Shinichi+Ran

[IHKF]

...Um, alrighty. Just gonna say here loud and clear: there may be parts in this post that would have a "mad" tone to them, but I'm not. I'm just really baffled by something that you said and it's twisting my mind in all sorts of angles. You can feel free to ignore it, but I would appreciate one read  ;) As usual, no ill will meant

^
If you'll remember the way he acts when ANYBODY is in danger then you will get proof that worrying about her safety is not special to her. XD He doesn't act any differently when she's in danger than he does with Heiji or the DB or a random stranger involved in a case- a lot of the time the CULPRIT.

Um, actually, no. When Heiji or the DB are in danger, he calms down a bit quicker and thinks things through logically. When Ran's in danger, he'll yell at the rescue team because he needs them to hurry, even though he's been in many scenarios before and he knows a calm mind is best.

Also...this is kind of a weak point. Just because Shinichi is the type that likes people to be safe, that means he can't love someone? Sorry, but that's kind of hard to believe  :-\

He has shown that he cares about her feelings and LIKES her, not love. There isn't one thing he has done that tells me he's in love. I'll say it again. In order to convince me he has to use the proper term, not daisuke (sp?), aishiteru (sp?). He would have to give his life to save her and not come back, he would take somebody's life to save her, or he kills himself to die with her like in Romeo and Juliet.

That's...pretty disproportionate. So, Ran loves Shinichi and cares for him. She gets to live and be labelled that way. But for Shinichi to love Ran, he has to die in some fashion?

...And I think the last part is where the problem lies. ...Did you really use Romeo and Juliet as an example? Have you heard how many times that that's been chewed out on?  :-\ I don't want to be the one to break it to you, but Romeo and Juliet is a satire/parody meant specifically to mock how teenagers who are "in love" makes stupid decisions that can hurt not only them but their families and friends. I guess Gosho could be some secret genius who's parodying the parody that is R & J, but I'd like to think he's trying to go for a healthy relationship here. It's one thing for Shinichi to sacrifice himself to save Ran, it's another to kill someone else or to commit suicide. I'm sorry but...have you missed all those speeches where Shinichi has said "Suicide is wrong", "There's no reason to take a life", "I can't understand why anyone would take a life" etc etc? Because...this baffles me. It truly does.

You can love someone but let them go. There's even a trope for that: I Want My Beloved to be Happy. When you love someone...you love them. That's just the gist of it. You don't need them, you don't want them, you just care for their well-being and almost always enjoy their company. You can love friends. You can love family. Does that mean you don't move out of the house when you come of age? Does that mean when your grandma dies you need to go jump off a cliff?

No.

I'd say reread Romeo and Juliet and pay really close attention. How long was their romance anyway?

...A week. ...One solitary week and they decided that, even against the weeks upon weeks they'd been living fine up until then, that suddenly they couldn't live with the other. Romeo was even fawning over another girl earlier in the day he met Juliet! He was talking about Rosalie (I believe, can't quite remember) in the same fashion he speaks of Juliet. The only difference is that with Juliet he dies before he can realize that maybe he would've found another girl just like he did with Rosalie. An idiotic teenage decision "in the name of love"...that somehow became the "Greatest Romance of All Time" OTL

1. Alright, then give me a scene where he's worried about Ran to compare to something like episode 140 or 289. He treats everybody the same way when they are in danger. Unless, of course, you have the proof in an episode or chapter to back that statement up. XD

And no, it just means that saying that he worries more about her than others when he goes to save her would be an inaccurate point.

2. Okay, i'm sorry, let me add "He has to wait for her for just as long as she's been waiting for him" to that equation. XD And I think that would clear that up.

I've never read or heard anything like that, and it's not a comedy play. It is a romantic tragedy written and it has a couple of sexual puns in it here and there. Can you please point me to where Shakespeare has been quoted to say that it was a parody or the like? Because if he didn't say it himself then that is pretty much just an opinion. :-/
IN ORDER TO SAVE HER. XD If you truly love somebody then you are willing to go against everything in order to protect them unless THEY are in the wrong. If Ran was kidnapped and killing the criminal was somehow the only way to save her (which would mean going against everything that he stands for as a detective) I think that that would be a pretty strong sign that he's in love. sorry if I didn't clarify that, him going against everything he was saying before is WHY it would be such a huge way to say "I love her."

