Homosexuality: A Survey

[Conia]

Dwalin, I'll just be concise here: There's really no need for you post this on this thread. If you really wish to keep on with this, PM the people involved in it. That's all.

Also, to everyone else: It would be best to also avoid posting about this matter. As I said, if you wish to keep on with this, do it in PMs.

[Jd-]

You know, reflecting on the topic after all this time, after having followed some recent discussions on the same topic elsewhere, I wonder why do some people reject the idea of really DEBATING about homosexuality and religion in a POLITE way instead of just biting at each other’s throats and never accepting the possibility they may be wrong themselves? I ALWAYS consider such a possibility about myself when I am talking to somebody. The ideal of equality for homosexuals doesn’t seem wrong to me at all, but the absurd arrogance of some people who pretend to promote it surely does.

If you were to spend an adequate amount of time entertaining the possibility that you were wrong, you would inevitably (and finally) come to the conclusion that you are, in fact, wrong. I haven't seen you do that in any debate yet in which it's been demonstrated you're in the wrong, so until that time comes, I have no choice but to assume you still need more time. You were offensive and very impolite to others in your many posts in this topic, and apparently still have not learned your lesson even after all this time. However much time you spent "reflecting", it seems to me it wasn't quite enough. If you want people to treat you with politeness, don't treat other people as lesser beings for the way they were born. I don't really see how that's a very difficult proposition. It's like saying, "I have nothing against white people, I just don't think they should be allowed to have the same opportunities I do" and then expecting everyone to shower me in kindness just because I showed up for the debate. The way you present yourself has everything to do with how you and your words are perceived.

I am sure Jd will follow his arrogance anyway.

You forgot a hyphen. If it's all the same, I also like to see my name with the color blue when mentioned, so please render it as "Jd-" next time.

Also, it really is too obvious at this point, but... you did completely contradict the entire purpose of your post at the end. I mean, really—I can understand contradicting yourself if it's a day and a few posts later, but... that was just one paragraph removed from where you were trying to make the point you immediately contradicted. Please set a better example if you wish for your grand ponderings to be taken with even the slightest grain of sincerity.

[Dwalin]

If you were to spend an adequate amount of time entertaining the possibility that you were wrong, you would inevitably (and finally) come to the conclusion that you are, in fact, wrong. I haven't seen you do that in any debate yet in which it's been demonstrated you're in the wrong, so until that time comes, I have no choice but to assume you still need more time. You were offensive and very impolite to others in your many posts in this topic, and apparently still have not learned your lesson even after all this time. However much time you spent "reflecting", it seems to me it wasn't quite enough. If you want people to treat you with politeness, don't treat other people as lesser beings for the way they were born. I don't really see how that's a very difficult proposition. It's like saying, "I have nothing against white people, I just don't think they should be allowed to have the same opportunities I do" and then expecting everyone to shower me in kindness just because I showed up for the debate. The way you present yourself has everything to do with how you and your words are perceived.

Then what exactly was I wrong in? In following the New Testament of a religion which doesn't even forbid homosexuality (only the Old Testament that I don't follow does that)? And what do you mean by "I just don't think they should be allowed to have the same opportunities I do"? When did I ever say that? At least don't present outright lies when you talk about what I said please. As for sending you PM like Conia suggested, I did that, but you obviously think that answering them is below you dignity.

If you were to spend an adequate amount of time entertaining the possibility that you were wrong, you would inevitably (and finally) come to the conclusion that you are, in fact, wrong.

After this, I really don't see how me claiming that you are arrogant can be considered an offense. Here you are in fact pretending to be a supreme judge of what's right and what's wrong.

[ziraulo]

Woah, it's alive! XD

Anyway, I just wanted to post and say "Thank You" to all the people who posted here. I didn't get the paper back, but I did see the shiny "94" grade on my report card. ^^ So once again, thanks a whole bunch for all of you here.

Back to the current state of affairs: Should I lock this thread or something? It really looks like the discussion's gotten way out of hand.

[Vylash]

Nah, I think this thread can actually be a point of good discussion when there's not personal insults and other crap being thrown around

[Akonyl]

*looks at thread*

die, monster! You don't belong in this world!

[Jd-]

Then what exactly was I wrong in? In following the New Testament of a religion which doesn't even forbid homosexuality (only the Old Testament that I don't follow does that)? And what do you mean by "I just don't think they should be allowed to have the same opportunities I do"? When did I ever say that? At least don't present outright lies when you talk about what I said please. As for sending you PM like Conia suggested, I did that, but you obviously think that answering them is below you dignity.

You are kidding yourself. Do you really see yourself as completely innocent in the things you said in this topic? I have met some people with poor memories, but none so poor as that. Dwalin, if you were really so innocent, why do you think it is that so many people have such a reflex to you posting here again? Think about it objectively for once. Making yourself out to be the victim is not going to cut it this time (I've said it before and I'll continue to say it until you stop doing it). You are asking me to go back through a debate from four months ago that involved a lot more people than just you (sorry to say that you were not really a major player as far as I was concerned--you were more like target practice, due to you raising no valid points whatsoever that I can recall).

You may want to take note of this now because I won't be saying it anymore after this post: I will not be continuing the debate from four months ago, because it is over, and I said all that I needed to say at that time and feel content with the arguments and counterarguments I presented at that time. If I had anything more to say, I would have said it then, just like you should have if it really meant so much to you. The rest of us have moved on. You should too.

