Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 825-827 "Tennis Mee

[AICHAN]

Next chapter:

Spoiler:

Nothing exciting, only the page where Amuro nods to Conan. The rest, the usual. Investigating and Conan reaches a conclusion, meaning this will probably be a 3-parter.

where did you get that from?

From the spoiler Cbox

[Steffi]

Spoiler:

And we really have a Yokomizo case. My japanese is non existing. I need to wait for the translation to make any theories.      

[Wakarimashita]

Upcoming weeks :

Shônen Sunday #35 (File 827) : 1st of August (Spoiler and raw on the 27th of july).
Shônen Sunday #36/37 (File 828) : 8th of August (Spoilers and raw on the 3rd).
Shônen Sunday #38 (File 829) : 22nd of August (Spoilers and raw on the 17th).

[Borealis]

Spoiler:

Hm, Conan seems to be worried on the last page.
Most of the time he has that smug smirk when he just found the solution to a case

[ShinRan4ver]

Spoiler:

LMAO, BO Tennis  :D

Spoiler:

and as predicted Habiara's raging big time, at least I didn't see her B-slap Conan yet. Seem like Amuro got by the police questioning at the station no problem->GG sstimson.  I wonder why Gosho had Conan get hit by a racket though.

Ever heard of "house arrest"?

Spoiler:

Looking at Conan expression speaks volumes. It is clear, he did not think he would see bourbon so soon. I am sure by now the FBI and Jodie know who Bourbon is. It is about to become a game if when will Conan action show he know who Bourbon is? He is not a great actor and Bourbon seeing Conan Expression might already know that Conan know something about him. Think why does he look at me with shock and fear? Also as far as Bourbon knowing about KID, well we know Vermouth put two and two together. I think with time Bourbon if he has not already does so, will put the pieces together. Who will be the better game player. Time will tell. I expect that soon Bourbon will disappear. Now if that because of him thinking time to go underground or because the FBI picks him up. Time will tell.
By the way, while there currently is no way to know, Bourbon while being questioned might have been given a summons to appear to answer more questions about the train bombing. Him walking free, does not end the matter.

So house arrest = leisurely drive all the way to Izu and teach Tennis in front of everyone?? Don't make me laugh.

Bourbon's temporary absence shows that he was away investigating the Akai file, now that he is done he come back to investigate Conan and his connection to Akai some more. He might still be summoned again for the train case, but with no evidence(we went through this in your previous daydream rampage) the Police can't do anything about it, FBI could try to corner him and capture him but as explained before if Bourbon disappears without a reason Kogorou would be the #1 BO suspect, not something FBI & Conan want(after their Kir fiasco). Bourbon showed up by his free will and he will leave by his free will.

[Conan 48:69]

Spoiler:

Last time we see Sango Yokomizo on manga is File 709-711. 3-parts series Part 2 is always for finding hints and interrogation.

Upcoming weeks :

Shônen Sunday #35 (File 827) : 1st of August (Spoiler and raw on the 27th of july).
Shônen Sunday #36/37 (File 828) : 8th of August (Spoilers and raw on the 3rd).
Shônen Sunday #38 (File 829) : 22nd of August (Spoilers and raw on the 17th).

Spoiler:

You get the Shonen Sunday issues listing from Tuntun right?

Tuntun had once made it wrong for double issue like below:

-22/11 : Sunday 52 : Chapitre 798
-30/11 : Sunday 53 : Pause de l'auteur
-07/12 : Sunday 01 : Chapitre 799
-14/12 : Sunday 02-03 : Chapitre 800
-21/12 : Pas de Sunday
-28/12 : Sunday 04-05 : Chapitre 801
-04/01 : Pas de Sunday
-11/01 : Sunday 06 : Chapitre 802

But it turned out as Sunday 02 (File 800), Sunday 03-04 (File 801), Sunday 05-06 (File 802). Double issue may subject to change, like Year 2005 is #37-38, Year 2009 had no #36-37 but #42-43 instead, but #36-37 is most frequent double issue.

