Detective Conan Files 796-800 Discussion Thread: Dun dun dun

[Mr_Useless]

That's because Ran is her mother, but let us not derail the thread.

I'm kinda confused by the file. First, I don't see how Conan could have faked drinking the entire bottle unless he had an empty one to swap it with, but that doesn't quite sound possible. He might have gradually spilt it on the seat, helped by the darkness, maybe.
As for the "he drank it on purpose", that would be a pretty reckless thing to do. Most importantly, how would he know the woman got the dose of the drug she used right? And how could he be absolutely sure she was only going to put him to sleep? That wouldn't be clear to him even if he actually saw her put the drug in.
To me it sounds stupid either way, I'm waiting to see how this goes.

[leokiko]

not to mention Haibara always feels those evil vibes from him. For me it was clear when Subaru recognized Chianti (and Korn) on that window.

about Sera, there was once when she made a comment on how she will develop a chest like her mother and then said "Right, Ran?" like Ran was supposed to know her mother. Or am I just imagining things...

Haibara always felt evil vibes from Akai. Seriously, read Chekhov's theories x.x.

[believer08]

Haibara always felt evil vibes from Akai. Seriously, read Chekhov's theories x.x.

Spoiler:

That's why it's impossible to figure out by theorizing. Both theories could work. Okiya = Bourbon or Okiya = Akai

And, I have to say it, Chekhov's is a genius ^^

[sonoci]

I'm kinda confused by the file. First, I don't see how Conan could have faked drinking the entire bottle unless he had an empty one to swap it with, but that doesn't quite sound possible. He might have gradually spilt it on the seat, helped by the darkness, maybe.
As for the "he drank it on purpose", that would be a pretty reckless thing to do. Most importantly, how would he know the woman got the dose of the drug she used right? And how could he be absolutely sure she was only going to put him to sleep? That wouldn't be clear to him even if he actually saw her put the drug in.

Well, your first question is answered easily: he didn't drink the entire bottle. If you look while he's "falling asleep" there's still quite a bit of juice left. ...In fact, it almost looks like he didn't drink any.

Yeah it'd be reckless and those are some good questions. Which leads to my own question: How did "Kei" put the drug in the drink in the first place?

"How do you like the fruit juice I recommended from the vending machine that we stopped off at...?"

(If there's not some kind of trick to the translation of this line) This seems to suggest that she just said something like "That juice is pretty good" and let him press the button. While that's kind of suspicious in its own right, how would she have drugged it? In that scenario, Conan would've had to give her the bottle after he got it out of the machine so she could tamper with it. She also could've laced somewhere with...something to make him fall asleep (like the button of the vending machine or her car) but that seems too prepared. Didn't Conan just randomly tag along? How would she have set this up?

Hopefully there's a good explanation as to how this all worked :X

[Abs.]

"How do you like the fruit juice I recommended from the vending machine that we stopped off at...?"

(If there's not some kind of trick to the translation of this line) This seems to suggest that she just said something like "That juice is pretty good" and let him press the button. While that's kind of suspicious in its own right, how would she have drugged it? In that scenario, Conan would've had to give her the bottle after he got it out of the machine so she could tamper with it. She also could've laced somewhere with...something to make him fall asleep (like the button of the vending machine or her car) but that seems too prepared. Didn't Conan just randomly tag along? How would she have set this up?

Hopefully there's a good explanation as to how this all worked :X

The only "trick" to the translation is that I didn't include the word "buy" since it wasn't clear who did the buying.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I'm kinda confused by the file. First, I don't see how Conan could have faked drinking the entire bottle unless he had an empty one to swap it with, but that doesn't quite sound possible. He might have gradually spilt it on the seat, helped by the darkness, maybe.
As for the "he drank it on purpose", that would be a pretty reckless thing to do.

Besides Sonoci's point, Conan may be able to spill it down the side of the seat opposite Fake Kei while she is not looking. It's pretty much impossible to mind the road (especially at night) and the person sitting in the seat beside you. It would be pretty easy for Conan to watch her and wait for her to approach intersections where her attention will be distracted and then do something sneaky.

Most importantly, how would he know the woman got the dose of the drug she used right? And how could he be absolutely sure she was only going to put him to sleep? That wouldn't be clear to him even if he actually saw her put the drug in.

