Question on Vermouth and APTX4869

[Eve]

As we all know, Vermouth seems to have drunk APTX4869 and became young like Conan and Ai.
I would like to discuss this topic from the point of other members in the BO.

From Jodie's recollection scene where her dad was murdered by Vermouth, we could say that Vermouth has been working for the BO at least for more than 20 years since Jodie seems to have aged at least by 20 years. 
Usually, one would think that  a person's appearance will change in 20 years.

And I 'm wondering how other BO members like Gin think about Vermouth's seemingly de-aged figure.
Although we don't know when she drank APTX4869, isn't it natural to notice if she went young or stopped aging?
However, Gin and others in the BO don't seem to be aware of the secret of APTX[de-aging effect] or Vermouth's aging mystery.

What does this mean?
Could it be that Gin and others see Sharon and Chris as defferent characters while the two are supposed to be the same person?   

Considering Sherry was a young new member, and Conan was Gin's first victim, I'm pretty sure Vermouth didn't take the drug, but she might have took a different drug, since the research was previously Shiho's parents project. She might have been "stuck" at that age forever, or something

[sstimson]

First All this Sharon = Chris is based on what Jodie said. I still believe that Chris and Sharon are two completely different people. Chris used her mother's fingerprints to hide, making it look like her crimes were her mother's. Shinichi's Mom was friends with Sharon long enough to know if Sharon had a kid or not. There is no way for Sharon to be making a movie one place while Chris is making a different movie at the same time.
We have been told that Chris was a great actress in her own right. It was not Sharon becoming Chris, but the other way around. Not sure if Chris killed her mother or not, But for a short part of time (less then a year) Chris pretended to be Sharon.I believe that the Sharon who met Shinichi, and Ran in New York was the real one. If you look at the faces between Sharon pretending to a New York Police Detective then unmasking and the Current pictures of Chris, you will see they look completely different. A double mask would likely have shown and would not have fooled the New York traffic cop, so again that face should be the real one. I also believe that the night after the events at the theater was when Chris became Sharon for that short time. Another proof of them being different people is the way they act. Chris acts very much like a mostly unfeeling killer. Sharon does not act that way. Is it possible for one actress to completely double act?

As for APTX, Shiro would have been on the scene when Chris would have taken the drug (in the year of the New York case, about a year ago). Chris might have had no say in whether or not she took it. It could have been put in either her drink or her food when she went to a BO meetings. This should show that it is possible for Chris to have taken the drug. As for who killed Jodie Father about 20 years ago, it might have been Chris or it might have been someone setup to look like Chris. How often have we heard Chris say that line? It seem to be mostly Jodie saying it. It seems to me that such a catch phase should be used more by Chris if indeed it is her catch phase.

There are some wrinkles noticeable in Sharon's face.  And that makes Sharon a different figure from Chris and Vermouth.  They are distinguished from each other by Gosyo Aoyama's description.
If Gin and others consider Sharon and Chris as the same person, it also means that they think Vermouth is/was playing two different characters in her offficial life.  Unlike Gin and Vodka, Vermouth has her official life.
So do they think that Vermouth disguses to put some wrinkles on her face and takes trouble to play two different actors, which is kind of risky since she has to avoid a situation where the two appears at the same time?  She could just stop being Sharon, fake her death and become Chris. 
I think this is implying that Gin and others see Sharon and Chris as different characters, or Vermouth is trying to hide her aging secret from other BO members and plays/ed two roles in the Organization as Sharon and Chris.

Chris Vineyard really did play at least two roles in her official life: Sharon and Chris; however she did them in such a way to minimize overlap. While Sharon Vineyard was around, Chris vineyard hadn't made a public appearance outside of movies and and interviews. It was only after Sharon Vineyard "died" less than one year before the present timeline that Chris Vineyard came out into the public light. Vermouth did this on purpose to minimize overlapping appearances since she had both roles to play. I am pretty sure the other members of the Org know she did this switch because Vermouth doesn't seem to hide her "real life identity" (Aka Sharon or Chris) from interactions with the Organization. You can read more about Vermouth being Chris and Sharon here if you like. There is also a timeline of Vermouth and !Araide's appearances if you want to read the manga for references. Note the corrections below.

It goes back to that New York case. I think Shinichi's Mom is smart enough to tell if that is happening and yet there is no sign of her believing that. Also Chris' Movies should also be a clue as I am sure that they overlapped Sharon's. You care to explain how one person can be in two places at the same time? Also remember the very cruel trick Chris played on Sharon by pretending to be Sharon's Husband at said person funeral. The Personality of the two ladies is completely different. I do not think Shinichi's Mom could have been friends with such a cruel person. At Sharon's funeral there is no mention of anything destroying her face. If the person getting Sharon ready for Burial is any good, wouldn't they discover the mask? That should show the person being buried was indeed Sharon.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

First All this Sharon = Chris is based on what Jodie said.

