Ran's role changed? Other's too?

[soratothamax]

A D.I.D is a noble female who is expecting of a male (who is usually a lover) to come to her rescue. More often than not, Ran always says "I wish Shinichi were here" or "Shinichi, help me." Even Jodie-Sensei picked up on that in the convenience store case. She is always expecting Shinichi to protect her and get her out of situations. This happens less when the focus is on Conan, as she seems to take on the role of a mother. But it happens then sometimes too where she's like "Shinichi, I need you." Ayumi has this problem as well, as she's always screaming "Conan-kun, save us!"

But really how many cases does Ran solve compared to how many cases there actually are in DC? I would say 10/500+ episodes....Sonoko has solved even more than that, and she is less important. And aside from the cases that she actually DID solve, she is a dormant character in most episodes, really doing what everyone else does. To me, everyone becomes the same when Shinichi is solving a case (a bit observant, shocked by the theories, pointing out things, and helping Conan with his deduction shows...) And aside from that fact that she is dormant in most episodes, she has no connection to the BO case either.

Ran COULD save herself. that's the problem. Goshyo makes all of his characters weaker when in the presence of Shinichi, knowing that Ran is really stronger than Shinichi. Still, there are other characters far more important.

The advice in Convenience Store says about as much about Jodie, losing her parents at a young age, as it does about Ran, though. Considering that Shin'ichi is the “Savior of the Tokyo Police Departmentâ€

[soratothamax]

[quote="kirite"]
[quote="Nyarl"]
The advice in Convenience Store says about as much about Jodie, losing her parents at a young age, as it does about Ran, though. Considering that Shin'ichi is the “Savior of the Tokyo Police Departmentâ€

[soratothamax]

I really like Ran, but I agree that she hasn't been showing much of the badass-ness that I liked about her! I accept that she has different sides to her personality, obviously she has weaknesses (i.e. ghosts, Shinichi, sad stories, Shinichi.....) but the Ran in the aftermath of the Highway Murder case didn't seem like the same one. She became a bit too quiet and gentle in my opinion (just running up to Shinichi and holding on to his sleeve without saying anything? :S). I don't mind her crying as much as this sudden personality change, her crying is actually at least consistent with a character that wears her heart on her sleeve.

I'd like to see more of Haibara's personality too I really liked the part of the series when she was listening to the tapes from her mother. That was a new side of Haibara that I never saw before! I have to credit Gosho for the Agasa-Haibara grandfather-daughterly relationship though, I'm glad he showed that natural development at least.

I preferred the old detective boys too (lol I sound like such a whiner) cos they had their own distinct personalities (e.g. Ayumi as the cute tomboy, Genta the one who bullies everybody, Mitsuhiko the smart aleck who follows Ayumi around) and they weren't so dependent on Conan. I like that they are much closer friends now, but then again now they are all just Generic Good!-Kids. I want to see more of their different characters shining through (besides the numerous references to Genta's love of unagi, lol) and maybe bully/make fun of Conan more, like what they used to do.

I think the one character whose development I've liked the whole series is Shinichi. I guess that's because he's the main character and has the most time for Gosho to properly develop his character... But it's nice how he's changed from this big-headed, somewhat immature high school kid to a more mature and humbled person (funny how he had to shrink first in order to grow up, ha ha). I think it's probably a good thing that he got shrunk, when he became a kid he had to learn to rely on other people more, and being burdened with the task of protecting those close to him probably made him a lot more careful. It's obviously not the ideal life for a high schooler, but it would probably make him a much better professional detective in the future if he does become one (which he will).

Thats what I'm saying  I think he's trying to show that the characters have "grown" and changed, which means when Shinichi gets back to himself, life will be different for him. Imagine being a kid for months, you get adjusted. But instead of growing, some seem to have lost what was always the best thing about them....I like the BO/FBI and Shinichi best, anybody involved with that, but anyone else, nah, they seem to weird now because Goshyo is trying to make them stick in the story....