[Wakarimashita]

You get the Shonen Sunday issues listing from Tuntun right?

No. I invent them.

[secretbeauty101]

Spoiler:

LMAO, BO Tennis 

Spoiler:

and as predicted Habiara's raging big time, at least I didn't see her B-slap Conan yet. Seem like Amuro got by the police questioning at the station no problem->GG sstimson.  I wonder why Gosho had Conan get hit by a racket though.

Ever heard of "house arrest"?

Spoiler:

Looking at Conan expression speaks volumes. It is clear, he did not think he would see bourbon so soon. I am sure by now the FBI and Jodie know who Bourbon is. It is about to become a game if when will Conan action show he know who Bourbon is? He is not a great actor and Bourbon seeing Conan Expression might already know that Conan know something about him. Think why does he look at me with shock and fear? Also as far as Bourbon knowing about KID, well we know Vermouth put two and two together. I think with time Bourbon if he has not already does so, will put the pieces together. Who will be the better game player. Time will tell. I expect that soon Bourbon will disappear. Now if that because of him thinking time to go underground or because the FBI picks him up. Time will tell.
By the way, while there currently is no way to know, Bourbon while being questioned might have been given a summons to appear to answer more questions about the train bombing. Him walking free, does not end the matter.

So house arrest = leisurely drive all the way to Izu and teach Tennis in front of everyone?? Don't make me laugh.

Bourbon's temporary absence shows that he was away investigating the Akai file, now that he is done he come back to investigate Conan and his connection to Akai some more. He might still be summoned again for the train case, but with no evidence(we went through this in your previous daydream rampage) the Police can't do anything about it, FBI could try to corner him and capture him but as explained before if Bourbon disappears without a reason Kogorou would be the #1 BO suspect, not something FBI & Conan want(after their Kir fiasco). Bourbon showed up by his free will and he will leave by his free will.

^^ I agree with this.

[sushimaster]

Upcoming weeks :

Shônen Sunday #35 (File 827) : 1st of August (Spoiler and raw on the 27th of july).
Shônen Sunday #36/37 (File 828) : 8th of August (Spoilers and raw on the 3rd).
Shônen Sunday #38 (File 829) : 22nd of August (Spoilers and raw on the 17th).

Thanks for the info!
So we always get to read the scanlations before Shonen Sunday is published? Tha'ts cool!
...
I also notice we are going to have a week break in August.

[Wakarimashita]

I also notice we are going to have a week break in August.

It's the case every year because of obon.

[sstimson]

Spoiler:

LMAO, BO Tennis  :D

Spoiler:

and as predicted Habiara's raging big time, at least I didn't see her B-slap Conan yet. Seem like Amuro got by the police questioning at the station no problem->GG sstimson.  I wonder why Gosho had Conan get hit by a racket though.

Ever heard of "house arrest"?

Spoiler:

Looking at Conan expression speaks volumes. It is clear, he did not think he would see bourbon so soon. I am sure by now the FBI and Jodie know who Bourbon is. It is about to become a game if when will Conan action show he know who Bourbon is? He is not a great actor and Bourbon seeing Conan Expression might already know that Conan know something about him. Think why does he look at me with shock and fear? Also as far as Bourbon knowing about KID, well we know Vermouth put two and two together. I think with time Bourbon if he has not already does so, will put the pieces together. Who will be the better game player. Time will tell. I expect that soon Bourbon will disappear. Now if that because of him thinking time to go underground or because the FBI picks him up. Time will tell.
By the way, while there currently is no way to know, Bourbon while being questioned might have been given a summons to appear to answer more questions about the train bombing. Him walking free, does not end the matter.

So house arrest = leisurely drive all the way to Izu and teach Tennis in front of everyone?? Don't make me laugh.

Bourbon's temporary absence shows that he was away investigating the Akai file, now that he is done he come back to investigate Conan and his connection to Akai some more. He might still be summoned again for the train case, but with no evidence(we went through this in your previous daydream rampage) the Police can't do anything about it, FBI could try to corner him and capture him but as explained before if Bourbon disappears without a reason Kogorou would be the #1 BO suspect, not something FBI & Conan want(after their Kir fiasco). Bourbon showed up by his free will and he will leave by his free will.

