Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Yurikochan]

Now I wanna see Yammy get the whole police force suspended. :x

[Akonyl]

if you wanna suspend the whole police force, just reinstate old-yusaku :I

[Kleene Onigiri]

old-yusaku ftw XD

Anyway, that "can't be tricked" feature is not attached to the ability "confuse" but to the role "Yamamura" (at least that's what it was in the beginning).
Dunno who put that in, the not trickable feature, but afaik it was because Yamamura is so silly, no one can trick him XD

So, if it's not attacked to confuse, anyone copying confuse can still be tricked imo (aka anokata using BS)
And if someone disguises as Yamamura, they can still be tricked (so they don't get that feature/status) because even with disguise, no one can be as silly as Yamamura XD

Also, what do you mean with Heiji kazuha? :V

[Conia]

Spoiler:

Night
Arrest
Discombobulation
APTX
Pinch Face
Protect
Lovey-Dovey
Killing
House Search
All other actions
Travel
Release

Bribe should be added here, with it being first on the list... also APTX over Lovey Dovey?
One more doubt: If Anokata frames Shinichi for killing Kobayashi on Night 1:
- Heiji investigating on Night 1 "Shinichi killed Kobayashi" will come out as True.
-Takagi arresting on Night 1 "Shinichi killed Kobayashi on Night 1" will come out as False and takagi will be suspended.
Is this correct? If not, you may want to separate Frame from all other actions.

Spoiler:

Day
Arrest
Protection charm
Frighten
APTX
Accompany
Protect
Lovey Dovey
Lynch votes/lynching
All other actions
Travel
Release

Again APTX over Lovey Dovey?

Lovey Dovey is supposed to protect you from any type of killing (Except Bribe, cause it is Bribe) so in the Order of Actions, it should be over APTX, both on Night and Day.

Spoiler: Matsumoto

- Matsumoto gets Investigate 1, just so Sonoko actually gets something cool to do.

I would remove this. The whole disadvantage of being Matsumoto is that he can only Arrest, and arrests aren't showed unless they are successful.

Spoiler: Bottle

Note: If Yamato gets the bottle, he will break it.
Note: If Eisuke gets the bottle, he will break it.

Want to know why Yamato and Eisuke will break it

Spoiler: Disguise

Note: KID will be given a random disguise from a role not in the game on Night 1 (Vermouth/Kid may receive the same one).

Why not in the game?

Spoiler: Killing Actions

these abilities can be used whether or not the killing is successful.

Wait wait.... so if I use a killing action, and the killing fails... the action still goes through? Killing Actions rely heavily on the target dying, so that HAS be changed...

Spoiler: Cloack of Deception

- If he does, all actions taken by Gin that phase (Slander, kill, investigate, bowtie interrogate, BS, etc) will return "false" results if investigated/staked-out by other players for the next 2 phases

Gin: Hey Shadowman, want to ally?
Shadowman: Sure. Can I investigate your action?
Gin: Yeah, let's make a cross-investigation!
*Both send the invesitgation for each other*
*Phase change, Gin killed successfully*
Shadowman: OMG YU LYYYYED ABOUT YUR ACTIONZ, YU BO-ISH! *Lynches Gin*
Gin: D:

Yeah.....
If anything, CoD should show crimes as false, not every action performed by Gin. I'd also like to go back to CoD not having a time limit, but I know most people wouldn't agree

Spoiler: Master of Disguise

- On a Night phase where Vermouth attempts to kill somebody, Vermouth may choose to be a "Master of Disguise"

...May? Why make her choose, if there's no reason why she wouldn't use it.... Also there's been problems before with "BO killers not sending their Killing Actions" when they should be like Passive abilities...
If the GM ants to keep them as a choice, please specify that very clearly to all the players (Town and BO)

Spoiler: Hinder

- All actions used on the hindered player will fail, including a kill (except for Bribe and Korn's Quickshot).

(First, it needs to be edited that Yamamura doesn't have Hinder, and only Tequila has it)

Hinder sounds incredibly overpowered by stopping Killing... I suggest that it doesn't.

An idea over Spy List and Deduction list, since they are usually gamebreakers: Make the number of players in them higher, like NumberOfPlayers / 1/2 instead of NumberOfPlayers / 1/3 (Or however it was before).

Another idea is to remove Yuusaku's Pry, seems overpowered to me that Yuusaku or the Town have Pry.



I want to hear opinions, from players and the GM! I also might add more since I haven't read everything yet...

[Mohorovicic]

Spoiler: Matsumoto

- Matsumoto gets Investigate 1, just so Sonoko actually gets something cool to do.

I would remove this. The whole disadvantage of being Matsumoto is that he can only Arrest, and arrests aren't showed unless they are successful.

