Ai + Conan

[Misztina]

There's a difference between being a freak and being a genius. Conan and Haibara might be too smart for their ages, yes, but Ran's intelligence isn't average for her age. I'm not saying she's stupid, but she's not smart either. And the fact that she, just sometimes, learns things quickly isn't enough to say that she's intelligent. You still see her, most of the time, being clueless about the easiest things such as Agasa-hakase's quizes. Even Sonoko is smart enough to figure them out, sometimes.

Maybe Ran is to "pure" to naive in this sense. The Agasa-puzzle-things are canon, so if you go by anime originals a movies you'll end up with a different Ran again. Because unluckily the anime sort of forces Ran into the helpless girl-role, see the new trailer's "Save me, Shinichi" line.

I'd also add that people often argue that Ran is not so bright, because she can't reveal Conan's true identity whereas she is the one who constantly brings up this matter although Conan and co. try their very best to prove that Conan is not Shinichi. Ran has a very flexible way of thinking, she basicly figured out 3-4 times in the manga, who Conan really was and if you look at her confession in Desperate Revival you can see that even Shinichi says: "She basicly/practically got/hit the point."

We know that people suspect that Conan is not an ordinary child, see Takagi, Sato etc., but none of them would actually think that he was shrunk by a drunk. And Ran did think of that, don't forget this.
---
And (forgot to quote here sorry) yes, Shinichi first indeed wanted to keep his identity in secret, but again, in Deperate Revival he wanted to tell Ran anything, because that was the easiest and probably the best way. However Haibara opposed his idea and offered a third way, in order to protect her and Conan's identity and secret. Yeah, later on Shinichi again decided not to hurt Ran's feelings by telling her how he feels, and who he is, but at that point, Haibara was the one who created a new option for him.

About the protecting Ran part: since the BO kills off all the ones related to their targets, I don't think that they would observe or ask their relatives whether they knew about the secret or not. Remember that Vermouth almost killed Jodie, eventhough what can a child know about her father's secret work for the FBI?
Actually Shinichi's (mainly his) stupidity lies in the fact that he thinks keeping his identity in secret would save Ran if anything happen to him. That's nonsense. If Conan is ever captured, those who lived with him, including the already suspicious Kogoro and of course Ran will be killed. But maybe Conan is too confident in himelf. If Ran would know his secret maybe she could prepare for extreme situations, such as BO attacks or so. But if she doesn't know a thing, and doesn't know whom she could trust and so on, she would end up in dangerous situations. ike the Halloween Party case.  That's why will her and Okiya's interactions will be interesting I guess.

[Girl19]

Maybe Ran is to "pure" to naive in this sense. The Agasa-puzzle-things are canon, so if you go by anime originals a movies you'll end up with a different Ran again. Because unluckily the anime sort of forces Ran into the helpless girl-role, see the new trailer's "Save me, Shinichi" line.

Yes, many Ran-clueless-moments aren't canon, but then again many other things (such as several RanXShinichi moments) are not canon as well. If we start taking in consideration only the canon stuff, then the story would be different, maybe much more realistic, because everything is exaggerated in the movies. However, the thing is, we cannot forget about the non canon stories because, either we like it or not, they are still "part of" the story. And I think, but don’t hold me to it, Gosho himself wouldn’t tolerate a major change in the story or characters unless it fits the story and he agrees with it.

I'd also add that people often argue that Ran is not so bright, because she can't reveal Conan's true identity whereas she is the one who constantly brings up this matter although Conan and co. try their very best to prove that Conan is not Shinichi. Ran has a very flexible way of thinking, she basicly figured out 3-4 times in the manga, who Conan really was and if you look at her confession in Desperate Revival you can see that even Shinichi says: "She basicly/practically got/hit the point."

We know that people suspect that Conan is not an ordinary child, see Takagi, Sato etc., but none of them would actually think that he was shrunk by a drunk. And Ran did think of that, don't forget this.

