Ok I need to rant now (plot related)

[kkslider5552000]

first of all, I don't think Detective Conan's target audience (young boys) cares too much if a plot point isn't given enough clues or if they remember the foreshadowing or stuff as long as the end result is awesome. And, I dunno, has the hardcore internet fans in Japan been against that either? Because, I do honestly doubt (extreme personal bias, I admit) anyone other than a very small minority actually minded the Vermouth arc. Even most of the detective nerds here seemed to like it, despite the conclusion of the arc (and the arc as a whole?) seeming more like something for anime fans in general (I've seen a number of comparisons of it to Monster...not sure how accurate this is but I get the comparison I think).

I do think at this point shorter arc is for the best though. It should go quicker at this point, there's no excuse for 4+ year arcs.

my problem with it isn't necessarily that it isn't surprising though. The Akai and Okiya stuff is almost hilariously obvious who they are but I'm still interested where it's going because it is...interesting. And will go somewhere interesting. And Okiya being Bourbon would be kinda dumb most likely. Sera being Akai's sister is most likely, pointless, not that interesting (it sounds like one of those "oh yeah, we're related btw" lines they do as a joke in a lot of other manga) and could easily lead to hurting the quality of a few characters. The fact that arc conclusions are not only extremely rare but pratically the only time the plot matters for more than a couple episodes in a row just makes this really bad.

[sonoci]

I like to make up the most crazy impossible ideas for arcs so when the conclusion comes, no matter what it'll be awesome because it makes sense.

For instance, because of this thread, I've come to 'think of' Sera as not only Akai's sister and Bourbon, but also a complete maniac.

My "theory" (which is not a theory at all, is 0% possible, only for fun) is that Sera/Bourbon is a recruiter for the organization. She was surprised she didn't have to rough her brother up when he joined (she's never gotten a "no" - only those that say "yes" live after all). When he 'quit' she wasn't too happy. Hence why she wanted to find him...to beat the crap out of him before he was killed for quitting
Anokata has a job for her: do some investigating on the potential of 'the rival of Kid' Edogawa Conan. The Sherry thing? A ploy to catch Kir. Sera/Bourbon could care less about Sherry :V Sherry's a bonus in her recruit mission - as is finding her brother.

The "theory" above leads me to this:

Spoiler: I can't get this image out of my mind

Insane Sera = funnest thing to draw. 

[kkslider5552000]

we do need more insane characters in this series

I mean, we have black blood in the anime, so more madness would be fitting (I'm sure someone knows what series I'm referencing).

[sonoci]

we do need more insane characters in this series

I mean, we have black blood in the anime, so more madness would be fitting (I'm sure someone knows what series I'm referencing).

Agreed

Agreed

And yes, I know 

[skyechan]

we do need more insane characters in this series

I mean, we have black blood in the anime, so more madness would be fitting (I'm sure someone knows what series I'm referencing).

*now picturing Conan taking out Anokata using a massive punch of courage to the face*

[mangaluva]

we do need more insane characters in this series

I mean, we have black blood in the anime, so more madness would be fitting (I'm sure someone knows what series I'm referencing).

*now picturing Conan taking out Anokata using a massive punch of courage to the face*

That would be epic win.

[sonoci]

we do need more insane characters in this series

I mean, we have black blood in the anime, so more madness would be fitting (I'm sure someone knows what series I'm referencing).

*now picturing Conan taking out Anokata using a massive punch of courage to the face*

If only I knew what Anokata looked like, I'd totes draw that :V

[GinRei]

Spoiler: I can't get this image out of my mind

Sorry, but seeing that pose and expression all I could think of was, "Why so serious?"

[sonoci]

Spoiler: I can't get this image out of my mind

Sorry, but seeing that pose and expression all I could think of was, "Why so serious?"

No need for apologies. I may even use that and change the text bubble for laughs once Bourbon is really revealed



...in other words, it probably won't change for a while 

[kkslider5552000]

also if this series doesn't end in 2017, I'm blaming this arc for being a jerk

[Akonyl]

Personally I think she's Akai's sister AND Bourbon.  It'd be great to have her actually be on the other side.  I'd still like her as a character regardless, but man that would be cool to see.

this is basically my thoughts on it since it doesn't seem likely she's not Akai's sister, but it would also make the whole "bourbon hates akai" thing more interesting as well.

[sstimson]

I know a lot of people see my opinions as crazy. But here they are anyway.

Opinion #1. If Dc is becoming so predictable that all the 'clues' are completely true and there no red herrings, then Gosho just need to end it and end it fast. IMO a mystery series should not be setup so the reader see the ending. Mystery series need twist and turn to keep the reader guessing. IMO the farther the reader is from the true ending where they are saying I did not see that coming, the better the writer.

