RAVEN CHASER afterschock!!

[j_o_s_h_u_a_0_8]

for me vermouth is like kaitou kid. Conan wants to defeat them but I guess there is a friendship between them. hehe.

and i think vermouth will play a big role (maybe a redeemer of conan) if gin and conan will meet face to face.

about ran? i can't blame her. that's "her" from the start right?

[Introuble]

I'm still holding out that my theory is true, which is...

Spoiler:

Sharon Vineyard was originally brought on by the CIA to infiltrate the Black Org and ultimately was thought to have defected. This information was kept top-secret (thus why the FBI doesn't know about it), and while Vermouth actually has been involved in a lot of the Org's activity, it can be explained as part of the cover for the Organization. In the end, it can be revealed that she was thought to be a traitor by the CIA, when really she was just doing what it took to gain absolute trust from her fellow members (this also goes into Gin's 'sense' that something's up with her). She can be revealed just in time to save Haibara from Gin or something and bam, everybody wins.

Some people may say, "Oh, but she's helped kill people (in Japan, especially)." The sad thing is that the CIA is willing--under their government cover--to do away with anyone that will further their objectives (especially foreigners).

To me, that's the ideal closure for the character. I put it in spoiler tags simply because the last time I posted something similar, someone accused me of spoiling the future of the series.

Spoiler:

Wow!
You know I never really noticed that...
Jd's theory is very possible hell I think Jd just read Gosho's mind.
There are many points which support his theory some of which are....

- Vermouth easily became suspicious of Kir when she used that CIA phrase in the Black Impact.
( So she is familiar with the phrase even Gin didn't notice that )
- She's from America ( CIA = America )
- She used the same CIA lie detecting method to that boy who got Kir injured

[caribou]

I'm still holding out that my theory is true, which is...

Spoiler:

Sharon Vineyard was originally brought on by the CIA to infiltrate the Black Org and ultimately was thought to have defected. This information was kept top-secret (thus why the FBI doesn't know about it), and while Vermouth actually has been involved in a lot of the Org's activity, it can be explained as part of the cover for the Organization. In the end, it can be revealed that she was thought to be a traitor by the CIA, when really she was just doing what it took to gain absolute trust from her fellow members (this also goes into Gin's 'sense' that something's up with her). She can be revealed just in time to save Haibara from Gin or something and bam, everybody wins.

Some people may say, "Oh, but she's helped kill people (in Japan, especially)." The sad thing is that the CIA is willing--under their government cover--to do away with anyone that will further their objectives (especially foreigners).

you know, I think that theory is very possible, but I don't particularly like it.
(i'll put the next bit in spoiler tags since it talks about Jd's spoiler-ed theory.)

Spoiler:

so far, the world of detective conan is pretty much divided between good and bad, the BO versus everyone else. but Vermouth is the only anomaly in this situation so far, and I'd rather it be that way. If she's another CIA agent, then that reinforces the divide again: everyone in BO is bad, everyone in FBI/CIA is good. I think Vermouth is the most human and realistic character of the lot and I like her for that. I'd like to think that she's not completely angelic, and she was probably attracted to the BO at first, but she got in too deep and now she wants out. I feel like, she doesn't want to be 'saved' from the BO - then she'll have to join the 'good' side, and I don't think she's one to take sides (cares more about her own life). she needs someone to destroy the BO completely so she can be freed.

[Mizzicco]

I'm still holding out that my theory is true, which is...

Spoiler:

Sharon Vineyard was originally brought on by the CIA to infiltrate the Black Org and ultimately was thought to have defected. This information was kept top-secret (thus why the FBI doesn't know about it), and while Vermouth actually has been involved in a lot of the Org's activity, it can be explained as part of the cover for the Organization. In the end, it can be revealed that she was thought to be a traitor by the CIA, when really she was just doing what it took to gain absolute trust from her fellow members (this also goes into Gin's 'sense' that something's up with her). She can be revealed just in time to save Haibara from Gin or something and bam, everybody wins.

Some people may say, "Oh, but she's helped kill people (in Japan, especially)." The sad thing is that the CIA is willing--under their government cover--to do away with anyone that will further their objectives (especially foreigners).

you know, I think that theory is very possible, but I don't particularly like it.
(i'll put the next bit in spoiler tags since it talks about Jd's spoiler-ed theory.)

