Files 771-774 Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes,

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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caribou

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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by caribou »

RedPoppy wrote:
randompi314159 wrote: Sera knowing Professor Agasa definitely stood out when reading the case, along with her great interest in Conan.
mysterygirl wrote: 5) Sera is someone not involved at all with the BO main story. She's highly perceptive, but, wanted to simply get close to Conan and study him. Her main idol has always been Kudo, and decided, of all the schools to transfer to, it would be Kudo's school. (The way she acts clueless when hearing about Kudo in the school makes me raise my eyebrow.) And if she's more brilliant than the two particular people, who are very close to Kudo, she would see a match between Kudo and Conan's faces. She would cover her bedroom with Conan and Kudo newspaper pictures. Perhaps, this is her number 1 mystery to solve and it has become her obsession?   
Then she was feigning not knowing Shinichi during the last case? She seemed to know more about Conan than Shinichi, which is also a bit odd.
You're right, that's odd. I can't believe that she knows about Sleeping Kogoro and Conan, but nothing about Kudo. If she's good detective, she should at least check about him in Internet after Hotel Case, right? I remember, in earlier case, she was shocked when Kudo made a call. Maybe she was thinking that he was dead like many people? Maybe she has connected already Shinichi and Conan, but in class she just pretended she didn't care about it? I don't think she would be so excited about meeting Conan, if she think that he's just a smart kid.
Btw, basing on Conan's cautious behaviour towards Sera (to not to show her that he's too smart), maybe this time he will solve this case as Shinichi (in person), so Sera and Kudo will finally meet~! Other options are:
1) Kogoro will solve the case and rescue everybody (haha)
2) Sera will do it (but actually what will Conan do then?)
3) Conan will do it with DB (Boooring...)
4) Conan will do it alone (but this way he will make Sera and the others suspicious)
I vote for Shinichi option. :D
I think Sera already knows/suspects that Conan = Shinichi Kudo. That's why in the last case she tried to trick Conan into saying whether the placement of the paint cans (or some bulky items, can't remember sorry) for the demonstration of the murder trick was okay. But I think she was a bit surprised that Shinichi called because she was expecting Conan to use his usual modus operandi i.e. put Kogoro to sleep with his stun gun and do the Sleeping Kogoro act.

I know that Conan doesn't seem to suspect her but I kind of hope that Sera is actually on the BO's side, that would be a nice twist... (Team Conan is getting a bit too big IMO.) It would be even more epic if she was ALSO Bourbon + Akai's sister. 8) So she WOULD be a sister looking for her brother... but she's looking for him TO KILL HIM!!! *eggcitement*
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by Dus »

And now for my grand unifying theory:

1:
Sera is Shuichi's sister. This is based on their similiar looks and Conan's instinct but also on another thing: The name Sera Masumi is similiar to Sayla Mass (セイラ・マス Seira Masu), the sister of Char Aznable.

The following sentence from the article has been pointed out by Kleene:
Sayla becomes romantically and sexually involved with Amuro, even going so far as to ask him to kill her brother for the safety of the greater good
This is, of course, no decisive evidence, but it indicates the possibility that Sera is actually hostile towards her brother, which brings me to my second point:
Bourbon is Shuichi's sister (rather than brother)
I've suspected that for a long time, simply because both Rye and Bourbon are American whiskeys

Circumstantial evidence:
  • Bourbon's sex has never been stated explicitely, Gin's comment may even be interpreted as a hint that Bourbon is female
  • Bourbon is described as Holmes-like, just like Sera. Both managed to make their deduction at the same time as, if not faster than, Conan
  • Bourbon has only recently joined the ranks of the BO - Sera has only recently come to Japan
  • Bourbon is grinning arrogantly at Chianti when exiting the department store, Sera is grinning arrogantly when setting up the trap for Conan
  • Bourbon is getting dangerously close to probe the FBI, Sera is getting close to Conan to probe him. Both points show that they are similar in character
  • Bourbon knows about Conan and would have in interesting in him
  • Sera has done research on Kogoro, as has Bourbon
  • Sera has an awesome hat, as has Scar-Akai
  • both are right-handed
Counter-argument:
  • dissimilar build: This has bugged me for quite a long time, but when you think about it, it is completely irrelevant. Bourbon's disguise would have been made by Vermouth, and for the likes of her and Kid, differences and build don't matter. Kid has disguised as Ran as well as Kogoro, who is significantly larger, yet no-one has ever raised an eyebrow
  • Female BO members usually have wine-based code names: true, but it has never been stated as a rule. For the most part, wine is a very feminine drink, whilst Sera is not very feminine. If the code names are given out by Anokata, he may even have been confused about Sera's gender. If the members can choose their own code names, then Sera might have chosen that one to indicate her relation to Shuichi 
  • Conan trust Sera - True, but irrelevant. His judgement is clearly impaired, to get the plot going, just like in the London case. He basically established a connection between him and Shinichi in front of Sera, which was utterly unnecessary. He could have just ignored it, and force Sera to solve it herself or leave it be and call in at the police station later. Cases aren't closed that fast. Or he could have played the role of the child prodigy. Or introduce "Sleeping Sera". All of them would have been a lot safer. His reason to trust her is almost as bad as "A Holmes fan can't be a bad person". She seems vaguely familiar, so he trusts her. There are no indicators that he isn't telling the whole truth to Ai and he seemed genuinely surprised when Sera called him by name. It is unlikely that her arrival was foreshadowed by Shuichi, since then she would already know all there is to know about Conan. Or not know about him at all.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes, Sera's in it)

