(SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the train
-
sstimson
- Everyone a Critic
Posts: 2588- Contact:
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
You did not do the research did you?
Ever hear of Smoke Grenade?
from the above page
Smoke grenades are canister-type grenades used as ground-to-ground or ground-to-air signaling devices, target or landing zone marking devices, or as screening devices for unit movements. Smoke grenades are normally considered non-lethal, although incorrect use may cause death. The body consists of a sheet steel cylinder with a four emission holes on top and one on the bottom to allow smoke release when the grenade is ignited. The filler consists of 250 to 350 grams of colored (red, green, orange, gray, yellow, blue, white, black, or violet) smoke composition (mostly potassium chlorate, lactose, and a dye). The reaction is exothermic and grenade casings will often remain scalding hot for some time even after the grenade is no longer emitting smoke.
Another type of smoke grenade is the bursting variation. These are filled with white phosphorus (WP), which is spread by explosive action. White phosphorus catches fire in the presence of air, and burns with a brilliant yellow flame, while producing copious amounts of white smoke (phosphorus pentoxide). These double as incendiary grenades, and a variant of these are also launched from infantry-portable or armored fighting vehicle-mounted grenade launchers. Users must also be wary of wind direction when using smoke grenades.
Smoke grenades should not be confused with smoke bombs, which are typically started with an external fuse rather than a pin. Smoke grenades often cost around $40 USD compared to smoke bombs, which can often cost just a few cents. Smoke grenades generally emit a far larger amount of smoke than smoke bombs that are sold as fireworks.
But you likely need more evidence to the fact that, that is what was and you shall have it.
Page 8
There are sound effects. Note just before KID closes the door how much smoke is in the car.
Next look at the amount of smoke when 'Akai" makes an appearence
I would guess he must have set off smoke bomb / grenade since there a lot of smoke and the BO smoke device is in the front of the train meaning the amount of smoke is too much for it to be coming from there
Page 9
Here we see the smoke grenade and 'Akai' face. Question unless he was trying to get blown up, why would 'Akai' toss a grenade that explodes where he is going in a very seconds? Need Proof. Look at the bottom picture and see which way the gun is pointing and where the grenade is compared to it. Notice that the Grenade is exactly where 'Akai' appears a few seconds later. Kind of dangerous if boom kind, but safe if the smoke kind
Page 10
Compare the smoke we saw on the earlier pages to the explosions of the linking cars and the last car. Note that the charge to unlink car was already there. The grenade was inside not outside the car like either explosions. Also note that most of the black smoke stays with the last car and does not make it to the car where 'Akai' appeared
I am of the opinion that the smoke we see in the car is not from the BO smoke device, but from a few smoke bomb/grenades setup by KID to help his assistant with the necessary distraction so kid can get away. The timing for me between KID closing the door and 'Akai' appearance is perfect for a magic trick. Also again if 'Akai' had orders to remove Bourbon with a Grenade, they both might be dead.
But the assistant slipped away, again like a magic trick, and by now KID is close to taking off. KID's escape is very like a magic trick with the necessary elements so we do not see the trick as it happens.
@GinRei - these words - Page 7 Bourbon speaking "I'm going to destroy the link between the two carriages with an explosive ..." then Page 10 note the grenade stopped inside the car with Bourbon. The Blast is outside between the two cars like what was on page 7 and more for you Page 11 Vermouth speaking ... my colleague destroying the carriage link to the storage ..." In other words Explosives were setup in advance to explode and break the link between the two cars. the Grenade did not do that. Also note no word about an explosion in the car Bourbon was in. So we got no explosion, 'Akai' entering the space where the grenade is, and smoke. Could it be a different kind of grenade like a SMOKE GRENADE?
Ever hear of Smoke Grenade?
from the above page
Smoke grenades are canister-type grenades used as ground-to-ground or ground-to-air signaling devices, target or landing zone marking devices, or as screening devices for unit movements. Smoke grenades are normally considered non-lethal, although incorrect use may cause death. The body consists of a sheet steel cylinder with a four emission holes on top and one on the bottom to allow smoke release when the grenade is ignited. The filler consists of 250 to 350 grams of colored (red, green, orange, gray, yellow, blue, white, black, or violet) smoke composition (mostly potassium chlorate, lactose, and a dye). The reaction is exothermic and grenade casings will often remain scalding hot for some time even after the grenade is no longer emitting smoke.
