671 Murderer
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God
Posts: 8
671 Murderer
I think that multiple people were involved in the murders, all of them are relatives of the victims. It worked probably like this Relative A kills victim B, Relative B kills victim C, Relative C kills victim A. Everyone gets money.
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hakkaino7
- Purple Monkey Dishwasher at your service
Posts: 482- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
Spoiler:
Akonyl wrote: the second law of thermodynamics states that all topics will tend towards maximal offtopicness.
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TheBlind
- Insane Vigilante of JUSTICE!
Posts: 1280
Re: 671 Murderer
I don't know about this one. Being that each relative except the last one(the son) got a an inheritance or insurance money they would know that when the investigation was launched they would be on the top of the possible suspects list. I don't see them committing the murder under these conditions. Plus it doesn't fit with Conan's hint at the end.God wrote: I think that multiple people were involved in the murders, all of them are relatives of the victims. It worked probably like this Relative A kills victim B, Relative B kills victim C, Relative C kills victim A. Everyone gets money.
This one is possible. So far, I'm under the impression the hint Conan left at the end means that the first three victims where part of some group but made sure to keep it hidden due to their activities and where targeted because of this. As for the recent victim, he could be the serial killer like mentioned or he could of been part of the group I mentioned and began to brag on his show to the serial killer. He could of been under the impression the killer vanish and decided to use the chance to brag on his show but unknowingly revealed himself to be the last member of the group.hakkaino7 wrote:Spoiler:
The Faces of Evil
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God
Posts: 8
Re: 671 Murderer
The new victim can not be the serial killer since the same mode of operation was used on this victim as well, a letter carved into his back.
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Nyarl
- Lost Detective
Posts: 670
Re: 671 Murderer
Eiki, the last person Takagi tried to interview in 671, was hiding in his room when the serial killer killed his father. He probably heard the killer humming "Let It Be" and saw the carved letter when he finally came out after his mother came home. My problem is how he learned about the significance of the "ichi" scar so that he'd obfuscate it by carving the "N" sideways... I guess the police mentioned it when they were around to interview him, not thinking it would hurt anything since he was a kid and not a suspect {EDIT: I suppose they could simply have asked if he knew anyone with such a scar, just to check}. If that's not true, but there was a scar on Hiramune's back under the "Z", then the police themselves become suspects.God wrote: The new victim can not be the serial killer since the same mode of operation was used on this victim as well, a letter carved into his back.
Last edited by Nyarl on November 11th, 2008, 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
é»’ã
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Kristantei
Posts: 56- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
I think I'm prepared to post my deduction for this case.
I can say that I'm not sure about the meaning of the "Parents" and "Run Over" comment. I'm not so sure he was talking about actually parents being hit. It could be that the boy heard something wrong. I'm wondering if this could be some kind of mahjong statement. I swear, mahjong has been used enough in this series. I should learn the game. Just so I'm not left with a gap in knowledge like that.
I can speak for certainty that the original killer was a man. Remember that one of the posers from the previous case actually met the killer in the MEN's bathhouse. The guy he got the scar on the back idea from. This person even bragged how he got it from a police officer. If this guy was close enough to see the ichi mark on his 'naked' back I would also think he would of noticed if this person was a woman.
I do want to say that it should be completely possible to get a blood DNA match off that sword to the killer. The fact that his blood is the freshest makes it even easier.
I'm of the mind that this recent killer is not the same one from twenty and fifteen years ago. I think the most recent victim, Hiramune Douji, is the killer from the original attacks. The message of 'Ctrl+C" he left wasn't to say anything about the photocopy machine. He was trying to say this attacker is a copycat. I don't see why he would be so desperate to hide this message from the killer unless it was very damaging. That leaves the strong possibility that this most recent killer is 25 year old, Nabei Eiki. If it wasn't discovered that there was a copycat he would never been suspected. Right now they are assuming this killer is the same one from years ago. Eiki was 10 years old when his father died and 5 years old when the first killings happened.
That also explains why Eiki would try and cover the scar on Hiramune's back with the carving of a Z or N. If Hiramune is never suspected of being the original killer Eiki could escape all suspicion.
Eiki is also the only suspect that we know of that was present during one of the murders. He could of heard the killer humming or whistling.