Let me give you some advice. If you want to be taken seriously in debates, you need to realize something: you cannot pretend that things didn't happen and somehow feel that reflects positively on you as a result of that fantasy. Do you notice that you just did it again? I pointed out the hypocrisy of your last post quite clearly and you naturally did not address that at all. There were several points in this topic in which I do distinctly remember calling you out on this very thing, and you never once (out of many, many opportunities) were able to put up even the slightest fight against it. The simple fact of the matter is that your debating style is too linear and self-serving: you really only think of what will benefit you and then try to pretend that the other side didn't trounce you in the times they very clearly did. Again: Ignoring that something has happened does not mean it didn't happen. The sad part is that you can't even make this style work for you. If you're going to be exclusionary of the facts and the other side of a debate, at least try to do so convincingly.

Oh, and the reason I didn't answer your PM from two weeks ago that you sent about a debate from four months ago? (That alone is reason itself, by the way) It's because, in it, you were rude and disrespectful not just toward me (who you were unkindly requesting time from, which is a commodity I won't be offering to you on this subject), but against others in the community. If you want people to offer you their time for a discussion, you need to stop seeing yourself as so important as to automatically deserve it and also need to stop being so belligerent in the process.

What's most sad about this is you sent that PM two weeks ago, which means you must have been thinking about this day and night ever since to finally bring it back up in this topic. If you had PM'd me even in the month after the debate came to an end, I would have gladly responded, but doing so four months later and trying to ask me random, out-of-context questions for your own benefit? Sorry, that's not how things work. You can't show up to the Super Bowl in June and say, "All right, coach! Put me in! I'm finally ready!"

This may come as hard to hear, but I don't like people wasting my time, and that's what these conversations with you feel like. You are clearly only interested in preserving some sort of personal admiration for yourself, because the issue at hand is long, long over, and it's now all about Dwalin and him being able to salvage some respect for himself. You didn't come back to this topic or send me that PM because of the issue itself. You did it for yourself, and I'm not intrigued by you enough to feel you warrant further discussion.

[Dwalin]

Jd- says:

Oh, and the reason I didn't answer your PM from two weeks ago that you sent about a debate from four months ago? (That alone is reason itself, by the way) It's because, in it, you were rude and disrespectful not just toward me (who you were unkindly requesting time from, which is a commodity I won't be offering to you on this subject), but against others in the community.

If you don't mind, I will post the letter here and maybe SOMEBODY ELSE (since YOU don't want to talk about it anymore) could please tell me where I was rude in this post?

I just happened to re-read some old threads including the one in which we argued about religion and homosexuality and there are a couple of questions I forgot to ask you before (you said before you would prefer such discussions to take place in PM rather then directly in the thread):

What I meant is that I prefer to disregard the Old Testament because, as I said, I don't believe it to represent outright God's will for the present time. The question of homosexuality is openly discussed only in the Old Testament, as far as I know.

What you said was not correct and neither is what you've just said here. Re-read the statement and decide whether you agree or not.

What did you mean by that? Did you mean that I am wrong about stating there was no persecution of homosexuality in the New Testament? If that’s it, could you tell me WHERE exactly does the New Testament say anything against homosexuals? If it did say something like that, then I would agree with you that following that particular line would be wrong but, since there doesn’t seem to be any attack on homosexuals in the New Testament, why would I be “desperately and utterly wrongâ€

[Jd-]

I don't care what Jd- and PhoenixTears will think about it

Annnnd you still can't tell why people wouldn't want to talk with you? Specifically, me, the person you sent that PM to?

Also, bravo on yet again ignoring every point I raised about you. Again, again, again.

I'll be back tomorrow. Good luck on your quest for self-validation (looks like you're going to need it).

[sonoci]

Anyway, I just wanted to post and say "Thank You" to all the people who posted here. I didn't get the paper back, but I did see the shiny "94" grade on my report card. ^^ So once again, thanks a whole bunch for all of you here.

You're welcome ^^ If it's okay (and maybe if you still have it) could you PM me with the report? If it's that good, and our input helped, I'd like to see it (Of course, only if it's okay with you xD)

Back to the current state of affairs: Should I lock this thread or something? It really looks like the discussion's gotten way out of hand.

Hrrm. I would saaay...

I think this thread can actually be a point of good discussion when there's not personal insults and other crap being thrown around

...so...I don't know  My personal thought when it "died" before was sort of on the lines of what Akonyl said (xD; ) and it seems it's just between Jd- and Dwalin now so PMs would suffice. I myself would close it, but really, it's your choice 

[Dwalin]

Annnnd you still can't tell why people wouldn't want to talk with you? Specifically, me, the person you sent that PM to?

I am just talking in the same condescending manner as you and you friend PhoenixTears do. Why don't you just ignore me or ban me if you think I am a troll not worthy of your time? I know many people, but nobody among them, both in internet and real life have ever had such a reaction at what I say. It's not a victimizing statement, you can't surely think that I might consider myself a victim in a real sense of this word just because TWO people think they are ALWAYS right and act with hostility towards me?

Also, bravo on yet again ignoring every point I raised about you. Again, again, again.

Just like you are ignoring everything I said about you overestimating yourself and elevating yourself to be the judge of what's right and what's wrong.

[PT]

Why are you bringing me back into this? All I've even done to you in the last FOUR MONTHS was point out that you didn't need to revive this thread, and you're being hypocritical. Unless you have something constructive and polite to say to me, then do not mention me again, please.

[kkslider5552000]

*looks at thread*

die, monster! You don't belong in this world!

It is not by my hand that this thread was revived. It was called here by idiots who wish to pay me tribute!

[Akonyl]

*looks at thread*

die, monster! You don't belong in this world!

It is not by my hand that this thread was revived. It was called here by idiots who wish to pay me tribute!

Tribute? You steal men's posts and make them your slaves!

[kkslider5552000]

*looks at thread*

die, monster! You don't belong in this world!

It is not by my hand that this thread was revived. It was called here by idiots who wish to pay me tribute!

Tribute? You steal men's posts and make them your slaves!

Perhaps the same could be said of all forums...