Spoiler:

so far, the world of detective conan is pretty much divided between good and bad, the BO versus everyone else. but Vermouth is the only anomaly in this situation so far, and I'd rather it be that way. If she's another CIA agent, then that reinforces the divide again: everyone in BO is bad, everyone in FBI/CIA is good. I think Vermouth is the most human and realistic character of the lot and I like her for that. I'd like to think that she's not completely angelic, and she was probably attracted to the BO at first, but she got in too deep and now she wants out. I feel like, she doesn't want to be 'saved' from the BO - then she'll have to join the 'good' side, and I don't think she's one to take sides (cares more about her own life). she needs someone to destroy the BO completely so she can be freed.

actually, this theory can't work because if vermouth is CIA, why does she "suspect" kir as CIA but does not know, normally, they would send a member to backup , so why was vermouth not informed?

Maybe when she knocked on the bike speedometer glass, it was some kind of sign between the CIA agents to know who is going undercover with them since u know that its hard to contact the good side when ur with the BO (theyre on ur ass the whole time) but i dont rly think about it that much, so that theory isnt rly thoroghly thought out by me...

[Jd-]

I'm still holding out that my theory is true, which is...

Spoiler:

Sharon Vineyard was originally brought on by the CIA to infiltrate the Black Org and ultimately was thought to have defected. This information was kept top-secret (thus why the FBI doesn't know about it), and while Vermouth actually has been involved in a lot of the Org's activity, it can be explained as part of the cover for the Organization. In the end, it can be revealed that she was thought to be a traitor by the CIA, when really she was just doing what it took to gain absolute trust from her fellow members (this also goes into Gin's 'sense' that something's up with her). She can be revealed just in time to save Haibara from Gin or something and bam, everybody wins.

Some people may say, "Oh, but she's helped kill people (in Japan, especially)." The sad thing is that the CIA is willing--under their government cover--to do away with anyone that will further their objectives (especially foreigners).

you know, I think that theory is very possible, but I don't particularly like it.
(i'll put the next bit in spoiler tags since it talks about Jd's spoiler-ed theory.)

Spoiler:

so far, the world of detective conan is pretty much divided between good and bad, the BO versus everyone else. but Vermouth is the only anomaly in this situation so far, and I'd rather it be that way. If she's another CIA agent, then that reinforces the divide again: everyone in BO is bad, everyone in FBI/CIA is good. I think Vermouth is the most human and realistic character of the lot and I like her for that. I'd like to think that she's not completely angelic, and she was probably attracted to the BO at first, but she got in too deep and now she wants out. I feel like, she doesn't want to be 'saved' from the BO - then she'll have to join the 'good' side, and I don't think she's one to take sides (cares more about her own life). she needs someone to destroy the BO completely so she can be freed.

actually, this theory can't work because if vermouth is CIA, why does she "suspect" kir as CIA but does not know, normally, they would send a member to backup , so why was vermouth not informed?

I don't know why we would say she wouldn't know, though. Isn't it more like she wouldn't tell that to the Organization... fooooooor pretty good reasons? "Oh yeah, where'd you hear that?" Isn't it more likely for her, still technically being a "good guy," to not want to directly interfere with further CIA plants unless they directly affected her own cover? That's the mentality I'd take, anyway~

[Tenken]

Wow! Movie 13 -The Raven Chaser - is phenomenal!!
Great plot,
great music (can someone tell me the names of the soundtracks?)
great confrontations!!!!!!

Ran and Irish's karate dual was amazing!  
Probably the first time Ran was beaten at karate!?

Conan's escape was miraculous!

I was very touched by Irish's final moment!

10/10 rating!

[Found]

The ending theme is Puzzle by Mai Kuraki. TheQuyen has a download link in her thread.

[Mizzicco]

I didn't find PUZZLE very nice.... Did you?

[kkslider5552000]

I didn't find PUZZLE very nice.... Did you?

the chorus was great, but the other parts kinda felt like a much worse version of Revive.

[Tenken]

The ending theme is Puzzle by Mai Kuraki. TheQuyen has a download link in her thread.

Thanks   But I was asking about the soundtrack that played throughout the movie and in the final confrontation

Oh, I have a question about the movie as well:  Gin needed that memory card, right? So why did he shoot Irish? He would lose the memory card.

