Files 771-774 Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes,

[GinRei]

So, since the previous case started with Ran and Sonoko talking about Ran's "answer", and wasn't resolved, and now "Shinichi appears" for the second case in a row after solving the previous one...

Either Ran's going to think Shinichi likes Sera (appearing so often right after Sera appears when he's usually off the radar), or she might actually be proactive.

But probably not.

[sonoci]

In regards to the case, I found something weird. (at least to me)

Spoiler:

Why does Nihei (glasses) say "Oh?  When I went to her room, her slippers were there and they were neither wet nor warm…" I can understand wet, but how would she know they were warm? Not sure what it would mean, but I'm suspicious of her now.

[Katty008]

Yeah, the slippers thing is definitely important. Maybe the wet slippers actually belonged to the one who had just come from the bath, and for some uber complicated reason musical slippers was required for the murder to work.

[Yukimi]

The only thing I don't think Sera is Borubon (even thouhg I agree she is probably Akai's sister) is that as someone has mentioned, it makes the whole revealing Shinichi is alive and it's in contadct with Agasa, Conan, Ran and comnpany kinda suicidal. There's one solution for this problem... that Bourbon (=Sera) is so concerned to caught his brother, not beliving in hsi death, and thinks Conan (one of the last people to have contact with his brother) is the way to get to him and won't risk jeopardizing Conan-Shinishi' situation.

Still, this is a shonen, I don't think Gosho is going to make Coinan so stupid as to expose himself and trust so easily somoene who's BO... probably... The other reason has been pointed out already, if Okiya is akai and that's why Coann trusted him so easily nad why Ai had a reaction to him... and he had to know Bourbon was after him and knew the appearance of Bourbon, why didn't he tell Conan.

There's a third possibility here that' kinda unlikely... that Coanna is risking everything to end with the BO because he know Sera is related to them because Akai or Okiya told him... atill this is extremely unlikely.

About the nicknames i woulkd have though it would be because of behaviours but HADA's explanantion makes perfect sense and then the explanation of someone hiding in the bathroom, the dedicatory page perhaps pasted in anopther book or moisted from someone laying with their head on it for a long while make points to consider. If you add why the other woman knew how the slippers were... I think the resolution is going to be cool.

It hasn't been hinted much in this case but as someone pointed out, the last case SOnoko told Ran to answer Shinichi so, as this case is continuation of the last one and Shinichi appeared again, who knows?

[skdc8595]

What if it would just end up a normal case but let just hope that this case would lead to something BIG.

And if Conan always use Shinichi, he would just end up getting himself get killed because what if someone inside the agency has a connection to the BO. And if not, I think it's pretty impossible for someone to close their mouth about a participation of a high school detective who was thought to be dead or who went missing for months or even years.

And what about the detective boys, they were their when Conan used Shinichi's voice. And also what about Sera, Ran and Kogoro.

Sera is suspecting, Ran is going to start to suspect and Kogoro is not that stupid to realize what is really happening.

[randompi314159]

Regarding the coding system, this is an explanation I'm satisfied with (I suppose someone mentioned something similar in a previous post):

Yuchi - Bakery - kitsuneiro - golden brown - fox color
(In bakery and cooking terms, the color as in to cook/bake/roast until "golden brown" is kitsuneiro, or fox color)

Mitsui - Stonemasonry - nezumiiro - gray - rat color
(Nezumi means rats and nezumiiro is used to describe a darkish gray color. Although rats are usually brown, nezumiiro means gray)

Nihei - Seal maker - ivory - elephant
(Seals can be made of wood, plastic, or ivory)

And the uguisu color means the greenish camouflage color. It is congruent to the fact that Conan didn't connect the dots until this final keyword is mentioned.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense.

Well, idk why Conan used Shinichi when he could've went with Agasa as his solver. But I guess he needed that famous touch his name connotes rather than someone like Agasa to persuade the bomber to not kill Ran, Sera, Kogoro, and everyone else there.

But I found the DB's comments about Conan's usage of another voice hilarious. And the fact that he used Shinichi again, in front of everyone including Sera and Ran, both of which I'd think he'd be way more cautious around, very unlike him. Foreshadow to possible change to the norm of the series? I really hope this leads to something as finally the cases are starting to chain with each other and hopefully snowball. And a new suspicion case with everyone suspecting Conan would be fun .

Huh, didn't catch the flash of light thing at the end. Guess I should re-read it. I initially went with the appearance thing, but then Haibara brought it up, and then I figured it couldn't be that obvious. The slippers were probably used in the murder, and also brings up the fact that Nihei or whatever her name is came after the big lady I think. So if we think that the rat is the killer, it'd eliminate Nihei as a suspect since she wasn't the last person to enter. But that's just a random thought.

[mysterygirl]

Noooooo!! I was typing in the QR box for over an hour or so, and now, it's all gone!  *sobs sobs*  That's what I get for doing it for one hour without setting the time limit to longer than 60 minutes.