I think it's very normal that Ran has suspected, many times, that Conan and Shinichi are the same person. Note that she's the only one who knew him since ever; so it would have been quite strange if she couldn't figure out the truth, actually. Sato, Takagi and the many other people who noticed that Conan isn't an ordinary 7-year-old didn't know him before, so it's understandable that the idea didn't cross their minds. I don't think we can compare here.

And (forgot to quote here sorry) yes, Shinichi first indeed wanted to keep his identity in secret, but again, in Deperate Revival he wanted to tell Ran anything, because that was the easiest and probably the best way. However Haibara opposed his idea and offered a third way, in order to protect her and Conan's identity and secret. Yeah, later on Shinichi again decided not to hurt Ran's feelings by telling her how he feels, and who he is, but at that point, Haibara was the one who created a new option for him.

It's not like Haibara forced him to keep it a secret. She gave him 3 choices yet he made his decision of not telling Ran again. And since the start, even before Haibara's appearance, he decided not to tell her the truth, hence the "Conan Edogawa" name, etc. So I think it's quite absurd that people insist on putting the blame on Haibara every time something between Ran and Shinichi doesn't turn out well, sometimes even accusing her of "hypocrisy". How lame is that! All she’s been doing after her betrayal to the organisation was trying to make amends to Conan. She's been trying hard to make the cure for his sake; I don't think she even wants it for herself since there's a good possibility she will decide to stay in a kid's body in the end. Neither did she tell Conan about her (possible) feelings for him, she wouldn’t interfere between him and Ran.

About the protecting Ran part: since the BO kills off all the ones related to their targets, I don't think that they would observe or ask their relatives whether they knew about the secret or not. Remember that Vermouth almost killed Jodie, eventhough what can a child know about her father's secret work for the FBI?
Actually Shinichi's (mainly his) stupidity lies in the fact that he thinks keeping his identity in secret would save Ran if anything happen to him. That's nonsense. If Conan is ever captured, those who lived with him, including the already suspicious Kogoro and of course Ran will be killed. But maybe Conan is too confident in himelf. If Ran would know his secret maybe she could prepare for extreme situations, such as BO attacks or so. But if she doesn't know a thing, and doesn't know whom she could trust and so on, she would end up in dangerous situations. ike the Halloween Party case.  That's why will her and Okiya's interactions will be interesting I guess.

I agree with you here, maybe Conan didn't make the right decision by not telling Ran the truth. But his intentions are good. By not telling her the truth, he believes it will keep her out of danger. It's not like it amuses him to keep it a secret, is it. And, even if Ran knew the truth, do you think she would worry less about Conan/Shinichi? Let's suppose he told her everything since the beginning. I don't think he would live with her any longer. Even if Kogoro didn't know, Ran wouldn't feel comfortable living with a "grown-up" Conan in the same house everyday. So, avoiding some awkward situations, he would have to go back to his own house and live there alone. And Ran will get quite worried about him again; and Conan, himself, will be more worried about her because he can't watch her constantly like he does now. So I don't think if he tells her the truth it will change much to the story. The only thing that will change is that Ran won’t have doubts about Shinichi, but she will worry about him even more. Just look at her now, she doesn't know about the BO's existence yet she worries a lot about Shinichi. What will happen when she actually knows?

[Ran]

I don't know why (some of you ) think that the love story between Ran and Shinichi is baby-stupid-love-moments or silly moments , seriously, i started watching DC because of THIS love story because them apart (morally) and close (living together) is just too original as an idea, from other mangas and i found their love too pure and innocent , i read many mangas but somehow , i felt more attached to this love story and i will feel very sorry if they don't end together!! As for Haibara I know she's SOMETIMES cool and mature but i dont like her too much b'cause she's attached to the past and she's rather cold ::freezing::
Seriously (sorry for AI & CONAN fans) this couple i mean AI & Conan just doesn't sound right for me!! i just love their friendship and i don't think Haibara loves him like most of u said but it's just admiration as a .... we can say ... an idol!!
some says they have an evidence about the EXISTENCE of this love just show it to me and I LOOSE!!!!!

