Shinichi+Ran

[Wakarimashita]

Stop looking at DC's pairings with western standards. DC is written by a 50 year old man who grew up in a very patriarchal and conservative japanese society (one of my dad's friends is married to a japanese and she told me that it is for example not well seen when a woman appears smarter than her husband, therefore in certain circumstances, 'women should be seen and not heard'). If DC is mostly popular among middle aged women, it's also because Ran sort of represents the traditional japanese woman in a society which some people (mostly the elder) are seeing as decaying because of the progressive loss of certain moral values. It's not a coincidence if Sazae-san, a show who's heroine is, once again, a traditional japanese housewife, is the most watched anime in Japan.

[Kor]

Okay, so Kor-sama has read the recent posts and now he shall deliver his judgement



1) Dwalin (no, don't be alarmed that you're the first one I'm referring, it's just for the sake of the order I'm following) - You are being overly sensitive about other people's opinions again. That said, Divinely Ethereal's first post in the discussion wasn't all that great either. So knowing you, I know you didn't have any bad intentions, just let's be more polite the next time, even if another member's opinion might seem extremely outrageous to you. So this leads us to #2.

2) Divinely Ethereal - First of all let me point out that the movies and OVAs aren't canon so any arguments that you take from them aren't going to be taken too seriously, usually you should go to the manga (and the manga based episodes of the anime) in order to present proof for your arguments (not saying that you can't by any means try to argue through the movies or OVAs but as far as we know, that stuff isn't canon). On that subject, "Gosho and Co", I'm unsure to who you're referring by "co"; in case you're referring to the anime studio, they aren't working for Gosho. Next, you won't find too much "feminist" concepts in DC, or generally in anime; You don't need to look hard if you want to nitpick on sexist ideas in anime, just look at every harem, or even in Sailor Moon; by searching for sexism you're basically ruining your experience of the show; and Japan's culture in general doesn't lean towards western feminism. All that said, even if you're extremely passionate about something in the series, there are better and more polite ways to speak your mind. As for calling Dwalin an idiot - yes, I'm aware that he said that you "sound pathetic", I personally believe what he said was uncalled for; however, you calling him an idiot was also uncalled for and it just made you look immature.

3) IHKF is being IHKF. I'm not going to waste my time on explaining how and why your attitude and posts are simply wrong, many of the people here (including myself) have already tried, but you still don't seem to understand why your attitude, as well as your disgusting generalizations, just come off as offensive.

4) Thanks to all of the other posters who tried to keep the sanity.

If you have any thoughts or something you'd like to tell me regarding this post, I'd appreciate if you talk to me via PM and not post it here.

[Divinely Ethereal]

Kor, I don't normally tend to nitpick and over-analyze media looking for feminist slights. It's just that I was very surprised -and concerned-  that many (most?) foreign DC fans readily lap up the crap that Ran is "strong" and that ShinRan is "romantic", when they ought to know better. I normally don't even watch romance genre/pairing centred shows, so when something as bad as the more recent ShinRan stuff jumps me when I'm trying to enjoy a good dose of mystery/suspense... well, I get mad 

And okay, I confess to having been persuaded into watching  some ''girly girly" stuff like Ouran High School Host Club, but even those pairings were better than in DC -.-

And Japan must be running out of "Ran"'s; since their birthrates have been shown to be declining. Not many nice, house-wifey chicks left to work the kitchen and pop out the brats. No wonder "Ran" has become a valued commodity. DC is actually *gasp!* propaganda to get the little girls to take up Home Ec and bag themselves rich, successful husbands, and not be like lawyer Mummy who married a scruffy, alcoholic, gambling officer/detective 

And that last paragraph was irony, just in case  Dwalin or some other ShinRan believer in eternal childhood love at first sight feel like sharpening their proverbial pitchforks against me

[sonoci]

@Divinely Ethereal:

All that said, even if you're extremely passionate about something in the series, there are better and more polite ways to speak your mind.

You really do have many good points, it's just this that's missing.

[Kor]

RM'd by Sonoci

[Dwalin]

@Divinely Ethereal:

All that said, even if you're extremely passionate about something in the series, there are better and more polite ways to speak your mind.

You really do have many good points, it's just this that's missing.

That's what I think too. You may disagree as much as you want, it's just that there is no need to call ShinRan "crap" and "pathetic". I might think the same about most of the modern society, like the elder people Wakarimashita mentioned, but I keep it to myself to avoid offending many people.

[sonoci]

@Divinely Ethereal:

All that said, even if you're extremely passionate about something in the series, there are better and more polite ways to speak your mind.

You really do have many good points, it's just this that's missing.

That's what I think too. You may disagree as much as you want, it's just that there is no need to call ShinRan "crap" and "pathetic". I might think the same about most of the modern society, like the elder people Wakarimashita mentioned, but I keep it to myself to avoid offending many people.