Another type of smoke grenade is the bursting variation. These are filled with white phosphorus (WP), which is spread by explosive action. White phosphorus catches fire in the presence of air, and burns with a brilliant yellow flame, while producing copious amounts of white smoke (phosphorus pentoxide). These double as incendiary grenades, and a variant of these are also launched from infantry-portable or armored fighting vehicle-mounted grenade launchers. Users must also be wary of wind direction when using smoke grenades.
Smoke grenades should not be confused with smoke bombs, which are typically started with an external fuse rather than a pin. Smoke grenades often cost around $40 USD compared to smoke bombs, which can often cost just a few cents. Smoke grenades generally emit a far larger amount of smoke than smoke bombs that are sold as fireworks.
But you likely need more evidence to the fact that, that is what was and you shall have it.
Page 8
There are sound effects. Note just before KID closes the door how much smoke is in the car.
Next look at the amount of smoke when 'Akai" makes an appearence
I would guess he must have set off smoke bomb / grenade since there a lot of smoke and the BO smoke device is in the front of the train meaning the amount of smoke is too much for it to be coming from there
Page 9
Here we see the smoke grenade and 'Akai' face. Question unless he was trying to get blown up, why would 'Akai' toss a grenade that explodes where he is going in a very seconds? Need Proof. Look at the bottom picture and see which way the gun is pointing and where the grenade is compared to it. Notice that the Grenade is exactly where 'Akai' appears a few seconds later. Kind of dangerous if boom kind, but safe if the smoke kind
Page 10
Compare the smoke we saw on the earlier pages to the explosions of the linking cars and the last car. Note that the charge to unlink car was already there. The grenade was inside not outside the car like either explosions. Also note that most of the black smoke stays with the last car and does not make it to the car where 'Akai' appeared
I am of the opinion that the smoke we see in the car is not from the BO smoke device, but from a few smoke bomb/grenades setup by KID to help his assistant with the necessary distraction so kid can get away. The timing for me between KID closing the door and 'Akai' appearance is perfect for a magic trick. Also again if 'Akai' had orders to remove Bourbon with a Grenade, they both might be dead.
But the assistant slipped away, again like a magic trick, and by now KID is close to taking off. KID's escape is very like a magic trick with the necessary elements so we do not see the trick as it happens.
@GinRei - these words - Page 7 Bourbon speaking "I'm going to destroy the link between the two carriages with an explosive ..." then Page 10 note the grenade stopped inside the car with Bourbon. The Blast is outside between the two cars like what was on page 7 and more for you Page 11 Vermouth speaking ... my colleague destroying the carriage link to the storage ..." In other words Explosives were setup in advance to explode and break the link between the two cars. the Grenade did not do that. Also note no word about an explosion in the car Bourbon was in. So we got no explosion, 'Akai' entering the space where the grenade is, and smoke. Could it be a different kind of grenade like a SMOKE GRENADE?
Last edited by sstimson on July 9th, 2012, 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Later
Invisible Member
Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
- GinRei
- DCTP Staff Member
- 銀霊
Posts: 3388- Contact:
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
More clear than ever that you didn't actually read anything and just looked at the pictures. Vermouth set off a smoke bomb in the previous chapter with enough smoke coming out to make others think there was a fire. That's the smoke you're seeing. It wasn't from Akai.sstimson wrote: Page 8
There are sound effects. Note just before KID closes the door how much smoke is in the car.
Next look at the amount of smoke when 'Akai" makes an appearence
I would guess he must have set off smoke bomb / grenade since there a lot of smoke and the BO smoke device is in the front of the train meaning the amount of smoke is too much for it to be coming from there
Actually, the throws it forward, toward the car Kid is in, or at the very least drops it straight down. Either way, it's not "where he'll be".Page 9
Here we see the smoke grenade and 'Akai' face. Question unless he was trying to get blown up, why would 'Akai' toss a grenade that explodes where he is going in a very seconds? Need Proof. Look at the bottom picture and see which way the gun is pointing and where the grenade is compared to it. Notice that the Grenade is exactly where 'Akai' appears a few seconds later. Kind of dangerous if boom kind, but safe if the smoke kind
-
sstimson
- Everyone a Critic
Posts: 2588- Contact:
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
A few questions
Is it a crime to start a panic like yelling fire when there is no fire?