Opinion #2. As Gosho has sets up characters to look like bad guys when there they are good and Vice Vera, I am hoping for that here. I would like to see Sera become a another short time character and become completely unimportant to the main plot. I would like to see Bourbon be nothing more then a loyalty test for Kir. I would like to see Scar Akai be Akai. I want twist and turns then none or very few see coming. After all without them the series begins what Tvtropes call Adaptation Decay only in this case it is more like jumping the shark. What I mean is I do not want to see a point in DC where it decays to the point where as everything is now known and  there is no more reason to watch but to see what you know will happen, happen. I truly hope Dc NEVER reaches this point

Opinion #3. The way Dc seems to be written I would say we really do not have story arcs. It is more like every now and then a bit piece is placed in the main plot. Some might see these parts as arcs, but to me an arc is a part of ALL episodes that part is in and is continuous. DC can go several cases or episodes without a piece being put in. It is more  like a time line in the background with random cases placed in front. And yes, these random cases sometimes mentioned earlier cases, but that is rare and I can think of at max four places where that happened. If Gosha wanted to he could remove all the random cases and we would have a very short story.I am glad he uses more it seem the scaffold method then the story arc one.

[Kor]

Opinion #1. If Dc is becoming so predictable that all the 'clues' are completely true and there no red herrings, then Gosho just need to end it and end it fast. IMO a mystery series should not be setup so the reader see the ending. Mystery series need twist and turn to keep the reader guessing. IMO the farther the reader is from the true ending where they are saying I did not see that coming, the better the writer.

In the end it would be revealed that Ayumi is a vampire, Genta is an alien, Ran is a zombie, Conan is a wizard, Mitsuhiko is a werewolf, Haibara is the Nostalgia Critic and Kogoro is a robot.
You wouldn't see "that" coming, but still this is the most idiotic thing ever. A writer shouldn't add a twist out of nothing just for the sake of having a twist and make the reader go "WHAT?". That's actually bad writing.

Also, the boss is a mouse called Bob.

[sstimson]

Opinion #1. If Dc is becoming so predictable that all the 'clues' are completely true and there no red herrings, then Gosho just need to end it and end it fast. IMO a mystery series should not be setup so the reader see the ending. Mystery series need twist and turn to keep the reader guessing. IMO the farther the reader is from the true ending where they are saying I did not see that coming, the better the writer.

In the end it would be revealed that Ayumi is a vampire, Genta is an alien, Ran is a zombie, Conan is a wizard, Mitsuhiko is a werewolf, Haibara is the Nostalgia Critic and Kogoro is a robot.
You wouldn't see "that" coming, but still this is the most idiotic thing ever. A writer shouldn't add a twist out of nothing just for the sake of having a twist and make the reader go "WHAT?". That's actually bad writing.

Also, the boss is a mouse called Bob.

The above might be ok if

We slowly move the camera back. The curtain comes down. Then our case of characters come out in costume.
Conan: We thank you for watching "Detective Conan" series of plays. The Detective Conan players hope you enjoyed yourself and you had a good time. Please tell your friends. And come again.
Then the cast takes their bows and the MC comes on the stage. He said"Have a safe Trick or Treat. And Good night.
Then the theater empties.

My point is this murder mystery writers are always trying their best to keep their reader from saying on page one the Butler did it, and be right! Agreed with your point with this BUT. It the twist and turns are done correctly and in context, they should make the writing better.
I mean is there a point to reading a book if after the first chapters, you know what is going to happen and how it will end? What is the difference between that and jumping to read the last chapter?

[sonoci]

@sstimson: As a sort of part time writer, I think you have a bit of a mixed opinion going on here.

It may seem bad to be predictable, especially in a mystery series, but in reality you actually kind of WANT a reader to have an idea on what's going on. You want the reader to get involved, to guess what's going to happen, to see the foreshadowing and clues...ESPECIALLY in a mystery series. That's part of the reason mysteries are the genre they are: they, almost significantly moreso than other genres, get the reader to be involved, to think, to deduce.

If a twist were thrown in that literally no one saw coming, that would be one without a hint, and IMO THAT would be jumping the shark. In short, it's not fair to the reader to just pull things out of nowhere for the sake of a "twist". That is not good writing. Good writing is when the hints are there, abundant enough that people like Chekhov can make the right conclusions, but scarce enough that the general audience only has a vague idea.

In other words, I think Gosho is still doing alright. ...that is, if Sera turns out to be Bourbon. If she's JUST Akai's sister, that would actually be "bad" writing (not necessarily bad, but definitely lower quality than what we've seen from Gosho before)

EDIT:

...Haibara is the Nostalgia Critic...

This...


This...it needs to happen...