Detective Conan Files 793-795 Discussion Thread: Every Step You Take...

[aly_angelflight]

Spoiler:

Honestly, that last scene reminds me of Eisuke's introduction, and we know how that went.

[doublemoonlight]

Spoiler:

Honestly, that last scene reminds me of Eisuke's introduction, and we know how that went.

Spoiler:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  NOT SECOND  EISUKE!!!!!! I'LL HATE GISHO FOREVER IF HE ENDS UP LIKE HIM- you know dose his role and dissapears into thin air... I'll hate him!!!! 

[sstimson]

he was not cluless during this case... sure he was slower then Kudo but he was right on track in investigation ( after all he guessed corectly that Haruoka is a detective...)  and that responce... just dropps his intell level to Kogoro level... As I don't believe that a person can become more stupid in that short time I'd say he is faking it.

And that unfortunately says a lot. I believe this case is another example of why do they need Kudo
why in spoilers

Spoiler:

cell phone with a goodbye
a car exploding. ( I guessed wrong about it being a bomb, but I did that because suicides in DC are almost unheard of.) She either was blown up  or she set the fire and waited to be blown up. An investigation would have shown no bomb, so it would have been the later.
Simple police work and time would have solved this case. Kudo not needed. Also doing it this way would have possible kept some hurt of the news of who the bride turned out to be. This case was simple, too simple and yet the detective could not figure it out. No, he truly was clueless.

[doublemoonlight]

he was not cluless during this case... sure he was slower then Kudo but he was right on track in investigation ( after all he guessed corectly that Haruoka is a detective...)  and that responce... just dropps his intell level to Kogoro level... As I don't believe that a person can become more stupid in that short time I'd say he is faking it.

And that unfortunately says a lot. I believe this case is another example of why do they need Kudo
why in spoilers

Spoiler:

cell phone with a goodbye
a car exploding. ( I guessed wrong about it being a bomb, but I did that because suicides in DC are almost unheard of.) She either was blown up  or she set the fire and waited to be blown up. An investigation would have shown no bomb, so it would have been the later.
Simple police work and time would have solved this case. Kudo not needed. Also doing it this way would have possible kept some hurt of the news of who the bride turned out to be. This case was simple, too simple and yet the detective could not figure it out. No, he truly was clueless.

Spoiler:

he could figer it out if he wanted... didn't you get feeling that somehow he wasn't giving his best thought to the case? He is hiding something and tries to fool these guys so that he would not be suspected. ( not to mention how he easily avioded the hit from Kogoro's friend and said he did not like fighting...

[sstimson]

he was not cluless during this case... sure he was slower then Kudo but he was right on track in investigation ( after all he guessed corectly that Haruoka is a detective...)  and that responce... just dropps his intell level to Kogoro level... As I don't believe that a person can become more stupid in that short time I'd say he is faking it.

And that unfortunately says a lot. I believe this case is another example of why do they need Kudo
why in spoilers

Spoiler:

cell phone with a goodbye
a car exploding. ( I guessed wrong about it being a bomb, but I did that because suicides in DC are almost unheard of.) She either was blown up  or she set the fire and waited to be blown up. An investigation would have shown no bomb, so it would have been the later.
Simple police work and time would have solved this case. Kudo not needed. Also doing it this way would have possible kept some hurt of the news of who the bride turned out to be. This case was simple, too simple and yet the detective could not figure it out. No, he truly was clueless.

Spoiler:

he could figer it out if he wanted... didn't you get feeling that somehow he wasn't giving his best thought to the case? He is hiding something and tries to fool these guys so that he would not be suspected. ( not to mention how he easily avioded the hit from Kogoro's friend and said he did not like fighting...

but that begs a question. if that is so then why Conan's comment to suggest the other. why not start then and there with Conan knowing this guy is trouble convincing uncle to refuse the guys money. If you are right, Conan comment should have convey that. Something like " That guy is trouble". The current suggest something much much weaker.

there are three possiblilies

1) he is clueless ( I fall here)
2) he is faking and Conan does not know
3) he is faking and conan does know

2 seem to go againist the grain of Conan being super smart and close to a know it all
3 seem not to be the case because of such a weak comment
which leaves 1

[doublemoonlight]

let me remind you that this is Armou's first apperence and it is possible that Conan may not feel he is suscpious yet... After all he didn't felt people like Vermouth was suspicous during her first apperance ( pisco arc )... it was only later on as plot progesses he found her suspicious... Even Conan is super smart he is not that smart and Armou did not made his suscipition that obious to Conan or anyone like leokiko said

He 's that obvious, but at the same time, NOT THAT OBVIOUS.