Let look at evidence. We got two explosions, one which might have left clues about (Link break one), A smoke bomb container which will have fingerprints, and unless they through their gun away, they will be found and more fingerprints. We have Bourbon yelling fire and being as far as I know the only one to look in that room. It will be come clear there never was a fire and thus the question, plus he will likely be suspected for the explosions as well. If Vermouth set the Smoke bomb then that will be found out and extra question for her as well. They are all currently about to be questioned by the police. And I say that will the Evidence, they can legal be detained. Again maybe their only crime they might get charged with will be fraud, and false fire alarm pulling, But there remains the possibility that the witness could add to those charges. Again Even though no BO crimes are being talked about, there is enough to hold those two for more questioning.
Next Question. The Deduction show happened in the same car as Sherry and Bourbon. Why were they not seen by the conductors who are to be near the end of cars unless needed, and even then are still in the same car? Even with one or more at the show, their job should have had others to take their place. Sherry at gun point should never happened. Someone should have seen that. Let me explain. Car is "on fire". Their job is to make sure all the rooms are empty and that after they have made sure, then next they make sure no one enters the Car. If they are doing their job, How did Sherry at gun point happen? And since it did happen, do you think that conductor will be fired? Also as Bourbon was there the whole time why did he not catch on to KIDS trick. KID had to enter a room and Bourbon had to see him do if. As Bourbon had to see this, what reason did he come up with for Sherry to have changed both clothes and faces.
Is it a crime to start a panic like yelling fire when there is no fire?
Let look at evidence. We got two explosions, one which might have left clues about (Link break one), A smoke bomb container which will have fingerprints, and unless they through their gun away, they will be found and more fingerprints. We have Bourbon yelling fire and being as far as I know the only one to look in that room. It will be come clear there never was a fire and thus the question, plus he will likely be suspected for the explosions as well. If Vermouth set the Smoke bomb then that will be found out and extra question for her as well. They are all currently about to be questioned by the police. And I say that will the Evidence, they can legal be detained. Again maybe their only crime they might get charged with will be fraud, and false fire alarm pulling, But there remains the possibility that the witness could add to those charges. Again Even though no BO crimes are being talked about, there is enough to hold those two for more questioning.
Next Question. The Deduction show happened in the same car as Sherry and Bourbon. Why were they not seen by the conductors who are to be near the end of cars unless needed, and even then are still in the same car? Even with one or more at the show, their job should have had others to take their place. Sherry at gun point should never happened. Someone should have seen that. Let me explain. Car is "on fire". Their job is to make sure all the rooms are empty and that after they have made sure, then next they make sure no one enters the Car. If they are doing their job, How did Sherry at gun point happen? And since it did happen, do you think that conductor will be fired? Also as Bourbon was there the whole time why did he not catch on to KIDS trick. KID had to enter a room and Bourbon had to see him do if. As Bourbon had to see this, what reason did he come up with for Sherry to have changed both clothes and faces.
Later
Invisible Member
Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
-
El Huesudo II
- BAROU
Posts: 378
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
All of that would require an accusation. Without an accusation, then there's no reason to detain Vermouth or Bourbon at all.sstimson wrote:Let look at evidence. We got two explosions, one which might have left clues about (Link break one), A smoke bomb container which will have fingerprints, and unless they through their gun away, they will be found and more fingerprints. We have Bourbon yelling fire and being as far as I know the only one to look in that room. It will be come clear there never was a fire and thus the question, plus he will likely be suspected for the explosions as well. If Vermouth set the Smoke bomb then that will be found out and extra question for her as well. They are all currently about to be questioned by the police. And I say that will the Evidence, they can legal be detained. Again maybe their only crime they might get charged with will be fraud, and false fire alarm pulling, But there remains the possibility that the witness could add to those charges. Again Even though no BO crimes are being talked about, there is enough to hold those two for more questioning.
Apart from Amuro shouting FIRE, none of what transpired was done in the presence of witnesses.
