Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Does anyone else think the teddy bear was suspicious? I think it might have the bomb. However, I'm kinda stupid so it's probably nothing . I just wondered why they even mentioned it if it wasn't important.
Okay I've only really skimmed this thread so I apologize if someone else posted all this. It's more observations than anything else. I just need to organize my thoughts. I also have a feeling there's still a missing element.
Spoiler: Book of Revelation
Book of Revelation
This is a clear reference to John's Book of Revelation, the last bit of the New Testament. The book is also known as the Apocalypse of John or simply the Apocalypse so it's very fitting since we know that Hades already plans to kill a bunch of people. In short, good and evil fight a big giant huge battle of destruction, good wins by the help of another Jesus figure, peace ensues, there's a time of trouble and then evil is banished for good, then everyone goes to Heaven and lives happily ever after. Hades obviously knows that he's going to be caught, Shinichi said so himself.
So since he's apparently modeling himself after this book, I feel it's free to say that him being caught coincides with the the defeat of evil. Of course, after he's caught it would appear that he has something planned since more trouble happens after evil is vanquished. Perhaps his partner Hestia has something up her sleeve. It's also possible that he see his plot being stopped as the fall of evil and his arrest as the end of the time of trouble.
The Seven Seals
The seven seals are broken by the Jesus figure. It's possible that they somehow correspond to the 7 lines in the clue paper but I don't see it. It might also be possible that they correspond to the 7 trumpets but I don't think that's very likely either. But I'll list them here just in case. These are the general 7 that I picked up... though depending on what site I looked at 4 could be either pestilence or death...
1. Deceptive religion (first of the horsemen)
2. War (second of the horsemen)
3. Famine (third of the horsemen)
4. Pestilence (fourth of the horsemen)
5. Martyrs, vengeance
6. Natural disasters
7. The seven trumpets (lots of bad stuff happens)
Spoiler: Names
All of the fodder characters people unique to this mystery have names that reference Greek or Roman gods. This is fairly obvious and I would expect most people to pick up on this. The names are somewhat random and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to why certain names are Greek and certain ones are Roman.
Minerva (Roman): Greek name Athena
Apollo (Greek or Roman)
Juno (Roman): Greek name Hera
Ares (Greek): Roman name Mars
Hades (Greek): Roman name Pluto
Diana (Roman): Greek name Artemis
Venus (Roman): Greek name Aphrodite
Hestia (Greek): Roman name Vesta
Also, the clue from the paper was Saturn (Roman): Greek name Cronus.
The planets are named after the Roman gods but there are only 3 names there that correspond to a planet (4 if you count Pluto). So unless we get a whole bunch of new characters in the next chapter then it's got nothing to do with our planets.
It should be noted that the Greeks and Romans only recognized 5 planets (7 including the moon and sun).
Moon
Mercury
Venus
Sun
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn
Of the 5 planets, only 3 are mentioned in our names. Out of the 7 total, we have 5 since Apollo and Artemis can be used to represent the sun and the moon.
I also have a bit of a theory about Minerva and Apollo's family. Athena and Apollo are both born of Zeus. Minerva and Apollo also have a dead sister and a dead father whose names are not mentioned. Sister aside, it is possible that their father might represent Zeus. If this is true then our total would be up to 4/6 in our Greek planet list. All we would be missing is Mercury (Roman) aka Hermes (Greek). Hermes is a son of Zeus so if you ignore the gender thing he would fit perfectly as the sister's representation. In that case we have all 5/7 of the Greek planets.
However, there is a problem with this. If this is indeed what Hades is referring to by his Saturn, at least one cat is involved. Since I can't really see him blowing up a cat just for revenge, it's likely that this isn't a hit list. It might just be there to draw a connection to the hint of Saturn. However, this would also mean that Diana is involved in some way. In order to solve the riddle, one would have to know Diana and her cat and the chance that the person (or Scotland Yard) solving the riddle would actually know her and realize that she was connected. It is also likely that he handed out so many papers because his chance of getting someone who knew Diana (or perhaps reaching the person that Diana brought on purpose) would be higher.
Another thing I considered was the relationships between the gods when compared to the characters with their names. There isn't much of a relationship at all. Apollo and Artemis aren't even related to each other even though by mythology they are twins. There are only 3 children of Cronus (Saturn) represented in the characters: Juno, Hades, and Hestia. Hades and Hestia are both evil so I would say it's a good bet that Juno has something to do with this mess too. Plus having a mother go against her children is very Detective Conan-like. The rest of the characters are named after Zeus' offspring (only Ares being the legitimate one from Hera and Zeus) with the exception of Venus who was born from sea foam/Uranus' junk.
Last edited by Sakina on September 22nd, 2010, 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
yes I've read the paper and the cat thing, but it seemed pretty random but again, maybe Gosho is just playing around this time
Last edited by Eve on September 22nd, 2010, 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
Ah, okay. I thought you were correcting me.