Like with many of the other previous cases. The best way to prove who is the culprit is to eliminate all the other suspects. That's made slightly easier by the fact that it's a serial killing case where information was kept from the public. Megure and Shihatori both talked about how the whistling was kept secret, but it would seem, judging from what Satou said, there was another bit of information that was kept from public knowledge. I was like Conan. I wondered how they knew the case of the third victim was related to the first two. That question is where Satou told about the carvings.
The elderly lady and wife of the first victim, Miako, knew the recent victim from his appearances on TV. I do notice that she's 62 now. That would of made her 42 when her husband died at 50, but I'm sure that irrelevant. My point is that if she only knew information that was given through TV. She wouldn't know about the whistling or the carvings.
The brother of the second victim, Hidekuni, made be suspicious at first. His first comment was that Hiramune is a criminal psychologist. Yet admitted he didn't watch TV. Though I don't know how Takagi introduced the photo, and the way I see it translated. It looks like what he said could be him asking a question. If it's true he didn't watch TV he should know even less about the case. He most likely wouldn't of even heard Hiramune's taunting.
There was also that in the translation I say Haibara only mentioned the killer's face being hidden by the hat, hair, and mustache. She never said anything about a beard. Eiki does have a small beard. While Hidekuni has a mustache, but no beard.
All three victims were always out very late on Saturday nights. They never explicitly say Eiki's father, Susumoben, was out on late Saturday nights, but they did say he liked to sleep till noon on Sunday. That implies he was always out late on Saturday nights.
I think Hirmune was a very arrogant man. If he is the killer from years ago I think you would all ask why he would be on TV and magazines taunting the killer. That's because he knew there was nothing to connect him to the victims. Who would suspect a person who studies criminals of being a killer? He also knew that the time limit was drawing more near. He knew that he was quite literally going to 'get away with murder'.
Hiramune told the people at the TV station that he had to leave and go meet with someone. Despite how he had just taunted a killer on live TV. That's what makes me think Hiramune had a meeting planned with Eiki before he appeared on TV. You may ask me about how Hiramune, 41, could possibly know a 25 yo Eiki. Remember what kind of boy Eiki used to be. He was diligent about trying to help the police find the killer. Hiramune was a criminal psychologist who was famous for talking about this case. I think Eiki had met with Hiramune in the past to try and talk about his father's killer. That or Eiki could of been a student of Hiramune. This jerk was probably all too keen on bragging the details. During this last meeting he might of let something slip. That or his comment about 'throwing out the safe tiles' was the key Eiki needed. How could Hiramune know about the mahjong connection of the previous victims unless he was the 4th player.
I think after Eiki killed Hiramune he used the old hat, hair, and mustache disguise to exit the building, I'd be curious if there was any security tape of Eiki entering, but not leaving.
I do think I have an answer to the carvings on the backs. The meanings and the order. The order Shihatori named off the carvings was E,S,W, and the final we know is actually N. I'm assuming he read them off in order of the killings. I did some research on mahjong and I noticed something. It had to do with starting the game and what is referred to as the "Game Winds". It's how the places are decided at the start of a game. The players role 3 dice(sometimes 2 dice). The highest total is the dealer(banker). He is represented at the EAST Wind. The person to his right is the SOUTH Wind, to his right is WEST Wind, and the 4th player is the NORTH Wind. That's the same order of the killings.
The WINDS are associated with a member of Flower Tile groups. 1-East 2-South 3-West 4-South
I think all the previous victims were all secretly playing mahjong on Saturdays. Most likely illegally gambling as they played. They probably invited the 21yo Hiramune to be their fourth player so they could take advantage of him. It's possible that he would get so emotional about his losses that he would cry. Which is probably where the "crybaby' comment came from.
Though I do know back in 1968 The Beatles released a song, on The White Album, called "Cry Baby Cry". "Let it Be" was released two years later back in 1970.
These are my thoughts on the case. Feel free to add your own thoughts.
I can say that I'm not sure about the meaning of the "Parents" and "Run Over" comment. I'm not so sure he was talking about actually parents being hit. It could be that the boy heard something wrong. I'm wondering if this could be some kind of mahjong statement. I swear, mahjong has been used enough in this series. I should learn the game. Just so I'm not left with a gap in knowledge like that.
I can speak for certainty that the original killer was a man. Remember that one of the posers from the previous case actually met the killer in the MEN's bathhouse. The guy he got the scar on the back idea from. This person even bragged how he got it from a police officer. If this guy was close enough to see the ichi mark on his 'naked' back I would also think he would of noticed if this person was a woman.