Bourbon and KID merely used panic to their advantage. People were panicking and the security staff on the train was busy relocating people away from the "fire". Also, Bourbon's fire stunt worked to his disadvantage, too. Magicians make a living out of working with smoke, Kid must have taken the smoke and the crowd to move unnoticed.sstimson wrote:Next Question. The Deduction show happened in the same car as Sherry and Bourbon. Why were they not seen by the conductors who are to be near the end of cars unless needed, and even then are still in the same car? Even with one or more at the show, their job should have had others to take their place. Sherry at gun point should never happened. Someone should have seen that. Let me explain. Car is "on fire". Their job is to make sure all the rooms are empty and that after they have made sure, then next they make sure no one enters the Car. If they are doing their job, How did Sherry at gun point happen? And since it did happen, do you think that conductor will be fired? Also as Bourbon was there the whole time why did he not catch on to KIDS trick. KID had to enter a room and Bourbon had to see him do if. As Bourbon had to see this, what reason did he come up with for Sherry to have changed both clothes and faces.
Also, Bourbon had no idea that Kid was around. Hell, had he known Kid was around then Conan's whole stunt would've been a waste of time.
-
Kor
- Administrator
Posts: 3051
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
What fingerprints? Both Bourbon and Vermouth used gloves. You can clearly see that in the files. It's the B.O. for crying out loud. Second, you need to stop assuming the police has any meta knowledge about the Org, because they don't. The police would not have any reason or purpose in arresting Amuro because as far as the police is concerned, he's just a normal citizen. He would also not be arrested for shouting "fire", you know why? He can simply say "I saw smoke and thought there's fire". The police wouldn't have any reason to think he's lying to them, because they don't know Amuro is part of a crime organization.sstimson wrote: Is it a crime to start a panic like yelling fire when there is no fire?
Let look at evidence. We got two explosions, one which might have left clues about (Link break one), A smoke bomb container which will have fingerprints, and unless they through their gun away, they will be found and more fingerprints. We have Bourbon yelling fire and being as far as I know the only one to look in that room. It will be come clear there never was a fire and thus the question, plus he will likely be suspected for the explosions as well. If Vermouth set the Smoke bomb then that will be found out and extra question for her as well. They are all currently about to be questioned by the police. And I say that will the Evidence, they can legal be detained. Again maybe their only crime they might get charged with will be fraud, and false fire alarm pulling, But there remains the possibility that the witness could add to those charges. Again Even though no BO crimes are being talked about, there is enough to hold those two for more questioning.

-
ShinRan4ver
Posts: 568
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
Just because you have legal grounds to arrest Vermouth and Bourbon at the station doesn't mean the FBI would do it(a point you insisted in multiple posts in this thread before). As I stated before, the FBI Japanese cell in all previous cases involving the BO aim to trap BO members when they are alone and capture them in areas where there are no Japanese civilians.sstimson wrote: A few questions
Is it a crime to start a panic like yelling fire when there is no fire?
Let look at evidence. We got two explosions, one which might have left clues about (Link break one), A smoke bomb container which will have fingerprints, and unless they through their gun away, they will be found and more fingerprints. We have Bourbon yelling fire and being as far as I know the only one to look in that room. It will be come clear there never was a fire and thus the question, plus he will likely be suspected for the explosions as well. If Vermouth set the Smoke bomb then that will be found out and extra question for her as well. They are all currently about to be questioned by the police. And I say that will the Evidence, they can legal be detained. Again maybe their only crime they might get charged with will be fraud, and false fire alarm pulling, But there remains the possibility that the witness could add to those charges. Again Even though no BO crimes are being talked about, there is enough to hold those two for more questioning.
Next Question. The Deduction show happened in the same car as Sherry and Bourbon. Why were they not seen by the conductors who are to be near the end of cars unless needed, and even then are still in the same car? Even with one or more at the show, their job should have had others to take their place. Sherry at gun point should never happened. Someone should have seen that. Let me explain. Car is "on fire". Their job is to make sure all the rooms are empty and that after they have made sure, then next they make sure no one enters the Car. If they are doing their job, How did Sherry at gun point happen? And since it did happen, do you think that conductor will be fired? Also as Bourbon was there the whole time why did he not catch on to KIDS trick. KID had to enter a room and Bourbon had to see him do if. As Bourbon had to see this, what reason did he come up with for Sherry to have changed both clothes and faces.
In episode 345, Jodie attempted to lure Vermouth out to the Pier alone and surround her with a lot of FBI agents even though recording Vermouth confessing she stole the Mouri Case File and pretended to be Araide would be enough to arrest her.
In episode 425 they captured Kir in the same method although they didn't know a boy would walk onto the highway,.
In the proceeding shoot-out between Akai and the BO snipers Akai admitted he could easily have aimed for leg shots to immoblize and capture the BO but if the gun fight continued civilians might get hurt so he stopped.
