Thoughts: Will Shiho Miyano Return?

[doublemoonlight]

personally I think it is best if she stays as a child... and it would not be wast of her developemnt. After all Haibara now is fairly different person then when she was first introduced.

[Sherry86]

Well, I think many people just forget that Ai's life is more tragic than Shiho's life :
- Ai didn't have parents, didn't have family, because it was just a fake identity. Shiho had parents and sister who loves her although they already deceased.
- Ai will living a lie which will make her feels lonely although she has friends. She didn't feel lonely now because Conan was there with her. But when Conan gone, she will all alone with the kids who she can't relate to.
- Ai can't get a lover immediately. She should wait for years just to get a love of her life. (Note : I'm sure she wasn't a shotacon).
Another thing is Ai have learned some lesson of life until now :
- Someone won't get true friend with some money and some lies.
- If she keeps running away, she won't win.
And who says Shiho didn't have a future? She's still 18 years old for goodness sake! 18 years old genius! There're so many things she can do for the sake of human being if she really sorry with what she has done in the past.
But if Shiho is really 84 years old grandma, I will have to agree that she didn't have a future. 

[AICHAN]

Well, I think many people just forget that Ai's life is more tragic than Shiho's life :
- Ai didn't have parents, didn't have family, because it was just a fake identity. Shiho had parents and sister who loves her although they already deceased.
- Ai will living a lie which will make her feels lonely although she has friends. She didn't feel lonely now because Conan was there with her. But when Conan gone, she will all alone with the kids who she can't relate to.
- Ai can't get a lover immediately. She should wait for years just to get a love of her life. (Note : I'm sure she wasn't a shotacon).
Another thing is Ai have learned some lesson of life until now :
- Someone won't get true friend with some money and some lies.
- If she keeps running away, she won't win.
And who says Shiho didn't have a future? She's still 18 years old for goodness sake! 18 years old genius! There're so many things she can do for the sake of human being if she really sorry with what she has done in the past.
But if Shiho is really 84 years old grandma, I will have to agree that she didn't have a future. 

Agreed^^

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

If tragic somehow means happier and better quality of life, sure Ai's life is more tragic

Well, I think many people just forget that Ai's life is more tragic than Shiho's life :
- Ai didn't have parents, didn't have family, because it was just a fake identity. Shiho had parents and sister who loves her although they already deceased.

Ai has Agasa, the detective boys, and Conan, and Ran who cares about her dearly. Her support and friend network is much larger. Shiho had one such person, Akemi, who is dead.

- Ai will living a lie which will make her feels lonely although she has friends. She didn't feel lonely now because Conan was there with her. But when Conan gone, she will all alone with the kids who she can't relate to.

She may be living a "lie", but she is certainly a lot happier now that she was ever in the Org. Maybe as Ai, she is living more like how she intended and desired to be than when she was in the Org being forced to do things she found unethical or distasteful. Which is the lie then? Also it is not like Conan will be going away and abandoning her. He will become Shinichi who certainly isn't going to ignore Haibara after all the time and effort spent together. Same with the DB and Agasa. It is clear Haibara likes the DB, although they are childlike.

- Ai can't get a lover immediately. She should wait for years just to get a love of her life.

You don't have to have a lover to be happy or enjoy life, not does not having one decrease the quality of life.

- Someone won't get true friend with some money and some lies.

Citation Please. Where are you getting this from?

- If she keeps running away, she won't win.

Staying small isn't running away. It is moving into a new life situation. The only thing left for Shiho after the Black Org falls are a bunch of angry left over Black Org members who would probably like to kill her, angry civilians whose friends and relatives were killed by her poison, and potential prosecution. Shiho has no family and no friends. To go back to Shiho would likely mean leaving Agasa and the DB for their protection. That would be true sorrow.

And who says Shiho didn't have a future? She's still 18 years old for goodness sake! 18 years old genius! There're so many things she can do for the sake of human being if she really sorry with what she has done in the past.

She can do science as Haibara too and with a lot less complication from the darkness of her past. All she has to do is wait a while. Shiho clearly has no desire for fame, even in the sciences, so I doubt that spending a quiet decade in a lab keeping her findings to herself will be painful. Heck she could use Agasa as a front for her science if she wished.