Yeah it'd be reckless and those are some good questions. Which leads to my own question: How did "Kei" put the drug in the drink in the first place?
(If there's not some kind of trick to the translation of this line) This seems to suggest that she just said something like "That juice is pretty good" and let him press the button. While that's kind of suspicious in its own right, how would she have drugged it? In that scenario, Conan would've had to give her the bottle after he got it out of the machine so she could tamper with it. She also could've laced somewhere with...something to make him fall asleep (like the button of the vending machine or her car) but that seems too prepared. Didn't Conan just randomly tag along? How would she have set this up? Hopefully there's a good explanation as to how this all worked :X

I think the scenario happened exactly as you described it. She bought the drink for Conan, drugged it, and gave it to him. She doesn't know Conan is tricky; he's just another easily fooled brat. Conan saw the whole thing of course and played along. Conan doesn't need to know whether she got the dose right or even what the substance was (sleeping or poison) because 1) Kei isn't going to bother with something tricky because she thinks Conan is just a child, and 2) Conan's "drop the drink and hold still" act works for both. My guess is that it is sleeping pills, which she had with her because Fake Kei needed to drug the Real Kei to keep him down while setting up the trick. Fake Kei may have not used the taser at all, she did serve drinks at the agency to Real Kei which may have been drugged so he would fall asleep.

not to mention Haibara always feels those evil vibes from him. For me it was clear when Subaru recognized Chianti (and Korn) on that window.

about Sera, there was once when she made a comment on how she will develop a chest like her mother and then said "Right, Ran?" like Ran was supposed to know her mother. Or am I just imagining things...

This batch of theories is what leokiko and PhoenixTears are referring to. They are explanations of the most commonly believed theories about the identities of Okiya, Amuro, Sera, Bourbon, etc.

edit: Also Chek, going for "ulterior motives Amuro had for hanging up on Sera", aside from goading her into appearing at the Agency, if he *is* Bourbon/someone Akai knows, it's possible he did so so that Sera wouldn't hear his voice. Even if Sera couldn't immediately identify him, an unknown voice makin deductions could prompt Sera to ask "who's that guy?" and have Ran be like "that's Amuro lol"

This would make sense as long as he is worried Sera might recognize his voice somehow, implying past meeting. The extent that Amuro is interested in Sera, assuming he is Bourbon, isn't clear. It could be a general interest in people hanging around Kogoro, interest because he thinks Sera's vague description may match someone notable (like Akai's sister), or interest because he somehow already knows who Sera is and now has a good idea where she is.

just realises these facts.
the unscratched phone belongs to victim2.
as serial number (unique to a phone) would have given fake kei away.
the reply sent by kogoro to kei was deleted .
this is totaly odd.
conan drops the bottle but juice didn't flew out. meaning either conan has drank the juice or poured away beforehand.

The scratched phone probably belongs to victim 1, Dreadlocks (the real Kei), not the guy in the suitcase. The reason why is because Dreadlocks also had a scratched lighter and the coins that would do the scratching with him.
I doubt the serial number would have given fake-Kei away because Fake Kei is pretending to be the real Kei, both in name and home address, so having a phone registered to "Kashitsuka Kei" at the apartment address of the real Kei won't raise suspicion even if the police checked it before she left. (I don't think the police checked because they didn't bring it up and are assuming a suicide for now.) The other phone, Fake Kei's, merely needs to me registered by her to a false name which isn't too difficult considering other culprits have done similar.
The reply to Kogoro deleted shows the phone's memory had been tampered with, as expected because Kei needed to erase anything on the phones that would identify who really own them.

----

Twice so far in the case, Kogoro has given Conan a plausible deniability shield; the first instance was Kogoro coming along in the car with the excuse he was worried about "Kei", the second time needing to go to the bathroom which enabled him to enter the apartment. The reason why I think this is notable is that from a suspicious outsider's perspective, based on Kogoro and Conan's actions so far, the outsider can't prove for sure (vs. strong suspicion) that Conan is the brains behind Kogoro, or if Kogoro is just a weirdo who likes to pretend to be stupid until he reveals the solution. The reason why I think this is important is because it's potentially a literary clue (not a "real " one) that shows how much suspicion Amuro has about Conan.
If Amuro thought Conan was the brains behind the otherwise dumb Kogoro, he would focus his investigation on Conan, like Sera has, and would likely run across Agasa and Haibara as part of it, like Sera did. Assuming Amuro is loyal to the Org, unlike Vermouth, he would report Haibara and potentially Conan as well. That would kill the story right there, which therefore makes a loyal Amuro investigating Conan and not dying right away not a workable plot. This implies that, right now, Amuro still is not suspicious enough of Conan to do a full check on him, which further implies that Amuro still has at least some faith in the idea that Kogoro is the main brains of the agency (and would be the connection with Akai). The other clue for this is that Amuro knows Kogoro's routine, but otherwise hasn't done the same kind of probing that Sera has done on Conan.