I actually dislike Matsumoto having the whole "immune to suspension" thing. I would much rather prefer that a) Matsumoto keeps his "immune to suspension", b) He can only arrest once during a Day/Night cycle, c) He gets Investigate 2.

Spoiler: Bottle

Note: If Yamato gets the bottle, he will break it.
Note: If Eisuke gets the bottle, he will break it.

Want to know why Yamato and Eisuke will break it

This was more of a random choice than anything. Eisuke...because he does pretend to be clumsy. And I chose Yamato as the third character that can "break" the bottle. If there's another role you'd like to suggest, by all means, do so, because Yamato seems like a bad choice, having two police who are technically immune to the bottle is worse.

Spoiler: Disguise

Note: KID will be given a random disguise from a role not in the game on Night 1 (Vermouth/Kid may receive the same one).

Why not in the game?

The original Disguise consisted of a disguiser choosing players, and then the GM randomly chooses one of those players, and the disguiser uses it as a disguise.

Plus, if I'm Vermouth - Heiji, and there's an actual Heiji, I'd look rather suspicious, wouldn't I? Especially if I have to claim a role.

What I'm saying is, when Vermouth and KID disguise as a role, that role should not be in the game.

Spoiler: Killing Actions

these abilities can be used whether or not the killing is successful.

Wait wait.... so if I use a killing action, and the killing fails... the action still goes through? Killing Actions rely heavily on the target dying, so that HAS be changed...

I actually thought about this. I haven't come to a conclusion on that, though.

Though I worry that if the kill fails in any way (trick, heal, protect), that it'll make the BO's plans for that night fall through (SI, CoD, and MoD, are good examples). Perhaps I could beef the Killing Actions under the condition that if the kill fails, the Killing Action fails.

Spoiler: Clock of Deception

- If he does, all actions taken by Gin that phase (Slander, kill, investigate, bowtie interrogate, BS, etc) will return "false" results if investigated/staked-out by other players for the next 2 phases

Gin: Hey Shadowman, want to ally?
Shadowman: Sure. Can I investigate your action?
Gin: Yeah, let's make a cross-investigation!
*Both send the invesitgation for each other*
*Phase change, Gin killed successfully*
Shadowman: OMG YU LYYYYED ABOUT YUR ACTIONZ, YU BO-ISH! *Lynches Gin*
Gin: D:

Yeah.....
If anything, CoD should show crimes as false, not every action performed by Gin. I'd also like to go back to CoD not having a time limit, but I know most people wouldn't agree

I like that. Gonna change that.

As for the time limit, I really don't see any problems about it.

Spoiler: Master of Disguise

- On a Night phase where Vermouth attempts to kill somebody, Vermouth may choose to be a "Master of Disguise"

...May? Why make her choose, if there's no reason why she wouldn't use it.... Also there's been problems before with "BO killers not sending their Killing Actions" when they should be like Passive abilities...
If the GM ants to keep them as a choice, please specify that very clearly to all the players (Town and BO)

Might as well give Vermouth the choice. I could also add in that unless Vermouth says no to using MoD, MoD will automatically take effect.

Spoiler: Hinder

- All actions used on the hindered player will fail, including a kill (except for Bribe and Korn's Quickshot).

(First, it needs to be edited that Yamamura doesn't have Hinder, and only Tequila has it)

Hinder sounds incredibly overpowered by stopping Killing... I suggest that it doesn't.

I actually dislike the idea of Hinder all together. It sounds like a weapon for the BO to prevent the town from proving each other.

But really, the chances of Yamamura stopping the kill is the exact same as if Eisuke or Yoko were to try to stop the kill. In fact, Yamamura probably gets less information, considering that he knows the victim, while Eisuke and Yoko will typically know the attacker.

An idea over Spy List and Deduction list, since they are usually gamebreakers: Make the number of players in them higher, like NumberOfPlayers / 1/2 instead of NumberOfPlayers / 1/3 (Or however it was before).

How about NumberOf Players 1/3 + 3?

Another idea is to remove Yuusaku's Pry, seems overpowered to me that Yuusaku or the Town have Pry.

I haven't seen any problems with Yusaku having Pry. (Though it is true that Lyndsi, who was Yusaku, died pretty early on). Also, I did make it so that the DBs show up as "In an Organization".

[PT]

@Conia:
KID's disguise: because he can't disguise as someone that's already in the game.

Hinder: we talked about this before my round, because hindering the victim when you kill them is basically the same as bribe (in that it stop healing of all kinds). Not having it stop the kill would be overpowered.

I highly disagree with not putting a time limit on Cloak of Deception, but I agree that it should only cover up his crimes, not his other actions.