If FBI shows up this time at the station and attempt to arrest Vermouth and Bourbon in public, in front of hundreds of Japanese Civilians that would be a complete change in their M.O therefore totally unlikely.
Saying B.O would screw up this time and leave enough evidence for them to get arrested by Japanese Police is silly, not leaving any trace is the defining characteristic of B.O
The smoke bomb/C4 Explsovies-> Vermouth and Amuro were wearing gloves the entire time they were on the train, to think they would leave fingerprints on anything is ludicrous.
Saying you can find their guns and use that as evidence is silly, Akai, Jodie and Vermouth all passed the busjack case(230-231) police questioning even though they probably were armed. Amuro/ScarAkai fired a gun in the Bank Robbery case at a person and escaped the Police without trouble.
I'd like to know under what Japanese law is yelling fire when you see smoke is a crime( police can understand that logic), it is not lying under oath->perjury.
It is also not a coincidence Gosho had the storage car explode on a bridge, it can be logically assumed the explosion of a full train car of C4 would eviscerate all form of evidence, even more so when what's left probably got washed away by the water.
Last edited by ShinRan4ver on July 10th, 2012, 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
sstimson
- Everyone a Critic
Posts: 2588- Contact:
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
First I did not say arrest. I said held for questioning also known as a material witness. Second look at vol. 78 File 5 page 8. Vermouth is leaving her fingerprints on the guest book. notice no gloves. Also as the smoke bomb is left behind you can find out how it was set off and which phone did it. Vermouth fingerprints are on that phone. I will say it. THE BO screw up and left lots of evidence around. Third the law is Yelling 'Fire" see here and it is also called a false alarm which can and has caused death in the past. I know in the US it is against the law to do so and suspect that is also true in JapanShinRan4ver wrote:Just because you have legal grounds to arrest Vermouth and Bourbon at the station doesn't mean the FBI would do it. As I stated before, the FBI japanese cell in all previous cases involving the BO aim to trap BO members when they are alone and capture them in areas where there are no Japanese civilians.sstimson wrote: A few questions
Is it a crime to start a panic like yelling fire when there is no fire?
Let look at evidence. We got two explosions, one which might have left clues about (Link break one), A smoke bomb container which will have fingerprints, and unless they through their gun away, they will be found and more fingerprints. We have Bourbon yelling fire and being as far as I know the only one to look in that room. It will be come clear there never was a fire and thus the question, plus he will likely be suspected for the explosions as well. If Vermouth set the Smoke bomb then that will be found out and extra question for her as well. They are all currently about to be questioned by the police. And I say that will the Evidence, they can legal be detained. Again maybe their only crime they might get charged with will be fraud, and false fire alarm pulling, But there remains the possibility that the witness could add to those charges. Again Even though no BO crimes are being talked about, there is enough to hold those two for more questioning.
Next Question. The Deduction show happened in the same car as Sherry and Bourbon. Why were they not seen by the conductors who are to be near the end of cars unless needed, and even then are still in the same car? Even with one or more at the show, their job should have had others to take their place. Sherry at gun point should never happened. Someone should have seen that. Let me explain. Car is "on fire". Their job is to make sure all the rooms are empty and that after they have made sure, then next they make sure no one enters the Car. If they are doing their job, How did Sherry at gun point happen? And since it did happen, do you think that conductor will be fired? Also as Bourbon was there the whole time why did he not catch on to KIDS trick. KID had to enter a room and Bourbon had to see him do if. As Bourbon had to see this, what reason did he come up with for Sherry to have changed both clothes and faces.
In episode 345, Jodie attempted to lure Vermouth out to the Pier alone and surround her with a lot of FBI agents even though recording Vermouth confessing she stole the Mouri Case File and pretended to be Araide would be enough to arrest her.
In episode 425 they captured Kir in the same method although they didn't know a boy would walk onto the highway,.
In the proceeding shoot-out between Akai and the BO snipers Akai admitted he could easily have aimed for leg shots to immoblize and capture the BO but if the gun fight continued civilians might get hurt so he stopped.
If FBI shows up this time at the station and attempt to arrest Vermouth and Bourbon in public, in front of hundreds of Japanese Civilians that would be a complete change in their M.O therefore totally unlikely.
Saying B.O would screw up this time and leave enough evidence for them to get arrested by Japanese Police is silly, not leaving any trace is the defining characteristic of B.O
The smoke bomb-> did we see Vermouth plant it without a glove on? If she did it with Glove on there won't be any finger prints.