... to people in-universe... but with background information he is suspicious and is potentional identity for Borburn...

[sstimson]

Big difference between the two. Vermouth in that appearance stayed in the background and did very little talking outside the BO.
So no real chance to learn anything about her.

this guy on the other hand is front and center. You can learn about a person from the words they use and the more  they use the more you can learn. We should know a lot about that guy which to me raises a major red flag. Gosho and IMO most writer introduce their bad characters like vermouth, and the background and hidden. I believe he talked enough for Conan to know what is up.

Spoiler:

Honestly, that last scene reminds me of Eisuke's introduction, and we know how that went.

Spoiler:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  NOT SECOND  EISUKE!!!!!! I'LL HATE GISHO FOREVER IF HE ENDS UP LIKE HIM- you know dose his role and dissapears into thin air... I'll hate him!!!! 

I hope you are prepared, because he likely to be very like that characters.

Lets look at his intro. Again up and front, not hiding again. Conan learns a lot about him.
same of the other two you mentioned. Do you see a pattern because I sure do.
Non dangerous characters up front and center, lots of speech
Dangerous characters hidden and back in the background very little talking
This guy fits the non dangerous model. Look for he to be like you know who

[GinRei]

1) is not  recurring yet.

Obvious statement is obvious.  He's been in one case.  And at the end of it, he becomes the apprentice of one of the main characters.  Therefore, it is 90% likely that he will be in any case that his sensei, Kogorou, is in.

2) Conan suggest he is another Kogorou as in mindless. If that is the case. Then He will either give up fast as he going to realize quickly that all Korogou want from him is leg work.( How long would you work for someone who has you do all the work and they take ALL the credit and you do not even get mentioned ).

Because Conan is so good at reading people, right?

3) He sounds like a student, so at best he be like a Sokono or a DB and be part of a case once and a while, (Note NOT EVERY CASE)

In what way does he sound like a student?  The part where he has his own detective agency?  The part where he also works as a waiter instead of going to school?  The part where he's 29, not 19?  Really, which part?

4) (part of #2) He might realize he be better on his own and vanish.

Only works if he's not there with a specific agenda, which he likely is.

6) He is the prefect character for a red herring. Note when and how he is introduced. He way too obvious for a good story ( for a bad one he might be great ).

Sera already fills the role of red herring, and he's only "too obvious" because it's been spelled out for you here.  The vast majority of fans will not get the Gundam connection, especially considering how old that particular Gundam series is.  And even when it's spelled out for you, you still insist that's not the case.  So, I guess it's not as obvious as you seem to want it to be?

IMO a good author of mysteries does not just put the killer for all to see with arrows pointing to him with the word killer on them, though he might do that with a fake / red herring. The good writer hide his clues better then that. Another example, you are in a pyramid. Do you take the wide and very open path ahead of you or do you look for the hidden door and a very narrow and twisted path?  In that example going down that wide path is almost a sure trap and death waiting. In a mystery story as well, I think it is best to search for the hidden clues that might takes several rereading to find, then to jump into an almost certain trap of the writer just giving you what you want and are looking for.

Bourbon hasn't been shown to kill anyone yet.  As far as "hidden clues", his name is the hidden clue.  But you refuse to accept that, just so you can argue.

That suggest to me he is clueless. I believe that Gosho would have done that part differetly if this detective was only play acting being clueless which means
this comment in this case would be incorrect

Good enough to disguise, not good enough to play dumb?

[Dus]

It is too obvious even if you don't know anything about Gundam. Bourbon (as in the drink) was also mentioned, and in quite a prominent manner as well.

[leokiko]

It is too obvious even if you don't know anything about Gundam. Bourbon (as in the drink) was also mentioned, and in quite a prominent manner as well.

Except that people that don't know the Okiya/Sera theories may think it's an red herring.

[sstimson]

3) He sounds like a student, so at best he be like a Sokono or a DB and be part of a case once and a while, (Note NOT EVERY CASE)

In what way does he sound like a student?  The part where he has his own detective agency?  The part where he also works as a waiter instead of going to school?  The part where he's 29, not 19?  Really, which part?[

In that he is planning on paying for his lessons and as he works part time, unless that is another lie, he needs money. He will need to gather enough money to pay for his lesson and then repeat. Also as far as the agency, that seems to be more like a hobby, something he does when he has the time.

6) He is the prefect character for a red herring. Note when and how he is introduced. He way too obvious for a good story ( for a bad one he might be great ).