[Nyarl]

"Her" claim?! This had been, since ever, Conan's claim before it was Haibara's claim. Conan decided, way before Haibara's appearance, that he wouldn't let Ran know, in any way, about the organisation's existence. And how can this be "hypocrisy"? Haibara isn't a bad person, she would never tolerate Ran or anyone else to be hurt because of her.

Not really. The first reason was from Agasa and was a pretty sensible one about security. Keeping the secret minimizes number of possible ways that the Org. could find out, thus minimizing the risk that they'd come back to finish the job and catch Ran in the crossfire. Of course, Shin'ichi felt bad about making Ran worry and blew a lot of that security by telling her he's still alive (but apparently never warned her not to tell Sonoko, and thus probably pretty much whole school). There's still some security if the Org. don't know where he really is, but that's been weakening as more people learn the truth about him. The worst example is {spoiler for volume 60+/ep508}

Spoiler:

telling Eisuke the truth to keep him from courting Ran.

Haibara is the one who told Shin'ichi that the Org. would make targets of those who know about him. That was hypocrisy, something she claims but doesn't really believe, because, from her thoughts on the bus in volume 29, she knows that the Org. would kill people for merely associating with either of them. I don't think Haibara is a hypocrite out of malice. She just doesn't want Ran involved at all.

LOL, what's with the "Holmes style deduction" again?? I don't get it, who cares about the style deduction as long as there actually IS a deduction?

The difference is the complexity of the deduction. I don't doubt Haibara could solve an even harder deductive logic puzzle than the Conveniance Store case without Conan's help, but we haven't seen her do so.

[Rellik]

just on Girl19's comments about my post - all i did was rephrase haibarakudo's (thanks for pointin out my mistake Nyarl  ) post b4hand.

Everything i sed is true but i kno clearly well i was being extremely str8forward and i kno the relationship between ai and conan is much more deeper, i only did tat to show tat haibarakudo's post sounded rely annoyin.

[Misztina]

@Girl19: I can sort of agree with you on what you said. (in everything, generally)

I tend to take the anime and manga very seperately, because the anime tends to add things that might be a bit out of the manga's context. I'm too strict in this question, so if it is not Gosho's work aka. Anime Original then I cannot accept it as part of the character development or anything.

I'm not really blaming Haibara for hypocricy or anything, indeed it was Shinichi's choice, not her, she just offered a possibility for him.

lol, funny how Ai+Conan topics turn out to be a disagreement on Ran's character.

But I cannot really say anything "new" about her. @.@

[Nyarl]

lol, funny how Ai+Conan topics turn out to be a disagreement on Ran's character.

But I cannot really say anything "new" about her. @.@

Heh, what about Ran's ability explain obtuse Chinese proverbs to Kogoro? We already knew she has a good knowledge of the events in Three Kingdoms, but not that she actually has a fairly deep understanding of its dialogue. Evidence that she's more than superficially literate. (Of course, the know-it-all has to go and prove he's the title character of his manga and that Ran's knowledge and insight is again redundant to the plot,

Spoiler:

unless someone decides she's as much a threat as Koumei

.)

Okay, now it's complete threadjacking... so I'd better shut up.

[mam]

First of, sorry for my long rave
Second, my bad English 

Because it's a topic of Ai + Conan, Ran must be in the picture eh

Thank you Misztina and Girl19, you have the point about Shinichi not telling Ran the truth. And although I wholeheartedly disagree with Girl19 about her comment of RanxShin childish love, I really like her insight of Shinichi dilemma at this moment. He has gone too far from the point of reveal his identity to Ran now, he can’t turn back. At the beginning, and up to Desperate Revival arc, Shinichi and Haibara had not had many clues from the BO, or the support from FBI. Thing has gradually changed after the Black Impact Ep345, but to tell Ran the truth, how would Ran act? --> refer to Girl19’s post.