Saying you can find their guns and use that as evidence is silly, Akai, Jodie and Vermouth all passed the busjack case(230-231) police questioning even though they probably were armed. Amuro/ScarAkai fired a gun in the Bank Robbery case at a person and escaped the Police without trouble.
I'd like to know under what Japanese law is yelling fire when you see smoke is a crime( people can follow that logic), it is not lying under oath->perjury.
Later
Invisible Member
Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
- HADAA
- DCTP Staff Member
Posts: 361
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
sstimson wrote: look at vol. 78 File 5 page 8. Vermouth is leaving her fingerprints on the guest book. notice no gloves.
Spoiler:
Last edited by HADAA on July 10th, 2012, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Kor
- Administrator
Posts: 3051
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
Okay sstimson, there's being dense and there's ignoring evidence, but you are now showing you are completely oblivious to what's in front of your own eyes. Are you in need of glasses, or your mind is just playing tricks on you now just so you will find a gap to say that your theory is possible?
Guestbook? Vermouth is wearing gloves
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-5Read/A8.html
Suitcase? Vermouth is wearing gloves
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-5Read/A15.html
Yukiko's phone? It does seem like Vermouth is no longer wearing gloves at that point, however it doesn't matter anymore. So what if she touched Yukiko's phone? It can't be used against Vermouth you can't match it with anything she's done.
As for Amuro, he's constantly wearing gloves.
Person A leaves a smoke bomb in a building and leaves
Person B walks around the area with the smoke bomb
Person A activates the smoke bomb for the lulz
Person B assumes the smoke is from fire and tells everyone there's fire
The police can't do anything to person B because he thought there was fire based on the smoke from person A's smoke bomb. The police can't blame person B because of person A's actions.
EDIT: RMed by HADAA
Guestbook? Vermouth is wearing gloves
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-5Read/A8.html
Suitcase? Vermouth is wearing gloves
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-5Read/A15.html
Yukiko's phone? It does seem like Vermouth is no longer wearing gloves at that point, however it doesn't matter anymore. So what if she touched Yukiko's phone? It can't be used against Vermouth you can't match it with anything she's done.
As for Amuro, he's constantly wearing gloves.
What I find most interesting is that 2-3 years ago, you made your infamous "questionable theory" in which you continued to insist that it can't be possible the Org makes mistakes and that everything was planned by the Org to the very last detail. While I'm glad that it seems like you've abandoned that theory, you are kinda going with a complete 180 turn and now you are insisting that the Org is dumb enough to make even the most dumb mistakes.sstimson wrote: THE BO screw up and left lots of evidence around.
And you continue on ignoring even the most basic things. All Amuro has to say in this case is "I saw smoke and thought there was fire". Other people saw the smoke too. That law simply doesn't work with this case.sstimson wrote: Third the law is Yelling 'Fire" see here and it is also called a false alarm which can and has caused death in the past. I know in the US it is against the law to do so and suspect that is also true in Japan
Person A leaves a smoke bomb in a building and leaves
Person B walks around the area with the smoke bomb
Person A activates the smoke bomb for the lulz
Person B assumes the smoke is from fire and tells everyone there's fire
The police can't do anything to person B because he thought there was fire based on the smoke from person A's smoke bomb. The police can't blame person B because of person A's actions.
Yes, Amuro (person B) is in league with Vermouth (person A), but the police doesn't have any way of knowing that.Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;
EDIT: RMed by HADAA

- Kleene Onigiri
- Community Rice Warrior
- *punches Akonyl*
Posts: 2479
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
Evil smartphones forcing you to take off your gloves :VKor wrote: Yukiko's phone? It does seem like Vermouth is no longer wearing gloves at that point, however it doesn't matter anymore. So what if she touched Yukiko's phone? It can't be used against Vermouth you can't match it with anything she's done.

Keyhole drawn by Yuri Iwamoto <3
Spoiler: Secret Santa gift from Commi-Ninja <3
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Giff holidays
-
sstimson
- Everyone a Critic
Posts: 2588- Contact:
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
I concede this point because of belowsstimson wrote: look at vol. 78 File 5 page 8. Vermouth is leaving her fingerprints on the guest book. notice no gloves.
