conan x ...

[Detective Prince]

Do we at least agree that 7-year-old-looking Conan, who's actually 17-years-old, with the 7 year old Ayumi, is lolicon wrong?

Not any more wrong than the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 17 year old Ran. Or the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 7-year-old-looking Haibara.
Let's face it, as a 7 year old Conan would not be able to be with any girl - at least not in a serious relationship.

This leads to the conclusion that Conan HAS to grow up to be with anyone.

As for the grown-up Ayumi, all that you've said is just plain speculations. We can't really know if the grown-up Ayumi will keep the same interests and values that she has now. People do change, and maybe Ai is a good example of that. Nobody can deny how much she has changed since she knew Conan; she's learned a lot from him and he's learned from her as well.

Really? What did Conan learn from Haibara that he didn't know before? There is nothing that comes to my mind. Maybe you will find a small thing if you search long enough. But the same could probably be said for Ayumi as well.

You have to assume some stability in the likes, dislikes and behavior of the characters. Yes, Ayumi might change her interests and values. But at the same point Haibara could become a giggling, girly friend-of-all-living-beings. Could happen. But it is unlikely.

the bold part is the only thing that made sense 

[Shuuichi Akai]

Do we at least agree that 7-year-old-looking Conan, who's actually 17-years-old, with the 7 year old Ayumi, is lolicon wrong?

Not any more wrong than the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 17 year old Ran. Or the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 7-year-old-looking Haibara.
Let's face it, as a 7 year old Conan would not be able to be with any girl - at least not in a serious relationship.

This leads to the conclusion that Conan HAS to grow up to be with anyone.

As for the grown-up Ayumi, all that you've said is just plain speculations. We can't really know if the grown-up Ayumi will keep the same interests and values that she has now. People do change, and maybe Ai is a good example of that. Nobody can deny how much she has changed since she knew Conan; she's learned a lot from him and he's learned from her as well.

Really? What did Conan learn from Haibara that he didn't know before? There is nothing that comes to my mind. Maybe you will find a small thing if you search long enough. But the same could probably be said for Ayumi as well.

You have to assume some stability in the likes, dislikes and behavior of the characters. Yes, Ayumi might change her interests and values. But at the same point Haibara could become a giggling, girly friend-of-all-living-beings. Could happen. But it is unlikely.

the bold part is the only thing that made sense 

You are mean...

[Dus]

Not any more wrong than the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 17 year old Ran. Or the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 7-year-old-looking Haibara.
Let's face it, as a 7 year old Conan would not be able to be with any girl - at least not in a serious relationship.

Yes, there is so much more wrong with that. Conan, Ai, and Ran are all grown-ups in mind and Ayumi is still a giggly little school girl, both on the outside and on the inside. If Ran were attracted to Conan, not knowing that he is in fact Shinichi, that would be plain wrong.

This leads to the conclusion that Conan HAS to grow up to be with anyone.

I tend to agree, but Ai and Conan both harbour the romantic feelings of their grown-up selves, even if there's nothing going on in the downstairs department

Really? What did Conan learn from Haibara that he didn't know before? There is nothing that comes to my mind. Maybe you will find a small thing if you search long enough. But the same could probably be said for Ayumi as well.

Emotionally, he really hasn't learned that much, at least nothing I could cite. But she can remind him that he is still but human and counter-balances his optimism. And she is very dear to him, protecting her is a definite priority. If you ask me, she comes right after Ran for him.
And Conan learning something from Ayumi? Seriously? What could he possibly learn from her? That pink is a very pretty colour? (Ai has learned something from her, I'll give you that. ) Stop deluding yourself...

You have to assume some stability in the likes, dislikes and behavior of the characters. Yes, Ayumi might change her interests and values. But at the same point Haibara could become a giggling, girly friend-of-all-living-beings. Could happen. But it is unlikely.

Again, your deluding yourself. How much do you have in common with your 7-year-old self? How much do you have in common with your 17-year-old self? People change drastically in their teenage years. The personalities of Shinichi and Shiho are not set in stone yet, but they won't change radically. Evolution instead of revolution.
Haibara becoming giggling and girly? There is no chance that will happen unless she falls prey to some mental disease. She is feminine, sophisticated and a friend-of-all-creatures.

"Reciprocal" (=opposite, inverse) is a good word to describe Conan and Haibara. They are completely inverse to each other. Too different to really understand each other.

Yes, reciprocal is a good word to describe Conan and Haibara. Unfortunately, you do not understand what it means: Mutual. They both benefit from each other. (You're thinking ofdiametric.)