[kkslider5552000]

are we still arguing about the significance of a fictional character in a fictional plot?  :(

Besides, this is easy. Gosho makes Ran looks like an important character most of the time. It's not as important as she was in the first 200 episodes anymore but outside of the Eisuke arc, she has still seemed like one of the top 5 most important characters at least. Even if these important situations don't always have her doing something that is really that important, as long as Gosho makes it seem like it is important, it is important (the anime did the same thing with trying to make 383 important. That's the main reason why it's memorable despite being a Heiji case that has...Ohtaki character development). Gosho makes Ran seem important. This means she is important.

Of course, fans can have a bias and make things more or less important thanks to it. As an odd (but hopefully logical) example, I often predict that Shiratori is the BO Boss so he can finally be important.



if it makes the ran haters (hating a fictional character IS silly. No weird, sarcastic smilies this time) feel better, she would be a horrible character in School Rumble.

[kirite]

if it makes the ran haters (hating a fictional character IS silly. No weird, sarcastic smilies this time) feel better, she would be a horrible character in School Rumble.

LOL!  Well some people love to hate.  Haters are also a ...profitable part of a fanbase C:

----

Well, on average, Shinichi is the average "perfect" hero, yes. But that's more reason for me to want something realistic to happen for once. I would love for Shinichi, Shiho, Ran to grown up together.  But I would want him to have some feelings for both (confused feelings, sort of...).

I usually hate rival "love interest" characters in anime, and always stick with the main girl. But in this anime, something about Haibara and Shinichi just stuck out....Don't know what. even in Ranma 1/2 I wasn't swayed from AkanexRanma....but with dC, for some reason, I was swayed. It's too long, that's the problem....

Further, I think they support each other. But I think Ran is more dependent on him than he is her. Even internally. It is so obvious that she needs Shinichi at her side always. Whenever the episode is about her, what else ever comes up? Shinichi. She's not very important beyond the "lover girl." That's Shinichi's cheerleader because she supports and accepts him flaws and all, and supports his vision, and likes to see him solving a case and stuff....She's always "Shinichi this, Shinichi that."  Even after he always calls her, she gets upset that he's not there. And they are not even dating. If my best friend was gone a long time, I'd be sad at first, but after exchanging email and talking on the phone, I'd be happy. I know she loves him, but they aren't together.....

And I do watch German versions, which she has said "Shinichi save me" at least three times.....

Well you know me if Ran, Shiho and Shinichi grew up together Ran will love Shiho, Shiho will love Shinichi, Shinichi will love Kaito, Kaito will love Heiji, Heiji will love pie but pie cheats on him with Okita in the season final :C.

Anyways even though they're not dating it's logical for her to miss him.

a) she loves him as blurt out randomly in the first book
b) he keeps telling her to wait for him
c) he keeps hinting that his case is dangerous without meaning to (Cocaine, FBI, overseas, can't tell you, etc...)
d) he seems to call Conan and Heiji more then he calls her .  He doesn't seem to call her that much actually.
e) until he gave her his cellphone number she had no way of contacting him.  When she finally gets his number his cellphone is always off.

In the convienient store case it's also logical for her to call him:

Her friend is getting framed and about to get fired/arrested!  Naturally you'll want to call a professional (genius high school detective who is called the savior of the Japanese police force) to help.  It's like if someone you know gets really hurt, it's logical to try to seek help from knowledgable people as soon as possible.  She can call the police but her friend is trying to avoid the police, "suspect of stealing" is not exactly the best record to have when working in a convienient store.  As to why she didn't call her dad...not sure.  She'll most likely call Shinichi and if he's not there then call Kogoro for help afterwards.

I always thought the reason why Jodie stopped Ran that time is to reinforce the "Jodie is Vermouth" thing.

--

For me I just read the (chinese) manga, but I'm sure misinterpretation and mistranslation happen all the time.  It's like:

Spoiler:

When Hinata says "I love you" in Naruto.  Everyone was fighting over the translation xD.

[baka1412]

--
For me I just read the (chinese) manga, but I'm sure misinterpretation and mistranslation happen all the time.  It's like:

Spoiler:

When Hinata says "I love you" in Naruto.  Everyone was fighting over the translation xD.