I agree with you here, maybe Conan didn't make the right decision by not telling Ran the truth. But his intentions are good. By not telling her the truth, he believes it will keep her out of danger. It's not like it amuses him to keep it a secret, is it. And, even if Ran knew the truth, do you think she would worry less about Conan/Shinichi? Let's suppose he told her everything since the beginning. I don't think he would live with her any longer. Even if Kogoro didn't know, Ran wouldn't feel comfortable living with a "grown-up" Conan in the same house everyday. So, avoiding some awkward situations, he would have to go back to his own house and live there alone. And Ran will get quite worried about him again; and Conan, himself, will be more worried about her because he can't watch her constantly like he does now. So I don't think if he tells her the truth it will change much to the story. The only thing that will change is that Ran won’t have doubts about Shinichi, but she will worry about him even more. Just look at her now, she doesn't know about the BO's existence yet she worries a lot about Shinichi. What will happen when she actually knows?

And so, that was Shinichi's decision, nothing to do with Haibara. Agree !!!

I think it's very normal that Ran has suspected, many times, that Conan and Shinichi are the same person. Note that she's the only one who knew him since ever; so it would have been quite strange if she couldn't figure out the truth, actually. Sato, Takagi and the many other people who noticed that Conan isn't an ordinary 7-year-old didn't know him before, so it's understandable that the idea didn't cross their minds. I don't think we can compare here.

Yes, Ran might be clueless, but I would never call Ran “not-so-brightâ€

[mam]

Back to the topic of Ai+Conan 

I don't know why (some of you ) think that the love story between Ran and Shinichi is baby-stupid-love-moments or silly moments , seriously, i started watching DC because of THIS love story because them apart (morally) and close (living together) is just too original as an idea, from other mangas and i found their love too pure and innocent , i read many mangas but somehow , i felt more attached to this love story and i will feel very sorry if they don't end together!! As for Haibara I know she's SOMETIMES cool and mature but i dont like her too much b'cause she's attached to the past and she's rather cold ::freezing::
Seriously (sorry for AI & CONAN fans) this couple i mean AI & Conan just doesn't sound right for me!! i just love their friendship and i don't think Haibara loves him like most of u said but it's just admiration as a .... we can say ... an idol!!
some says they have an evidence about the EXISTENCE of this love just show it to me and I LOOSE!!!!!

I would not call Haibara cold, she’s rather calm, and mature, that’s why I like her.

The whole DC is also the story about how one develops his/her character. Shinichi is no more arrogant, but confident, more careful and wiser act. Ran is less hot temper and matures her feminine personality – that is faithfully and devotedly waiting for her love.
And Haibara, her character development is really interesting and convincing. She was cold, she had never trust anyone before. But she has learnt about the warm friendship with Agasa and Detective Boys, how to care about others’ feelings, how to face the problem – not to run away. She has learnt a lot from people around her, Conan - obviously, and not that I want to praise Ran, but yes, also from Ran, either directly from Ran’s action or indirectly from Shinichi’s story.

Manga 45- file 5 – Anime episode 367 – about the warm friendship

Spoiler:

Manga39-File 8 Torn Friendship, Anime Ep. 329-330

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Haibara’s past was a sad story. But it was not her fault. And once she changes to the positive, why not support her?
Haibara’s witty comments are always hilarious. And I love seeing Conan x Ai interaction, not their romance, you know I’m a ShinxRan shipper; they’re just so cute together.