With her name and her cat's name she obviously has something to do with it. It probably won't be revealed until Conan/Shinichi points it out to us, though. So far all we know is that she brought a famous detective and a Holmes freak to the scene of a soon-to-be mass murder. I simply go under the assumption that she's somehow related.
yes I've read the paper and the cat thing, but it seemed pretty random Undecided but again, maybe Gosho is just playing around this time Tongue
When it comes to detective stories, I go by the general rule of thumb that there is no such thing as coincidence. She fits the naming scheme so she probably has something to do with the case. Of course it's very likely that she has nothing to do with it and only serves to help Conan, but I doubt it.
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
Ah, okay. I thought you were correcting me.
With her name and her cat's name she obviously has something to do with it. It probably won't be revealed until Conan/Shinichi points it out to us, though. So far all we know is that she brought a famous detective and a Holmes freak to the scene of a soon-to-be mass murder. I simply go under the assumption that she's somehow related.
I was under that impression when I learn the name, but quickly dismissed it because I seriously thought if Gosho made her somehow related by randomly says she's random flew to Japan to randomly lose her cat and randomly invite strangers to her house to randomly be related in the case...... then Gosho is acting OOC
Then again, I could be wrong and there's a perfect explaination to why a Londonian would buy a plane ticket to trick a Japanese Detective into going to London ..... The city of Holmes short on Detectives?
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
Ah, okay. I thought you were correcting me.
With her name and her cat's name she obviously has something to do with it. It probably won't be revealed until Conan/Shinichi points it out to us, though. So far all we know is that she brought a famous detective and a Holmes freak to the scene of a soon-to-be mass murder. I simply go under the assumption that she's somehow related.
I was under that impression when I learn the name, but quickly dismissed it because I seriously thought if Gosho made her somehow related by randomly says she's random flew to Japan to randomly lose her cat and randomly invite strangers to her house to randomly be related in the case...... then Gosho is acting OOC
Then again, I could be wrong and there's a perfect explaination to why a Londonian would buy a plane ticket to trick a Japanese Detective into going to London ..... The city of Holmes short on Detectives?
You also can't dismiss the possibility that she is someone in disguise whether it be Vermouth, Yukito, Kaito, Akai, Bourbon, Gin, whoever.
Also if she had only appeared the once when she had invited them to England then I might not be too suspicious. However, she appeared again at the tennis match. Really now, what are the odds of them running into her there? It's almost like she was waiting for them.
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
Ah, okay. I thought you were correcting me.
With her name and her cat's name she obviously has something to do with it. It probably won't be revealed until Conan/Shinichi points it out to us, though. So far all we know is that she brought a famous detective and a Holmes freak to the scene of a soon-to-be mass murder. I simply go under the assumption that she's somehow related.
I was under that impression when I learn the name, but quickly dismissed it because I seriously thought if Gosho made her somehow related by randomly says she's random flew to Japan to randomly lose her cat and randomly invite strangers to her house to randomly be related in the case...... then Gosho is acting OOC
Then again, I could be wrong and there's a perfect explaination to why a Londonian would buy a plane ticket to trick a Japanese Detective into going to London ..... The city of Holmes short on Detectives?
You also can't dismiss the possibility that she is someone in disguise whether it be Vermouth, Yukito, Kaito, Akai, Bourbon, Gin, whoever.
Also if she had only appeared the once when she had invited them to England then I might not be too suspicious. However, she appeared again at the tennis match. Really now, what are the odds of them running into her there? It's almost like she was waiting for them.
The thing is, if the Org is the one behind her, why are they wasting time on Mouri? Might as well sniped him like Gin threatened to. The idea of her being Vermouth is well... ridiculous for me to believe, If Vermouth wants to approach Conan again, how about a less suspicious way? this is wayyy too fancy and flashy, the guards, the house, the international flight to London?
I understand completely how her present is suspicious, what I don't understand if how will her present fit in, because if she's not org, why wastes the time to go tricking a detective on the other side of the planet?
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
Ah, okay. I thought you were correcting me.
With her name and her cat's name she obviously has something to do with it. It probably won't be revealed until Conan/Shinichi points it out to us, though. So far all we know is that she brought a famous detective and a Holmes freak to the scene of a soon-to-be mass murder. I simply go under the assumption that she's somehow related.
I was under that impression when I learn the name, but quickly dismissed it because I seriously thought if Gosho made her somehow related by randomly says she's random flew to Japan to randomly lose her cat and randomly invite strangers to her house to randomly be related in the case...... then Gosho is acting OOC
Then again, I could be wrong and there's a perfect explaination to why a Londonian would buy a plane ticket to trick a Japanese Detective into going to London ..... The city of Holmes short on Detectives?
You also can't dismiss the possibility that she is someone in disguise whether it be Vermouth, Yukito, Kaito, Akai, Bourbon, Gin, whoever.
Also if she had only appeared the once when she had invited them to England then I might not be too suspicious. However, she appeared again at the tennis match. Really now, what are the odds of them running into her there? It's almost like she was waiting for them.
The thing is, if the Org is the one behind her, why are they wasting time on Mouri? Might as well sniped him like Gin threatened to. The idea of her being Vermouth is well... ridiculous for me to believe, If Vermouth wants to approach Conan again, how about a less suspicious way? this is wayyy too fancy and flashy, the guards, the house, the international flight to London?