I do want to say that it should be completely possible to get a blood DNA match off that sword to the killer. The fact that his blood is the freshest makes it even easier.
I'm of the mind that this recent killer is not the same one from twenty and fifteen years ago. I think the most recent victim, Hiramune Douji, is the killer from the original attacks. The message of 'Ctrl+C" he left wasn't to say anything about the photocopy machine. He was trying to say this attacker is a copycat. I don't see why he would be so desperate to hide this message from the killer unless it was very damaging. That leaves the strong possibility that this most recent killer is 25 year old, Nabei Eiki. If it wasn't discovered that there was a copycat he would never been suspected. Right now they are assuming this killer is the same one from years ago. Eiki was 10 years old when his father died and 5 years old when the first killings happened.
That also explains why Eiki would try and cover the scar on Hiramune's back with the carving of a Z or N. If Hiramune is never suspected of being the original killer Eiki could escape all suspicion.
Eiki is also the only suspect that we know of that was present during one of the murders. He could of heard the killer humming or whistling.
Like with many of the other previous cases. The best way to prove who is the culprit is to eliminate all the other suspects. That's made slightly easier by the fact that it's a serial killing case where information was kept from the public. Megure and Shihatori both talked about how the whistling was kept secret, but it would seem, judging from what Satou said, there was another bit of information that was kept from public knowledge. I was like Conan. I wondered how they knew the case of the third victim was related to the first two. That question is where Satou told about the carvings.
The elderly lady and wife of the first victim, Miako, knew the recent victim from his appearances on TV. I do notice that she's 62 now. That would of made her 42 when her husband died at 50, but I'm sure that irrelevant. My point is that if she only knew information that was given through TV. She wouldn't know about the whistling or the carvings.
The brother of the second victim, Hidekuni, made be suspicious at first. His first comment was that Hiramune is a criminal psychologist. Yet admitted he didn't watch TV. Though I don't know how Takagi introduced the photo, and the way I see it translated. It looks like what he said could be him asking a question. If it's true he didn't watch TV he should know even less about the case. He most likely wouldn't of even heard Hiramune's taunting.
There was also that in the translation I say Haibara only mentioned the killer's face being hidden by the hat, hair, and mustache. She never said anything about a beard. Eiki does have a small beard. While Hidekuni has a mustache, but no beard.
All three victims were always out very late on Saturday nights. They never explicitly say Eiki's father, Susumoben, was out on late Saturday nights, but they did say he liked to sleep till noon on Sunday. That implies he was always out late on Saturday nights.
I think Hirmune was a very arrogant man. If he is the killer from years ago I think you would all ask why he would be on TV and magazines taunting the killer. That's because he knew there was nothing to connect him to the victims. Who would suspect a person who studies criminals of being a killer? He also knew that the time limit was drawing more near. He knew that he was quite literally going to 'get away with murder'.
Hiramune told the people at the TV station that he had to leave and go meet with someone. Despite how he had just taunted a killer on live TV. That's what makes me think Hiramune had a meeting planned with Eiki before he appeared on TV. You may ask me about how Hiramune, 41, could possibly know a 25 yo Eiki. Remember what kind of boy Eiki used to be. He was diligent about trying to help the police find the killer. Hiramune was a criminal psychologist who was famous for talking about this case. I think Eiki had met with Hiramune in the past to try and talk about his father's killer. That or Eiki could of been a student of Hiramune. This jerk was probably all too keen on bragging the details. During this last meeting he might of let something slip. That or his comment about 'throwing out the safe tiles' was the key Eiki needed. How could Hiramune know about the mahjong connection of the previous victims unless he was the 4th player.
I think after Eiki killed Hiramune he used the old hat, hair, and mustache disguise to exit the building, I'd be curious if there was any security tape of Eiki entering, but not leaving.
I do think I have an answer to the carvings on the backs. The meanings and the order. The order Shihatori named off the carvings was E,S,W, and the final we know is actually N. I'm assuming he read them off in order of the killings. I did some research on mahjong and I noticed something. It had to do with starting the game and what is referred to as the "Game Winds". It's how the places are decided at the start of a game. The players role 3 dice(sometimes 2 dice). The highest total is the dealer(banker). He is represented at the EAST Wind. The person to his right is the SOUTH Wind, to his right is WEST Wind, and the 4th player is the NORTH Wind. That's the same order of the killings.