Yes, you can let them go but it's natural for the heart to linger on if you're in love with them even though they think you're okay with letting them go. If you're not interfering with their life because you still have lingering feelings for them they can still be happy. Yes, you need them. Because they are your "missing piece to your puzzle". You can't finish a puzzle with a piece missing. Not NEEDING them as in relying on them, but when you love them they are very dear to you and you need them by your side because they are your other half. You don't have to want them, you could just hate the idea of love and hate that you feel that way about them. Caring for their well-being and enjoying their company are signs that you are in love. They are not things that determine if you are in love, though. You can care for your best friend's well being and enjoy their company without being in love. Your cat's company. Your teacher's company. But you don't NEED them because they are people that haven't affected you in that way, they are people you can just let go of without much effort even though it will hurt. You are taking what I said way too seriously, you don't need to die because you love them and absolutely can't let them go, but you will not find it easy by ANY means AT ALL to let go of them. For a while you ARE going to dread not being able to have them and it will pass eventually but you know you're in love when your boyfriend broke up with you months ago and you still have feelings for him although they may be slowly dwindling.

I'd say you read up on Shakespeare himself and what the play was to HIM, unless of course you can find a quote from HIM saying that it was making fun of teenagers.

Romeo and Juliet is a love story, not a comedy. I'd like to know exactly who told you or who told somebody else it was a parody. XD

Romeo and Juliet is both the most overused and worst example of true love in the entire universe, outside of Edward and Bella, which was partially based off of them in the first place. Better examples:
Beatrice and Benedict
Hermia and Lysander
Han and Leia
Westley and Buttercup
Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin
Beauty and the Beast
Small creatures that live under rocks mating

...are all better examples of true love than Romeo and Juliet.

Did Stephanie Meyer SAY it was based off of them? XD I'm pretty sure that was just her dreaming off into her own fantasy world because she's missing a particular SOMETHING in her life. XD (In other words: Her husband is NOT Doing his job! XD)

And I was comparing the Shinichi sacrificing his life to R&J, not their relationship in general.

That was just a list of things showing what I would consider to be true acts of love. 

[mangaluva]

Love is very subjective. Biologically it can be defined as an emotional dependency that can heavily affect brain and bodily chemistry, but that's awfully crude XD

I guess what's most important is to find someone who aligns well with you, whose definition of love fits yours. It's completely wrong to say that a couple don't have "true love" because they're not exactly like another couple- as with all emotional issues, it's highly subjective, as is really as badly misused a term as "true fan".

Shinichi and Ran care a lot for each other, have many similar ideals, and have a lot to offer each other. They haven't really had a chance to develop their feelings into love yet, but IMO, there's definitely a strong attachment.

@IHKF: There are no quotes from Shakespeare. The guy was not famous in his day. However, given the context that it was written in and the tone and nature of the play, along with Romeo and Juliet's ages and behaviour, it's pretty blatant to anyone who's read the play that the couple are not being held up as an ideal of love. Ideal couples only ever existed in his comedies; the tragedies (and Romeo and Juliet was only ever referred to in the playtext as "the most excellent and lamentable tragedie", never a romance) all featured people who were heavily flawed and suffered greatly. Good grief, just look at Hamlet.

I believe SMeyer has mentioned basing Edward and Bella on Romeo and Juliet in an interview before. I don't exactly follow her closely, so I couldn't give you links, but in the text Bella does refer to Romeo and Juliet erroneously as a paragon of love.

[Kor]

1. Alright, then give me a scene where he's worried about Ran to compare to something like episode 140 or 289. He treats everybody the same way when they are in danger. Unless, of course, you have the proof in an episode or chapter to back that statement up. XD

And no, it just means that saying that he worries more about her than others when he goes to save her would be an inaccurate point.

Sonoci was referring to the Paper Planes Case.

[IHKF]

Love is very subjective. Biologically it can be defined as an emotional dependency that can heavily affect brain and bodily chemistry, but that's awfully crude XD

I guess what's most important is to find someone who aligns well with you, whose definition of love fits yours. It's completely wrong to say that a couple don't have "true love" because they're not exactly like another couple- as with all emotional issues, it's highly subjective, as is really as badly misused a term as "true fan".