[AICHAN]

Being Shiho doesn't necessary means leaving Agasa and the DB...
And facing her responsibilities,even if that could lead to a prosecution, would be a real proof that she has changed,and she's not running away from her past.

I don't think staying as a child,erasing her real identity and ignoring the victims of her poison is the best choice for her...

I still think it would be a waste in her character development,and not a good lesson for children who are reading DC XDDD

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Being Shiho doesn't necessary means leaving Agasa and the DB...

It does if she wants to protect them from the remnants of the Org who will consider her the traitor who helped get the Org destroyed. Also if she is prosecuted, I imagine that would put a crimp in things.

And facing her responsibilities,even if that could lead to a prosecution, would be a real proof that she has changed,and she's not running away from her past.

I don't really see how facing the law would lead any sort of redemption or change on her part. Maybe the victim's relatives might feel better, and Shiho could take comfort in that, but it is a bit like how Shiho was planning to let herself die on the bus to protect others: a hollow plan which keep Shiho from doing a real measure of atonement in the form of dedicating her science skills and knowledge to stopping whatever is left of the Org and improving the lives of those the Org has hurt.
In a case like this where many people have died, the public - and thus the prosecutors - are going to pressure for maximum conviction. Having helped Conan would only be minimal defense; she should have gone to real officials and told all. She'll go to jail for years most likely, and in doing so will not be able to help people or do anything else which might be considered a service to the public. Maybe it would be fair for what she has done, but I doubt it would make Shiho a better person or give her a real sense of having done something to atone for her Org life.

I don't think staying as a child,erasing her real identity and ignoring the victims of her poison is the best choice for her...

I think the only part of this that matters here is the victims. She had minimal control how her poison was used and she still regrets it, but turning herself into the cops to be prosecuted isn't going to help those people, even after the fall of the Org and all is said and done. Developing an antidote to stop future poisonings might help, but there is no way that will ever be developed if she is being prosecuted or in jail.

I don't think Haibara really likes her Shiho side because of all the pressure, despair, and hopelessness that went on. Also, consider she has never once taken the temporary antidote, even a reduced one that might work for only a few hours while she stays at Agasa's in the basement for the duration. If Shiho eventually wished to eventually change back as well, she would also need the data from undergoing such temporary transformations herself so she would know the final antidote was safe for her too. Her antidote development is entirely focused on Shinichi which in my mind shows Shiho's lack of desire to return to her adult body.

[Citan]

I have to agree with Chekhov.

Returning to being Miyano Shiho will mean either a lifetime of being hunted by the remnants of the Organization, or a prison sentance for the crimes she helped them commit. Yes, she did turn against the Organization and has been working to correct her mistakes, but to a DA prosecuting on behalf of a legion of pissed off friends and family members of victims that would at best warrant a reduced sentance. (IE : Life Imprisonment instead of the Death Penalty).

Bear in mind that Haibara already declined the Witness Protection Program when the FBI offered it to her (Which suggests she's already decided to stop running from her problems) so unless she changes her mind (Which she won't and would be totally contrary to her character growth if she did) the only choices for Shiho's future are as Chekhov said : Jail-Time or running from whatever's left of the Organization.

Making the choice to stay Haibara doesn't nessicarily mean running away. She has a much better opportunity to change herself and atone for her sins if she stays Haibara. She can grow up (again) loved. She can start over completely free of the Organization and become a legitamate and respected scientist who is free to use her knowledge and skills to help people. I think that's a much better display of "Redemption" than turning back just to be thrown in jail and never having the chance to use her changed outlook to do any good.

So despite what AICHAN and Sherry86 have said to the contrary, it's very obvious that Miyano Shiho doesn't have any kind of hopeful future ahead of her. I do think we'll see her turn back temporarily to deal with Shiho's unfinished business (Like for the final battle with the BO) but I just can't see her turning back permanantly when she has such a happier and more productive life ahead of her as Haibara.

[AICHAN]

I still think this is not the right choice(for her and for her victims)...For me it's like she can't face her fate and she chooses the easiest solution...
You can't erase your past like that and live as if nothing happenned.I would love to see her tring to build a new life on her own,without being forced to lie and keep secrets to her friends...
I know Gosho will probably make her stay as Haibara,but I would be disappointed in that case.

