder for him

about the trick relying on ice and body warmth, it's clearly because of Uriu jumping in the snow and freezing to death, so one of the girls is the culprit and killed Ishiguri out of revenge(with Uriu being her bf). What i want to see if the trick is related to Ishiguri's bad sense of humor(him saying you wouldn't die even if you jump from 2nd floor in that snow) and the culprit lured him somehow

[Conan 48:69]

How do Conan solve a case this time, Bourbon is right in front of him, Sango is not getting used of Kogorou solving without falling asleep, like he showed Kogorou an example in File 711 page 8, but Conan quickly covered it up. Amuro may pretend he didn't know and force Conan to solve.

Amuro already said he would be back to Poirot which located just downstair of detective agency, even with that, Conan had no intention to call FBI for help? Conan can't protect Ran everytime, especially during school.

[Fennec]

I think the ice cream cake definitely plays a factor somehow. Not sure how, but it does; it's a bit too blatant to mention without having some part in the crime.

[sstimson]

How do Conan solve a case this time, Bourbon is right in front of him, Sango is not getting used of Kogorou solving without falling asleep, like he showed Kogorou an example in File 711 page 8, but Conan quickly covered it up. Amuro may pretend he didn't know and force Conan to solve.

Amuro already said he would be back to Poirot which located just downstair of detective agency, even with that, Conan had no intention to call FBI for help? Conan can't protect Ran everytime, especially during school.

You might be forgetting a case that was just animated. Imposter Korogou take two. Think about that one for a second and you  will see that Conan way over tipped his hand. First Satou and Takagi are both there. They both know that the Korogou is a fake and they watch him appear to solve the case. But they know he is not doing as he is a fake. So that leaves two people right, Ran and Conan. As Ran requested not the give away the fact that this Korogou is a fake. They again know it can not be him. If they are watching closely, they will notice that this fake Korogou is being used as a puppet and Something is being used to sound like him. Remember only two either Conan or Ran are working the puppet. Add the fact a few times Conan kinda spoon feed them the answers and you might see why I think if they did not know before how the trick worked, they do now. But they go along with it because the crimes get solved. I will say this again in the canon Satou and Takagi now know without question how the sleeping Korogou trick works. They know Conan has a way to sound like others. I did not say they yet know about the watch, but they sure know who is feeding the answers. And Ran must know as well. That might kill a Suspicion case for Ran and show she might already know that Conan is Shinichi and is waiting for either him to tell her or more evidence so that the next time she say you are him and this is why, his only course will be to say you are right.

[s.pel]

Amuro already said he would be back to Poirot which located just downstair of detective agency, even with that, Conan had no intention to call FBI for help? Conan can't protect Ran everytime, especially during school.

Spoiler:

it's funny 'cause Bourbon is there also to protect her and conan, but conan doesn't know that xD

[El Huesudo II]

Amuro already said he would be back to Poirot which located just downstair of detective agency, even with that, Conan had no intention to call FBI for help? Conan can't protect Ran everytime, especially during school.

If Vermouth is aiding Bourbon still, then Bourbon is kind of supposed to PROTECT the Mouri family and Conan, not to mention to keep Conan's secrets a secret. (Hell, that might even be the nature of Bourbon's promise to Vermouth.)

It would be interesting if Bourbon is also someone who wants the BO to fall. It would also make his dynamic with Akai much more interesting - two BO agents with their loyalties elsewhere, competing against each other to bring the organization down, one from the outside, another from the inside; two persons who think the other guy is just in the way of their own plan, perhaps?

Though that doesn't fit with the story of Gundam. It fits with the story of Code Geass... Wrong mecha show!



Of course, regardless of Amuro's true loyalties (for all we know he's a devout BO agent), Conan will of course be in paranoid mode again now. He said he'd investigate Amuro on the side, but that could be just a joke - does he feel capable of keeping a BO agent this close to him and watch his movements? Judging by his attitude in this case, he doesn't.

[ShinRan4ver]

How do Conan solve a case this time, Bourbon is right in front of him, Sango is not getting used of Kogorou solving without falling asleep, like he showed Kogorou an example in File 711 page 8, but Conan quickly covered it up. Amuro may pretend he didn't know and force Conan to solve.

Amuro already said he would be back to Poirot which located just downstair of detective agency, even with that, Conan had no intention to call FBI for help? Conan can't protect Ran everytime, especially during school.

You might be forgetting a case that was just animated. Imposter Korogou take two. Think about that one for a second and you  will see that Conan way over tipped his hand. First Satou and Takagi are both there. They both know that the Korogou is a fake and they watch him appear to solve the case. But they know he is not doing as he is a fake. So that leaves two people right, Ran and Conan. As Ran requested not the give away the fact that this Korogou is a fake. They again know it can not be him. If they are watching closely, they will notice that this fake Korogou is being used as a puppet and Something is being used to sound like him. Remember only two either Conan or Ran are working the puppet. Add the fact a few times Conan kinda spoon feed them the answers and you might see why I think if they did not know before how the trick worked, they do now. But they go along with it because the crimes get solved. I will say this again in the canon Satou and Takagi now know without question how the sleeping Korogou trick works. They know Conan has a way to sound like others. I did not say they yet know about the watch, but they sure know who is feeding the answers. And Ran must know as well. That might kill a Suspicion case for Ran and show she might already know that Conan is Shinichi and is waiting for either him to tell her or more evidence so that the next time she say you are him and this is why, his only course will be to say you are right.

I wouldn't have listed Imposter Kogoro II as the prime example, there is a more recent Ran Suspicious? file called "Conan-kun, right?(814)" in the Cold Case series where Ran totally could have pressed Conan on the issue and got him into big trouble. We definately will have another Ran Suspicion case coming up, I expect it to be the 1st or 2nd case with Sera post Mystery Train(who got her mind really messed up by Vermouth). Now whether this will be the final suspicion act depends on whether Gosho want it to go on.

[El Huesudo II]

To be quite honest, I'd prefer it if Kogoro finds Conan's secret out before Ran does.

Not only this would be hilarious in itself, but it would lend itself to many more hilarious moments.

Just imagine it: Kogoro suddenly becoming overzealous about being a great detective in his own terms (and messing up more because of this) because he doesn't want to lose to a kid (even 17-year-old-form Shinichi is a kid in his eyes anyway!). Kogoro more actively trying to kick out Conan from the investigation sites just so he doesn't steal the spotlight. Kogoro later trying to secretly conference with Conan when he realizes he can't make heads or tails of a case.

Worse: Kogoro freaking out along Conan when Heiji calls him Kudo. Kogoro changing his boasts for nervous laughter when someone reminds him of his fame. Kogoro freaking out at the threat of any moment that could be interpreted as Ran and Shinichi (as Conan) being intimate together, even if by accident.

And even better: Kogoro being actively involved in BO cases and being badass while doing so.

This would please me a helluva lot.