Files 743-752 Discussion Thread

[Eve]

I wouldn't call it an odd mix. They're probably the two mythologies Westerners know the most about.

Gosho is taking stab and being Westerners using bad Engrish and what he assumed..... if that's the case.... I'm insulted

[mangaluva]

I wouldn't call it an odd mix. They're probably the two mythologies Westerners know the most about.

Gosho is taking stab and being Westerners using bad Engrish and what he assumed..... if that's the case.... I'm insulted

I'm not. You should've met some of my Higher English class.

That said, it is true that westerners probably know the most about Greek/Roman and Judeo-Christian mythology. I think I probably know more about Egyptian mythology than Judeo-Christian, but that's just a personal hobby.

[Dus]

I wouldn't call it an odd mix. They're probably the two mythologies Westerners know the most about.

Gosho is taking stab and being Westerners using bad Engrish and what he assumed..... if that's the case.... I'm insulted

I'm not. You should've met some of my Higher English class.

That said, it is true that westerners probably know the most about Greek/Roman and Judeo-Christian mythology. I think I probably know more about Egyptian mythology than Judeo-Christian, but that's just a personal hobby.

Egyptian mythology is anything but European. Maybe he just chose those names to give the whole arc a Western feel?
Or maybe he just doesn't know any English first names? That German guy had an... unusual name as well.

[mangaluva]

I wouldn't call it an odd mix. They're probably the two mythologies Westerners know the most about.

Gosho is taking stab and being Westerners using bad Engrish and what he assumed..... if that's the case.... I'm insulted

I'm not. You should've met some of my Higher English class.

That said, it is true that westerners probably know the most about Greek/Roman and Judeo-Christian mythology. I think I probably know more about Egyptian mythology than Judeo-Christian, but that's just a personal hobby.

Egyptian mythology is anything but European. Maybe he just chose those names to give the whole arc a Western feel?
Or maybe he just doesn't know any English first names? That German guy had an... unusual name as well.

I was talking about mythologies westerners know about, not western mythology. If we were going for the latter category, you could refer to Celtic mythology as well, but most old Scottish and Irish myths aren't as well-known, largely because they aren't considered kid-friendly.

[Dus]

King Arthur and Avalon would certainly have been more fitting for England. But keep in mind that this was called a European arc. So maybe there will be other countries to visit

Spoiler:

especially if that mysterious mystery lady turns out to be Yukiko

.

I was kinda talking about both. Roman/Greek mythology and Christian mythology is something people might associate with Europe and something most European will know something about.

[RedPoppy]

Another mystery is...

Spoiler:

the inscription next to the hole on the bridge "The Valley of Fear". Now we got reference to Arthur Conan Doyle's novel about Sherlock Holmes. Some information from Wikipedia:

The Valley of Fear is the final Sherlock Holmes novel by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The story was first published in the Strand Magazine between September 1914 and May 1915. The first book edition was published in New York on 27 February 1915.

Holmes and Watson are asked by Scotland Yard and the local police to consult on the death of John Douglas of Birlstone Manor, Sussex, whose body was found dead in a room of his house, shot in the face with a sawed-off shotgun. Since Birlstone Manor is surrounded by a moat, there is a mystery as to how the murderer came and went. Other clues include an unclaimed bicycle, a single dumbbell, and an appearance of conspiracy between the dead man's wife and his best friend. Eventually Holmes determines that the dead man was not Douglas himself but an enemy who attacked Douglas with the shotgun. Douglas, who is indeed alive, appears from a hiding-place and gives Dr. Watson a narrative he has written up explaining the origins of the enmity between himself and the dead man. This narrative forms the second part of the novel.

The plot of Douglas's narrative is based very loosely on the real-life activities of the Molly Maguires and particularly of Pinkerton agent James McParland. In 1875 an Irish Pinkerton agent (Douglas, whose real name is Birdy Edwards) infiltrates a criminal gang, the "Scowrers" (which coincides with the local lodge of the Freemen, a national men's mutual benefit society, and also to some extent with labor union management) in Vermissa Valley, in the Pennsylvania coal fields. The gang is primarily involved in a kind of protection racket extorting large sums of money from local businessmen and mine owners, and it also avenges any slights felt by its members (one mine owner is killed because he refused to employ drunkards). Edwards/Douglas uses the name John McMurdo. He courts his landlord's daughter Ettie, winning her love despite a rivalry with another Scowrer. After three months, he has gathered plenty of evidence against the gang. He intercepts, by luck, a warning to a gang member that the famous Pinkerton detective Birdy Edwards is in the region. He turns this around and tells the gang that he has met a man who must be Edwards and that they can trap him. When the gang's ringleaders are assembled waiting for Birdy Edwards to arrive, McMurdo informs them that he is Birdy Edwards; they are all arrested, with the help of the police, who have surrounded the building. Edwards leaves the valley with his beloved Ettie, and they are married.

Edwards later became John Douglas, made a fortune in the California gold fields, and retired to England, where he married his second wife. Former Scowrers pursued him in California and then at Birlstone; the man who was killed in the struggle with the shotgun was McMurdo's rival for Ettie twenty years earlier. Holmes realises that these avengers hired Professor Moriarty to assist them in locating Edwards/Douglas in England, and warns Douglas and his wife that their lives are in danger and they must leave England. In an epilogue, we learn that Douglas has died, apparently washed overboard while fleeing to South Africa.

