Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOILERS!

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Jd-
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Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOILERS!

Post by Jd- »

THIS TOPIC CONTAINS SPOILERS WITHOUT TAGS, OMG! (NOT THAT THIS CASE WASN'T ENTIRELY TOO OBVIOUS ANYWAY, BUT A WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED!)

slider-chan usually makes these, but I couldn't wait to post something so here we go. I'll save it for the end of the post to INCREASE THE SUSPENSE. :P

Now, first of all, let's pose a question about this case. From the top, we have to go over the criminal's method:

+ He helps pack away the equipment.

+ He then confronts the woman, proceeds to press her against the wall, strangles her, kills her, etc.

+ He then packs her body into the bass drum case and removes the hand from the mannequin and places it in the guitar.

+ He then approaches Mouri (conveniently present, may I add), lures away Ran (whose presence is even more convenient), and then goes downstairs to discover the body.

The key point to the entire plot: his 'alibi' witness, who happens to be Ran. If it hadn't been for Ran being present, he'd have nothing more than his own word to say there had been a body there--and even then, there's no way to introduce the body switch trick if it's just him standing there. Some might say he could get the guard to play the Ran role... But of course that's not going to work. Even if the guy told the security guard to fetch the police and maybe an ambulance, there's no way the cop would just take his word for it and not check the body/turn on the lights. Even more, had the guy said this to the security guard, the police would have to take notice of it later.

Was he somehow planning on Mouri to be there that day? Because, if it had not been for him telling Ran to get Mouri, no matter who else the his fellow witness was, there wasn't really a positive way to ensure they'd forgo the security station and run all the way back to the roof. No, more likely, they'd run to the security guard first thing without thinking about. Ran has special circumstances (teenage girl with famous detective father), so we'll let her slide.

Thus, we come to the question of... WHEN... did he plan all this? From what transpires later in the episode, we can see it's a crime of opportunity and passion, despite him knowing that something was up with two of his bandmates and another band. While he did seem upset at this beforehand, it was her harsh words about him and his BREAKERZ cover band that put him over the edge.

Did he see Mouri yelling and, while performing, somehow come up with the mannequin and bass drum plan? Did he plan the entire crime right on the spot?

I thought of two more pretty solid issues with the eppy as well, but I'll hold off as this is definitely enough to get started. Obviously the discussion is tilted a bit, but I think a case can be made either way. AND AS SUCH, A CASE WE WILL MAKE.

BUT NOW ONTO THE FUNNY!


While working on the episode and before I sent it to QC, I saw a particular part that gave me a fairly hilarious idea for when the QC was underway.

At the point where Chiba walks in holding the mannequin and says, "Mouri-san... I've brought what you asked for," I just could help but add something to the screen. So, when the QC came to be and it was being watched, this showed up on the screen at that exact point for the giggles...
Spoiler:
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It went over well. It was fun. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. :-*
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by GinRei »

I maintain that the biggest plot holes are the characters' ridiculous stupidity.  For example, Megure being shocked by the idea that the victim was found in one place, but died in another.  As if a human body couldn't possibly be moved.

Also, Takagi handling two key pieces of evidence without wearing gloves.  Too much of a novice mistake for anyone who's attained the Keiji rank.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by kirite »

Oh pfft, here I was thinking I'll wait for the HD release xD.

LOL Jd- edits ftw xDDD

In anycase I agree with your point, without Kogoro and Ran this wouldn't have worked so well.  However I believe if he couldn't create an alibi for himself this way then he would have had another plan altogether.  But as that plan was probably more complicated in nature he decided to take advantage of who's there.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by Akonyl »

I was wondering what that whole BACHELOR PARTY thing in the other topic was about

anyway, I think it's insinuated that it's a crime that's thought up on the spot, as though he had suspicions of her leaving the band, he wasn't ever actually planning on killing her until she laughed in his face and made him  >:( . So, by this time he would have already known that Kogoro and Ran were there. If that's the case, it's not a plot hole as long as he's smart enough to throw hte whole thing together. The fact that the mannequin the hand was stolen from was right next to where he murdered her points towards that also, because that seems like a "oh crap, how will I ocver this up, uhh uhh there's a mannequin YES" thing, whereas if it was premeditated, he would have probably yoinked a hand from a less obvious position.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by kkslider5552000 »

1.Who cares about the plot hole? How about the episode being...kinda boring?

2. Chiba's first appearance looked like his face was...oh god...I'm too lazy to get a picture of it right now...

3. LEADAH

4. Ran actually didn't look poorly drawn

5. The episode actually helped make me like the art style

6. And the background music was actually good throughout the whole episode. Must be the lack of the "WE NEED TO USE THE LOUDEST, MOST OVERLY DRAMATIC MUSIC POSSIBLE" music.