Wrong, Akai and Conan came to the same conclusion as well. See here!

I still believe that Chris and Sharon are two completely different people. Chris used her mother's fingerprints to hide, making it look like her crimes were her mother's.

Too hard to pull off consistently and Jodie would have caught his. See other thread.

Shinichi's Mom was friends with Sharon long enough to know if Sharon had a kid or not. There is no way for Sharon to be making a movie one place while Chris is making a different movie at the same time.

You are speculating here without evidence here so you can't prove this. We already know that Chris only came out into public after Sharon died, basically, the point was to minimize overlap. Sharon just lied to Yukiko.

I believe that the Sharon who met Shinichi, and Ran in New York was the real one. If you look at the faces between Sharon pretending to a New York Police Detective then unmasking and the Current pictures of Chris, you will see they look completely different. A double mask would likely have shown and would not have fooled the New York traffic cop, so again that face should be the real one.

Hattori's double mask of Kudo's face fooled everyone just fine. Also, it doesn't take much makeup to appear older. A whole mask might not be necessary. A few spot touches might be all that are needed. Also it's a worthless argument that a new York cop wouldn't be fooled by a mask when the infinitely more observant Shinichi and his disguise artist mother were both fooled by the Radish mask in the first place.

Another proof of them being different people is the way they act. Chris acts very much like a mostly unfeeling killer. Sharon does not act that way. Is it possible for one actress to completely double act?

Vermouth in an actress and a good one at that. She can manage.

As for APTX, Shiro would have been on the scene when Chris would have taken the drug (in the year of the New York case, about a year ago).

You are contradicting yourself. Chris is already young in the current timeline, so wouldn't need to take any sort of age decreasing drug. In the argument you are trying to make Sharon != Chris, you would want to argue AGAINST Chris taking and sort of anti aging drug because an anti-aging drug actually hurts your arguments by allowing Sharon to be the person responsible. Also Chris taking the drug wouldn't make any sense because if she got younger still, then why is Chris 29 or so now?

It goes back to that New York case. I think Shinichi's Mom is smart enough to tell if that is happening and yet there is no sign of her believing that....  The Personality of the two ladies is completely different. I do not think Shinichi's Mom could have been friends with such a cruel person.

Vermouth is a good actress.

Also Chris' Movies should also be a clue as I am sure that they overlapped Sharon's. You care to explain how one person can be in two places at the same time?

Can you point me to an independently verified scene in the manga where they both appeared at the same time? There isn't one, so it doesn't make much sense to argue about how they both appeared at the same when there actually isn't an instance of both of them appearing at the same time.

Also remember the very cruel trick Chris played on Sharon by pretending to be Sharon's Husband at said person funeral.

Vermouth lied and there were no witnesses to prove this actually happened,

At Sharon's funeral there is no mention of anything destroying her face. If the person getting Sharon ready for Burial is any good, wouldn't they discover the mask? That should show the person being buried was indeed Sharon.

You pay someone off, or have the vast criminal organization behind you rustle up some lackeys to pretend to do it.

Also you never put your side of the arguments in the “Sharon is a Bo member?â€

[sstimson]

Done. see http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=3633.0 for reply

[kirstn]

It's hard to say if they think of Sharon and Chris as separate or as one person, as we don't know how much they know about her. She's pretty mysterious and secretive - maybe only the boss knows the truth? Or Gin doesn't even care about her and her disguises. 

That's true.  But I just wanna challenge this Vermouth's aging mystery.

Chris Vineyard really did play at least two roles in her official life: Sharon and Chris; however she did them in such a way to minimize overlap. While Sharon Vineyard was around, Chris vineyard hadn't made a public appearance outside of movies and and interviews. It was only after Sharon Vineyard "died" less than one year before the present timeline that Chris Vineyard came out into the public light. Vermouth did this on purpose to minimize overlapping appearances since she had both roles to play. I am pretty sure the other members of the Org know she did this switch because Vermouth doesn't seem to hide her "real life identity" (Aka Sharon or Chris) from interactions with the Organization. You can read more about Vermouth being Chris and Sharon here if you like. There is also a timeline of Vermouth and !Araide's appearances if you want to read the manga for references. Note the corrections below.