Sorry to disillusion you, but that is simply not true. Bourbon by moving is now a legal target. There might have been those who saw something, or knew something that is in the back of their mind, that might come forward. There is the question of does Bourbon cover identity hold water or have legs. I believe it is a crime to impersonate an officer. It is a crime to have false identity. The Bo ,I hope, knows how dangerous Bourbon's stunt was. I highly doubt that if he were to be arrested, the Bo would really care to mount a rescue, much more likely they will kill him. I got the impression that Gin and company would have blown up the entire train with both Vermouth and Bourbon on it. And unless Gin either removed those bombs or never planted them, they will be found. After all it currently looks like an attempted bombing of the train and the investigation is sure to look for other possible bombs set in its path. Bourbon is likely at the moment not very well liked by the BO. Korogou can no longer be used as a target if Bourbon gets arrested. The Bo knows they walked into a trap and likely feel lucky the trap failed. Still Conan now know who Bourbon is and it will not be long before the FBI does as well. Bourbon by appearing again is playing a very dangerous game in which the BO might decide Bourbon is better dead.

[El Huesudo II]

sstimson, let's humor you for a second.

Gin wanted to plant bombs in the train. It was stated that Vermouth took those, along with a few others, and used them to try to sabotage Bourbon's plan and take Shiho out, and those bombs exploded. There's no trace of them anymore. And besides, even if they found bombs somewhere else in the train, they'd take that as an attempt at taking Jirokichi's life (remember Gin mentioned this), so the investigation would move in a totally different direction (and to a dead end).

There might be witnesses to the whole stunt in the train? Maybe. Most likely there aren't, as it was shown that everyone, the train staff included, was forced out of the back of the train, which was where everything transpired. Both Bourbon and Conan motioned everyone away, because both parts needed no witnesses around for their stunt to work.

If Bourbon, by any chance, got arrested for anything related to the BO, the BO would immediately erase him and everyone involved. I don't know where you come from by saying Kogoro wouldn't be a target anymore if Bourbon got in trouble with the authority; quite the contrary - Kogoro would be instantly eliminated, and most likely Ran and Conan would, too, because of their acquaintance with Amuro; as all traces back to Amuro would have to disappear.

Also: There's no reason why Amuro would be suspected of anything - he's with Kogoro, a respected detective; he helped solve the case on the train; and he saw smoke, panicked, and motioned everyone to evacuate before there being an explosion in the train (remember, no one saw anything about the explosion, the reason is still unknown to third parties). No one should know he's Bourbon, and no one who knows would talk. Amuro's cover is intact.

Conan will most likely tell the FBI about Bourbon's identity - hell, he might have already done so. However, the FBI cell pursuing the BO has no jurisdiction in Japan and is unable to make a legal arrest. This is the part that you apparently can't understand yet: What the FBI and Conan are doing is called a BLACK OPERATION. It's not legal. It's clandestine. It's secret. They can't get help from the authorities. AT ALL.

sstimson, is it that you really, really, REEEEEALLY want the action to move that fast? With the current state of events in the series, it simply can't. Be patient.

[sstimson]

sstimson, let's humor you for a second.

Gin wanted to plant bombs in the train. It was stated that Vermouth took those, along with a few others, and used them to try to sabotage Bourbon's plan and take Shiho out, and those bombs exploded. There's no trace of them anymore. And besides, even if they found bombs somewhere else in the train, they'd take that as an attempt at taking Jirokichi's life (remember Gin mentioned this), so the investigation would move in a totally different direction (and to a dead end).