[Aokochan]

But she couldn't begin a new life being Shiho, because as Checkov already said, she would end up in jail. However, if she stayed as Haibara, she could begin again and change her life, using her intelligence to help people instead of creating mortal drugs for the BO. Also, I don't know how could she help the victims by being Shiho. I think if there was some way of helping them(for example by creating an antidote) she could do it as well as Haibara. Also, I don't think Haibara is creating such a lie, she's just lying about her age and her past, but I think she is herself when she's with the DB, and she doesn't lie them about being their friend.
(PS: sorry for my bad English)

[Sherry86]

If tragic somehow means happier and better quality of life, sure Ai's life is more tragic

How can you so sure that she's happier as Ai? As Ai, she's been shot, almost killed by Pisco, trying to kill herself, almost killed by Vermouth, anxious because of strange neighbor, and many more. If she stayed as Ai, she wasn't start a new life. Her life will always tied with her past because she became Ai because of her 'evil creation'. She wouldn't forget that, right? If she become Shiho again, she can start a new life. She can forget her APTX. She can forget all bad things that happened to Ai. To me, all the bad things happened to her after her sister death, not before that.
If something good never happened to Shiho before she become Ai, I'm sure she have already killed herself long time ago.

Ai has Agasa, the detective boys, and Conan, and Ran who care about her dearly. Her support and friend network is much larger. Shiho had one such person, Akemi, who is dead.

Shiho will always have Agasa and Shinichi because they knew who she was since the beginning. Agasa wasn't the kind of person who will dumped someone just because of appearance. Or do you think he is that kind of person?
Her support mostly come from those two who knew her true identity, so what's the problem? Shiho has Shinichi and Agasa now, not Akemi.

She may be living a "lie", but she is certainly a lot happier now that she was ever in the Org. Maybe as Ai, she is living more like how she intended and desired to be than when she was in the Org being forced to do things she found unethical or distasteful. Which is the lie then? Also it is not like Conan will be going away and abandoning her. He will become Shinichi who certainly isn't going to ignore Haibara after all the time and effort spent together. Same with the DB and Agasa. It is clear Haibara likes the DB, although they are childlike.

No, she wasn't. She always act like adults and talk like adults. All of her behavior screams adult. Even Sonoko noticed this. She want to be free from the Org, but she doesn't have any desire to become a child. Liking children doesn't equal to want to become one of them. Adult like children because they will have one in the future. Haibara Ai was fake identity, so which is the lie then?

You don't have to have a lover to be happy or enjoy life, not does not having one decrease the quality of life.

You said that to the world where happiness means you have a lover? Nice one! Look at the heroin in that world! She's always crying because her lover wasn't by her side. Oh, and almost all of regular adult character in that world have lover. That world really full of love, don't you think so?

Citation Please. Where are you getting this from?

Episode 329-330. The culprit lied to her friends that she was from rich family, so she can be friends with them.

Staying small isn't running away. It is moving into a new life situation. The only thing left for Shiho after the Black Org falls are a bunch of angry left over Black Org members who would probably like to kill her, angry civilians whose friends and relatives were killed by her poison, and potential prosecution. Shiho has no family and no friends. To go back to Shiho would likely mean leaving Agasa and the DB for their protection. That would be true sorrow.

So you trying to say that Shinichi will be fine after he destroyed the Org, but Shiho won't? So the Org won't know that Shinichi was the one who destroyed them, but they know about Shiho? So they want to avenge Shiho, but they will leave Shinichi alone? Shiho and Shinichi's situation are equal if it's about the Org. So if it's dangerous for Shiho to come back, it's dangerous for Shinichi to come back. And again, Shiho has Agasa and Shinichi.
Believe me, if Conan can let a husband who tried to kill her wife go, he can save Shiho easily, so there'll be no angry civillian at all.

She can do science as Haibara too and with a lot less complication from the darkness of her past. All she has to do is wait a while. Shiho clearly has no desire for fame, even in the sciences, so I doubt that spending a quiet decade in a lab keeping her findings to herself will be painful. Heck she could use Agasa as a front for her science if she wished.

I just knew there're scientist who didn't want to get appreciation from his/her hardwork. Even Atsushi wanted his research known by other scientist and he clearly didn't do it for fame.
Maybe Shiho has no desire for fame, but she will have desire for appreciation, especially from other scientist because the one who can appreciate scientist better is other scientist.

