Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
...Offtopic, but this is the first time I think I've seen you around so I just want to say that the Calvin and Hobbes sig from the "Summer Days" sunday strip is pure and utter win
Midi wrote:
There are three or four points that jumped out to my mind in these recent files, and reading the thread just made more pop up, like...
a) Does Okiya know Ba Gua, or another form of non-resistance martial art? Are FBI agents taught basic self defence and 'how to fall' techniques? I am sold on Chek's theory, but I never saw Akai performing any Martial Art.
Akai was going in for a crouching backhanded sort of chop in the bus hijacking case, only to have Conan stun the guy before he could connect. Okiya also slapped a knife out of a guy's hand to rescue Ayumi. In the Agasa hostage case, whatever Okiya did laid the guy out.
Midi wrote:
b) The Rat-Tail comb. This site http://www.articlesbase.com/beauty-arti ... 27574.html actually lists it as a requirement for lace wigs, and a quick google search of 'rat tail comb' brought up many sites first about lace wigs.
These lace wigs are interesting. I think the comb is simply used to part and control the hair rather than for upkeep though. I wonder if rat-tail combs are not common in Japan or only used for specific purposes because a lot of natural haired guys I know use them often to control cowlicks and style their hair in the morning.
But if he removes it and wears it every morning, he will need the comb to put it back on - signs of which may be what Sera saw. If he sleeps with it on the other hand, it may have had marks of wear, fixing of which may require the comb - also signs of which Sera may have seen. Darn that pesky high collar; the angle for us was completely wrong to see what Sera saw.
EDIT: I have also not been able to find any conclusive evidence, but Google searching brought up that Rat-tails are suggested in Japan to use on dolls, wig hair made out of mohair, and to affix normal tooth-comb wigs. They are also used in styling, however, so Okiya's gesture may simply mean he's dramatic about his hair in the morning before he's had his first glass of coffee.
I still like the idea of the voice changer too, though. His collar was zipped up when he came into the next room.
Question: one which you can answer better than anyone, Chek: Have we ever seen Akai with a low collar? If I recal properly, we actually haven't. May he be hiding an identification sign of some sort? Ai knew ... so perhaps something that came out in a medical test or a wound he received during 'service' with the BO.
Last edited by Midi on April 21st, 2012, 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Despite the very exciting and significant plot advances, the tone in these past three chapters is rather ominous. I so very much want to believe that Okiya=Akai, but the degree to which Conan is wary of Okiya's knowledge about Shinichi has always bothered me a lot. Furthermore, Sera is rather suspicious herself here. She avoids giving a statement to the police, excusing herself on an important errand, and looks back at Ran and Conan with sadness? regret? Could that errand have anything to do with the Black Org, and could that regret be stemming from the fact that she has learned (or strongly suspects) an important truth about about Conan, and feels bound to report it to her superiors despite a sense of partiality for Ran and/or Conan?
...the degree to which Conan is wary of Okiya's knowledge about Shinichi has always bothered me a lot.
Spoiler:
I completely agree with you, Codex. There was something in his expression when they were discussing
Spoiler:
Kinichi vs Shinichi that I found unsettling. He could of course be worried that Akai, if so he is, would no longer trust him for lying... only Gosho knows.
As for Sera, her reaction could also be due to the fact that Okiya, when she walked in was washing his teeth with his right hand, and not his left at all. Of course we as readers are then shown that the left was in his pocket to hide the comb. Her reaction at the end could also be a conclusion drawn from this: The scene with Ran can remind her of time spent with her brother, as has already been brilliantly suggested, and she could be a 'bad kid' because either she quarrelled and lost contact with her brother before he left America, and has now lost the chance of making up with him in her mind, or because she's bad for having wasted everybody's time and nosed into their affairs for nothing.
Conan's insistance that they leave the library and go to the kitchen and stay there also made me think, as well as his annoyance at them coming at all. Could there be anyone else in the house? Maybe Shin-chan this time knows his parents are there. We'll see.
These theories of course all take on Chek's theories as clue-supported fact. Slightly dangerous to speculate without Holmes' "Data! I need more data!" ... but that is half the joy, after all!
It wasn't even just the bathroom instance where Okiya was using his right hand. He used it throughout the entire case as his primary hand. He was either doing this purposely, or this was not the same Okiya we've been seeing all this time. If that's the case, whatever he found out about Conan this case won't necessarily apply to what the left handed Okiya knows. God this is confusing...
Yes he did, but he knew this already after the paper airplane case. Listening to Conan use Shinichi's voice was just the absolute proof he didn't have.
Midi wrote:
There are three or four points that jumped out to my mind in these recent files, and reading the thread just made more pop up, like...
a) Does Okiya know Ba Gua, or another form of non-resistance martial art? Are FBI agents taught basic self defence and 'how to fall' techniques? I am sold on Chek's theory, but I never saw Akai performing any Martial Art.
Akai was going in for a crouching backhanded sort of chop in the bus hijacking case, only to have Conan stun the guy before he could connect. Okiya also slapped a knife out of a guy's hand to rescue Ayumi. In the Agasa hostage case, whatever Okiya did laid the guy out.
Midi wrote:
b) The Rat-Tail comb. This site http://www.articlesbase.com/beauty-arti ... 27574.html actually lists it as a requirement for lace wigs, and a quick google search of 'rat tail comb' brought up many sites first about lace wigs.
These lace wigs are interesting. I think the comb is simply used to part and control the hair rather than for upkeep though. I wonder if rat-tail combs are not common in Japan or only used for specific purposes because a lot of natural haired guys I know use them often to control cowlicks and style their hair in the morning.