@Moho:
Town should never have Pry. That needs to be taken off. It makes it way too easy for the town to prove each other, provided he pries on someone that isn't FBI or Pol.

[Mohorovicic]

@Moho:
Town should never have Pry. That needs to be taken off. It makes it way too easy for the town to prove each other, provided he pries on someone that isn't FBI or Pol.

Alright. So back to Yusaku with Deduction + Interrogation?

[PT]

I dunno what to give him, tbh, but Pry is just not a good thing for the town.

[Mohorovicic]

I suggest changing Yamamura all together, because Confuse, IMO, just doesn't sound like an ability anyone should have.

Here's my idea:

Inspector Yamamura, Clumsy Investigator
Status: Clumsy
Night Action: Investigate 2
Day Action: Reinvestigate (only when not Clumsy)
Night/Day Action: Arrest (only when not Clumsy)
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: Yes
Items: Gun, Car-keys, Headgear, Alcohol
Observe: Adult
Note:
- Always starts the game off Clumsy.
- While Clumsy, Investigations will give random results.
- Will no longer be Clumsy the phase after Kogoro dies.
- Will no longer be Clumsy even if a disguised Kogoro dies.
- Will no longer be Clumsy after # of the townies die, meaning his investigates on the #th dead will be accurate. This number is typically up to the GM, but it will usually be 6.
- Cannot Reinvestigate or Arrest while Clumsy.

So, Yamamura is kinda like a Kogoro. He gets random investigations, and can Reinvestigate one of his Investigates he does during a Night after he loses "Clumsy".

Opinions?

[KangarooGirl]

@Matsumoto: I agree that Matsumoto is OP'd and his arrest should be nerfed so I agree with Moho's changes. Don't really want what happened in Kleene's round to repeat. Although since we're going to change deduction, maybe it's not so bad.

@Deduction lists: n/3+3 sounds okay to me

@Bottle: Isn't n/2+2 a little long though? Unless your n means the current number of players in which case that should be okay.

@Killing actions: I only put that choice thing in because of Gin. Since it said all actions by Gin so he can choose to use it or not. I would assume the player would want to use their killing action unless stated otherwise. I mean, Vodka might choose not to injure the player to prevent people from knowing he killed that night. Or if Pisco's target would be more beneficial to the BO if they're not erased then maybe he would choose not to.
And well, a lot of the killing actions rely on the kill itself, snipe, erase, etc. But with Vodka, it's mostly the discombobulation rather than the kill so I think his should at least go through even though the kill isn't successful. =\

@Hinder: Umm....why are we worried about the whole hindering the kill part being OPed if no town role has it? It's mostly to stop the BO from using that to guarantee the kill goes through (except in the case of discombobulating the attacker of course)

@Pry: Yeah, I know that having the DBs becoming into an org makes it a little better but if a townie gets non-org for someone, they're almost definitely town since no BO (except disguises) come up with that result =\ I would vote going back to interrogate or deduction. Like we said before, it's just too powerful in the hands of the town. Also, consider putting the DBs back into non-org though so it gives Conan and Haibara more cover.

@Clumsy: I think maybe use a number portion like Kogoro's instead of 6. n/4 or something? And why does Yamamura have alcohol? I don't remember him ever drinking or liking alcohol Also, is Yamamura still immune to discombobulating?

[Conia]

Spoiler: Matsumoto

- Matsumoto gets Investigate 1, just so Sonoko actually gets something cool to do.

I would remove this. The whole disadvantage of being Matsumoto is that he can only Arrest, and arrests aren't showed unless they are successful.

I actually dislike Matsumoto having the whole "immune to suspension" thing. I would much rather prefer that a) Matsumoto keeps his "immune to suspension", b) He can only arrest once during a Day/Night cycle, c) He gets Investigate 2.

I'd vote A, but being able to only arrest during Night, for example, might be good too.

Spoiler: Disguise

Note: KID will be given a random disguise from a role not in the game on Night 1 (Vermouth/Kid may receive the same one).

Why not in the game?

The original Disguise consisted of a disguiser choosing players, and then the GM randomly chooses one of those players, and the disguiser uses it as a disguise.

Plus, if I'm Vermouth - Heiji, and there's an actual Heiji, I'd look rather suspicious, wouldn't I? Especially if I have to claim a role.

What I'm saying is, when Vermouth and KID disguise as a role, that role should not be in the game.

Both Heijis would look suspicious, it is up to the player's skill (and luck ) to successfully be trusted or lynched

Spoiler: Killing Actions

these abilities can be used whether or not the killing is successful.

Wait wait.... so if I use a killing action, and the killing fails... the action still goes through? Killing Actions rely heavily on the target dying, so that HAS be changed...

I actually thought about this. I haven't come to a conclusion on that, though.