My optimism is based on Ai's words to Conan in Episode 130-131, she can endure being child and everything because Conan was there with her. So, for Ai, no Conan, no Ai. You really don't know how much Conan's existence worth for Ai's existence.

By the way, have you ever consider that she didn't take the antidote because the transformation was painful? She has experienced it once, so I think she wasn't as crazy as Shinichi to take the antidote several times just for stupid reasons. If all of her body aching like hell, she won't get anything for her research except hurting herself.

[Kor]

My optimism is based on Ai's words to Conan in Episode 130-131, she can endure being child and everything because Conan was there with her. So, for Ai, no Conan, no Ai. You really don't know how much Conan's existence worth for Ai's existence.

Current Ai is not Ai of 130-131. There's such a thing called character development.

By the way, have you ever consider that she didn't take the antidote because the transformation was painful? She has experienced it once, so I think she wasn't as crazy as Shinichi to take the antidote several times just for stupid reasons. If all of her body aching like hell, she won't get anything for her research except hurting herself.

That's just morally wrong and it'd make Ai seem like a terrible person.

[Sherry86]

Current Ai is not Ai of 130-131. There's such a thing called character development.

Tell me that after Ai said with her own mouth that she want to stay as a kid.

That's just morally wrong and it'd make Ai seem like a terrible person.

It's not. Conan took the antidote because of his own wish. So if Ai didn't take it, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Citan]

You're mistaken Sherry86. It's not because the transformation is painful. Haibara simply has no "life" to get back to the way Shinichi does. Think about it. Shinichi is a famous detective, well loved by everyone. He has a social life and a girlfriend he desperately wants to return to. Shiho is a BO Scientist. Everyone she knows either is dead, wants to kill her, or outside of Shinichi and Agasa knows her only as Haibara. What possible incentive is there for her to take her antidote? To wave a red flag at the BO screaming "HERE I AM! COME AND KILL ME!"?

Haibara is a practical person. She's not risking getting herself and everyone else killed by the BO to go joyriding in her adult body for a few hours for no real reason. The ONLY reason she'll EVER take the antidote is if the situation demands it of her. So far it hasn't. She might choose to return to normal when it's time to face the BO, but she's not going to take the temporary pill just to go to Tropical Land as Shiho or some crap. She can do that just fine as Haibara and do it with everyone she knows and cares about.

[AICHAN]

You're mistaken Sherry86. It's not because the transformation is painful. Haibara simply has no "life" to get back to the way Shinichi does. Think about it. Shinichi is a famous detective, well loved by everyone. He has a social life and a girlfriend he desperately wants to return to. Shiho is a BO Scientist. Everyone she knows either is dead, wants to kill her, or outside of Shinichi and Agasa knows her only as Haibara. What possible incentive is there for her to take her antidote? To wave a red flag at the BO screaming "HERE I AM! COME AND KILL ME!"?

Haibara is a practical person. She's not risking getting herself and everyone else killed by the BO to go joyriding in her adult body for a few hours for no real reason. The ONLY reason she'll EVER take the antidote is if the situation demands it of her. So far it hasn't. She might choose to return to normal when it's time to face the BO, but she's not going to take the temporary pill just to go to Tropical Land as Shiho or some crap. She can do that just fine as Haibara and do it with everyone she knows and cares about.

Well, Haibara never took a pill because she never felt the need to temporarily being Shiho...That doesn't mean she wont take the antidote in the future.
Conan also doesn't take the antidote to enjoy his adult life,he took them to protect his identity...

As Sherry86 said,in the end if Shinichi defeats the BO,he could be the target of the remnant of BO as well (not to mention that Shinichi is famous,so it would be easy to recognize him and kill him)
So if Shinichi is not in danger in the end,Shiho as well...They would be in the same situation...

As for the fact that Shiho's relatives are dead...yes they are,so what?she isn't the only orphan in the world...it's not impossible to live happily after these sad events,she can have new friends,she can use all the things she learnt as Haibara Ai and build a new life with her real identity,in the memory of her family...And Agasa and Shinichi will still be around,even if she's in an adult form...
Also I think that if she helps the FBI to take down the BO,they would surely do something to help her in the end,so that she won't go to jail(she can work for the FBI or something like that)...it's DC world so I guess it's not impossible XDDD

[ranger]

Ran who care about her dearly

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