Shinichi and Ran care a lot for each other, have many similar ideals, and have a lot to offer each other. They haven't really had a chance to develop their feelings into love yet, but IMO, there's definitely a strong attachment.

@IHKF: There are no quotes from Shakespeare. The guy was not famous in his day. However, given the context that it was written in and the tone and nature of the play, along with Romeo and Juliet's ages and behaviour, it's pretty blatant to anyone who's read the play that the couple are not being held up as an ideal of love. Ideal couples only ever existed in his comedies; the tragedies (and Romeo and Juliet was only ever referred to in the playtext as "the most excellent and lamentable tragedie", never a romance) all featured people who were heavily flawed and suffered greatly. Good grief, just look at Hamlet.

I believe SMeyer has mentioned basing Edward and Bella on Romeo and Juliet in an interview before. I don't exactly follow her closely, so I couldn't give you links, but in the text Bella does refer to Romeo and Juliet erroneously as a paragon of love.

Yes definitions of love change from one person to the next and not all love is the same, but there are just some things that if you don't do as a partner it means your feelings for them may not be as deep as you think they are. If he really loved Ran then, as I said in the following posts, he would do anything to keep her with him because he doesn't want to loose her. If that meant killing somebody to protect her and there was no other way (when she didn't do anything wrong, like if this person was a member of the BO) he would shoot and not care about all that he's said.

As for what you said about Romeo and Juliet, if there aren't any quotes then we CANNOT SAY that it was a parody. By opinion it may have been, but in reality it was not. Nobody has any place to speak for Shakespeare, and you guys can think it's a parody all you want but unless it was quoted by the author himself then it was not a parody. XD

And good grief... another reason not to read her books. Comparing something like THAT to a classic... that woman sickens me to be honest... =_=

1. Alright, then give me a scene where he's worried about Ran to compare to something like episode 140 or 289. He treats everybody the same way when they are in danger. Unless, of course, you have the proof in an episode or chapter to back that statement up. XD

And no, it just means that saying that he worries more about her than others when he goes to save her would be an inaccurate point.

Sonoci was referring to the Paper Planes Case.

And which episode was that? *Doesn't clearly remember all of it*

[Kor]

And which episode was that?

I have enough faith in you that you can look that up on your own.

As for what you said about Romeo and Juliet, if there aren't any quotes then we CANNOT SAY that it was a parody. By opinion it may have been, but in reality it was not. Nobody has any place to speak for Shakespeare, and you guys can think it's a parody all you want but unless it was quoted by the author himself then it was not a parody. XD

You don't know much about literature, I see...

[IHKF]

And which episode was that?

As for what you said about Romeo and Juliet, if there aren't any quotes then we CANNOT SAY that it was a parody. By opinion it may have been, but in reality it was not. Nobody has any place to speak for Shakespeare, and you guys can think it's a parody all you want but unless it was quoted by the author himself then it was not a parody. XD

You don't know much about literature, I see...

I know enough to know that facts are facts and opinions are opinions. As I said before, you people can think that all you want but that doesn't make R&J and comedy. It was not titled as such and the only humor I could possibly see coming from it besides the irony and the sexual jokes is the fact that it was preformed by all men and boys (just as every play of its time..).

[mangaluva]

You really didn't know that Romeo and Juliet was based almost entirely on the tragedy of Pyramus and Thisbe? Two lovers who kill themselves due to a stupid misunderstanding? Like most of his works, Shakespeare was taking an older tale and reworking it into a box-office hit. It wasn't necessarily a parody, but, notably, was never labeled a romance, unlike P&T. It has only ever been referred to as a tragedy, and even the characters inside of the play ridicule R&J for their stupid obsession with the other. Mercutio, Benvolio and the Friar all get on Romeo's case for switching so fast from Rosaline to Juliet ("Truly, young men's love lies not in their heart but in their eyes!") and the Friar only agrees to marry them in the hope that it will end the war between the Capulets and Montagues. As for Juliet, she is taken to task by her nurse and, again, the Friar, for her behaviour.