[ranger]

The ending theme is Puzzle by Mai Kuraki. TheQuyen has a download link in her thread.

Thanks   But I was asking about the soundtrack that played throughout the movie and in the final confrontation

Oh, I have a question about the movie as well:  Gin needed that memory card, right? So why did he shoot Irish? He would lose the memory card.

I dont think Gin "needed" the memory card, he needed it so no one other than the Black-Org can see it...so he decided to shoot a hole through it, killing Irish in the process so he won't blab.  Two birds with one stone.  Basic B-Org tactics, my dear Tenken.

[Mizzicco]

The ending theme is Puzzle by Mai Kuraki. TheQuyen has a download link in her thread.

Thanks   But I was asking about the soundtrack that played throughout the movie and in the final confrontation

Oh, I have a question about the movie as well:  Gin needed that memory card, right? So why did he shoot Irish? He would lose the memory card.

He doesn't want the memory card. He decided that if he took it and kept it maybe another member of the BO would have it and he/she wuld turn out to be a "rat" as well, so he couldn't risk the BO being known. That's what I think anyway.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

He doesn't want the memory card. He decided that if he took it and kept it maybe another member of the BO would have it and he/she would turn out to be a "rat" as well, so he couldn't risk the BO being known. That's what I think anyway.

Gin's mission was to make sure it didn't fall into police hands. Gin would have fulfilled his mission by either retrieving it intact or destroying it. I think the reason Gin had Irish show it to him intact rather than order Irish destroy in as soon as he could was so that Gin could verify it was the correct memory card. The reason Gin decided to take both Irish and the card out at the same time so that he could kill two birds with one stone: Irish, who would have been captured by the police, was silenced and the information on the card was kept secret from the police.

[Tenken]

Conan's reasoning that chief Matsumoto (hope I got his name right) must be Irish "because of difference in body structure" is not convincing.  Vermouth can totally disguise as a BIGGER person.  She's just can't disguise as a SMALLER person.

[Mizzicco]

I'm still holding out that my theory is true, which is...

Spoiler:

Sharon Vineyard was originally brought on by the CIA to infiltrate the Black Org and ultimately was thought to have defected. This information was kept top-secret (thus why the FBI doesn't know about it), and while Vermouth actually has been involved in a lot of the Org's activity, it can be explained as part of the cover for the Organization. In the end, it can be revealed that she was thought to be a traitor by the CIA, when really she was just doing what it took to gain absolute trust from her fellow members (this also goes into Gin's 'sense' that something's up with her). She can be revealed just in time to save Haibara from Gin or something and bam, everybody wins.

Some people may say, "Oh, but she's helped kill people (in Japan, especially)." The sad thing is that the CIA is willing--under their government cover--to do away with anyone that will further their objectives (especially foreigners).

you know, I think that theory is very possible, but I don't particularly like it.
(i'll put the next bit in spoiler tags since it talks about Jd's spoiler-ed theory.)

Spoiler:

so far, the world of detective conan is pretty much divided between good and bad, the BO versus everyone else. but Vermouth is the only anomaly in this situation so far, and I'd rather it be that way. If she's another CIA agent, then that reinforces the divide again: everyone in BO is bad, everyone in FBI/CIA is good. I think Vermouth is the most human and realistic character of the lot and I like her for that. I'd like to think that she's not completely angelic, and she was probably attracted to the BO at first, but she got in too deep and now she wants out. I feel like, she doesn't want to be 'saved' from the BO - then she'll have to join the 'good' side, and I don't think she's one to take sides (cares more about her own life). she needs someone to destroy the BO completely so she can be freed.

actually, this theory can't work because if vermouth is CIA, why does she "suspect" kir as CIA but does not know, normally, they would send a member to backup , so why was vermouth not informed?

I don't know why we would say she wouldn't know, though. Isn't it more like she wouldn't tell that to the Organization... fooooooor pretty good reasons? "Oh yeah, where'd you hear that?" Isn't it more likely for her, still technically being a "good guy," to not want to directly interfere with further CIA plants unless they directly affected her own cover? That's the mentality I'd take, anyway~

The FBI was trying to capture her, and she was going to kill them.

also, she killed jodie's father to get his FBI document, why did she do that?

Jodie's father is still alive. He is actually James Black.

Even I can't believe that.