(SPOILERS) Questions left unanswered at the end of the train

[HADAA]

Conan left KID to figure out how to keep himself safe. Think you are being asked to do something very dangerous. Why would you not try to get as mush intel as possible. Beside Conan almost said straight out You on your own.
Again Logical thinking. If KID has ever visited the USA, then as he normally does he would have stole something and thn returned it. But to do so he might have broke a different law like impression of a office of the law. It is possible the FBI has seen KID, and vise versa
so 1) My smirk comment. 2) Conan does not trust the assistant. Conan hopes (I would not say trust) that KID is prepared enough to be able to take care of himself. I think Conan basically left the details to KID on how to stay safe.
To try and again make you understand Conan ask KID to act as Haibara. He did not tell KID how to escape. KID in a way said as much.

This is not logical thinking but over-invented imagination. Ever heard of Occam's razor, or law of parsimony? It means a simpler explanation is better than an unnecessarily complex one. Here are two explanations for why apples fall from trees:
1. Apples fall from trees because gravity pulls them off.
2. Apples fall from trees because God, invisible to us, causes them to fall off.
In order for you to believe 2 is true, you have to invent evidence that God exists and throw us your imagination that God drops the apples by use of magic. This is what you're doing right now with that Kid's assistant theory.

You invented a surreal situation where Kid somehow has prior knowledge to the FBI and even how Akai looks like while he goes about his thieving business, and at a whim of the moment, decided to bring a second assistant just in case Conan would ask him to disguise as an Akai-like man who would smirk around, while himself disguised as Shiho. Reread page 14, Kid has NO KNOWLEDGE about Conan's situation at all - that's why he's asking Conan who those bad guys were, after their deal. You're just wasting your time trying to convince us that Kid already knew about Akai and the FBI - you might as well say God told him about it and God pulled off the apples.

Or you can just accept theory 1 - Kid only disguised as Shiho because Conan wanted him to. A generic auburn-colored wig and woman's clothes would do the trick. Akai was wearing Okiya's wig and glasses and put up foundation makeup to cover his eye corner, and Akai could easily take them off to reveal his true Akai face. This is even supported in Page 16 and it explains Conan's trust well. No wacky involvement about Kid's second assistant, no funny theory about Kid's rendezvous in the USA (Kid doesn't even KNOW about Akai, geez). Easy as that.

If you still want to believe it was God who makes apples fall off and Kid's assistant disguised as Akai while Okiya was an entirely different person, go ahead, I will not waste my time further. You can disagree about Akai's decision to leave Haibara alone in the room, about how irresponsible he was etc, but again, that does not prove that he wasn't Okiya.

[aly_angelflight]

Reading over the chapter again... I noticed that when Conan was calling his mother, the victim's body was right behind him. Did he even leave cabin 8 in the first place?

Isn't that the crowd panicking?

Hmm... could be if those white portions aren't a seat.

[GinRei]

So you are saying it is impossible for KID to have setup his assistant as Akai? You are saying that Conan would leave Haibara alone even with her history of "trying to protect" her friends?

Assuming she's asleep, how do you try to protect someone when you're asleep?  She doesn't have Spider-Sense, no matter what I may have put in a manga promo.

Assuming she's not asleep, then she's actively giving Kid information.  She knows the best way to protect others is by having "Sherry" die.  The best way to do that, as it currently stood, was to have Kid play her part and escape while the BO thinks she died.  She's not alone in the mental sense here, as she has Conan, Kid, Yukiko, and Okiya all helping her.  They set everything up around her so she doesn't need to think about what to do, she just has to play the role she is given.

Where would this second Kid assistant come from?  Who would it be?  Why would Kid divulge his identity to a second person, or how would they deduce it, and trust them with his heist plans?

Seriously, at this point you aren't even speculating or theorizing.  You're just making crap up because you don't like the way it went.

[ShinRan4ver]

So you are saying it is impossible for KID to have setup his assistant as Akai? You are saying that Conan would leave Haibara alone even with her history of "trying to protect" her friends?

Assuming she's asleep, how do you try to protect someone when you're asleep?  She doesn't have Spider-Sense, no matter what I may have put in a manga promo.

Assuming she's not asleep, then she's actively giving Kid information.  She knows the best way to protect others is by having "Sherry" die.  The best way to do that, as it currently stood, was to have Kid play her part and escape while the BO thinks she died.  She's not alone in the mental sense here, as she has Conan, Kid, Yukiko, and Okiya all helping her.  They set everything up around her so she doesn't need to think about what to do, she just has to play the role she is given.

Where would this second Kid assistant come from?  Who would it be?  Why would Kid divulge his identity to a second person, or how would they deduce it, and trust them with his heist plans?

Seriously, at this point you aren't even speculating or theorizing.  You're just making crap up because you don't like the way it went.

Instead of pulling out the "second Kid Assistant" out of thin air, he might have made more sense had he said it was Kid's Mom=Phantom Lady=Chikage who is currently touring the US with Yukkio according the MK canon. It still would be rather outlandish but wouldn't be totally insane.