As no Shakespeare quotes exist, demanding quotes as proof is equally ridiculous. The man's political and religious opinions, like any playwright, were expressed through his plays, and identifying the author filibuster character (there's generally one, most frequently a Fool of some sort) is the closest you can get to a direct quote. Meaning must be inferred from detailed study of the plays and the socio-political climate of the time they were published.

(In short, at least read a play before trying to argue about its meaning with a Drama student XD)

In short, though, the point is that Romeo and Juliet are a terrible example of true love. Shinichi's willing to go through a lot to say by Ran's side, no matter what; the fact that her pain and loneliness hit him as if they were his own indicate a great emotional connection, and that he's willing to stay in the path of that pain simply to be by her side and comfort her in any small way that he can is an act of great caring. You don't have to take a bullet for someone to prove that you love them. If at all possible, it's preferable not to die for someone; then all you're doing is leaving them alone and in pain.

[IHKF]

You really didn't know that Romeo and Juliet was based almost entirely on the tragedy of Pyramus and Thisbe? Two lovers who kill themselves due to a stupid misunderstanding? Like most of his works, Shakespeare was taking an older tale and reworking it into a box-office hit. It wasn't necessarily a parody, but, notably, was never labeled a romance, unlike P&T. It has only ever been referred to as a tragedy, and even the characters inside of the play ridicule R&J for their stupid obsession with the other. Mercutio, Benvolio and the Friar all get on Romeo's case for switching so fast from Rosaline to Juliet ("Truly, young men's love lies not in their heart but in their eyes!") and the Friar only agrees to marry them in the hope that it will end the war between the Capulets and Montagues. As for Juliet, she is taken to task by her nurse and, again, the Friar, for her behaviour.

As no Shakespeare quotes exist, demanding quotes as proof is equally ridiculous. The man's political and religious opinions, like any playwright, were expressed through his plays, and identifying the author filibuster character (there's generally one, most frequently a Fool of some sort) is the closest you can get to a direct quote. Meaning must be inferred from detailed study of the plays and the socio-political climate of the time they were published.

(In short, at least read a play before trying to argue about its meaning with a Drama student XD)

In short, though, the point is that Romeo and Juliet are a terrible example of true love. Shinichi's willing to go through a lot to say by Ran's side, no matter what; the fact that her pain and loneliness hit him as if they were his own indicate a great emotional connection, and that he's willing to stay in the path of that pain simply to be by her side and comfort her in any small way that he can is an act of great caring. You don't have to take a bullet for someone to prove that you love them. If at all possible, it's preferable not to die for someone; then all you're doing is leaving them alone and in pain.

Perhaps you all are using the wrong terminology. R&J may be based off of something else, but i'm pretty sure that it wasn't a PARODY.

Demanding quotes isn't ridiculous. So... POLITICS is brought into this now I see... alright then... XD
I see I can't convince any of you that fact is fact an opinion is opinion so I will take my leave...

Fare thee well, fellow members. XD

[mangaluva]

...Did you actually read anything I just wrote?

Specifically this bit?

It wasn't necessarily a parody...

Also, I'm sorry, but yes, demanding quotes from a man who has been dead for nearly four hundred years and left no direct quotes is ridiculous. His plays are his only quotations; if the utter ridicule Pyramus and Thisbe was subjected to in A Midsummer Night's Dream won't convince you on his opinion of "tragic lovers" such as Romeo and Juliet, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Back to the topic... I kinda wish Shinichi would just tell Ran already. Gin already suspects Kogoro, so Ran's already in some danger, and she kicks so much ass she could only be an asset to Shinichi. Yes, it would upset her, but so does thinking Shinichi's running around in danger on his own. She's not weak. She'd be happier knowing where he is and that she can protect him.

[sonoci]

Ah, well, now there's nothing really left to be said xD Though I worked hard on what I wrote, so:

Spoiler: Partial response to IHKF

I think you might have misunderstood my post. Though I don't have smilies littering it, I was in no means being overly serious or mad or anything.