True enough..
And yet,  after all that grand confession by Hinata, she was completely forgotten on the rest of the chapter even until now...

Which i hope wouldn't happened on DC..

[soratothamax]

are we still arguing about the significance of a fictional character in a fictional plot?  :(

Besides, this is easy. Gosho makes Ran looks like an important character most of the time. It's not as important as she was in the first 200 episodes anymore but outside of the Eisuke arc, she has still seemed like one of the top 5 most important characters at least. Even if these important situations don't always have her doing something that is really that important, as long as Gosho makes it seem like it is important, it is important (the anime did the same thing with trying to make 383 important. That's the main reason why it's memorable despite being a Heiji case that has...Ohtaki character development). Gosho makes Ran seem important. This means she is important.

Of course, fans can have a bias and make things more or less important thanks to it. As an odd (but hopefully logical) example, I often predict that Shiratori is the BO Boss so he can finally be important.



if it makes the ran haters (hating a fictional character IS silly. No weird, sarcastic smilies this time) feel better, she would be a horrible character in School Rumble.

Goshyo is trying to make her important, but it ends up making her seem like she was stuck in there just to have a point. Mangas often stress that people are helpful and important in their own ways, but really, let's be honest. Ran really is not needed until the end. Really, she has nothing to do with the main plot. Ran shouldn't even expect Shinichi to call her, even if he did say wait for me, that doesn't mean anything. That's a vague thought that she's turning into love to spare her own heart and it can mean many things...they are not dating. He hasn't even confessed anything. She acts like he has to call her 700 times a day. I know she's demanding in love, but geez.....They are not married or dating...demanding someone to call you that many times when he is not your lover is clingy.

I'm not a Ran hater. I actually do like Ran as a character, I like her sweet and feisty side. But I'm being honest and realistic as this topic is about Ran's importance, which I think she doesn't have much of. I'm also admitting to myself that her role has changed since 128, which Conan didn't really need the Mouris much at all anymore after that....Her role has changed. I liked the old Ran. I'm not the biggest fan of her, because I don't really like characters the best who wear their hearts on their sleeves (they seem like crybabies to me). But it's not that I hate her. Its just some Ran fans are so clouded in their love for her, they don't think about the actuality of her latest role. As a character she is great, but...a bit unimportant. In most episodes with her, it's all about Shinichi...that's it...

[Eve]

I'm not a Ran hater. I actually do like Ran as a character, I like her sweet and feisty side. But I'm being honest and realistic as this topic is about Ran's importance, which I think she doesn't have much of. I'm also admitting to myself that her role has changed since 128, which Conan didn't really need the Mouris much at all anymore after that....Her role has changed. I liked the old Ran. I'm not the biggest fan of her, because I don't really like characters the best who wear their hearts on their sleeves (they seem like crybabies to me). But it's not that I hate her. Its just some Ran fans are so clouded in their love for her, they don't think about the actuality of her latest role. As a character she is great, but...a bit unimportant. In most episodes with her, it's all about Shinichi...that's it...

That's what I have been thinking too...maybe it's actually Gosho fault, I mean Ayumi, Ran, Kazuha, even Sonoko.... it's like he portrayed these girls as girls who are constantly thinking about their love interest... Gosho is really stuck when it comes to developing a female character in my opinion.....

[soratothamax]

I'm not a Ran hater. I actually do like Ran as a character, I like her sweet and feisty side. But I'm being honest and realistic as this topic is about Ran's importance, which I think she doesn't have much of. I'm also admitting to myself that her role has changed since 128, which Conan didn't really need the Mouris much at all anymore after that....Her role has changed. I liked the old Ran. I'm not the biggest fan of her, because I don't really like characters the best who wear their hearts on their sleeves (they seem like crybabies to me). But it's not that I hate her. Its just some Ran fans are so clouded in their love for her, they don't think about the actuality of her latest role. As a character she is great, but...a bit unimportant. In most episodes with her, it's all about Shinichi...that's it...

