Files 771-774 Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes,

[Kor]

Spoiler:

Calvados, he's still alive!

^what I thought as well

[kholoudsafir]

Spoiler:

This may sound boring, but is not it a possibility that the sniper is just from the police, since Conan said he would contact the police to evacuate people from the cafe, so may be they sent a sniper as well.

[User 4869]

Spoiler:

This may sound boring, but is not it a possibility that the sniper is just from the police, since Conan said he would contact the police to evacuate people from the cafe, so may be they sent a sniper as well.

Spoiler:

Will "normal" police able to get that gun in no time?
and did they did not know the man has bombs around his body (May be they didn't, I didn't read closely) shoot him down could trigger the bomb.

[JohnTitor]

Spoiler:

hey, guys... couldn't it be more possible if the sniper is one of the "Green Caps" thingies? That green-bird-something-guy's friend?

[mysterygirl]

I haven't seen the spoilers for 773, yet, but to answer in a belated way.  

But why Sawaguri would kill her sister? It looks like he really loved her, even if she was such a...eee...nasty woman who thinks that everybody's annoying. I really don't know why he would go to the Mouri's agency with bombs and gun, if he killed Miku. Just to know who's elephant, rat and fox? As a murderer who hid in Miku's bathroom, he should have know who came to Miku, because he would have recognized voices, I guess.
About Tamami. Hmm... That's quite probable, but would it be so terrifying if Miku felt asleep during the conversation? Tamami behad as if she saw something scary. I think it could be dead body, but I can't find explanation why she didn't call police. Other reason for being so scared is her stomach problems, but it's a bit...unsual. XD
I still think that Nihei's the culprit. Btw, I found another proof that the murderer is an elephant. Elephant is the only person who came to Miku with wet hair. Wouldn't it be easier if one suspect said - "I was the one who came to her right after bath, so I'm elephant". Plus, in this file everybody thinks that the culprit is rat, so this way elephant would be safe. Why? Nobody wanted to admit it, because elephant is the murderer. Other proof for Nihei:
+ she's the only one with distorted page in the book (explanation that the whole book would be wet is silly)
+ she's the only one who said that Miku's slippers were WARM (how she knows it?)
I dunno Japanese, so I can't say anything about nicknames, but I guess this theory is quite probable anyway.

The way Sawaguri was posing in that picture with tears, in the newspaper, looked a bit fake to me. >__o  How should I put it? It seems very suspicious. Another thing is that Miku only knows these three people from the internet (/social network), and not so much in real life. It was only in real life, in person, that they were able to see the true side of Miku's personality.

Sawaguri knows his sister much better than those three women. He could've acculmilated hatred for his sister over the years. It's true that if he hid in the bathroom, he might've been able to recognize the voice, but if you ever spent time hearing Japanese women speak, their softening of voices at certain tones could make the voices sound a bit similar. (At least, to me.)

You made fine counter points and I like your theory very much.  

Now, to check out the spoilers and see how both of us were close, or far, as to who it is. (I will edit at the bottom of this post after seeing these spoilers.)  

Heiji is ALWAYS necessary.

Hahaha..  

Now, after seeing these pics and spoilers...

Spoiler:

The last panel of the final page definitely confirms, as some of you have already mentioned before,...

ã

[RedPoppy]

The way Sawaguri was posing in that picture with tears, in the newspaper, looked a bit fake to me. >__o  How should I put it? It seems very suspicious. Another thing is that Miku only knows these three people from the internet (/social network), and not so much in real life. It was only in real life, in person, that they were able to see the true side of Miku's personality.

Sawaguri knows his sister much better than those three women. He could've acculmilated hatred for his sister over the years. It's true that if he hid in the bathroom, he might've been able to recognize the voice, but if you ever spent time hearing Japanese women speak, their softening of voices at certain tones could make the voices sound a bit similar. (At least, to me.)

You made fine counter points and I like your theory very much.

About Isao and his "fake" picture. Basing on his personality, he doesn't seem to be a man who hides his emotions. He's impulsive, doesn't think about consequences when the situation is intense, so it's noting suspicious that he cried after his sister's death. Besides, as I said, he really had to love Miku if he was so depressed that he wanted to take revenge on real murderer and then killed himself. I don't think he would make a lot of trouble if he doesn't love his sister. I mean, if it was about some other motive - for example, he wanted to know who's rat, because this person stole something and he wanted to get it back or saw something she shouldn't have seen - as logical person he would just come do Mouri, ask him to solve the case. After getting the answer he would killed that person, staying in the shadow and go abroad. For example!