Post by Abs. »

Dus, add to your theory the previously used plot point of a female high-school detective pretending to still be in high school when she is actually older
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes, Sera's in it)

Post by Dus »

Entirely possible, especially since we have not had a box with her name and age. It's not really relevant though, since nothing is known about Bourbon's age.

Also: Since most of us would agree that Sera is Shuichi's sister: Who is their mother then? Shall we perhaps compile a list of all big-batteried females in DC? :P
Last edited by Dus on March 31st, 2011, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by Abs. »

\o/
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by KnightusMaximus »

Hmm, why would Bourbon's disguise be made by Vermouth? Why would Bourbon trust her with his/her activities but seemingly no one else? Unless they're friendly because they're both secretly sympathetic to Conan, but that doesn't seem to fit with Bourbon's intense desire to kill Akai.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by Dus »

Vermouth (and Anokata) was apparently in on Bourbon's plan at the department store, hence why she showed up to stop them from shooting scar-akai.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by KnightusMaximus »

I'm intrigued by this theory. Scar Akai = Sera. That certainly puts a new spin to Okiya's line, "I've known (his) face for a very long time... There's no way I could be mistaken."
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by Dus »

I've never thought of that line like that, although I've had the theory bourbon=Shuichi's brother since before I even read that chapter. But yeah, it kinda goes both ways.
BUT:
That would mean that Subaru knows who they're dealing with and would warn Conan about it. In that case Conan should really be on his toes and be very wary of random girls who remind him of Shuichi.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Y

Post by Blah »

Dus wrote:

Circumstantial evidence:
  • Bourbon's sex has never been stated explicitely, Gin's comment may even be interpreted as a hint that Bourbon is female
  • Bourbon is described as Holmes-like, just like Sera. Both managed to make their deduction at the same time as, if not faster than, Conan
  • Bourbon has only recently joined the ranks of the BO - Sera has only recently come to Japan
  • Bourbon is grinning arrogantly at Chianti when exiting the department store, Sera is grinning arrogantly when setting up the trap for Conan
  • Bourbon is getting dangerously close to probe the FBI, Sera is getting close to Conan to probe him. Both points show that they are similar in character
  • Bourbon knows about Conan and would have in interesting in him
  • Sera has done research on Kogoro, as has Bourbon
  • Sera has an awesome hat, as has Scar-Akai
  • both are right-handed
Maybe that's why she made that face when Shinichi was on the phone. She knew that Gin supposedly killed him?
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes, Agasa's in it)

Post by Jd- »

This thread, as of this writing, is now the best. Of all time.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes, Agasa's in it)

Post by Dus »

I find it confusing that Conan is still Conan. :-\
Edit: My sig just had "naughty little Hayley" in it. I approve.
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes, Agasa's in it)

Post by HADAA »

THIS IS MADNESS!!!1  :o
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Re: Files 771-77? Discussion Thread: The Forced Deduction (Yes, Agasa's in it)

Post by Arisana »

Spoilers are out surprisingly early--two days after the publishing date.
Spoiler: 772 spoiler visuals
On the last page, it looks like Conan is phoning as Kudo Shinichi? At least, Sera said something with 'Kudo Shinichi' on the page, although Conan looks a bit oddly shocked? Ai seems concerned at this point, saying something about 'detective' and 'death' in that panel? It's nice to see that Ai is taking an active role in helping solve this case.
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A Detective Conan & Magic Kaito Role Playing Game.

Characters particularly wanted for the RPG: Edogawa Conan/Kudo Shinichi, Mouri Ran, Haibara Ai/Miyano Shiho Mouri Kogoro, Jodie Starling, Hattori Heiji, Toyama Kazuha, Satou Miwako, Takagi Wataru, Kir, Snake and Gin.

Many other canon positions are available too.
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