Now, I have to re-type this again....   >______<

[RedPoppy]

In regards to the case, I found something weird. (at least to me)

Spoiler:

Why does Nihei (glasses) say "Oh?  When I went to her room, her slippers were there and they were neither wet nor warm…" I can understand wet, but how would she know they were warm? Not sure what it would mean, but I'm suspicious of her now.

True. That's why I think:
1) They were murderer's slippers who was in Miku's restroom that time.
2) Murderer isn't a rat, but actually an elephant, because Miku never wrote that elephant left her room. Besides sleeping pills don't work that fast, so she couldn't fell asleep right after meeting with rat.
3) Nihei's book is the only one which was wet and then dried. It's suspicious that only page with authograph was like not, not the whole book. Nihei didn't explain that, she just said "If I were murderer, the whole book would be distorted" - it's not good explanation for me. I guess her book was all distorted from water, but she separated the page with authograph and put it into new book.
4) They were Nihei's slippers who came to Miku right after bath with wet hair and (probably) with wet slippers.
5) Nihei = elephant = murderer

[thorongil]

what i'm thinking about is why Conan doesn't use Heiji... i mean yeah... he sucks with osaka ben but on the other hand the suspects and the brother wouldn't come in contact with shinichi.. which i think is a pretty bad considering they have no reason to keep their mouths shut about who solved the case they were involved with... especially not the culprit(s)... they/she will have a grudge against him and could mention the whole story in prison and by chance (seems likely to me) the BO has informants even in prison who hear the story... don't know how well informed they could be but that's worth mentioning for the BO in any case

concerning the zodiac reasoning... seems unlikely to me, especially because we don't know if DC is now in somewhat 1994/5/6 or something  with superfast developing technology etc or if it is 2011 with ultra-ultra slow overtheyearprogress (use one of the many timetheories)

i didn't regocnize the flash thing with sera , thx for pointing that out, i wonder whats that about...

ps: using shinichi's voice in front of the DB doesn't concern me at all, they met him him only once or twice in the manga , didn't he? and they say he uses another voice again but not that he uses shinichi's

[Abs.]

I also want to note that in Japan, e-mail and internet is mostly done via cell phone. Translation: Sawaguchi Miku was never "at the computer typing away"

[Akonyl]

ps: using shinichi's voice in front of the DB doesn't concern me at all, they met him him only once or twice in the manga , didn't he? and they say he uses another voice again but not that he uses shinichi's

they may not know Shinichi well, but if anyone mentions this case around the DBs or the fact that Kudo solved it, they'll probably let slip something like "Ehh? But Conan was the one who solved that case..." or that he was the one on the phone, not Shinichi.

and regarding the "suspicion" part of the case, I also think it'd be a bit funny if when Sera confronted Conan about being Shinichi, Ran was right there and Sera was like "wait, he never told you he was Shinichi? Oh, well this is awkward... I'm gonna go now..."

[thorongil]

Spoiler: quote

ps: using shinichi's voice in front of the DB doesn't concern me at all, they met him him only once or twice in the manga , didn't he? and they say he uses another voice again but not that he uses shinichi's

they may not know Shinichi well, but if anyone mentions this case around the DBs or the fact that Kudo solved it, they'll probably let slip something like "Ehh? But Conan was the one who solved that case..." or that he was the one on the phone, not Shinichi.

and regarding the "suspicion" part of the case, I also think it'd be a bit funny if when Sera confronted Conan about being Shinichi, Ran was right there and Sera was like "wait, he never told you he was Shinichi? Oh, well this is awkward... I'm gonna go now..."

you're right... never looked at it this way... well in that case it's even risky in front of the DB yeah.. shame on me for not regarding the interaction of DB and Ran etc

[mysterygirl]

concerning the zodiac reasoning... seems unlikely to me, especially because we don't know if DC is now in somewhat 1994/5/6 or something  with superfast developing technology etc or if it is 2011 with ultra-ultra slow overtheyearprogress (use one of the many timetheories)

The Zodiac reasoning was for fun. Not really part of the speculation speculation aspect. ^___0  

(And is Heiji necessary at the moment?)  

I also want to note that in Japan, e-mail and internet is mostly done via cell phone. Translation: Sawaguchi Miku was never "at the computer typing away"

That's right. I wasn't thinking of that. Miku wouldn't be using a laptop.  Thanks for the reminder.

So, correcting my speculation here.

Belated belated edit: Oh my gosh...  Why didn't I put these in spoiler tags??

Spoiler:

1) She goes to Miku's room for an autograph.
2) Miku is annoyed and wouldn't give her back her book after signing it.
3) The page is torned.
4) Tamami stayed around complaining about how she, or the book, was being treated. Miku, of course, would be texting away in her cell phone that the Rat is still here. And somewhere either before that or in the midst of her typing, she says that she will be going to the bath.
5) Miku starts to feel sleepy and falls down.
6) Tamami is shocked.
7) Puts on the soaked/warm slilppers unconsciously.
8) Runs back to her room.

But, I realized something as I was going to sleep last night. Her brother didn't need to even sneak into her room, which is something I should've thought of first. He could just knock on her door, and she'd be super annoyed with him as she lets him in.