As you said, it is different with Conan and Ayumi: They like the same things so they are more or less "linear" to each other.

Ð

[Schillok]

Not any more wrong than the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 17 year old Ran. Or the 7-year-old-looking Conan with the 7-year-old-looking Haibara.
Let's face it, as a 7 year old Conan would not be able to be with any girl - at least not in a serious relationship.

Yes, there is so much more wrong with that. Conan, Ai, and Ran are all grown-ups in mind and Ayumi is still a giggly little school girl, both on the outside and on the inside. If Ran were attracted to Conan, not knowing that he is in fact Shinichi, that would be plain wrong.

But it would be okay if Conan felt for Haibara, who he only knows as a 7 year old? And the number of times Haibara has seen the grown up Shinichi can be counted on one hand as well.
Why is Conan not allowed to fall in love with Ayumis personality as well, especially if she is given enough time to grow up sufficiently?

This leads to the conclusion that Conan HAS to grow up to be with anyone.

I tend to agree, but Ai and Conan both harbour the romantic feelings of their grown-up selves, even if there's nothing going on in the downstairs department

Haibara wasn't exactly in love with anyone while she was still Shiho, right? That doesn't mean she would be unable to fall in love now - after all Ayumi did so as well - but if you want to disregard the possibility that Ayumi is really in love, then the same must be true for Haibara as well. Love has a physical component after all, it is influenced by hormons. And as it is quite obvious, both Conan and Haibara have the same hormon balance as any other child their (physical) age.

Really? What did Conan learn from Haibara that he didn't know before? There is nothing that comes to my mind. Maybe you will find a small thing if you search long enough. But the same could probably be said for Ayumi as well.

Emotionally, he really hasn't learned that much, at least nothing I could cite. But she can remind him that he is still but human and counter-balances his optimism. And she is very dear to him, protecting her is a definite priority. If you ask me, she comes right after Ran for him.
And Conan learning something from Ayumi? Seriously? What could he possibly learn from her? That pink is a very pretty colour? (Ai has learned something from her, I'll give you that. ) Stop deluding yourself...

I think getting shrunk and his first days as a 7 year old have shown him enough humility - not to forget the cases where he was not able to save everyone despite his best efforts, he didn't need Haibara for that. Counter-balancing his optimism is nothing that he learned, it is just something that Haibara does constantly. And actually, it encourages him (and the other DBs) to be even more optimistic than to agree on her view.
I think Ayumi has taught him that he shouldn't underestimate little children. Okay, actually all the Detective Boys have surprised Conan in a positive way now and then.

You have to assume some stability in the likes, dislikes and behavior of the characters. Yes, Ayumi might change her interests and values. But at the same point Haibara could become a giggling, girly friend-of-all-living-beings. Could happen. But it is unlikely.

Again, your deluding yourself. How much do you have in common with your 7-year-old self? How much do you have in common with your 17-year-old self? People change drastically in their teenage years. The personalities of Shinichi and Shiho are not set in stone yet, but they won't change radically. Evolution instead of revolution.
Haibara becoming giggling and girly? There is no chance that will happen unless she falls prey to some mental disease. She is feminine, sophisticated and a friend-of-all-creatures.

I would say my character and everything did not change very much. Of course I got a lot of knowledge and greatly improved my social skills during that time, but my basic values and interests remained the same.
Let's take a look at 7 year old Shinichi - or at least at the few things that we know about him. How much did he change compared to his 17 year old self? Not much, right? So I expect the same for Ayumi.
As I said: There is a chance that Ayumi could change her personality while growing up. But at the same time, so could Haibara. Though, I expect both of their characters to remain similar to how they are now.

Translation: Don't have a friend who always agrees with you, but have a friend who argues with you.

Might work with a friend. After all, if you feel like doing different things, you can just do so. There is no reason to be always together.
However, if you want to build a stable, permanent relationship, this won't work. 

Again, this is pure speculation. Ran certain was impressed by Shinichis knowledge since early childhood and carried on (and developed) her feelings while they grew up. There is no reason why Ayumi can't be the same way.

Shinichi's knowledge is impressive for an adult as well. Considering that Ayumi is a Mini-Ran, she will probably grow up to be just like her.

Well, finally something we agree on. I mean... you consider Ayumi growing up like Ran as an advantage for her relationship with Conan as well, right?

He sees her as a little girl right now because... well, because she IS a little girl. (Though he also seems her as a friend I think.)

Do you really have to tell youse about the Westermarck effect again?