That's what I have been thinking too...maybe it's actually Gosho fault, I mean Ayumi, Ran, Kazuha, even Sonoko.... it's like he portrayed these girls as girls who are constantly thinking about their love interest... Gosho is really stuck when it comes to developing a female character in my opinion.....

Yea, I think Goshyo thinks all girls do all day is think about who they love and give up their whole life for that pursuit. I mean all the men have ambitions and goals in DC, like some want to be detectives, inventors, etc. What did Ran say she wanted to do after high school? More than likely...get married and be a wife. Same with Sonoko. Same with Kahzuya. Same with Ayumi. Like marriage is the one and end all of every life. Man, all of them only care about romance all day long. Remember in that Lupin Vs. Conan case (non canon I know, but it reminded me of it) all Ran kept dreaming about was being a princess waiting for her prince and getting married when he returns....Ayumi tries to make a setting like the festival dolls...I mean that's all that's on their brains. Satou and Jodie have strong ambitions and powerful jobs at that.....very impressive, though Satou's life also involves love, she has other things to do too. She's one of my favorite female characters btw She is balanced for real... I love Haibara too because she's a "half-blood villain...." But man, why are the girls so narrow-minded? 

[Eve]

I'm not a Ran hater. I actually do like Ran as a character, I like her sweet and feisty side. But I'm being honest and realistic as this topic is about Ran's importance, which I think she doesn't have much of. I'm also admitting to myself that her role has changed since 128, which Conan didn't really need the Mouris much at all anymore after that....Her role has changed. I liked the old Ran. I'm not the biggest fan of her, because I don't really like characters the best who wear their hearts on their sleeves (they seem like crybabies to me). But it's not that I hate her. Its just some Ran fans are so clouded in their love for her, they don't think about the actuality of her latest role. As a character she is great, but...a bit unimportant. In most episodes with her, it's all about Shinichi...that's it...

That's what I have been thinking too...maybe it's actually Gosho fault, I mean Ayumi, Ran, Kazuha, even Sonoko.... it's like he portrayed these girls as girls who are constantly thinking about their love interest... Gosho is really stuck when it comes to developing a female character in my opinion.....

Yea, I think Goshyo thinks all girls do all day is think about who they love and give up their whole life for that pursuit. I mean all the men have ambitions and goals in DC, like some want to be detectives, inventors, etc. What did Ran say she wanted to do after high school? More than likely...get married and be a wife. Same with Sonoko. Same with Kahzuya. Same with Ayumi. Like marriage is the one and end all of every life. Man, all of them only care about romance all day long. Remember in that Lupin Vs. Conan case (non canon I know, but it reminded me of it) all Ran kept dreaming about was being a princess waiting for her prince and getting married when he returns....Ayumi tries to make a setting like the festival dolls...I mean that's all that's on their brains. Satou and Jodie have strong ambitions and powerful jobs at that.....very impressive, though Satou's life also involves love, she has other things to do too. She's one of my favorite female characters btw She is balanced for real... I love Haibara too because she's a "half-blood villain...." But man, why are the girls so narrow-minded? 

Yeah, Seriously... it's Gosho fault those girls turn out that way.... I mean Sato is different since she's independent due to her father's dead, Jodie-the same situation, kinda worse, Haibara - Loss of ALL family members.... I think in Gosho mind, a normal girl would be like Ran, Ayumi, Kazuha, and Sonoko, where as Females who suffered will be like Sato, Jodie, and Haibara.... That's how his brain works... which sucks... considering normal girls don't mean they'll constantly think about love, heck, some don't even care....

LOL... I started a blaming on Gosho idea XDDD....

[kkslider5552000]

That's what I have been thinking too...maybe it's actually Gosho fault, I mean Ayumi, Ran, Kazuha, even Sonoko.... it's like he portrayed these girls as girls who are constantly thinking about their love interest... Gosho is really stuck when it comes to developing a female character in my opinion.....

DC is shonen. Shonen = young boys. I would assume a lot of young boys approve of the female characters looking not as strong or important or whatever or etc. I mean, I know I often didn't care about female characters in cartoons or anime when I was a kid (Digimon's 1st series immediately comes to mind), because I was a kid.