Here, she’s a devil, ha ha ha
(Manga 45 –file 11) – Anime374-375

Spoiler:

[H...Haibara]

Funny how, after watching all these episodes, you still don't get that Haibara isn't the type to draw attention on her. She, countless times, finds the culprit's identity and often gets many hints even before Conan notices them. Just because she doesn't make a "deduction show", it doesn't mean that she's unable to, she just isn't the type to do so. Besides, as someone said above, she's a (genius) scientist, yet she can figure out hard puzzles and without Conan's hints. Conan, on the other hand, is a great detective but he doesn't know as much as Haibara at sciences

Just putting this out there, she's sometimes shocked and surprised by Conan's deductions and only occasionally points things out before Conan does, but yes that is also because she is a very intelligent person.

[Nyarl]

Thank you Misztina and Girl19, you have the point about Shinichi not telling Ran the truth. And although I wholeheartedly disagree with Girl19 about her comment of RanxShin childish love, I really like her insight of Shinichi dilemma at this moment. He has gone too far from the point of reveal his identity to Ran now, he can’t turn back. At the beginning, and up to Desperate Revival arc, Shinichi and Haibara had not had many clues from the BO, or the support from FBI. Thing has gradually changed after the Black Impact Ep345, but to tell Ran the truth, how would Ran act? --> refer to Girl19’s post.

Ran wouldn't necessarily kick him out just because she knew he was Shin'ichi. She didn't when she decided to quietly play along between volume 14 and 26. She did a pretty good job treating him like a kid for the most part, but found a couple of things that she used to consider cute with Conan to be too embarrassing (ie, crawling onto her lap, bathing together).

I agree with you here, maybe Conan didn't make the right decision by not telling Ran the truth. But his intentions are good. By not telling her the truth, he believes it will keep her out of danger. It's not like it amuses him to keep it a secret, is it. And, even if Ran knew the truth, do you think she would worry less about Conan/Shinichi? Let's suppose he told her everything since the beginning. I don't think he would live with her any longer. Even if Kogoro didn't know, Ran wouldn't feel comfortable living with a "grown-up" Conan in the same house everyday. So, avoiding some awkward situations, he would have to go back to his own house and live there alone. And Ran will get quite worried about him again; and Conan, himself, will be more worried about her because he can't watch her constantly like he does now. So I don't think if he tells her the truth it will change much to the story. The only thing that will change is that Ran won’t have doubts about Shinichi, but she will worry about him even more. Just look at her now, she doesn't know about the BO's existence yet she worries a lot about Shinichi. What will happen when she actually knows?

And so, that was Shinichi's decision, nothing to do with Haibara. Agree !!!

You folks are letting Haibara (and Shin'ichi) off the hook too easily. In addition to the argument that the Org. kills those who know about them, she said one of the ways they might learn who knows about them is that she would tell them if they made her the right offer. That wasn't just offering him a new option, that was trying to persuade him (coerce him!) to take it. Also, Shin'ichi didn't take the drug to fool Ran to protect her. He only took it to resume his old life (re-read volume 26... seriously... he even went back to school after the festival, he just didn't care about keeping his survival a secret from the Org.*). He probably thought he could handle the Org. in his teen body, and didn't give much thought to the danger he was potentially bringing to his entire school, much less Ran, should the Org. learn of his survival. The Org. did have an agent at the school, remember, luckily she had her own plans and didn't tell the rest of the Org. about him. Just because he intends no harm doesn't mean his reckless ego doesn't actually endanger everyone.

* ETA: At least until his date with Ran, when he told Megure to keep his involvement with that case quiet. That doesn't excuse his previous recklessness, though.

[Rellik]

Thank you Misztina and Girl19, you have the point about Shinichi not telling Ran the truth. And although I wholeheartedly disagree with Girl19 about her comment of RanxShin childish love, I really like her insight of Shinichi dilemma at this moment. He has gone too far from the point of reveal his identity to Ran now, he can’t turn back. At the beginning, and up to Desperate Revival arc, Shinichi and Haibara had not had many clues from the BO, or the support from FBI. Thing has gradually changed after the Black Impact Ep345, but to tell Ran the truth, how would Ran act? --> refer to Girl19’s post.

sheesh you ppl shud spend at least 1 second puttin up paragraphs, especially the ones tat writes half a page of stuffs, who wnts to read 1000 words all bunched up together?

anyways Ran seems to accept Conan as a kid agen, she did recently ask Conan wether he wnts to take a bath together or not.