But why would she have to take trouble to minimize overlap?  After all, she don't have to play both Sharon and Chris if BO members know the secret.
I am guessing that Vermouth had been playing both Sharon and Chris for at least 10 years.  This is from what Sharon said in NY Case.
"I haven't met her[Chris] for 10 years."
And I think this is what was actually in her mind.
"I have been playing Chris from 10 years ago so it's impossible that the two meet or appear at the same time."
Why would she have to be like that unless she was trying to hide her aging secret?

[Officer Kaoko]

It can be like this:
Gin likes Sherry, which made Vermouth jealous.
One day, Vermouth goes to the lab where Sherry works to mock Sherry.
Sherry ignores what Vermouth says, and continues on her project.
Vermouth teasing became very ugly. Making fun of her parents, making fun of Akemi.
Sherry went mad. With an injection besides her containing the APTX, she injected Vermouth with it.
Vermouth at that time was wearing a latex max hiding her true old face... and... when she ejected... instead of dying she became young, and was both happy and pissed off at the same time. She threatens Shiho not to tell anyone...

Under construction...

[Abs.]

Vermouth at that time was wearing a latex max hiding her true old face... and... when she ejected... instead of dying she became young

...

...
So the injection knew that the latex was "young" latex vs. "old" latex?

[Officer Kaoko]

Vermouth at that time was wearing a latex max hiding her true old face... and... when she ejected... instead of dying she became young

...

...
So the injection knew that the latex was "young" latex vs. "old" latex?

xD No! That's not what I meant. The purpose of the latex in this theory was to make no one suspicious of her youth. So no one will be like.. "How come she looks younger?" or something like that~
You get what I mean?

[Abs.]

So no one will be like.. "How come she looks younger?" or something like that~
You get what I mean?

Wouldn't they have thought that in the first place when she started using the mask?

[Officer Kaoko]

Wouldn't they have thought that in the first place when she started using the mask?

She joined the BO with the mask-of-her-younger-self.

[queenmisanagi]

1. It maybe make up after all. *agrees with those who said she is a master of disguise in her own right*
2. Botox. Trololololol.
3. That Pandora gem KID's after. Trololololol. (Aoyama-sama HAS GOT to resolve the non-canon element of DC and MK. Srsly. I mean, he put them in the same world and in one, "real" magic can exist and in the other, it can't? Maybe Pandora is actually not magical in the MK sense but has some scientific basis like the super duper first prototype of APTX4869 in a gem form.. or something..)

[BlackToffy]

It can be like this:
Gin likes Sherry, which made Vermouth jealous.
One day, Vermouth goes to the lab where Sherry works to mock Sherry.
Sherry ignores what Vermouth says, and continues on her project.
Vermouth teasing became very ugly. Making fun of her parents, making fun of Akemi.
Sherry went mad. With an injection besides her containing the APTX, she injected Vermouth with it.
Vermouth at that time was wearing a latex max hiding her true old face... and... when she ejected... instead of dying she became young, and was both happy and pissed off at the same time. She threatens Shiho not to tell anyone...

Under construction...

And other possibility is that vermouth captured Akemi and threatens Shiho/helena/atushi to develop some drugs which will make her never aging again or make her young again(if vermouth was really old when she kidnapped Akemi)

[sstimson]

Just for fun.

As we saw, some people will go overboard on plastic surgery. Since some think that Vermouth never took the drug, and to go with my theory about Sharon and Chris being two completely different people, I suggest this tongue in cheek.

The BO needed to act fast. Chris was beinging to show her age. Being completely Vain, She told them unless she looked young forever, she would bring down the BO with her little insurance Policy ( You know things being sent out on a person's death ).
The BO said Ok. They would make sure she always looked young. They kidnapped a young lady about the right age, height, and face, then they used plastic surgery to make her look exactly like Chris.

Now for the Science Fiction Part: They then transferred minds between the two ladies. After the transfer, they make sure in their way that the mind of their kidnapped person would never be a threat to them.  So Chris walked away in a younger body of herself.

After all if we can have body shrinking, why not brain transference? Which is more likely, Bodies getting younger by ten or more years, or brain transference?

[Tanaka Taro]

Inversely, you could say that Vermouth is also a test subject and a reason that she is the Boss' favorite is that the drug has successfully worked on her.  I guess you can say that this is one of the reasons that she wants Conan to crush the organisation. 

[Feb914]

Well, Sharon is dead, so Vermouth can focus on being one person It's kind of interesting, to speculate, if Sharon is the disguised form of her, or if Chris is. We don't know which face is the real one.

Wasn't Shinichi's mom knew Sharon from she was young? It'd mean that Sharon is the real one?