The wet slippers could also belong to the brother. He could make up the excuse/alibi that he came from the onsen. (But, that would only be if Miku put away her slippers in the closet.)  Brother and sister get into a mini argument. Then, Tamami is knocking on the door so Miku pushes her brother into the bathroom and tells him to hide. That could explain why Miku wouldn't let Tamami into her bathroom.  Or, Miku pushed her brother back towards the door telling him to get out, but, he sneaks into her bathroom without letting her see.

(Interesting note to make, at least with my experience in a Hokkaido onsen inn, the bathroom is adjacent to the main door.)

Oh well, however this case ends up, I think the "two people" of concern that Ai is talking about would (obviously) be the witness of the crime (who is purported to be the murderer) and Sawaguri. Sawaguri wants to kill the witness/murderer and then, he would try to kill himself to make it look like he's fulfilled his avengement of his sister's death.

Edit: And I think Sumika really is like a dog with the fact that she went in with wet hair. (Then, maybe swapped her wet slippers for Miku's dry slippers without Miku realizing it....  Great, that would actually explain the slippers case with more sense than the slippers belonging to Sawaguri. Redpoppy's deduction goes along with this, except, I think the murderer is Sawaguri.)

[RedPoppy]

So, correcting my speculation here.

1) She goes to Miku's room for an autograph.
2) Miku is annoyed and wouldn't give her back her book after signing it.
3) The page is torned.
4) Tamami stayed around complaining about how she, or the book, was being treated. Miku, of course, would be texting away in her cell phone that the Rat is still here. And somewhere either before that or in the midst of her typing, she says that she will be going to the bath.
5) Miku starts to feel sleepy and falls down.
6) Tamami is shocked.
7) Puts on the soaked/warm slilppers unconsciously.
8) Runs back to her room.

But, I realized something as I was going to sleep last night. Her brother didn't need to even sneak into her room, which is something I should've thought of first. He could just knock on her door, and she'd be super annoyed with him as she lets him in.

The wet slippers could also belong to the brother. He could make up the excuse/alibi that he came from the onsen. (But, that would only be if Miku put away her slippers in the closet.)  Brother and sister get into a mini argument. Then, Tamami is knocking on the door so Miku pushes her brother into the bathroom and tells him to hide. That could explain why Miku wouldn't let Tamami into her bathroom.  Or, Miku pushed her brother back towards the door telling him to get out, but, he sneaks into her bathroom without letting her see.

(Interesting note to make, at least with my experience in a Hokkaido onsen inn, the bathroom is adjacent to the main door.)

Oh well, however this case ends up, I think the "two people" of concern that Ai is talking about would (obviously) be the witness of the crime (who is purported to be the murderer) and Sawaguri. Sawaguri wants to kill the witness/murderer and then, he would try to kill himself to make it look like he's fulfilled his avengement of his sister's death.

Edit: And I think Sumika really is like a dog with the fact that she went in with wet hair. (Then, maybe swapped her wet slippers for Miku's dry slippers without Miku realizing it....  Great, that would actually explain the slippers case with more sense than the slippers belonging to Sawaguri. Redpoppy's deduction goes along with this, except, I think the murderer is Sawaguri.)

But why Sawaguri would kill her sister? It looks like he really loved her, even if she was such a...eee...nasty woman who thinks that everybody's annoying. I really don't know why he would go to the Mouri's agency with bombs and gun, if he killed Miku. Just to know who's elephant, rat and fox? As a murderer who hid in Miku's bathroom, he should have know who came to Miku, because he would have recognized voices, I guess.
About Tamami. Hmm... That's quite probable, but would it be so terrifying if Miku felt asleep during the conversation? Tamami behad as if she saw something scary. I think it could be dead body, but I can't find explanation why she didn't call police. Other reason for being so scared is her stomach problems, but it's a bit...unsual. XD
I still think that Nihei's the culprit. Btw, I found another proof that the murderer is an elephant. Elephant is the only person who came to Miku with wet hair. Wouldn't it be easier if one suspect said - "I was the one who came to her right after bath, so I'm elephant". Plus, in this file everybody thinks that the culprit is rat, so this way elephant would be safe. Why? Nobody wanted to admit it, because elephant is the murderer. Other proof for Nihei:
+ she's the only one with distorted page in the book (explanation that the whole book would be wet is silly)
+ she's the only one who said that Miku's slippers were WARM (how she knows it?)
I dunno Japanese, so I can't say anything about nicknames, but I guess this theory is quite probable anyway.

[Shuusgirl]

About Tamami. Hmm... That's quite probable, but would it be so terrifying if Miku felt asleep during the conversation? Tamami behad as if she saw something scary. I think it could be dead body, but I can't find explanation why she didn't call police. Other reason for being so scared is her stomach problems, but it's a bit...unsual. XD

Unless Tamami tried to kill her too.  Like, maybe she was going to poison her and got scared and just decided to leave and someone took advantage of that and slit her wrists. 
I doubt it's the brother, though.  It's ruled as a suicide, so that'd mean he literally got away with murder.  Why bring it up now?

(And is Heiji necessary at the moment?) 

Heiji is ALWAYS necessary.