[Girl19]

Haibara is the one who told Shin'ichi that the Org. would make targets of those who know about him. That was hypocrisy, something she claims but doesn't really believe, because, from her thoughts on the bus in volume 29, she knows that the Org. would kill people for merely associating with either of them. I don't think Haibara is a hypocrite out of malice. She just doesn't want Ran involved at all.

Let's suppose you're right about it, that Haibara doesn't want Ran involved, but do you have an idea why she doesn't want so? This isn't an ironic question or anything, I really want to understand your point of view here because I've always been thinking about it in a different way, thinking that she just wanted to protect Ran and the others...

The difference is the complexity of the deduction. I don't doubt Haibara could solve an even harder deductive logic puzzle than the Conveniance Store case without Conan's help, but we haven't seen her do so.

Because, as I said before, Haibara's not the type to draw attention to her. I'm not saying that Ran is, because I'm sure if Haibara was in the same situation as Ran (a crime occurred and nobody's around to give a deduction show), she'd solve the case too even if it means she'd attract people's attention. But in a normal situation, she wouldn't.

just on Girl19's comments about my post - all i did was rephrase haibarakudo's (thanks for pointin out my mistake Nyarl  ) post b4hand.

Everything i sed is true but i kno clearly well i was being extremely str8forward and i kno the relationship between ai and conan is much more deeper, i only did tat to show tat haibarakudo's post sounded rely annoyin.

Then I'm sorry for misunderstanding your point, and I do agree some comments really are annoying. We have a perfect example just few posts above, something about "loosing" as if we were in a war or playing a game here. I think it's obvious whom I'm talking about...

@Girl19: I can sort of agree with you on what you said. (in everything, generally)

I tend to take the anime and manga very seperately, because the anime tends to add things that might be a bit out of the manga's context. I'm too strict in this question, so if it is not Gosho's work aka. Anime Original then I cannot accept it as part of the character development or anything.

I'm not really blaming Haibara for hypocricy or anything, indeed it was Shinichi's choice, not her, she just offered a possibility for him.

I agree with you, I sometimes think the story would have been much clearer if there were no anime originals and movies... The non-canon stories just mix things up sometimes. lol However, we can't ignore them because they're still part of the series/story.
And about the "hypocrisy" thing, I wasn't talking about you but about another comment.

[Girl19]

@ "mam": Thank you for understanding my vision of things. I know it's a forum and people come from different places so everyone has a different background and I think it affects our ways of thinking too, so I'd like to apologize if sometimes my ideas don't seem clear or if my english is weird...
Back to the topic:

[quote="mam"]
Yes, Ran might be clueless, but I would never call Ran “not-so-brightâ€

[gogolooks]

Theres something going on with those two. Honestly, i would rather see conan with Ai at the end. Actually, nvm. Watching all the older episodes reminds me of why ran is special.

You know, I totally agree. IDC who Shinichi is in love with. We all know from the start he was in love with Sherlock Holmes(Don't think wrong) And after he turned to Conan, it was Ran who changed him whole. He wasn't really into Ran from the start. I really would like to see Ai and Conan (Shiho and Shinichi) in the end. They are more interesting than Ai and Shinichi. If Gosho Aoyama made Shinichi and Ran paired in the end, all the Conan Episodes would be pointless. But that's my opinion. IN an episode when Ayumi asked Ai if she likes Conan, Ai said "No". And she probably said that becuz she had a heart. She didn't want Conan to feel sorry for Ai because he already liked Ran.
So my biggest wish for the end of Detective Conan would be Shinichi aznd Shiho. If SHinichi ended up with Ran, who would be with Ai? Seriously,nobody in particular, Because Ai really likes Shinichi.