Here where you start incorrect. 78-7 Page 6. Note Gin words "... There are going to be blasted to pieces ...". The train inself could not do that. But if the Bo placed plastic c4 bombs not on the train but around the station, then they could get blasted to bits. Same page. The bomb that removed the link between cars, and destroyed the storage car were to use Vodka words "Vermouth was asking if she could have some, if there was any spare. Those explosives were a SMALL part of the Explosives the BO planed to use. It is the large cache of explosive I am talking about. Unless Gin and Vodka picked them up, then after the car blew up, there would still be there. The fact that a car blow up on a train in which Jirokichi was not aboard changes thing a lot. After all the car blowing up could not be part of an attempt on Jirokichi's life and then believing that the bombs Gin planted are still there paints a very different picture. It now looks like someone would stop at nothing to destroy someone on that train. Remember after the explosion, the train was stopped. It never got to where Gin set the explosives.

There might be witnesses to the whole stunt in the train? Maybe. Most likely there aren't, as it was shown that everyone, the train staff included, was forced out of the back of the train, which was where everything transpired. Both Bourbon and Conan motioned everyone away, because both parts needed no witnesses around for their stunt to work.

And you get this one wrong as well. Sometime the clue is who was not where they should have been. A lot of first class passengers are not going to miss the fact that the one who called fire was not with them after they made their escape. He was the last to arrive and came from the direction of the explosion. Also note that Ran tried to reach several people without success. She is sure to wonder why.

If Bourbon, by any chance, got arrested for anything related to the BO, the BO would immediately erase him and everyone involved. I don't know where you come from by saying Kogoro wouldn't be a target anymore if Bourbon got in trouble with the authority; quite the contrary - Kogoro would be instantly eliminated, and most likely Ran and Conan would, too, because of their acquaintance with Amuro; as all traces back to Amuro would have to disappear.

First unless the BO has a very good reason, that is exactly what they are not going to do. After all if you watch or read any kind of mysteries, you know that if you are not careful, then when you go to remove your witness another one will witness that murder. There must be a point where you see there is no point in risking witness for such a small return. Next Korogou was a BO operation once before and that became a trap. Are you trying to tell me that the BO does not learn from history? AS you made that statement, then explain this. A BO operative in the hospital that Kir was at disappeared from contact from the BO. Notice, in this case the FBI tipped their hand and the Bo knew that something was being hid. As far as Korogou is concerned, I think the Bo no longer cares about him. If they Did, he would have had another attempt on him. But that has not happened. Also Korogou is a detective. He will and does investigate things. He been involved in now three cases and is still walking around. There is nothing to be gained by killing Korogou and a great of risk in doing so. Unless the BO has no choice, they, I think, will not do that again. The risk is just too great. And beside again know Gin words "like I care". Vodka ask how Vermouth and Bourbon were going to escape. Gin response suggest they were not going to. In other words Gin would not mind killing Bourbon, and is likely to find a reason in the near future to do exactly that. Bourbon if he knows about the explosives that Gin set should know it might be time to cut a deal.

Also: There's no reason why Amuro would be suspected of anything - he's with Kogoro, a respected detective; he helped solve the case on the train; and he saw smoke, panicked, and motioned everyone to evacuate before there being an explosion in the train (remember, no one saw anything about the explosion, the reason is still unknown to third parties). No one should know he's Bourbon, and no one who knows would talk. Amuro's cover is intact.

What about the Sherry mask that kid threw away? When that is found, the BO will know they got played. Bourbon is not dumb. I am sure he saw Vermouth expression go from happy to serious in moments. He likely heard the same things that Vermouth heard. He might come to the conclusion, that he was played. If he learns about that mask of Kid's, then he will know for certain. He will know someone was reading answers and was listening in. This will happen. It is just a matter of time. He going to know very soon, that he is not safe, and the wolves are at the door. It might happen even in this case. I can see him meeting Jodie who says that you and I are going to have a interesting talk.

Conan will most likely tell the FBI about Bourbon's identity - hell, he might have already done so. However, the FBI cell pursuing the BO has no jurisdiction in Japan and is unable to make a legal arrest. This is the part that you apparently can't understand yet: What the FBI and Conan are doing is called a BLACK OPERATION. It's not legal. It's clandestine. It's secret. They can't get help from the authorities. AT ALL.