My mood while writing that (and this as well) was pretty much between "Whaaa-? xD" and "Whaaa-?  "

Anyway

Worrying about Ran: There isn't a scene needed, actually, now that I think about it. What can be "cited" is the fact that he goes so far out of his way to keep his secret from her. Did he really hide it from Hattori? Does he seem to care that Agasa and his parents know? The one he worries about is Ran. He actually gets help from Hattori, help that could endanger Hattori - and he knows that. He keeps Ran out of it because he knows that she would want to help, and that would put her in danger.

Nope, it's still a weak point. I mean on the whole that the whole protecting people bit is a pointless debate. It's a subjective matter - especially when it's someone like Shinichi who likes everybody to be safe. The weak stance comes from the fact that with this trait someone could argue that Shinichi is in love with anyone, just because he protected them. There's simply no way to judge anything on his protective nature. Most people think that in regards to this topic that if there was ever a choice Shinichi had to make between saving Person A (and by this I mean ANYONE - Hattori, one of the DB) or Ran, that he would likely choose Ran first.

Did I ever say it was a comedy? I said it was a parody/satire. A parody, by definition, "a humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing". In other words, it mocks something...mocking doesn't always equal comedy. Shakespeare was around a long time ago, my friend, no one would've written it down that he went "Yeah, that was a satire". There's also a subtle nature to satires: they're not exactly straightforward.

Again: we haven't defined love. Saying "truly love someone" is a matter of opinion, as is how one should act when "truly in love". This is one instance where Shinichi's "one truth" doesn't exist: if it did, a clear definition for love would've been in the dictionary a loooooong time ago.

Also, for the "saving Ran by killing a criminal" thing, I don't think that would really be the case. Ran herself has a high value for human life, shown by her saving Vermouth/the Serial killer in New York. If Shinichi killed someone, even if it were for her sake, I don't think she'd hug him. I think she'd slap him/yell "What were you thinking". Going against everything for the person you love is one thing, but going against your personal morals that you've held for years is COMPLETELY different. To start, the action of, essentially, going OOC would make you someone else, someone who the other did not fall in love with. I don't believe anyone in love would want the one they love so much to change for their sake. That would actually be kind of horrible. "You should change" is something that should never be on a lovers mind, IMO 

Spoiler: Quick Summary of R&J for Purposes of Showing that it is in fact a parody/SATIRE

Essentially, in very short terms, Romeo and Juliet is like this

Juliet: Oh bother, I don't have a boyfriend. ;_;
Nurse: You will soon!
Juliet: Oh bother. ;_;
Romeo: Oh bother, I don't have a girlfriend. ;_; My old one dumped me. ;_; I MISS HER. </3 I CAN'T GO ON WITHOUT HER. </3 IT'S LIKE TRYING TO LIVE WITHOUT BREATH-
Benvolio/Mercutio: Let's go to a party and get you a girlfriend!
Romeo: BUT I CAN'T </3 SHE CAN NEVER BE REPLACED
Benvolio/Mercutio: Wasn't she the one to dump you?
Romeo: OH, YOU'RE RIGHT, SHE'S A HEARTLESS B****. I HATE HER NOW
Benvolio/Mercutio: To our enemies PARTEH : D
*at the PARTEH*
Romeo: Doode doo
Juliet: Humdee dum
Romeo/Juliet: GASP *thinking* That girl/boy over there! I YEARN FOR HER/HIM AT THE VERY SIGHT OF HER/HIM <3 LOVE IS NEIGH, OHOHO
*later*
Romeo: Hey there, you're pretty hot
Juliet: But I'm a Capulet
Romeo: A name's just a name, you're still hot
Juliet: Well same to you, fair Montague
Romeo: Hey, let's get married later
Juliet: kk : D
*later*
Friar: You know, I feel this is a bad idea, but if can get your families to stop bickering it's worth it
Romeo: I vow to love you more than I do now, and stuff you full of your favorite food: pasta!
Juliet: Actually, I'm deathly allergic to pasta.
Romeo: Oh, sorry. You know how it is: only known you for about a week.
Juliet: True my love <3 ...And I vow to love you even more for the rest of my life! These first few days have been marvelous. What could possibly go wrong? : D
*later*
Someone: ROMEO, YOU ARE BANISHED
Romeo: D:
*later*
Juliet: I cannot go on without my love, Mario!
Nurse: ...Actually, it's Romeo
Juliet: Oh whoops. You know: Italian name, only known for a week. All that.
Nurse: I'm leaving you now
Juliet: I shall drink this vial to make it look as if I've died so my fair M-uh, Romeo can meet me in the morgue! Of course he'll know I'm faking because of the ever so reliable postage service that couldn't possibly fail to deliver such an important letter *"dies"*
*later*
Romeo: JULIET, I'LL JOIN YOU IN DEATH *kills himself*
Juliet: Yay! I'm not actually-MARIO. NO. I'LL JOIN YOU IN DEATH *kills herself*
*family comes down*
Father: ...Geez, Romeo, couldn't wait ONE MINUTE. Couldn't consider that there was someone else out there. ...Couldn't realize YOU'D KNOWN THE GIRL FOR A WEEK. ...Heck, why wasn't he more distraught when Mercutio died? He knew him WAY longer!
Mother: ...Because you don't kill yourself over someone else's death?
Father: Ah right...unless you're a lustful teenager -_-
Mother: Look on the bright side: they're already in the morgue! : D
Father: Can't argue with that! : D