7. Everlasting Spelling Mistake

8. I now want to see the remastered Night Baron case. Because that case is amazing.

9. The guy who is not rude/evil and isn't suspecting others is ALWAYS the murderer.

10. WHY DOES EVERYONE SMILE WHEN THEY SUSPECT THEIR SO-CALLED FRIENDS OF MURDERING SOMEONE?!



No AOs for a long time I think. That's good.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by GinRei »

kkslider5552000 wrote: 9. The guy who is not rude/evil and isn't suspecting others is ALWAYS the murderer.
I was saying something similar to Jd during QC.  Not so much that they're always the murderer, but as soon as someone's friend winds up dead they start blaming each other.  Like, instantly.  Anything to possibly remove blame from themselves.
10. WHY DOES EVERYONE SMILE WHEN THEY SUSPECT THEIR SO-CALLED FRIENDS OF MURDERING SOMEONE?!
See above.  They think they have dirt on their friends to remove any possible blame from themselves so they aren't falsely arrested.  They forget their friends likely have similar dirt on them.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by Jd- »

kkslider5552000 wrote: 1.Who cares about the plot hole? How about the episode being...kinda boring?

...

No AOs for a long time I think. That's good.
Boring = AO = inevitable = gah = not again = another!? = over half of all new episodes?  :'(

I bet 547 will be an AO if 548 isn't. Such is the way of things. :(
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by sdf1macross »

Being there so many good cases from the manga that haven't been done in the anime, why do they keep making AO's???
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by GinRei »

sdf1macross wrote: Being there so many good cases from the manga that haven't been done in the anime, why do they keep making AO's???
There actually aren't THAT many.  Less than a dozen, I believe.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by sdf1macross »

But still I rather have two episodes a month based on the manga than having this fillers, I'm just curious to know what is the need of making the AO's
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by kkslider5552000 »

sdf1macross wrote: But still I rather have two episodes a month based on the manga than having this fillers, I'm just curious to know what is the need of making the AO's
because they need to make 30 episodes a year?

I know a lot of anime say in advance how many episodes they are producing so it might have something to do with that?


I don't get it either.

anyway, I'm pretty sure there are three manga cases from volume 63 not in the anime.

30 episodes per year
One case usually = two episodes.
Three cases = 6 episodes.

544 + 6 = 550
550 - 30 = 520 (the last episode of last year)


am I correct?
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by kirite »

Akonyl wrote: I was wondering what that whole BACHELOR PARTY thing in the other topic was about

anyway, I think it's insinuated that it's a crime that's thought up on the spot, as though he had suspicions of her leaving the band, he wasn't ever actually planning on killing her until she laughed in his face and made him  >:( . So, by this time he would have already known that Kogoro and Ran were there. If that's the case, it's not a plot hole as long as he's smart enough to throw hte whole thing together. The fact that the mannequin the hand was stolen from was right next to where he murdered her points towards that also, because that seems like a "oh crap, how will I ocver this up, uhh uhh there's a mannequin YES" thing, whereas if it was premeditated, he would have probably yoinked a hand from a less obvious position.
Now that I think about it I agree.

Plus he would tried to blame someone he doesn't like ;D.
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by Eve »

kirite wrote:
Akonyl wrote: I was wondering what that whole BACHELOR PARTY thing in the other topic was about

anyway, I think it's insinuated that it's a crime that's thought up on the spot, as though he had suspicions of her leaving the band, he wasn't ever actually planning on killing her until she laughed in his face and made him  >:( . So, by this time he would have already known that Kogoro and Ran were there. If that's the case, it's not a plot hole as long as he's smart enough to throw hte whole thing together. The fact that the mannequin the hand was stolen from was right next to where he murdered her points towards that also, because that seems like a "oh crap, how will I ocver this up, uhh uhh there's a mannequin YES" thing, whereas if it was premeditated, he would have probably yoinked a hand from a less obvious position.
Now that I think about it I agree.

Plus he would tried to blame someone he doesn't like ;D.
I agree that because he's not prepare, there were so many obvious thing in his cover up... still, the thing that bothered me was how... Ran took  a while to realize a "HUGE RED DRUM"  was gone... even though she did take a took around the place before... (also, that guy should not put the drum back in the case... he could just leave it on there... it's not like he needed it to be that neat XDDD)
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by Akonyl »

maybe he was more certain that Ran would forget about the difference than he was that the police / band members would question why it wasn't in the box?

at this poitn I'm pretty much just making excuses :P
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Re: Detective Conan 544 Discussion + ...A Plot Hole!? (SPOIL

Post by ssjup81 »

sdf1macross wrote: But still I rather have two episodes a month based on the manga than having this fillers, I'm just curious to know what is the need of making the AO's
To keep the manga ahead of the anime.
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