Though I worry that if the kill fails in any way (trick, heal, protect), that it'll make the BO's plans for that night fall through (SI, CoD, and MoD, are good examples). Perhaps I could beef the Killing Actions under the condition that if the kill fails, the Killing Action fails.

Make it like you say: If the killing fails, the killing action fails.

Spoiler: Master of Disguise

- On a Night phase where Vermouth attempts to kill somebody, Vermouth may choose to be a "Master of Disguise"

...May? Why make her choose, if there's no reason why she wouldn't use it.... Also there's been problems before with "BO killers not sending their Killing Actions" when they should be like Passive abilities...
If the GM ants to keep them as a choice, please specify that very clearly to all the players (Town and BO)

Might as well give Vermouth the choice. I could also add in that unless Vermouth says no to using MoD, MoD will automatically take effect.

That could work

An idea over Spy List and Deduction list, since they are usually gamebreakers: Make the number of players in them higher, like NumberOfPlayers / 1/2 instead of NumberOfPlayers / 1/3 (Or however it was before).

How about NumberOf Players 1/3 + 3?

That works too.

@Hinder: I see, and as long as only the BO can use it, it should be fine, I guess.

@Moho:
Town should never have Pry. That needs to be taken off. It makes it way too easy for the town to prove each other, provided he pries on someone that isn't FBI or Pol.

Alright. So back to Yusaku with Deduction + Interrogation?

That's a Yes for me.

@New Yamamura: I like it I'd add that he stops being clumsy if a high-rank officer (Matsumoto/Megure/Shiratori) dies.

RM'd by Hayley:
@Hinder: Yamamura had it before, and still does on some parts of the rules And he can be discombobulated now, I'd guess.

[KangarooGirl]

@disguises: Well, yes. But once you get the other person lynched, you're screwed. So...no.

@Yamamura: Yeah, I agree with high-ranked pol death to be added. Because if Kogoro's not in the game, that could potentially be a long time before he gets unclumsy

Other suggestions:
BS: Can we change inv 4 to be one of the optional real abilities? and make it that the BO can choose 2 instead? or is that too powerful? Because the BO might already have investigative roles handy and not need any more.

Gossip: I was thinking of giving Kazuha this as a permanent ability instead of just Sonoko. She feels kinda useless normally

[Mohorovicic]

@Bottle: Isn't n/2+2 a little long though? Unless your n means the current number of players in which case that should be okay.

Do you want to make it n/2? Because n is a constant variable, the number of players in the game, dead and alive.

@Pry: Yeah, I know that having the DBs becoming into an org makes it a little better but if a townie gets non-org for someone, they're almost definitely town since no BO (except disguises) come up with that result =\ I would vote going back to interrogate or deduction. Like we said before, it's just too powerful in the hands of the town. Also, consider putting the DBs back into non-org though so it gives Conan and Haibara more cover.

Since only Gin has it now, why not~

@Clumsy: I think maybe use a number portion like Kogoro's instead of 6. n/4 or something? And why does Yamamura have alcohol? I don't remember him ever drinking or liking alcohol Also, is Yamamura still immune to discombobulating?

He is friends with Kogoro, so I just threw that in. And no, he is no longer immune to discombobulation.

@Yamamura: Yeah, I agree with high-ranked pol death to be added. Because if Kogoro's not in the game, that could potentially be a long time before he gets unclumsy

But disguised Kogoro also counts towards the unclumsy.

Alright then: Kogoro, Megure, Shiratori, and Matsumoto. No disguises will count.

BS: Can we change inv 4 to be one of the optional real abilities? and make it that the BO can choose 2 instead? or is that too powerful? Because the BO might already have investigative roles handy and not need any more.

I'm planning of having the BO choosing two actions to set for the BS:
Slander
Discombobulate
Inv 4
Steal
Frighten

But the catch is: If any BO member can use those actions, the BO can't set those specific actions to the BS. Ex. If Gin is in the game, Slander cannot be set for the BS, and so on.

Gossip: I was thinking of giving Kazuha this as a permanent ability instead of just Sonoko. She feels kinda useless normally

Kazuha can stop an APTX and do the opposite of what Kujou does. I think Gossip should be limited to Sonoko.

[Vylash]

Kazuha sucks, give her gossip

[pofa]

Kazuha can stop lynches and get rid of an APTX with no penalty. She doesn't suck really, she's just a hard role to play because she can't gather info and has to ally instead, same as almost every day role (and healer/protector).

Making roles more interesting is cool, but  Agasa/Ran/Makoto, etc are in the same boat, and Kazuha's already pretty powerful if you play her right. :/ I guess I wouldn't be against trying it, but the BO is already plenty scared of that role.