Again you are wrong here. There are events where the FBI or CIA no longer needs the Host country permission to act. The Bo and their agents are without question Terrorist. Guess what because of this fact, they can pursue them. It not a secret. The Bo suspects comitted terrorist acts and there are laws that allow them to act. It is called extraterritorial jurisdiction. Google it and read about it. An example using the british government Extra Territorial Jurisdiction (ETJ) for Terrorist Offences - Part 2 of the Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003
I sure the FBI and CIA can use EXTRA TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION when fighting terrorist and as a train bombing can be considered a terrorist act and if one US citizen was on that train, then it becomes a terrorist act again the USA. So without question, if either the CIA, or FBI needs to act, they will and they, as I hope I just showed, can do it under international law.

sstimson, is it that you really, really, REEEEEALLY want the action to move that fast? With the current state of events in the series, it simply can't. Be patient.

[El Huesudo II]

Oh man.

Here where you start incorrect. 78-7 Page 6. Note Gin words "... There are going to be blasted to pieces ...". The train inself could not do that. But if the Bo placed plastic c4 bombs not on the train but around the station, then they could get blasted to bits. Same page. The bomb that removed the link between cars, and destroyed the storage car were to use Vodka words "Vermouth was asking if she could have some, if there was any spare. Those explosives were a SMALL part of the Explosives the BO planed to use. It is the large cache of explosive I am talking about. Unless Gin and Vodka picked them up, then after the car blew up, there would still be there. The fact that a car blow up on a train in which Jirokichi was not aboard changes thing a lot. After all the car blowing up could not be part of an attempt on Jirokichi's life and then believing that the bombs Gin planted are still there paints a very different picture. It now looks like someone would stop at nothing to destroy someone on that train. Remember after the explosion, the train was stopped. It never got to where Gin set the explosives.

It's funny how when you get something right, you use it to fuel the part of your theory that is wrong.

As I said earlier, any explosives set in the train would be seen as an attempt at Jirokichi's life, well, either him or any other VIP on board or at the station. It's ridiculous that they think otherwise: what other purpose could they think of, especially since there's NO EVIDENCE of another motive?

And you get this one wrong as well. Sometime the clue is who was not where they should have been. A lot of first class passengers are not going to miss the fact that the one who called fire was not with them after they made their escape. He was the last to arrive and came from the direction of the explosion. Also note that Ran tried to reach several people without success. She is sure to wonder why.

Amuro was presented as an aide in solving a crime and also detected the "fire". For all everyone would care, he could have been looking for stragglers in order to evacuate them as well.

In order to mention Amuro's actions as suspicious, others would have to actually suspect him first - and he has never given any reason for being suspected, on the contrary, he's always seemed like the guy who'd go the extra mile to uphold justice. (Well, except to the readers, we did get the clues.)

First unless the BO has a very good reason, that is exactly what they are not going to do. After all if you watch or read any kind of mysteries, you know that if you are not careful, then when you go to remove your witness another one will witness that murder. There must be a point where you see there is no point in risking witness for such a small return. Next Korogou was a BO operation once before and that became a trap. Are you trying to tell me that the BO does not learn from history? AS you made that statement, then explain this. A BO operative in the hospital that Kir was at disappeared from contact from the BO. Notice, in this case the FBI tipped their hand and the Bo knew that something was being hid. As far as Korogou is concerned, I think the Bo no longer cares about him. If they Did, he would have had another attempt on him. But that has not happened. Also Korogou is a detective. He will and does investigate things. He been involved in now three cases and is still walking around. There is nothing to be gained by killing Korogou and a great of risk in doing so. Unless the BO has no choice, they, I think, will not do that again. The risk is just too great. And beside again know Gin words "like I care". Vodka ask how Vermouth and Bourbon were going to escape. Gin response suggest they were not going to. In other words Gin would not mind killing Bourbon, and is likely to find a reason in the near future to do exactly that. Bourbon if he knows about the explosives that Gin set should know it might be time to cut a deal.

The BO is not as careful as you'd think. Hell, they tried to blow up AN ENTIRE HOSPITAL FILLED WITH PEOPLE for crying out loud. And that's not the first time they go to extremes.