This is still a valid point.

IMO a good author of mysteries does not just put the killer for all to see with arrows pointing to him with the word killer on them, though he might do that with a fake / red herring. The good writer hide his clues better then that. Another example, you are in a pyramid. Do you take the wide and very open path ahead of you or do you look for the hidden door and a very narrow and twisted path?  In that example going down that wide path is almost a sure trap and death waiting. In a mystery story as well, I think it is best to search for the hidden clues that might takes several rereading to find, then to jump into an almost certain trap of the writer just giving you what you want and are looking for.

Bourbon hasn't been shown to kill anyone yet.  As far as "hidden clues", his name is the hidden clue.  But you refuse to accept that, just so you can argue.

Maybe as I did elsewhere, I need to point something one to you. But first none of the the BO have been shown to kill anyone. They got someone else to kill the ghost captain. They left a bomb that Conan kick away. They killed Pisco off screen. Conan foiled a murder attempt by using sprinkers, and a soccer / football.

---edit--- They might have killed Akemi. ( I say might because of most member wear bulletproof vest. After all if Akai can be alive, why not Akemi)

Next look at Gosho presentation of news characters.
I start with Ran - Given lots of lines, Not in the background, as I would say Front row and center (Chapter 1 page 9)

Next Gin and Vodka - Give in the first meeting 8 lines, and trying to keep a low profile. They not give lots of lines until later in the story at blackmailing that guy and then then seem to be alone. Shinichi even with just those 8 lines, and body language, tells us they have the eyes of killers (Chapter 1 Page 23) I would call them wanting to be in the back roll and one of the corners.

Next Agasa - Again like Ran lots of lines and not hiding - Front Row center

Next Kogorou - Lots of lines and Not hiding ( Yes he was shown earlier, but I am look at when Conan meets them) another Front roll and center

Next Yoko - Not hiding, lots of lines - Front roll and center (Chapter 6 page 10)

Next Unknown named Detective (Chapter 15 page 10) more evidence of Kogorou "training" - was a one shot character

Next those Detective Boys - Not hiding and Lots of lines - front roll and center

Next Sokono (Chapter 40 page 9) Not hiding and lots of lines - front roll and center

Next Yukiko (Chapter 49 page 4) This one is interesting while she is at the start painted as a bad guy, the clues are there she is not.
She friendly and outgoing. She is not trying to hide and has a lot of lines. Front roll and center
I going to add his dad. And here at the start he does act like a bad guy, very little lines and hidden behind a mask.(remember he is a good guy though)(chapter 49 page 16), In the next chapter he starts with a lot of lines(remember this is stage craft. They know Conan is listening)
Starting to give hint of him being a good guy, but still here acting bad.

Next Heiji (Chapter 94 page 4) No question that he is not hiding. Without question, he is up front, and has a lot of lines - up front and very center seat

More examples are coming

My point is at the beginning with maybe Conan's Dad being the exception, you can tell the good from the bad. Look at how they are drawn, Conan's action with then, the number of lines and how they act. That waiter acts good, so bourbon (if he exist) he is not.

[Partsu]

What if he is Bourbon BUT will end up as good guy?
maybe his parents brought him up in BO and he can't get out?
Who says Bourbon has to be total Bad guy?

maybe Amuro wants to be Detective and lives normal good guys life unless order comes from BO and he does what he must to stay alive?

Who's with me?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Sorry to jump in the middle but...

Spoiler:

In that he is planning on paying for his lessons and as he works part time, unless that is another lie, he needs money. He will need to gather enough money to pay for his lesson and then repeat. Also as far as the agency, that seems to be more like a hobby, something he does when he has the time.

Spoiler:

Actually it's way more suspicious that Amuro can pay enough money to get Kogoro excited when he doesn't he doesn't have a formal agency and works part time at restaurants. Detectives in DC aren't shown to be rich unless famous, waitering is poor pay, and rent in Tokyo is very expensive. Where is Amuro coming up with this cash? Hint: Black Organization which has plenty to share for missions.

[leokiko]

What if he is Bourbon BUT will end up as good guy?
maybe his parents brought him up in BO and he can't get out?
Who says Bourbon has to be total Bad guy?

maybe Amuro wants to be Detective and lives normal good guys life unless order comes from BO and he does what he must to stay alive?



Who's with me?

He absolutely wants to kill Akai, and believes that only HIM CAN. Doesn't that make him the bad guy already?

[believer08]

He absolutely wants to kill Akai, and believes that only HIM CAN. Doesn't that make him the bad guy already?

You got a point there.