[Mr_Useless]

Oops, I think I read the bottle was empty and just assumed it was the truth, I suck at remembering details and was too lazy to doublecheck

Makes sense then, she bought him the drink, opened it for him, distracted him, slipped the pills and gave it to him. What was making no sense with that was the empty bottle, but as that was only a product of my imagination then...

[sonoci]

Yeah it'd be reckless and those are some good questions. Which leads to my own question: How did "Kei" put the drug in the drink in the first place?
(If there's not some kind of trick to the translation of this line) This seems to suggest that she just said something like "That juice is pretty good" and let him press the button. While that's kind of suspicious in its own right, how would she have drugged it? In that scenario, Conan would've had to give her the bottle after he got it out of the machine so she could tamper with it. She also could've laced somewhere with...something to make him fall asleep (like the button of the vending machine or her car) but that seems too prepared. Didn't Conan just randomly tag along? How would she have set this up? Hopefully there's a good explanation as to how this all worked :X

I think the scenario happened exactly as you described it. She bought the drink for Conan, drugged it, and gave it to him. She doesn't know Conan is tricky; he's just another easily fooled brat. Conan saw the whole thing of course and played along. Conan doesn't need to know whether she got the dose right or even what the substance was (sleeping or poison) because 1) Kei isn't going to bother with something tricky because she thinks Conan is just a child, and 2) Conan's "drop the drink and hold still" act works for both. My guess is that it is sleeping pills, which she had with her because Fake Kei needed to drug the Real Kei to keep him down while setting up the trick. Fake Kei may have not used the taser at all, she did serve drinks at the agency to Real Kei which may have been drugged so he would fall asleep.

Ah right, forgot she would've met with the other guy that died. That explains why she'd have sleeping pills on her. If he made that conclusion (which he almost 100% would've) then it'd make sense that Conan would purposely allow her to drug him. That way he could easily spy on her. He most likely even prompted her to open it with something like "Could you open it for me?" *knows from experience that some bottles SUCK to open ;x;*

Then Fake Kei would drug the drink almost certainly and then Conan just has to pretend. Problem solv-

Hey wait, speaking of the taser...Fake Kei said she was knocked out by it. Would that have left a mark? If it would *can't remember right now* wouldn't the police have checked for it? Or...did they just trust her word? It's actually probably nothing, but it still bugs me for whatever reason. :V

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Ah right, forgot she would've met with the other guy that died. That explains why she'd have sleeping pills on her. If he made that conclusion (which he almost 100% would've) then it'd make sense that Conan would purposely allow her to drug him. That way he could easily spy on her. He most likely even prompted her to open it with something like "Could you open it for me?" *knows from experience that some bottles SUCK to open ;x;*

Conan probably guessed what she was going to once she said she was going to stop at a vending machine to get the recommended juice.

Problem solv-

Hey wait, speaking of the taser...Fake Kei said she was knocked out by it. Would that have left a mark? If it would *can't remember right now* wouldn't the police have checked for it? Or...did they just trust her word? It's actually probably nothing, but it still bugs me for whatever reason. :V

Gosho's standard of evidence handling has been sketchy in this case. For sure the police should have kept the scratched phone because the dead guy used it to send messages according to "Kei's" testimony.

-----
The whole Fake Kei and Real Kei switch, the woman is the murderer of at least the forst guy, and this case being related to the robbery have been pretty well discussed already. The issues remaining are:

0) Why did the Fake Kei need to intercept the real one at Kogoro's office instead of killing him elsewhere or something like that?
1) The trick and timing "Kei" used to kill dreadlocks Kei (towel with corner wet, laces with knots) and why she would have to shoo Mouri and Conan from the bathroom for a second at first before initiating the trick.
2) Fake Kei's relationship to the robbery and the man in the photo. Is she one of the three robbers, a helper of the robbers, or someone related to the bank?
3) What is going on between the robbers? Infighting? Why is the money in the locker somewhere if it is?
4) Why would the Real Kei need to find the locker in the first place, and how and where did he get the key for it without knowing which locker it is for?
5) Fake Kei's motive for the crime. Money, revenge? She didn't try to keep the locker key. Is it even the real locker key or did she switch it out for another?
6) Who is Fake Kei contacting of the Real Kei's phone and why? Where is she going?
7) Who killed the guy in the suitcase? What was the motive? Is suitcase guy one of the robbers?
8) What is Sera going to do now that she has been cut off from Ran? Did Subaru see the broadcast? etc...
9) What Amuro's behavior in this case so far implies about him. (This has been discussed a little.)