DADADADAAAAAAAA

*Shakespeare rolls in his grave*

*cough* Anyway

As many have said, Ran is strong. ...Definitely not weak, just a worried person

[mangaluva]

Best summary of Romeo and Juliet I have ever read.

That is all.

[doublemoonlight]

And which episode was that? *Doesn't clearly remember all of it*

it was Okiya VS Shinnich case, it was pretty recent case ( which might mean nothing since I consider all post-okiya case as recent ones...) Look up in DC wiki

[Fixed quote]

[sargam]

hi guyz......
first of all happy new year!!!!  I M BACK.......
Don't think i forgot..... it's just that--- i was busy with other things......
PLUS i don't understand one thing ---why are we always arguing about who loves who????
haven't we discussed it many times already..... I M BORED BY THE SAME DAMN TOPIC......

Lets add some fun..... actually i came to dedicate songs to RAN & AI ( showing love for my beloved Shinichi......)

Plus I wanted your opinion on some other things------ i started reading study in scarlet yesterday..... i know i m dumb...i hadn't read them till now.... except a few short stories here n there....
and it got me thinking....... what does ran feel about shinichi when he starts worshipping holmes.......???
Sorry i know mr. holmes is smart & all but if I try to get into ran’s shoes..... i found Shinichi a far more fascinating person than him..... kudo-kun u should be glad… you score higher than your ideal in your beloved’s eyes….
this feeling revived my love for him & I could finally understand the importance of ran’s simple confession in the very first episode….. kudo-kun is truly a gem of a person… you know I’m not the kind who likes mary-sue type of characters…. & on the other hand I rather dispise tainted souls… those who get swept away by the BAD & lose their GOOD… But Kudo’s character strikes such a balance… it’s marvellous…. I can’t express this as accurately as Gosho- girls have… But me being, majorly  a critic type of person--- it’s big thing for me when I say--- I doubt there would ever be a time when I may resent kudo-kun’s actions irrespective of how disastrous or fruitful they may turn out to be….. there is this constant of his evolving personality that I’ve fallen in love with….. n plz don’t misunderstand I haven’t yet turned into such a retard who would actually fall for an anime boy…cough cough…..  
kyaaaaaaaaaaa….. +1 if u think kudo’s more interesting than holmes…
ahem now romance time gurlzzz….. I always talk bout Shinran but 2de I’ll say bout Ai coz I think she is indispensable part of this love story.
First imagine you are RAN as you listen to this below…..love you angel…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERw2LuU6Jj8&feature=player_embedded#
AND….This one below--is for Ai-type of love….. You know what…. No offence anyone….it’s just my opinion….. but I feel Ai hasn’t yet reached to that honesty towards her own emotions like this song reflects….. it’s too sad…even if she never plans to let Kudo know about it but the way she turned platonic to curb her feelings from spreading….. it’s really too sad….. I doubt if she’ll ever love again…. I can really empathize with her sane logics…. Had I been in her place I would’ve done the same….. the wound of losing a sister all over again is far more deep than the thought of staying alone always like you had always been till now…. The latter is scary but you are habitual to it……. We all know she has backed away from Kudo… n its too sad that there are still many shinran fans who didn’t notice that conscious choice…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIqimoNyEBQ&feature=related