[sstimson]

Conan left KID to figure out how to keep himself safe. Think you are being asked to do something very dangerous. Why would you not try to get as mush intel as possible. Beside Conan almost said straight out You on your own.
Again Logical thinking. If KID has ever visited the USA, then as he normally does he would have stole something and thn returned it. But to do so he might have broke a different law like impression of a office of the law. It is possible the FBI has seen KID, and vise versa
so 1) My smirk comment. 2) Conan does not trust the assistant. Conan hopes (I would not say trust) that KID is prepared enough to be able to take care of himself. I think Conan basically left the details to KID on how to stay safe.
To try and again make you understand Conan ask KID to act as Haibara. He did not tell KID how to escape. KID in a way said as much.

This is not logical thinking but over-invented imagination. Ever heard of Occam's razor, or law of parsimony? It means a simpler explanation is better than an unnecessarily complex one. Here are two explanations for why apples fall from trees:

1. Apples fall from trees because gravity pulls them off.
2. Apples fall from trees because God, invisible to us, causes them to fall off.

I like the third one

3. Apples fall from the trees because God, invisible to us, causes them to fall off using gravity

Also please explain to me why KID  could not have dressed the current assistant (The one in the wheelchair) as Akai?

Yes Haibara knows it is best if 'Sherry' Dies. But I think she think they will see through all tricks, and thus that is why twice she tried to get herself killed, Once by Vermouth and helper, once by a bomb on the bus. Even though Conan and Gang have a plan, I think she again think that something will happen and the results are as what happened the BO (at least a few characters) still know she is alive. I sure that unless there was not way for her not to stop sleep, she would head as far as she could to again try and kill herself. That is why a guard is needed. It is not just to protect her from the BO and any agents that might be near, but to protect her from herself. She faked being asleep once before and I believe she could do it again. I sure she know what drug is in Conan watch and the counter agent to it. She might have setup her body to make it hard to be drugged sleep. Again that why even if it looks like she is a sleep, someone need to make sure she actuality is. Also she might have learned the slow down your heart trick and the trance state. If you are not watching her every minute, you are going to get fooled by her wanting to protect her friend by death of herself. Again a guard is needed to prevent that. Anyone leaving her alone is asking for her to escape and possibly ruin the plan to keep her safe.

[Stopwatch]

Can we just leave religion out of this? It's not exactly on-topic

[HADAA]

While religion is only an example, sstimson's reply effectively solves the mystery regarding his train of thought. I'll keep Hickam's dictum in mind whenever I see your entertaining theory from now on
Kor and etc, it's official, there's no point arguing against.


The current assistant - we're obviously basing on MK now - is implied to be Jii Kounosuke (same goes for that pilot guy you mentioned). But no matter who the current assistant is, Kid had never seen Akai before, let alone knowing who Akai really is, not even about his smirk. His only opportunity to see Akai is probably on the train (Vermouth Akai), but if that were the case he and assistant would have put on the burn mark disguise too. This Akai (Page 9) didn't have a burn mark so this was not Kid's aide. And Kid (and assistant) never use grenades on people.

[Stopwatch]

While religion is only an example, sstimson's reply effectively solves the mystery regarding his train of thought. I'll keep Hickam's dictum in mind whenever I see your entertaining theory from now on
Kor and etc, it's official, there's no point arguing against.

Ah, so he'll look for the third option even when there isn't one because he doesn't want to choose an already existing option, but carve his own (often incorrect) path. Is it like that...?
And sorry sstimson, but it does seem to be the case most of the time *has done it herself on occasion* (at least I realise when I'm doing it though... well, I hope so )

So, back to the topic, the current question  was about whether Haibara was awake or not during the confrontation iirc...? I'm not decided myself yet, but Akai does appear exactly when it's crucial he's needed so he could easily have been listening in and so, feeding information to KID-Shiho is definitely possible.
(Shame we can't have KID-Shiho in Mafia ;_; :x)

[El Huesudo II]

Also please explain to me why KID  could not have dressed the current assistant (The one in the wheelchair) as Akai?

Because they'd need an Akai disguise for that. And neither Kid nor Jii has any indication of knowing Akai, or what he looks like, or anything about Conan's situation apart from what Kid was told (that is, how Shiho looks like and Haibara's dictations).

Also, for the love of god, why would Haibara need any kind of protection at this point? Kid was already posing as her, and Vermouth was also being kept busy by Yukiko, not to mention that she was also under the assumption that Haibara would have returned to her Shiho form by then. Neither Vermouth nor Bourbon was expecting Haibara/Shiho being anywhere else, and no one was even looking for her (as Conan and (most likely) Agasa already knew where she was).

Also, sstimson, the fact that the one being shown as Akai is the real Akai also satisfies one of your previous points about how you feel that letting a BO agent just go would be uncharacteristic of Akai. The man threw a goddamned hand grenade in Bourbon's direction. Yes, he meant to detach the car, but Bourbon was kinda right there. His only options were to either run in Akai's direction or take cover within the storage car and be blown to bits by Vermouth's explosives, or, well, the 3rd option of being blown to bits by the grenade. In a way, Akai was pretty much leaving Amuro's life up to chance.