Hmm... You think that Miku doesn't know these three women too much in real life. Of course, they're friends who met via SNS, but it doesn't mean they didn't meet a lot in reality. It looks like the murderer hid in the Miku's bathroom till Isao came and then she escaped. She couldn't predict Isao's behaviour if she didn't know a bit about him - that he's impulsive. So she knows him a lot and she must've met with Miku a lot. Besides, Internet is something fantastic, if you don't want to talk with somebody, you disconnect. Miku was really annoyed with all the people she knew, because she met them a lot and she knew them pretty well (so she could give them nicknames). She simply couldn't "disconnect" when they had some bussiness with her and that's why she didn't like them. Other thing, the murderer must've known Miku's true personality, if she wanted to kill her. I guess the motive will be something like "She was just a horrible person/she stole my novel/she blackmailed me etc." Miku was a mean person, so I bet it was something like that.

[Abs.]

CORRECTION

Miku-san's hair hadn't dried yet... Not the elephant's

[sonoci]

Just looked over the Chinese file

Spoiler: Thoughts on imagery in 773

Basically it seems that their animals were just explained. However, I personally don't really think that the rat did it at all. In the translation of the last file there was nothing in Miku's posts that specifically said "Hey the rat's killing me" or even a dying message pointing to the rat. I think one thing in this case is realizing that the rat is a ruse: it's another one of the women who did it (I'm still going for Nihei)

Moving on, I personally liked Sera's decisions in this. I mean...sure, it's not all 'Thou shall not allow people to die' but we have a lot of people like that on Team Conan anyway (not to mention after Ran saves the guy she says something to Sera that will probably change her into a 'Thou shall not allow people to die' type anyway ) They were pretty rational too: I mean...how exactly can they stop the guy other than knocking him out/killing him? His rash nature makes 'talking him out of it' seem very unlikely. The decision to make him bend down into the sniper view even seems like something an 'early Haibara' would do and it's almost nostalgic in a way.

Just my opinion

[mysterygirl]

About Isao and his "fake" picture. Basing on his personality, he doesn't seem to be a man who hides his emotions. He's impulsive, doesn't think about consequences when the situation is intense, so it's noting suspicious that he cried after his sister's death. Besides, as I said, he really had to love Miku if he was so depressed that he wanted to take revenge on real murderer and then killed himself. I don't think he would make a lot of trouble if he doesn't love his sister. I mean, if it was about some other motive - for example, he wanted to know who's rat, because this person stole something and he wanted to get it back or saw something she shouldn't have seen - as logical person he would just come do Mouri, ask him to solve the case. After getting the answer he would killed that person, staying in the shadow and go abroad. For example!

Spoiler:

That would make an unexpected twist for some people in that room though, right?  Everyone expects the culprit to be the rat, elephant, or the dog based on what's on Sawaguri's social network account. Just because this guy has an impulsive personality (that appears to be honest) of the tiger should mean he's the least suspectable guy.  >___>  Hmm..., but not enough in my book.  

I can understand the scenario of an ultra-depressed brother who longs for his killer's death and in the midst of it all, has nothing else left to live for. Yet, it just sounds so typical and expected of the case to end up as if that was so.

I find it strange that the info of the three animals/suspects could've been given to the police and other detectives at most a day after the case. But, there's been some time gap, which is odd. Then suddenly, out of the blue, here he is.  

Is he really a logical person? I have to wonder.... I think he's half-way logical and not quite there either.  A real "Japanese warbler" nature is to talk but not be seen.  So, this is what I find interesting if he ends up being someone who's all talk, but hiding some kind of motive.

Hmm... You think that Miku doesn't know these three women too much in real life. Of course, they're friends who met via SNS, but it doesn't mean they didn't meet a lot in reality. It looks like the murderer hid in the Miku's bathroom till Isao came and then she escaped. She couldn't predict Isao's behaviour if she didn't know a bit about him - that he's impulsive. So she knows him a lot and she must've met with Miku a lot. Besides, Internet is something fantastic, if you don't want to talk with somebody, you disconnect. Miku was really annoyed with all the people she knew, because she met them a lot and she knew them pretty well (so she could give them nicknames). She simply couldn't "disconnect" when they had some bussiness with her and that's why she didn't like them. Other thing, the murderer must've known Miku's true personality, if she wanted to kill her. I guess the motive will be something like "She was just a horrible person/she stole my novel/she blackmailed me etc." Miku was a mean person, so I bet it was something like that.

Spoiler:

Well, people could still know a lot about other people via the internet. It all depends on how much the user inputs their own daily life on the net. Some people might not be so honest on the internet as much as they are in real life.  As Miku's brother, Sawaguri should definitely know her better than anyone else.  

(Even my Facebook doesn't show much about my personal life. I haven't used it in 2 years now. >.>)

If Miku did meet the three women a few times in real life, why are they now asking for her autograph?  o__o

CORRECTION

Miku-san's hair hadn't dried yet... Not the elephant's

Thank you!  Now, this stimulates the perspectives a bit more. Mwhehehe..