This sentence seems a bit messed up. Not sure what you wanted to say, but I never mentioned the Westermarck effect in my previous post. Since it couldn't be applied anyway.

The  Westermarck effect will, for God's sake. He will never fall in love with her but he might use her as a replacement for a Ran if she shuns him. Ayumi will grow up to be a rather beautiful girl and will be available for Conan to fulfill his physical needs. He's but a man after all.

Unfortunately, the  Westermarck effect  might be in the way of AixConan as well. He chiefly thinks of her as a little girl even if he knows that she isn't. This is illustrated by the fact that he calls her Haibara even when she's back in her old body. This wouldn't be a problem if she takes the antidote at the end of the series and once again becomes what she is - a gorgeous woman. He has known the girl Haibara for less than a year, so his view of her can still change.
If she, however, chooses to lead the rest of her life as Ai Haibara, then Shinichi will continue to think of her as exactly that.

You seem to forget something about the Westermarck effect: It only applies to children in regular contact with each other during the first few years of their lives.
According to what I read this includes only the first 5 years. Ayumi is already older than that, so the Westernmarck effect will not influence her affections towards Conan. (Though, it might affect her relationship to Genta and Mitsuhiko, if you believe the special to movie 12).

This effect will only have an influence on Shinichi x Ran - again, depending on how much contact they had. It would not prevent Haibara from developing feelings for Conan as well in future.

[Dus]

But it would be okay if Conan felt for Haibara, who he only knows as a 7 year old? And the number of times Haibara has seen the grown up Shinichi can be counted on one hand as well.
Why is Conan not allowed to fall in love with Ayumis personality as well, especially if she is given enough time to grow up sufficiently?

Because he KNOWS she's an adult. Ai definitely sees him as Shinichi, otherwise she wouldn't keep calling him Kudo. It's quite possible she had already taken an interest in Shinichi before she met him personally. If he does, it will only happen because she reminds him of Ran

Haibara wasn't exactly in love with anyone while she was still Shiho, right?

Wrong. We don't know. There might have been something between her and Gin. She might have been attracted by Shinichi even before she was shrunk.

That doesn't mean she would be unable to fall in love now - after all Ayumi did so as well - but if you want to disregard the possibility that Ayumi is really in love, then the same must be true for Haibara as well. Love has a physical component after all, it is influenced by hormons. And as it is quite obvious, both Conan and Haibara have the same hormon balance as any other child their (physical) age.

So in your opinion, Conan doesn't love Ran either? Again, your argument is flawed. Ai and Conan remember what love feels like, because in their previous lifes they had these hormones flowing through their bodies. I don't think Ai is attracted physically by Conan because she cannot get aroused anymore. But she certainly still considers herself a sensual, feminine woman.

Spoiler:

In the onsen case she is apparently annoyed that Conan does not see her as one.

I think getting shrunk and his first days as a 7 year old have shown him enough humility - not to forget the cases where he was not able to save everyone despite his best efforts, he didn't need Haibara for that. Counter-balancing his optimism is nothing that he learned, it is just something that Haibara does constantly. And actually, it encourages him (and the other DBs) to be even more optimistic than to agree on her view.
I think Ayumi has taught him that he shouldn't underestimate little children. Okay, actually all the Detective Boys have surprised Conan in a positive way now and then.

Do you really think he has become humble? He's still annoyingly smug. Haibara is one of the few people he considers an equal and she is the only who don't think he's omnipotent. (Even Heiji idolizes him) She is the only one capable of bringing him back to earth. It is true that he was surprised by the children. But as you rightly said; the DB surprised him and not Ayumi in particular. He also dismisses the crushes of the DBs as childish whims. He never does this when Haibara teases him (he can't be that oblivious).

I would say my character and everything did not change very much. Of course I got a lot of knowledge and greatly improved my social skills during that time, but my basic values and interests remained the same.
Let's take a look at 7 year old Shinichi - or at least at the few things that we know about him. How much did he change compared to his 17 year old self? Not much, right? So I expect the same for Ayumi.
As I said: There is a chance that Ayumi could change her personality while growing up. But at the same time, so could Haibara. Though, I expect both of their characters to remain similar to how they are now.

Ab dem 7. Lebensjahr werden Männer nicht mehr reifer, sondern wachsen nur noch. Das ist wissenschaftlich bewiesen
When I was 7, I enjoyed many things I now consider childish and I have come to enjoy many things I used to consider boring.