[leokiko]

Haibara always felt evil vibes from Akai. Seriously, read Chekhov's theories x.x.

Spoiler:

That's why it's impossible to figure out by theorizing. Both theories could work. Okiya = Bourbon or Okiya = Akai

And, I have to say it, Chekhov's is a genius ^^

Spoiler:

Actually, it isn't impossible. Okiya = Akai. A strong point proving this: Why would Conan give the keys to his house to someone that could be a potential BO member? He even acknowledged his house as the perfect place to spy on Haibara. All of this, of course, right off Chekhov's theories thread.

[believer08]

I agree with Chekhov's theories. We were trying to explain the point to one member of the forum that we are theorizing about the thread, because the okiya=bourbon theory was posted by him/her, without rading Chekhov's ones.

Sorry about the off-topic comment, but I wanted it to be clear.

[sstimson]

I'm kinda confused by the file. First, I don't see how Conan could have faked drinking the entire bottle unless he had an empty one to swap it with, but that doesn't quite sound possible. He might have gradually spilt it on the seat, helped by the darkness, maybe.
As for the "he drank it on purpose", that would be a pretty reckless thing to do.

Besides Sonoci's point, Conan may be able to spill it down the side of the seat opposite Fake Kei while she is not looking. It's pretty much impossible to mind the road (especially at night) and the person sitting in the seat beside you. It would be pretty easy for Conan to watch her and wait for her to approach intersections where her attention will be distracted and then do something sneaky.

You like to make things hard. Very easy way. Conan Smells it then as she is driving can not really watch him closely, He waits for her to turn away and then drops the bottle. Until they arrive at their destination, there is no way for her to know if he drank or how much as the very act of dropping the bottle can either release all the contents or just part, and if enough time goes by, some will be lose to evaporation. There is no need to empty the bottle before hand.

[Mr_Useless]

I'm kinda confused by the file. First, I don't see how Conan could have faked drinking the entire bottle unless he had an empty one to swap it with, but that doesn't quite sound possible. He might have gradually spilt it on the seat, helped by the darkness, maybe.
As for the "he drank it on purpose", that would be a pretty reckless thing to do.

Besides Sonoci's point, Conan may be able to spill it down the side of the seat opposite Fake Kei while she is not looking. It's pretty much impossible to mind the road (especially at night) and the person sitting in the seat beside you. It would be pretty easy for Conan to watch her and wait for her to approach intersections where her attention will be distracted and then do something sneaky.

You like to make things hard. Very easy way. Conan Smells it then as she is driving can not really watch him closely, He waits for her to turn away and then drops the bottle. Until they arrive at their destination, there is no way for her to know if he drank or how much as the very act of dropping the bottle can either release all the contents or just part, and if enough time goes by, some will be lose to evaporation. There is no need to empty the bottle before hand.

Page 13 panel 2, the bottle is only 3/4 full

[Akonyl]

You like to make things hard. Very easy way. Conan Smells it then as she is driving can not really watch him closely, He waits for her to turn away and then drops the bottle. Until they arrive at their destination, there is no way for her to know if he drank or how much as the very act of dropping the bottle can either release all the contents or just part, and if enough time goes by, some will be lose to evaporation. There is no need to empty the bottle before hand.

just dropping the bottle would have been noticed by her though, and I doubt Gosho would have left that part out if she noticed as well. As for evaporation, I really doubt a substantial amount at all would evaporate in the time period they were in the car for.

[ahrjay]

Problem solv-

Hey wait, speaking of the taser...Fake Kei said she was knocked out by it. Would that have left a mark? If it would *can't remember right now* wouldn't the police have checked for it? Or...did they just trust her word? It's actually probably nothing, but it still bugs me for whatever reason. :V

Gosho's standard of evidence handling has been sketchy in this case. For sure the police should have kept the scratched phone because the dead guy used it to send messages according to "Kei's" testimony.

I think we should just assume that the police already checked the taser burn, and that it wasn't significant enough to be drawn in the panels. As for the scratched phone,  that's a different story.

I haven't seen and used sleeping pills before, so I might be wrong. I think it's not possible for someone to be able to smell dissolved sleeping pills/drug in a liquid or, in this case, the juice which should have a fruity aroma and could mask the smell of the sleeping pill (considering it does give off some kind of distinct smell after dissolution). Does that make any sense? xD

He knows she is bad, and not to take juice from murderers.

The reason why I think Conan's faking being knocked out.