Either way, Ran pratically forgot about Shinichi during the Eisuke arc where she herself was forgotten (like I said before). And Ayumi is almost never portrayed as "girl who likes Conan" anymore, if I remember correctly. Also, Sonoko's awesomeness overshadows her obsession with Makoto and Kid. Plus, she's genuinely just an exagerated version of what many girls act like so it works.

Kazuha being "I'M ANGRY AT THE PERSON I LOVE" character #4853 at times is something I can't defend but 3/4 ain't bad!

[AICHAN]

I'm not a Ran hater. I actually do like Ran as a character, I like her sweet and feisty side. But I'm being honest and realistic as this topic is about Ran's importance, which I think she doesn't have much of. I'm also admitting to myself that her role has changed since 128, which Conan didn't really need the Mouris much at all anymore after that....Her role has changed. I liked the old Ran. I'm not the biggest fan of her, because I don't really like characters the best who wear their hearts on their sleeves (they seem like crybabies to me). But it's not that I hate her. Its just some Ran fans are so clouded in their love for her, they don't think about the actuality of her latest role. As a character she is great, but...a bit unimportant. In most episodes with her, it's all about Shinichi...that's it...

That's what I have been thinking too...maybe it's actually Gosho fault, I mean Ayumi, Ran, Kazuha, even Sonoko.... it's like he portrayed these girls as girls who are constantly thinking about their love interest... Gosho is really stuck when it comes to developing a female character in my opinion.....

Yea, I think Goshyo thinks all girls do all day is think about who they love and give up their whole life for that pursuit. I mean all the men have ambitions and goals in DC, like some want to be detectives, inventors, etc. What did Ran say she wanted to do after high school? More than likely...get married and be a wife. Same with Sonoko. Same with Kahzuya. Same with Ayumi. Like marriage is the one and end all of every life. Man, all of them only care about romance all day long. Remember in that Lupin Vs. Conan case (non canon I know, but it reminded me of it) all Ran kept dreaming about was being a princess waiting for her prince and getting married when he returns....Ayumi tries to make a setting like the festival dolls...I mean that's all that's on their brains. Satou and Jodie have strong ambitions and powerful jobs at that.....very impressive, though Satou's life also involves love, she has other things to do too. She's one of my favorite female characters btw She is balanced for real... I love Haibara too because she's a "half-blood villain...." But man, why are the girls so narrow-minded? 

Yeah, Seriously... it's Gosho fault those girls turn out that way.... I mean Sato is different since she's independent due to her father's dead, Jodie-the same situation, kinda worse, Haibara - Loss of ALL family members.... I think in Gosho mind, a normal girl would be like Ran, Ayumi, Kazuha, and Sonoko, where as Females who suffered will be like Sato, Jodie, and Haibara.... That's how his brain works... which sucks... considering normal girls don't mean they'll constantly think about love, heck, some don't even care....

LOL... I started a blaming on Gosho idea XDDD....

LOL,i think exaclty the same....sometimes i have the feeling that all the highschool girls(or young girls) in DC world only cares about their love relationship,they have no other aim than that....of course love is important in life,but it would be cool if theses girls were thinking about their futur,their dreams...because when i read DC,girls like Sonoko,Kazuha,Ran have their bigger role(i mean the main role)when it comes to their relationship with their "boyfriend"(Kazuha is only present when heiji is here,Ran has the most important role when shinichi's arround her(desperate revival) well it's very entertaining in the begining ,but when the serie is that long(+700files )it become boring for me,i'm expecting something else at that point...