[JohnTitor]

Spoiler:

Personal opinion, guys: I hate Ran in this chapter, and the opposite for Sera. The problem with shonen manga is that the main guys are always righteous, it's starting to smell like expired milk. Even heroes have to kill someday. If it's for greater good, why not? And he's a villain anyway! Well... but it also moves the story into a more interesting stage, so I think that's okay. Now how would Conan or anyone save them all? Since Ran said a very cheesy quote about Shinichi, Conan will surely turn his brain around to find a clear solution... and I'm betting it will be about something "righteous" again. But, yeah, God's with the righteous people, so, yeah...

[sonoci]

Spoiler:

Personal opinion, guys: I hate Ran in this chapter, and the opposite for Sera. The problem with shonen manga is that the main guys are always righteous, it's starting to smell like expired milk. Even heroes have to kill someday. If it's for greater good, why not? And he's a villain anyway! Well... but it also moves the story into a more interesting stage, so I think that's okay. Now how would Conan or anyone save them all? Since Ran said a very cheesy quote about Shinichi, Conan will surely turn his brain around to find a clear solution... and I'm betting it will be about something "righteous" again. But, yeah, God's with the righteous people, so, yeah...

Spoiler:

I have to agree with you. I tried to avoid bringing Ran up into my post before, but yeah...

I can understand a few characters being righteous. Okay, whatever, it's a character trait, but with DC that's pretty much everybody but the BO. That's part of the reason I like Ai and now Sera: they were/are (respectively) different - somewhere closer to the middle. I'm hoping Sera/Ai eventually confronts Shinichi on this topic, actually. It'd be interesting to see. There was a small one with Heiji and him but that was a while back and it wasn't much of a conversation. Something - especially from Ai - like "What are you planning to do once you've cornered Gin? Don't you realize it yet: he's the type that won't give up until he's dead...kind of like you. A jail cell won't hold him long. ...You know that, don't you?" ...or...something.

I can understand not wanting people to die - even villains/people you hate - but it's another thing when other people's lives including your own are on the line :/

[randompi314159]

Spoiler:

Personal opinion, guys: I hate Ran in this chapter, and the opposite for Sera. The problem with shonen manga is that the main guys are always righteous, it's starting to smell like expired milk. Even heroes have to kill someday. If it's for greater good, why not? And he's a villain anyway! Well... but it also moves the story into a more interesting stage, so I think that's okay. Now how would Conan or anyone save them all? Since Ran said a very cheesy quote about Shinichi, Conan will surely turn his brain around to find a clear solution... and I'm betting it will be about something "righteous" again. But, yeah, God's with the righteous people, so, yeah...

Spoiler:

I have to agree with you. I tried to avoid bringing Ran up into my post before, but yeah...

I can understand a few characters being righteous. Okay, whatever, it's a character trait, but with DC that's pretty much everybody but the BO. That's part of the reason I like Ai and now Sera: they were/are (respectively) different - somewhere closer to the middle. I'm hoping Sera/Ai eventually confronts Shinichi on this topic, actually. It'd be interesting to see. There was a small one with Heiji and him but that was a while back and it wasn't much of a conversation. Something - especially from Ai - like "What are you planning to do once you've cornered Gin? Don't you realize it yet: he's the type that won't give up until he's dead...kind of like you. A jail cell won't hold him long. ...You know that, don't you?" ...or...something.

I can understand not wanting people to die - even villains/people you hate - but it's another thing when other people's lives including your own are on the line :/

Spoiler:

Not everyone in the DC manga shows such righteousness it's most seen in Ran and Conan/Shinichi, and the shown police officers as it's their job duties, etc. I see it as how each of their respected "love," (not their ShinRan relationship, but individually),  for others is. They, but more specifically Ran in this case, treat others before putting regards for themselves.

And as for the Haibara confronting Conan/Shinichi about what will he do when he corners Gin/Anokata, I think it'll give him some needed conflict to develop more. Reminds me of Avatar the Last Airbender, but I have a feeling that either someone else will end up killing Gin or Conan will end up merely knocking out Gin to send him to jail.

[Misztina]

Spoiler:

They have to be role models, so of they are righteous. Yes, a real life character would be someone like Sera, but in my opinion, if the guy would have been killed by the sniper it would haave been very disappointing. DC is all about redemption, giving everyone a second chance oooor give them enough time in jail to think about what they have done.
In Death Note it was shown and more or less proven that anonimously killing of people would decrease the number of crime by 80%. But DC and many other shounens try to show that there is another way, it is the harder way to stay righteous, have respect towards any human's life. The easiest way is to just kill off the murderer, what requires brain and heart is to save evyerone's life. Shinichi has both and that's why I love him so much. <3 I still consider "Is a reason neccessary?" the best Shinichi quotes of all.

And Ran, probably because of this case too, trusts Shinichi in this matter and she believes in him and his ideas. This gives her courage and comfort in the cruel, real life. And even if the murderer would die, at least she knows that Shinichi tried everything in order to save him. Because the murderer is human too.
God.... I love DC so much. <3

[randompi314159]

^, pretty much my sentiments as well.

[Abs.]

Spoiler: 773

Ran gets character development +0.005 in this file