I understand completely how her present is suspicious, what I don't understand if how will her present fit in, because if she's not org, why wastes the time to go tricking a detective on the other side of the planet?
xD I don't actually think she's disguised. I'm just saying that the possibility is still there however slim it might be.
Eve wrote:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek )
Isn't that what I said?
Weird, I've wrote something else too but it didn't appear D:
Diana the Goddess of the Moon ( Artemis in Greek ) applies if Diana is related to this case... but so far, how related is she?
Ah, okay. I thought you were correcting me.
With her name and her cat's name she obviously has something to do with it. It probably won't be revealed until Conan/Shinichi points it out to us, though. So far all we know is that she brought a famous detective and a Holmes freak to the scene of a soon-to-be mass murder. I simply go under the assumption that she's somehow related.
I was under that impression when I learn the name, but quickly dismissed it because I seriously thought if Gosho made her somehow related by randomly says she's random flew to Japan to randomly lose her cat and randomly invite strangers to her house to randomly be related in the case...... then Gosho is acting OOC
Then again, I could be wrong and there's a perfect explaination to why a Londonian would buy a plane ticket to trick a Japanese Detective into going to London ..... The city of Holmes short on Detectives?
You also can't dismiss the possibility that she is someone in disguise whether it be Vermouth, Yukito, Kaito, Akai, Bourbon, Gin, whoever.
Also if she had only appeared the once when she had invited them to England then I might not be too suspicious. However, she appeared again at the tennis match. Really now, what are the odds of them running into her there? It's almost like she was waiting for them.
The thing is, if the Org is the one behind her, why are they wasting time on Mouri? Might as well sniped him like Gin threatened to. The idea of her being Vermouth is well... ridiculous for me to believe, If Vermouth wants to approach Conan again, how about a less suspicious way? this is wayyy too fancy and flashy, the guards, the house, the international flight to London?
I understand completely how her present is suspicious, what I don't understand if how will her present fit in, because if she's not org, why wastes the time to go tricking a detective on the other side of the planet?
xD I don't actually think she's disguised. I'm just saying that the possibility is still there however slim it might be.
So slim that if it happens, I'll promptly take another leave from Conan to cool off , as it stands she can't be Org, not Yukiko as there were guards, especially if she's coincidentally seemed to be related directly to the case :p hence... Gosho better have a good explanation is all I'm saying ^^
Peace out ^^
Did anyone else think "Since when is Conan an Italian?" when he yelled "I'm-a Holmes apprentice? Anyway, I also thought the teddy bear was mighty suspicious, but I'm not so sure anymore. I really wanna know what Ran said in the Panel where Minerva was wearing glasses. It almost made me suspect she knows Conan's identity. Anyway, I'm kinda glad this sub-arcc is about to end, hopefully there'll be some real development soon.
We don't make mistakes. We have happy accidents.
Remember: A thin paint will stick to a thick paint.
Dus wrote:
Did anyone else think "Since when is Conan an Italian?" when he yelled "I'm-a Holmes apprentice?
Really? XD I was busy with other things.
Dus wrote:
Anyway, I also thought the teddy bear was mighty suspicious, but I'm not so sure anymore.
Why not? It's so obvious, it screams I'M A BOMB DAMMIT! What made you doubt?
Dus wrote:
I really wanna know what Ran said in the Panel where Minerva was wearing glasses. It almost made me suspect she knows Conan's identity.
According to Sushiknight, she said: "Be careful, protect Minverva even if you can't catch the culprit. I still have things that I need to tell Minerva."
Which is suspiciuos in that matter that Ran trusts a kid in protecting others.
To Misztina: If you're not Misztina and still read the spoiler then you're clearly suicidal.
Spoiler:
Misztina wrote:
Dus wrote:
Did anyone else think "Since when is Conan an Italian?" when he yelled "I'm-a Holmes apprentice?
Really? XD I was busy with other things.
Dus wrote:
Anyway, I also thought the teddy bear was mighty suspicious, but I'm not so sure anymore.
Why not? It's so obvious, it screams I'M A BOMB DAMMIT! What made you doubt?
Because it's so obvious. It might just be a red herring.
Dus wrote:
I really wanna know what Ran said in the Panel where Minerva was wearing glasses. It almost made me suspect she knows Conan's identity.
According to Sushiknight, she said: "Be careful, protect Minverva even if you can't catch the culprit. I still have things that I need to tell Minerva."
Which is suspiciuos in that matter that Ran trusts a kid in protecting others.
So it doesn't really explain why she's wearing glasses. Either it's a hint that she wants to ask Minerva about her suspicion that Conan is Shinichi or it's just a red herring. Or maybe she has already told her about her doubts. That would explain why she asked Conan if he can really do anything when he's so small.
Are we 100% sure this sub-arc will end with chapter 750? Cause there are quite a few unanswered questions. Or maybe they'll just carry over into another arc in London...
We don't make mistakes. We have happy accidents.
Remember: A thin paint will stick to a thick paint.
)
Isn't that what I said?
. I just wondered why they even mentioned it if it wasn't important.