If you really think the same way, I must say I'd love to have a discussion sometime with you ^^ I enjoy being able to discuss things on a strictly "Agree to disagree" level where we both learn something we didn't before \o/

For instance, why does ShinRan always remain as a favorite couple for you? I personally used to love it, but then I suppose my interest faltered  I'd love to hear what it was that kept you going with the pairing, even if I don't agree maybe it'll help me understand 

[Dwalin]

If you really think the same way, I must say I'd love to have a discussion sometime with you ^^ I enjoy being able to discuss things on a strictly "Agree to disagree" level where we both learn something we didn't before \o/

For instance, why does ShinRan always remain as a favorite couple for you? I personally used to love it, but then I suppose my interest faltered  :-\ I'd love to hear what it was that kept you going with the pairing, even if I don't agree maybe it'll help me understand  :D

The fact that I like ShinRan isn’t really a result of some profound analysis. I just happen to like ideals like childhood friend love which lasts for life (at least Gosho seems to imply it should last), even though it almost doesn't exist in real life. Love stories between people who met as adults just seem more rough to me. There is often too much cheating, divorces etc. and, what bothers me the most, simple sexual attraction is often mistaken for love, while in cases of childhood friends the relationship is formed in a period of time when people are more innocent, therefore in this case there is a guarantee it’s not just sex. I am by no means saying love stories between people who met as adults are all bad, it’s just I find childhood friends more sublime and romantic.
Also, I like Ran’s character because she is faithful and moral and can be trusted. Somebody considers her a “flatâ€

[sonoci]

Ah, I see. So it's not so much "I have this reason" but "I just like it ^^". You know, perhaps just liking something is even better than having reasons, and I find a profound respect in that 

I agree with you that cheating and divorces and such are a little rough, and that it is unfortunate that sexual attraction is so often mistaken for "love" (or worse, 'excused' as love D: ). I guess on my side of the spectrum I like any pairing that has a nice chemistry  In other words, I actually still technically like ShinRan, it's just not as interesting for me I suppose. Though not interesting doesn't mean I can't like it, right? Not to mention, there are still moments that pop up that get me involved too. \o/

And I totally get you when you say that not all adult stories are bad. In fact, some are awesome 

[quote="Dwalin"]
Also, I like Ran’s character because she is faithful and moral and can be trusted. Somebody considers her a “flatâ€

[Dwalin]

I prefer Shinichi + Ran not just because they are childhood friends, but because the other candidates (Haibara and Ayumi) just seem to me somewhat wrong for him. Ayumi is a child, I think it would be unnatural for Conan to get together with her and as for Haibara, even though I don’t hate her and respect people who like her, I still think she isn’t a person who can be trusted completely. I would be always worried for Conan if he got together with her.
But the main reason for me is of course the fact that, childhood friends or not, Ran is still the first love, and I am really tired of numerous modern stories that follow the pattern “if there is an already formed couple at the beginning, it will always be destroyed during the course of the narrationâ€

[sonoci]

It's interesting you say you like it when an original couple stays together because I'm actually writing something where (although with slightly more minor characters) that will happen xD It's like some weird coincidence o3o

For "Gosho's original intention" quite so, quite so. Personally, from a strictly story standpoint (not counting cases because there are quite a lot of awesome ones that are filler) DC probably would've been a bit more fulfilling if it were shorter. There could still be Shinichi's "Wait for me" bit, but then it wouldn't include the audience as much in that wait and would be even sweeter xD

I guess the sad thing is that Gosho didn't really seem to make an effort to try and make more ways that they could've had little interactions. I get that the phonecalls would get boring to see over and over again, but even little things where Ran is carrying Conan and he's blushing are cute. There was also an episode I recall (though it was a filler, but it's not some sort of fact so xD) where Ran said she wanted to buy a tie for Shinichi and Conan then imagined her holding up a tie to his neck (while he was Shinichi of course). Then he blushed madly when she held up a tie jokingly up to him (as Conan) That was adorable and yet not major at all. Those are the types of things I'm missing 

[doublemoonlight]

OK I HAVE to say this. If you DON'T like Ran or Shinichi or ShinRan... WHAT THE SLAGGING PRIMUS  are you doing in ShinRan thread. Go and create anti-ShinRan thread or something and BASH ShinRan or Ran or Shinichi there! This Thread is CLEARLY FOR THOSE WHO LOVE SHINRAN! DO NOT WAST YOUR TIME OR OTHER PEOPLE'S  TIME BY TRYING TO BASH THIS PARING!!!! 

[Vylash]

Go and create anti-ShinRan thread or something and BASH ShinRan or Ran or Shinichi there!

Disclaimer: Don't actually do this 

[sonoci]

@doublemoonlight: While bashing is always a no-no, nonShinRans aren't necessarily banned from this thread. The title of the thread is "Shinichi+Ran" not "We love Shinichi+Ran". In other words, anything relating to Shinichi+Ran can come up, whether it be for or against.

What's important is remaining civilized. There could be some people who want to rediscover ShinRan who come here and ask those who like it to explain it to them. If those people are met with a comment like the one you just posted, they would likely get a very bad impression of the pairing community which would be bad in and of itself.  The ShinRan community, as far as my view of it is concerned, is not a violent beatdown one. It's welcoming of outside opinions, so long as those opinions are polite.

So let's keep up our politeness 

Also

Go and create anti-ShinRan thread or something and BASH ShinRan or Ran or Shinichi there!

Disclaimer: Don't actually do this 

[Kor]

Was gonna write a post but Sonoci's was better.