Spoiler:
More like I need to clean them more ;)HADAA wrote: I recommend getting a pair of new glasses, my friend. If you can't even read the file correctly, then all of your balloons are popped and nothing you say matters anymore.
You miss the point let us look at Vermouth hands starting hereKor wrote: Okay sstimson, there's being dense and there's ignoring evidence, but you are now showing you are completely oblivious to what's in front of your own eyes. Are you in need of glasses, or your mind is just playing tricks on you now just so you will find a gap to say that your theory is possible?
Guestbook? Vermouth is wearing gloves
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-5Read/A8.html
Suitcase? Vermouth is wearing gloves
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-5Read/A15.html
Yukiko's phone? It does seem like Vermouth is no longer wearing gloves at that point, however it doesn't matter anymore. So what if she touched Yukiko's phone? It can't be used against Vermouth you can't match it with anything she's done.
Spoiler: Vermouth holding her cell without gloves (see fingernails)
Spoiler: Vermouth with gloves?
Spoiler: Vermouth without gloves (see fingernails)
Spoiler: Vermouth and cell (without gloves - possible fingernail)
Spoiler: Holding Gun without gloves
1) while her fingerprints might not be on the bombs, they are on her phone and I am sure that the trigger part of those bombs can be traced back to her phone. If there are no other fingerprints, there will be questions about the bombs and inciting a panic
2) Her fingerprints would be on both the device to knock her out and on Sera clothes. No question here
3) Her fingerprints are on the gun used to hold Yukiko. That crime is called unlawful imprisonment. Again no question
Depending on who says what will somewhat determine the questions Vermouth must answer and if any charges are filed against her
Really See hereKor wrote: As for Amuro, he's constantly wearing gloves.
Spoiler: No gloves
Spoiler: still no gloves
Spoiler: Yes gloves here as handling painting
His Crimes. 1)Inciting Panic 2)unlawful imprisonment
He is also a material witness to the explosions (Last one to enter the car from the now last car)
1) Talked about below. It not so much what he said but the actions around how he says and how he behaves. There are sure to be at least questions about why he acted as he did when he knew about the possible fear of fire in the other passengers. And why he prevented the conductor for that section from doing his job and checking out the fire for himself. He is sure to be asked why he overreacted so much and get a talking down to about how his actions endangered his fellow passengers.
2)Granted this one will be hard to prove. But if Kid does not come back, then there is the question of a missing passengers, and a possible murder charge (last one to see them alive)
Material Witness. As he arrives in the car (likely car 7) after everyone else is already there, again he will be the last one to be in the area of the explosion. He got a few questions to answer.
Correction. There is how they should operate and how some agents do. I hope not all of the BO is as mindless as these two. I am pointing out Evidence they left behind. We have for sure a few Smoke bombs, and one side on the explosive charge residue. If their guns are still on them then there is that. Bourbon is sure to be seen leaving car 8 after the explosion, and he need to answer questions about that. There is no sign that the BO smoke bombs are like KID's Smoke Grenade and destroy them self during use. There is also the way Bourbon acted after and during yelling fire. A normal person does not act that way unless they see flames.Kor wrote:What I find most interesting is that 2-3 years ago, you made your infamous "questionable theory" in which you continued to insist that it can't be possible the Org makes mistakes and that everything was planned by the Org to the very last detail. While I'm glad that it seems like you've abandoned that theory, you are kinda going with a complete 180 turn and now you are insisting that the Org is dumb enough to make even the most dumb mistakes.sstimson wrote: THE BO screw up and left lots of evidence around.
Oh yes they do. No damage from fire plus smoke equal smoke bomb. And that is completely left behind and is definitely evidence.Kor wrote:sstimson wrote: Third the law is Yelling 'Fire" see here and it is also called a false alarm which can and has caused death in the past. I know in the US it is against the law to do so and suspect that is also true in Japan
And you continue on ignoring even the most basic things. All Amuro has to say in this case is "I saw smoke and thought there was fire". Other people saw the smoke too. That law simply doesn't work with this case.
Person A leaves a smoke bomb in a building and leaves
Person B walks around the area with the smoke bomb
Person A activates the smoke bomb for the lulz
Person B assumes the smoke is from fire and tells everyone there's fire
The police can't do anything to person B because he thought there was fire based on the smoke from person A's smoke bomb. The police can't blame person B because of person A's actions.