And Akai pretty much had no choice but to do what he did, no one else could've thrown that grenade without risking being seen; and if Kid fled the storage car before anyone had the chance of detaching it from the train, then the jig would've been up and Haibara would have REALLY been in danger (along with everyone else).

(Which makes me think: Unless they're pretty daft or underestimating Bourbon, Conan and Akai are actually taking in consideration that they're adding fuel to the fire that is Amuro's suspicions of Akai being alive. Could it be part of their plans? OH GOD THIS IS EXCITING.)

[Kor]

The current assistant - we're obviously basing on MK now - is implied to be Jii Kounosuke (same goes for that pilot guy you mentioned).

Pretty sure the old dude you can see in page 16 in the latest file is supposed to be Jii.

[HADAA]

Well put, Stopwatch.
It's a good thing to doubt everything and look for a new solution, but it's a bad thing when a correct solution or hint is already given to you and yet you still reject that and carve a path to a cliff or hell. And it's tiring to repeatedly explain things to someone who flatly refuses to listen and to argue just for argument's sake. (I'll answer to questions but will stop wasting time from now on).

I have a feeling we'll be seeing more explanations in the next file.

Nice catch Kor! 

[sstimson]

Not that you interested by a possible way for KID to know about Akai without seeing him.

MK has KID opening his Dad's secret room. I am slowly working through MK. But we do know that KID's Dad was world wide and likely to have been in the USA. As the son tries to learn as must as possible about possible opponents, why not also the DAD? That room KID found could have a treasure trove of Intel on world wide law enforcement which would include the FBI and as it was 8 or 9 years ago when he died, he could have come across Akai working with the FBI.

Also a correction. What looks like a hand grenade is far more likely to be a smoke bomb and KID is known to use them. (Remember the pearls on Sonoko's Ship that sent out smoke)?

[ShinRan4ver]

Not that you interested by a possible way for KID to know about Akai without seeing him.

MK has KID opening his Dad's secret room. I am slowly working through MK. But we do know that KID's Dad was world wide and likely to have been in the USA. As the son tries to learn as must as possible about possible opponents, why not also the DAD? That room KID found could have a treasure trove of Intel on world wide law enforcement which would include the FBI and as it was 8 or 9 years ago when he died, he could have come across Akai working with the FBI.

Also a correction. What looks like a hand grenade is far more likely to be a smoke bomb and KID is known to use them. (Remember the pearls on Sonoko's Ship that sent out smoke)?

A military grenade(that's what that nade looked like, not a Can shaped Flash Grenade) that would explode and trigger C4 explosives and fully capable of killing anyone next to it with lethal shrapnel is in no way similiar to the smoke/flash bombs that KID used in early DC apperances. Had you made the comparison about  Kid used small timed explosive devices to breach windows in the Kirin Horn case that would have made more sense than your out of nowhere Black Pearl case comparison.  Still, KID nor his assistant would use a military grenade that can kill in any situation.

Not to mention your "if Akai was on the train he wouldn't let either Vermouth or Bourbon get away" agrument is silly, he wouldn't do that in such a risky situation and having to pass police questioning later anyway. In episode 425 he had 5 BO member cornered on the building next to Mouri's agency, having injured Gin and broken one of their 2 sniper rifles, he could have easily shot their legs to trap them there but he let them go b/c escalating the firefight could injure civilians. FBI's MO is clear about capturing B.O member in secret and draw the minimum amount of attention possible(remember that's their plan to capture Kir), having  the entire FBI japanese cell show up at the station to arrest Vermouth and Bourbon in broad daylight is completely against that known MO.
p.s KID wouldn't use things that looks dangerous, in all previous cases his smoke bomb etc are cards(Four Master Piece case)/Pearls(the Black Pearl case) etc, using a smoke bomb that's similar to a military grenade would be Phantom Lady's MO but certainly not KID's.

[Kor]

No sstimson, just no. Besides the fact that it doesn't make any sense and you don't have any evidence to support this theory, you are basically contradicting yourself in your very own theory:

MK has KID opening his Dad's secret room. I am slowly working through MK. But we do know that KID's Dad was world wide and likely to have been in the USA. As the son tries to learn as must as possible about possible opponents, why not also the DAD? That room KID found could have a treasure trove of Intel on world wide law enforcement which would include the FBI and as it was 8 or 9 years ago when he died, he could have come across Akai working with the FBI.

8-9 years ago, Akai was probably in his early twenties (or might have been at his late teens if we assume Akai is Okiya's age). Even if Akai was already at the FBI back then, do you really think he was of any significance back then?

[GinRei]

Also a correction. What looks like a hand grenade is far more likely to be a smoke bomb and KID is known to use them. (Remember the pearls on Sonoko's Ship that sent out smoke)?

You clearly didn't read the chapter.  Grenade is thrown.  It explodes.  It detatches the cars from each other.  Do smoke bombs do that?  No.  Seriously, reading comprehension.

You seriously need to stop crafting these elaborate ways your ideas could work that rely on absolute imagination and just use source material.  This is why people listen to Chekov, and why your posts are bad fan fiction.