[ziraulo]

Which he could do with his father, because frankly, it's not Kogoro alone who would have lead him to anything related to the BO.
The problem with the parents in manga is that they're lacking parents, they're not dead, but absent, which is worse, where are the social services when you need them? But let's not digress.
I don't think that Kazuha is on the list of bearable people for Shinichi. The serious danger for Ran is probably

Spoiler: manga

Sera Masumi

His father spends most of his time writing. Kogoro is kind of his best bet right now. XD
IKR?! :O How long has little Shin-chan been there all by himself? D:
Hmm... I agree... Yes. She is a formidable foe....
Kazuha's heart belongs to Heiji... you're right there.

His father is the same guy who leads his editors around on a wild chase...for kicks. Who says he's busy? Besides, Yuusaku has offered him some help, he simply turned it down because it involved leaving Japan.

^
When you love somebody you NEED them. You don't just WANT them. You NEED them. That is a difference between love and a crush.
You don't NEED anything from them, but you NEED them. Shinichi doesn't NEED Ran, but she NEEDS him.

No, every girl can fill in Ran's place, even though Shinichi wouldn't want them to, because there is a possibility she won't be the one for him. He likes her. He said it himself. But he has never said he LOVED her. Therefor, she can be replaced. Maybe not easily, but she can be. When you love somebody you can't replace them. Everybody you attempt to go with after them you end up comparing TO them.
That is why him not NEEDING her is so important. He wants her, but he doesn't need her like she needs him.
As for you, stella007, sorry. But there isn't anything I can say against what you're saying. XD I have no comforting words, dear ShinRan fan... *Pats stella007's shoulder*

Too much need is bad. It could lead to you focusing your life to that person only. That, and I think that want and need are better used for describing lust, not love.

The difference between loving someone and having a crush on someone is that having a crush is more of a physical attraction. Most likely, you only like a person because of how he/she looks. To love someone is to know that person's strengths and weaknesses, and to accept him/her for who he/she is. If you remember how Shinichi and Ran describe each other, then you'll see what I mean.

Contrary to popular belief, Ran isn't very easy to replace. From the looks of it, she's the first person Shinichi ever got attached to that's around his age group. Therefore, she has played a big role in Shinichi's life, possibly even influencing him in the same way he influenced her. Replacing Ran would most likely result into a drastic change in Shinichi's personality.

^ pretty much what Toast said  and plus If Ran was to die from whatever situation I don't see Shinnich crying for months and saying, "eh, what is done is done." and go on with his life without ran without feeling hurt. NO. What I think is going to happen is Shinnich crying for YEARS and even when he accepts the fact that Ran is gone he will be some what broken emotionally and mentally.

this would NOT happen had it been his other friends like Heiji, DBs or Sonoko.

plus if you expected Shinich ( who is NOT most emotional person in the world) to come up to ran in london arc and become lady's man in romantic way... you are mistaken. I believe for Shinnich ( who probably never experienced feeling of love before and like I said never was emotional person) 'like' is far as he can go for saying 'love.' ( I believe Ran also got the message. Other wise why would she refuse to meet with shinnich later on.)

Same here. If Shinichi were to confess, expect the totally unexpected. XD

1. Well that was on his free time. In several cases we have heard from Yukiko that he is very busy trying to write for an upcoming deadline. Authors have very busy lives. Yeah, he would be busy. And he probably turned it down, yes to stay where he was living in the first place with everybody he knows, but also because he wouldn't want to pile that responsibility onto his father's shoulders.

2. Who says the'yd need each-other too much? If you love somebody you will need them. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. It doesn't need to be an excessive amount of worry. You're arguing with me about a door being brown when i'm telling you how tall I think it is.