DC is shonen. Shonen = young boys. I would assume a lot of young boys approve of the female characters looking not as strong or important or whatever or etc. I mean, I know I often didn't care about female characters in cartoons or anime when I was a kid (Digimon's 1st series immediately comes to mind), because I was a kid.

i agree with that but still,some new shonen mangas i saw were a bit more modern for portraying female characters,that's why i thought gosho would make his DC girls evoluate a bit,(being more like tha actual girls) and not staying at the same level of thoughts...
but you're right,it's a shonen manga,so.... anyway,it feels like gosho pay more atention to relationship and couplethan in the begining,it's not that shonen for me..
well,that's only my opinion

[Eve]

DC is shonen. Shonen = young boys. I would assume a lot of young boys approve of the female characters looking not as strong or important or whatever or etc. I mean, I know I often didn't care about female characters in cartoons or anime when I was a kid (Digimon's 1st series immediately comes to mind), because I was a kid.

i agree with that but still,some new shonen mangas i saw were a bit more modern for portraying female characters,that's why i thought gosho would make his DC girls evoluate a bit,(being more like tha actual girls) and not staying at the same level of thoughts...
but you're right,it's a shonen manga,so.... anyway,it feels like gosho pay more atention to relationship and couplethan in the begining,it's not that shonen for me..
well,that's only my opinion

I agree.... This is the modern era... maybe the modern boys are more likely to find girl who cries annoying... no offense, but the general population nowadays usually find people who cries and ask for help, or ask for attention every time annoying....

Yeah, I'd rather he pays more attention to cases, rather than the feelings and the thinking about your love ones.... because really, the more he does it, the worse it becomes... because he's probably bad at relationship after all... XDDDDD

[Nyarl]

Your arguing that she wasn't waiting for a sign or a call but what was she waiting for then? The situation wasn't going to change magically and the culprit wasn't just going to walk out to surrender. She also wasn't just trying to work up the nerve to act when a friend in was in danger because that would just break her character. So Ran really had no valid in character reason to wait other than the magic call from Shinichi(what Gosho probably wanted) and that was bad writing on his part.

She wasn't waiting, she was trying to decide whether to explain her theory. There was a decision to make, because she didn't have an explanation for why the culprit couldn't just move the boxes himself, or any evidence for such a bizarre scenario. Going to the owner prematurely with such a theory wouldn't necessarily help Aya, and could make the owner hostile enough to make it hard to do anything to help Aya. She might have eventually thought of a way to expose the culprit (or just decided to look for herself to see if he were really up there) without the prompt from Shin'ichi, or just told Sonoko and Jodie her theory and asked for their advice, but we'll never know since he did call.

[soratothamax]

Your arguing that she wasn't waiting for a sign or a call but what was she waiting for then? The situation wasn't going to change magically and the culprit wasn't just going to walk out to surrender. She also wasn't just trying to work up the nerve to act when a friend in was in danger because that would just break her character. So Ran really had no valid in character reason to wait other than the magic call from Shinichi(what Gosho probably wanted) and that was bad writing on his part.

She wasn't waiting, she was trying to decide whether to explain her theory. There was a decision to make, because she didn't have an explanation for why the culprit couldn't just move the boxes himself, or any evidence for such a bizarre scenario. Going to the owner prematurely with such a theory wouldn't necessarily help Aya, and could make the owner hostile enough to make it hard to do anything to help Aya. She might have eventually thought of a way to expose the culprit (or just decided to look for herself to see if he were really up there) without the prompt from Shin'ichi, or just told Sonoko and Jodie her theory and asked for their advice, but we'll never know since he did call.

Yea, Shinichi DID call her....but I felt even before then, she was basically calling his name in her head (some psychic thing going on). He sensed that she was waiting for him to call.....she was silently asking for Shinichi's help....A silent prayer to Shinichi. She worships him...LOL.. She was basically waiting for him to come to the rescue with this case instead of solving it on her own, much in the same way the Detective Boys have to rely on Conan to solve cases, though they initially try to solve it on their own, they end up asking Conan for help.  Haibara and Jodie-Sensei know that people can't totally rely on Shinichi to solve all of their problems just because they don't know how to handle it themselves. They can't break under pressure and ask him to take the load for them and think for them. They have to learn to think. Both have told the Dbos and Ran not to rely on Shinichi. Shinichi is helpful, yes, but if they're so dependent on Shinichi's knowledge, when it comes down to doing something, and Shinichi won't be around, what will they do? Break? Instead of saying "what will Shinichi do?", though he's a good role model, Ran should be saying "What can I do to help this situation?..."