Might work with a friend. After all, if you feel like doing different things, you can just do so. There is no reason to be always together.
However, if you want to build a stable, permanent relationship, this won't work. 

I disagree. But there's no accountig for taste and Gosho certainly prefers more traditional relationships. (I guess that's why Manami filed for divorce

Well, finally something we agree on. I mean... you consider Ayumi growing up like Ran as an advantage for her relationship with Conan as well, right?

Finally;)
Yes, but she would only be a replacement for Ran. I don't think that would work out in the long run.

Do I really have to tell youse about the Westermarck effect again?

This sentence seems a bit messed up. Not sure what you wanted to say, but I never mentioned the Westermarck effect in my previous post. Since it couldn't be applied anyway.

Fixed. I need to proofread my posts....

You seem to forget something about the Westermarck effect: It only applies to children in regular contact with each other during the first few years of their lives.
According to what I read this includes only the first 5 years. Ayumi is already older than that, so the Westernmarck effect will not influence her affections towards Conan. (Though, it might affect her relationship to Genta and Mitsuhiko, if you believe the special to movie 12).

This effect will only have an influence on Shinichi x Ran - again, depending on how much contact they had. It would not prevent Haibara from developing feelings for Conan as well in future.

I honestly hadn't seen that. But I'm curious why this critical period would end at that age. I did some more research and it seems to indicate that while the first 6 or 7 years seem to be the most significant period, high exposure in later periods of childhood has a smiliar effect. Oddly enough, it's usually the females who will reject the males as mating partners.

[IHKF]

AyuCon all the way! ^^ *Slaps cards down on table* XD

[Yoshimi Kurosaki]

Conan x KID because I don't really care anyway since it's worded as Conan and Conan is 7. (There you go, Gin-chan. Shota for you.)

Now, I greatly support ShinRan, however. The helpless detective and his brazen bodyguard~ (Even though I think I have pictures for all of these and more...)

[Aokochan]

Conanxmyself
But as it is impossible...
Conanxhaibara
Shinichixran

[IHKF]

I don't understand why AyumixConan isn't more popular. It's kind of sad that such a cute couple mostly has closet fans.

There is a lot to like about it- and each one of the couples up there has their flaws, too. So what? They're 10 years apart. Point being?

Ran and Conan are ten years apart as well- and nobody would have a problem with them growing up to be together. So what if it was just them that knew he was Shinichi? It would be the same with AyuCon just reversed. (Yes, notice it says RanxCONAN not RanxSHINICHI. XD) Not to mention they don't have ALL THAT MUCH in common, as it is Ran has to put up with hearing him talk about Sherlock and cases and mystery novels all day long. At least Ayumi would ENJOY talking to him about that. (Not saying that they're the better couple- just saying that's a point that ShinRan lacks in that AyuCon has.)

With Haibara we have NO WAY of knowing her real age. First she says she's 84 then 18... there is no way to tell until Gosho gives an official age. All we know is that she's younger than Akemi. Besides that, every time he would be with her wouldn't he be reminded of the mistakes he had made as Shinichi? Wouldn't he be reminded that his life is a LIE? XD She's always challenging him, and if you watch "How I Met Your Mother" you'd know why that's bad. Ayumi at least would be supportive and just tell him when she feels something is a bad idea. (Once again, just stating a point that AiCon lacks in while AyuCon is good in.)

ConanxYourself.... oh go create a Mary-Sue. XD That IS a joke, right...?  ;D I personally think Ayumi would be better for him than a fangirl who'd just squeal and choke him to death with hugs. she genuinely cares for him (if anybody was actually SERIOUS about that... O_o).

ConanxAkemi... hmm.... let's see. He's not in Shinichi form.... so it's a seven-year-old with a woman in her... 20's? XD That's even worse than the 10 year age difference between Conan and Ran and Conan and Ayumi! lol

ConanxJodie..... ummm..... I don't see why people would thing of them as a couple besides it being a crack couple? XD

ConanxVermouth I've seen before... but as it is she's already older than Shinichi- how much older is she than CONAN?! I think a ten year age difference is much better than a 10+ age difference. XD

[Vylash]

I don't understand why people insist on reviving crap threads

[IHKF]

I don't understand why people insist on reviving crap threads

And that's an opinion. ^_^'

And I'm not the one who revived it, anyways. 

[vittor]

conan x jodie ALL THE WAY!

[Damar.N]

AiCon always!

[Wakarimashita]

I voted ConanxAyumi.  :-* 

[IHKF]

I voted ConanxAyumi.   

Yay! ^_^ FTW!