But if he removes it and wears it every morning, he will need the comb to put it back on - signs of which may be what Sera saw. If he sleeps with it on the other hand, it may have had marks of wear, fixing of which may require the comb - also signs of which Sera may have seen. Darn that pesky high collar; the angle for us was completely wrong to see what Sera saw.
EDIT: I have also not been able to find any conclusive evidence, but Google searching brought up that Rat-tails are suggested in Japan to use on dolls, wig hair made out of mohair, and to affix normal tooth-comb wigs. They are also used in styling, however, so Okiya's gesture may simply mean he's dramatic about his hair in the morning before he's had his first glass of coffee.
I still like the idea of the voice changer too, though. His collar was zipped up when he came into the next room.
Question: one which you can answer better than anyone, Chek: Have we ever seen Akai with a low collar? If I recal properly, we actually haven't. May he be hiding an identification sign of some sort? Ai knew ... so perhaps something that came out in a medical test or a wound he received during 'service' with the BO.
Missed this, oops. Yes we have seen him in a low collar but only in a low quality flashback in the past with Akemi. It happened in the recent case where Haibara was thinking about Moroboshi Dai.
Does anyone know which prefuncture that comes from? It's not Kansai-ben, because that has a distinct ring to it, and its definitely not Tokyo-ben either ... any ideas?
Oh and Kaitokid41:
Spoiler:
you know, the thought had crossed my mind too. The motivations for Sera being Akai's sister and ALSO being in the BO are several (she foolishly followed him in; she was coerced/convinced in as a revenge to Akai; she is yet another undercover dudette; she woke up one morning and thought - you know what would make my life really rad! ... no wait, never mind the last one). I do not know how viable that option is, but Gosho would have trolled us rather smoothly with all his gundam references if that is the case.
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Midi wrote:
Spoiler:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Midi wrote:
There are three or four points that jumped out to my mind in these recent files, and reading the thread just made more pop up, like...
a) Does Okiya know Ba Gua, or another form of non-resistance martial art? Are FBI agents taught basic self defence and 'how to fall' techniques? I am sold on Chek's theory, but I never saw Akai performing any Martial Art.
Akai was going in for a crouching backhanded sort of chop in the bus hijacking case, only to have Conan stun the guy before he could connect. Okiya also slapped a knife out of a guy's hand to rescue Ayumi. In the Agasa hostage case, whatever Okiya did laid the guy out.
Midi wrote:
b) The Rat-Tail comb. This site http://www.articlesbase.com/beauty-arti ... 27574.html actually lists it as a requirement for lace wigs, and a quick google search of 'rat tail comb' brought up many sites first about lace wigs.
These lace wigs are interesting. I think the comb is simply used to part and control the hair rather than for upkeep though. I wonder if rat-tail combs are not common in Japan or only used for specific purposes because a lot of natural haired guys I know use them often to control cowlicks and style their hair in the morning.
But if he removes it and wears it every morning, he will need the comb to put it back on - signs of which may be what Sera saw. If he sleeps with it on the other hand, it may have had marks of wear, fixing of which may require the comb - also signs of which Sera may have seen. Darn that pesky high collar; the angle for us was completely wrong to see what Sera saw.
EDIT: I have also not been able to find any conclusive evidence, but Google searching brought up that Rat-tails are suggested in Japan to use on dolls, wig hair made out of mohair, and to affix normal tooth-comb wigs. They are also used in styling, however, so Okiya's gesture may simply mean he's dramatic about his hair in the morning before he's had his first glass of coffee.
I still like the idea of the voice changer too, though. His collar was zipped up when he came into the next room.
Question: one which you can answer better than anyone, Chek: Have we ever seen Akai with a low collar? If I recal properly, we actually haven't. May he be hiding an identification sign of some sort? Ai knew ... so perhaps something that came out in a medical test or a wound he received during 'service' with the BO.
Missed this, oops. Yes we have seen him in a low collar but only in a low quality flashback in the past with Akemi. It happened in the recent case where Haibara was thinking about Moroboshi Dai.
Therefore ... even in the flashback, this was before he left the BO, and potentially before any recognisable mark may have been left on his adam's apple-less neck! Quick, to the archive machine! I need to see what collar the man was wearing when Agent Camel blew years of undercover work and endured atrocities up in Akai's face!
Looks like Akai has his collar raised up but a low tshirt underneath, so his neck is exposed at the front, but not at the side. It is still the same attire he wore in Shiho's flashback, however, so his neck may still be clear of marks if that is any indication. A completely covered up neck may have been leading, but this is simply inconclusive.
ALSO: What did he mean at the end by 'put an end to it?' ... one does not simply go up to The Boss and give one's resignation from the Spirit Cabinet of Doom.
Last edited by Midi on April 23rd, 2012, 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looks like Akai has his collar raised up but a low tshirt underneath, so his neck is exposed at the front, but not at the side. It is still the same attire he wore in Shiho's flashback, however, so his neck may still be clear of marks if that is any indication. A completely covered up neck may have been leading, but this is simply inconclusive.
ALSO: What did he mean at the end by 'put an end to it?' ... one does not simply go up to The Boss and give one's resignation from the Spirit Cabinet of Doom.
There is this flashback from Jodie. At that time Akai wasn't in the org anymore and his neck is shown having no marks etc.. although we can see his neck better in the anime version.
By "put an end to it" he simply means to quit the FBI.
Last edited by Incomplete-tantei on April 24th, 2012, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