The Valley of Fear, notable for Professor Moriarty's involvement, is set in the late 1880s, some years before The Final Problem, the short story in which Moriarty was introduced. This introduces a logical difficulty, as in The Final Problem Dr Watson has never heard of Moriarty, whereas by the end of The Valley Of Fear he is, or should be, familiar with his name and character. The "Moriarty" element in the story is tied into the fate of the informer in the story. It ties the Molly Maguire background to another sensation of that period. This was the death of James Carey, the informer on the Irish National Invincibles who committed the Phoenix Park Murders of Lord Frederick Cavendish and Thomas Burke. Carey was shot on board a ship off the coast of Natal in 1883 by Patrick O'Donnell, a committed Irish revolutionary. O'Donnell had relatives in the Mollies, and briefly visited the Pennsylvania coal mining district, supposedly looking for the suspected informer among them. He left the U.S. long before the Mollies were broken up. It is just possible that William Pinkerton the son and successor to Allan Pinkerton in running the famous detective agency, mentioned this and much of the story to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and the latter took the fate of Carey for the similar fate of Jack Douglas on board a ship off St. Helena (on the opposite side of Africa). Although it looks like an accident, Holmes is sure from a message he gets that Moriarty arranged the death of Douglas as an example of the fate of informers.

But what is has to do with the case??? Any ideas???

[Misztina]

Well, I don't know. A Londoner could probably answer this...

Spoiler:

If I see it correctly Conan read that sign on the Westminster Bridge, but I don't know whether taht sign really exists and if it does, why. Unfortunately I haven't read The Valley of Fear yet, but I guess the story has connection Westminster, I'm not sure about the bridge though.

I liked Sere's nursery rhyme and if we connect The Book of Revelations to John, then the St. John Chaple(haple, was it,?) should be the answer, but "Poker and Tongs"? Nah!

I did a little research, but I only found out two things: in Wimbledon the tennis players must wear white, so the white back thing might actually refer to Minerva again (but I think this was mentioned before) and belive it or not, the single women champions there recieve  a "Venus Rosewater Dish" decorated with mythological things. Pure coincindence? Maybe that would make sense if besides Minerva, Ares and Apollo, Diana would be a tennis fan too.

What makes me feel confused is that I don't think that teh other kids were told that there will be a murder in front of their eyes, that might just be a rushed assumption by Conan and co.. Maybe the "bad guy" wanted to hide a "leaf in the forest" and his real target is indead the finals of Wimbledon.

[Dus]

Spoiler: 745 and a Holmes novel

Just finished the Valley of Fear. I doubt the plot of the book has much bearing towards the riddle. It's set in Sussex and California. There is, however, this whole business of the Scowrers and how they're being infiltrated. Maybe there is a traitor in the BO (other than Kir)? The other note-worthy thing about it would be that the corpse isn't who he pretends to be.

[Sere]

Well, I don't know. A Londoner could probably answer this...

Spoiler:

If I see it correctly Conan read that sign on the Westminster Bridge, but I don't know whether taht sign really exists and if it does, why. Unfortunately I haven't read The Valley of Fear yet, but I guess the story has connection Westminster, I'm not sure about the bridge though.

I liked Sere's nursery rhyme and if we connect The Book of Revelations to John, then the St. John Chaple(haple, was it,?) should be the answer, but "Poker and Tongs"? Nah!

I did a little research, but I only found out two things: in Wimbledon the tennis players must wear white, so the white back thing might actually refer to Minerva again (but I think this was mentioned before) and belive it or not, the single women champions there recieve  a "Venus Rosewater Dish" decorated with mythological things. Pure coincindence? Maybe that would make sense if besides Minerva, Ares and Apollo, Diana would be a tennis fan too.

What makes me feel confused is that I don't think that teh other kids were told that there will be a murder in front of their eyes, that might just be a rushed assumption by Conan and co.. Maybe the "bad guy" wanted to hide a "leaf in the forest" and his real target is indead the finals of Wimbledon.

I really do like your comment :-)

Spoiler:

Yeah, acutally I think it just must have something to do with Wimbledon, cause else, why did he bother to show?

[Dashin]

Meh, I only counted from when the translation of 744 hit.  Before that, who knew what the hell Gosho was trying to convey.

Well, actually I mentioned it in the post just avobe the one you quoted.

[GinRei]

Whoops.  Yours is actually the one I linked, but your names were so similar that I went with the one that was easier to spell, I guess. 

[Eve]

Whoops.  Yours is actually the one I linked, but your names were so similar that I went with the one that was easier to spell, I guess. 

Oops, I didn't bother to check o.o cuz I trusted Ginrei's judgment

[baka1412]

I posted this on general board, but i just had to put it in here too...

Spoiler: Seating position during their return trip

Seat Number    aisle              Seat Number            aisle          Seat Number
11a-11b-11c    *aisle*    RAN-SHINICHI-SHIHO    *aisle*    13a-KOGORO-AGASA

I'll send Gosho a banquet of flower if he do that...

[Kemm]

I still haven't read or seen file 745 yet, but given what I catched from 744

Spoiler:

I think it has something to do with the Big Ben, if Conan deciphered correctly last sentence (but comparing his translation with the real message, and the very strange typo in 'cerebrate'[sic], there's a reasonable doubt).

I intended to post this several days ago, but like everyone I had to wait until the manual activation of my account, so sorry if my comment is a bit outdated.

[Eve]

I still haven't read or seen file 745 yet, but given what I catched from 744

Spoiler:

I think it has something to do with the Big Ben, if Conan deciphered correctly last sentence (but comparing his translation with the real message, and the very strange typo in 'cerebrate'[sic], there's a reasonable doubt).

I intended to post this several days ago, but like everyone I had to wait until the manual activation of my account, so sorry if my comment is a bit outdated.

Not at all, we appreciate participation no matter how late or on med weird they are ^^