Kogoro is considered by the BO to be "someone the FBI used to plant a device on Kir". I don't think he's off the "possible targets" list, especially because he's linked to Akai, and Amuro thinks Akai is still alive. The moment Amuro gets evidence of Akai being still alive, with one phone call he'll get Kogoro in the official targets list again.

And, well, Kogoro is Amuro's acquaintance, and a famous detective to boot. If Amuro ever got caught by the authorities, I wouldn't put it past them to erase Kogoro just so that he doesn't decide to investigate further.

What about the Sherry mask that kid threw away? When that is found, the BO will know they got played. Bourbon is not dumb. I am sure he saw Vermouth expression go from happy to serious in moments. He likely heard the same things that Vermouth heard. He might come to the conclusion, that he was played. If he learns about that mask of Kid's, then he will know for certain. He will know someone was reading answers and was listening in. This will happen. It is just a matter of time. He going to know very soon, that he is not safe, and the wolves are at the door. It might happen even in this case. I can see him meeting Jodie who says that you and I are going to have a interesting talk.

Remember that Vermouth also disposed of a Shiho disguise kit. Also, Kid threw the mask away mid-flight, and it flew off into the mountains. What are the goddamned chances of Bourbon ever finding it? And even if he does - he could simply think it was the one Vermouth disposed of.

He'll never get to think Kaito Kid was involved - Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true, and getting Kaito Kid into the equation, even if it's what happened, makes the explanation too complicated and dependent on chance. Bourbon would also have to know Kaito Kid was in the train, and that he'd be willing to cooperate with whoever set him the trap - and as he doesn't know Conan is watching him, that'd mean Akai. Now, what are the odds that Kaito and Akai knew each other, and that a wanted criminal would cooperate willfully with an FBI agent, even if said agent was outside his jurisdiction? Terribly unlikely.

Again you are wrong here. There are events where the FBI or CIA no longer needs the Host country permission to act. The Bo and their agents are without question Terrorist. Guess what because of this fact, they can pursue them. It not a secret. The Bo suspects comitted terrorist acts and there are laws that allow them to act. It is called extraterritorial jurisdiction. Google it and read about it. An example using the british government Extra Territorial Jurisdiction (ETJ) for Terrorist Offences - Part 2 of the Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003
I sure the FBI and CIA can use EXTRA TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION when fighting terrorist and as a train bombing can be considered a terrorist act and if one US citizen was on that train, then it becomes a terrorist act again the USA. So without question, if either the CIA, or FBI needs to act, they will and they, as I hope I just showed, can do it under international law.

It's still a black op.

For ETJ to kick in they'd have to have evidence of the existence of the BO, who I remind you, leaves no evidence behind. If no one in Japan's law enforcement even KNOWS about the existence of the BO, who will the FBI talk to? Sure, they can go in guns blazing and detain whoever they want, but then they'd have to back up their claims with something.

And: Using the ETJ card this early in the case is bad strategy. They go in, they capture people, but then what? Whoever they catch will refuse to talk, and the capture would be revealing their hand to the BO too soon. Yes, you catch 2 guys. 2 guys out of many others who'd simply go off radar and change HQ.

[Kor]

Again you are wrong here. There are events where the FBI or CIA no longer needs the Host country permission to act. The Bo and their agents are without question Terrorist. Guess what because of this fact, they can pursue them. It not a secret. The Bo suspects comitted terrorist acts and there are laws that allow them to act. It is called extraterritorial jurisdiction. Google it and read about it. An example using the british government Extra Territorial Jurisdiction (ETJ) for Terrorist Offences - Part 2 of the Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003
I sure the FBI and CIA can use EXTRA TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION when fighting terrorist and as a train bombing can be considered a terrorist act and if one US citizen was on that train, then it becomes a terrorist act again the USA. So without question, if either the CIA, or FBI needs to act, they will and they, as I hope I just showed, can do it under international law.

These real life examples are meaningless. Unless we hear from Jodie that all of a sudden they can work in Japan freely, we need to continue with the mindset that it's illegal for them.