Yes, Amuro (person B) is in league with Vermouth (person A), but the police doesn't have any way of knowing that.Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;
also look at this picture
Spoiler: Bourbon yelling fire
As for your comments, he is acting like he saw flames. Otherwise why shout when he know people near him are likely scared of fire. Why not try to put out the fire? A normal person seeing smoke but no flames might try to put it out before it gets out of control. His actions say it is out of control. Also his actions prevent the proper agents from checking out the 'fire' as is his job. Sorry but in this case Bourbon can be brought up on charges of inciting panic
Last edited by sstimson on July 10th, 2012, 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Later
Invisible Member
Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
- Stopwatch
Posts: 1360
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
Considering the bomb is now blown up into dust-sized pieces at best, there's not going to be any information obtained from it. Even if the FBI could somehow get hold of her phone and the blown up carriage which is... in the middle of a huge, unstable (due to the explosion) bridge, there is no way to track it back to her.
I'll let the others handle the rest, they've got more patience than me
I'll let the others handle the rest, they've got more patience than me
Terry Pratchett wrote: The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
bash7353 wrote:I kind of always assumed that Haneda's parents might've had names.
Spoiler: Box full of stuff

Some year's SS by Abs. 

DCW SS from Anime Girl 4 Eva]

Thanks, cinna ^^
-
ShinRan4ver
Posts: 568
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
To suggest you can find information from their cell is ludicrous, but I expected nothing less from you. Whatever App/cell number that can be used to trigger the smoke bomb can be easily deleted, Vermouth could also easily throw that phone into the toilet to destroy all data on it(this tactic is used very often in the DC series) and use a different phone to call Gin at the station. Also, Did you see Vermouth return Yukkio's cell, she clearly didn't and have plenty of time to throw it away or leave it somewhere with fingerprints wiped off,(Yukkio can't get her arrested/detained for this as she is the only witness) therefore your precious "evidence" goes bye bye.
sstimson wrote: If their guns are still on them then there is that.
You didn't bother to read didn't you. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of not going to happen.ShinRan4ver wrote: Saying you can find their guns and use that as evidence is silly, Akai, Jodie and Vermouth all passed the busjack case(230-231) police questioning even though they probably were armed. Amuro/ScarAkai fired a gun in the Bank Robbery case at a person and escaped the Police without trouble
Last edited by ShinRan4ver on July 10th, 2012, 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Kor
- Administrator
Posts: 3051
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
Do you know why he doesn't wear gloves in the first two pics? Because that would be pointless. At that time there was no reason for him to wear gloves. Why would he wear gloves for no reason what so ever? There'd be no point. He shouldn't be concerned about leaving fingerprints at the earlier parts of the case because he wasn't doing anything.sstimson wrote:Really See hereKor wrote: As for Amuro, he's constantly wearing gloves.Spoiler: No glovesSpoiler: still no glovesI will give you he is holding a gun with gloves (Normally a bad idea). and a lot of the time his hands are in his pockets.Spoiler: Yes gloves here as handling painting
When he goes after Sherry he clearly wears gloves (which was what I meant. I couldn't care less whether or not he talked with Ran while he didn't wear gloves), and that's where it matters.

- Conan 48:69
Posts: 1228
Re: (SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the t
After Mystery Train Series over, what's next for Okiya, Sera and Amuro in File 825, especially Amuro, see if Amuro can continue to be Kogorou's disciple and go back to work at Poirot after revealed he is Bourbon or just disappear without informing Ran and Kogorou and simply go back to Black Organization HQ.
After taking a long time, Haibara finally begin to trust Okiya, but Haibara may think Okiya already know that she is Sherry, especially she ran away from Okiya and thought Okiya may kill her in File 821. Will Haibara go back to the time when she feared Okiya and assumed he is BO member again.
Will Conan inform FBI that Bourbon finally showed up himself since Jodie reminded him to give them a call if anything happens in File 622. Based on Conan's character, he may not do so.
After taking a long time, Haibara finally begin to trust Okiya, but Haibara may think Okiya already know that she is Sherry, especially she ran away from Okiya and thought Okiya may kill her in File 821. Will Haibara go back to the time when she feared Okiya and assumed he is BO member again.
Will Conan inform FBI that Bourbon finally showed up himself since Jodie reminded him to give them a call if anything happens in File 622. Based on Conan's character, he may not do so.

Welcome To DCTP Radio Show! From DJ Conan!