Yes, she really is. He also grew up with SONOKO, remember? XD She may not know as much as Ran knows about him now, but she could easily take Ran's place and get to know him better. ^^ Ran does not affect his personality. Even when he is not around Ran he acts the exact same way towards all of his friends. She doesn't affect him to that extent. Now HIM affecting HER on the other hand...  :-X

And I disagree. We have never seen Conan cry period. We don't KNOW what triggers his tears. You can't say that. You can assume it but that doesn't make it true. And I seriously doubt he wouldn't cry if his closest friends all were murdered or even just one. But if you want to think that...   lol

1. I don't think so. Yuusaku offered help in the first place, and if I'm not mistaken, he's getting help from the frickin' INTERPOL. As well as the fact that it probably wouldn't be Yuusaku doing all the work, either. Knowing Shinichi, he'll try to do what he can. He'll still be the one doing the hands-on work. Besides, if you were trying to protect someone, you would try to get as far away from that person as you can so the bad guys can't make the connection between the two of you, right? It's similar to Shinichi's method, except that he only pretended to leave so he could be able to drive them away and protect the people close to him at the same time.

2. I don't think you got my point. I'm just saying that too much need is bad because it makes you depend on the that person too much. Believe it or not, that's what need does to you. If you truly need a person, you'd be helpless without him/her, probably like the dependence of an infant to his/her mother. Or Bella to Edward. Last time I checked, Ran still goes on with her life. The worst she's done so far is cry over him. She hasn't been extremely depressed or suicidal over it, right? Besides, sonoci's post on love pretty much cancels out your "want/need" argument.

3. Last time I checked, Sonoko doesn't like him that much. As you can see, they're not that close at all. Sonoko just drops in every once in a while to tease or join in the conversation.

We may not know what triggers his tears, but we do know what triggers a slight weakness in him. I don't think you see it, but like someone else has stated before, Shinichi has a tendency to panic when it's Ran who's in danger. When it's another person in danger, he will remain calm and do what he can. But if Ran so much as faints, he'll start shaking her awake before calling an ambulance. Yes, that's canon. It was in the Chinese Deja Vu in the Rain case. Go. Look. It. Up.


A lot of people really seem to misunderstand the point of Romeo and Juliet, myself once included. It might take several reads, but if you read it and understand it, you will notice that Shakespeare wasn't trying to make the love story of the century: He was trying to point out that love at first sight, getting caught in passion and making rash decisions are pretty crappy moves in the game called life.

As for demanding quotes? Unless you're my English teacher, who has a part of the blackboard dedicated for the "quote of the day", asking for quotes is pretty pointless, especially if the point is rather obvious.

...Did you actually read anything I just wrote?

Specifically this bit?

It wasn't necessarily a parody...

Also, I'm sorry, but yes, demanding quotes from a man who has been dead for nearly four hundred years and left no direct quotes is ridiculous. His plays are his only quotations; if the utter ridicule Pyramus and Thisbe was subjected to in A Midsummer Night's Dream won't convince you on his opinion of "tragic lovers" such as Romeo and Juliet, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Back to the topic... I kinda wish Shinichi would just tell Ran already. Gin already suspects Kogoro, so Ran's already in some danger, and she kicks so much ass she could only be an asset to Shinichi. Yes, it would upset her, but so does thinking Shinichi's running around in danger on his own. She's not weak. She'd be happier knowing where he is and that she can protect him.

^ This. Oh so much. Besides the fact that I wanna see Ran kick Gin's ass, she'd worry less. At least, she could see him and keep an eye out for him. ^^

[kholoudsafir]

@ mangaluva and  sonoci: Thank you what a good job, I would not be able to do a better one 

@ IHKF: How do you compare R & J to Shinichi and Ran, no comparison! Besides, although the first time I watched it when I was about 12 and I did not think it was a love story, I did not like it, I did not see the love in it and I was that young and did not read what critics said about it.

Also, it is nice to accept point of views when they come from people who they know what they are saying, even if you disagree with it. I mean mangaluva studies about drama and literature in the university plus she has interest since before, so if I were you I would say: Ah, I did not know that about R&J!

Moreover DC did not finish yet and you keep saying Shinichi/Conan could have said that or did that, so would you please wait at least?


On topic like it was said Ran is smart and strong, I think Shinichi should stop over protecting her about the BO and put her in the action when needed, like he uses Heiji.