The WINDS are associated with a member of Flower Tile groups. 1-East 2-South 3-West 4-South
I think all the previous victims were all secretly playing mahjong on Saturdays. Most likely illegally gambling as they played. They probably invited the 21yo Hiramune to be their fourth player so they could take advantage of him. It's possible that he would get so emotional about his losses that he would cry. Which is probably where the "crybaby' comment came from.
Though I do know back in 1968 The Beatles released a song, on The White Album, called "Cry Baby Cry". "Let it Be" was released two years later back in 1970.
These are my thoughts on the case. Feel free to add your own thoughts.
Last edited by Kristantei on November 13th, 2008, 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GinRei
- DCTP Staff Member
- 銀霊
Posts: 3388- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
As for your theory:
(Spoilers for the cover page and first panel of 672, so not much spoilers overall):
(Spoilers for the cover page and first panel of 672, so not much spoilers overall):
Spoiler:
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Kristantei
Posts: 56- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
Question here.GinRei wrote: As for your theory:
(Spoilers for the cover page and first panel of 672, so not much spoilers overall):Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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GinRei
- DCTP Staff Member
- 銀霊
Posts: 3388- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
Spoiler:
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Kristantei
Posts: 56- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
GinRei wrote:Spoiler:
Spoiler: mahjong info
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tepiestar
- do manly girlie men really exist?
Posts: 166
Re: 671 Murderer
kristantei, i love your deductions. if i've never said it before. i look forward to reading them all the time.
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Kristantei
Posts: 56- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
Thanks, but I'm not sure how well my deduction stands up on this case. They didn't give a whole lot.tepiestar wrote: kristantei, i love your deductions. if i've never said it before. i look forward to reading them all the time.
Eiki is the most suspicious, but Haibara never said anything about the person having a beard.
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Stepx
Posts: 9
Re: 671 Murderer
First of all, very good work Kristantei! There is, in my eyes, much truth in!
But there are several things bothering me, and the fact that this case seems not to end with File 672 shows that there have to be some more questions to be answered before we can solve the case finally!
First of all, what bothers me the most is that everything seems to be much too obvious! I mean, expanding that ichi scar to a Z, meaning N instead of Z, Strg + C as a dying message to show that the recent murderer is someone else... That is, compared to all the cases we have seen so far from Gosho, a bit too obvious (just my opinion)!
Next, wouldn't the murderer (Eiki), staying in the room to prepare his disguist, remark the victim using is right hand to mark the strg and c and that letting the hand fall down on the right side, covering the dying message with his left hand. Unless I think that is very difficult for someone whos back is wounded by there deep, long scars, I think the movement that is needed to leave a message on that way would be seen by the culprit. In addition, for someone who is damaged that much hitting those two keys without hitting some others accidentally must be very difficult (and as you can see there are no other traces of blood around)!
Last but not least, if Hiramune is the serial murderer, why did he show up on TV? Why didn't he just hide at home and wait for the time limit to expire! Why should he give clues to someone (Eiki e.g.) who would have a grudge on him when he discovers that he is the serial murderer who killed his father and caused his mother's coma! There is no sense in it, for me! He might be arrogant, yeah, but not silly...
These are just some facts bothering me in that case!
Some thoughts coming to my mind:
For Hiramune, ridiculing on the serial murderer might be the only chance to get to know about his identity! Let's pretend that he is really member of that group of Saturday-Night-Mahjongg-Players! As a criminal psychologist, maybe he wanted to reveal the identity of the man who killed his friends? Knowing that, after his three friends (which were left with the scars of the winds, as Kristantei explained), he might be the last one on the list of the serial murderer to be killed, he wanted to let him come to his home (that's why he revealed his identity of being a mahjongg group member through giving the mahjongg hint within his speech in TV) to catch him!
(Do not wonder why I do not even try to solve the whole case, I don't know about it! These are just some story I think about)
What if the murderer prepared the crime scene that way that everyone thinks the recent murderer is a copycat? As I said, it is very obvious to me, and it might be obvious to the police as well, that the in story the crime scene tells us the recent murderer is someone else! What if there has never been a scar on Hiramune's back, but the murderer put the N that way so that it looks as if he wanted to use the ichi scar on his back to form a Z! What if the murderer marked the STRG and C key and put the victims left hand on it! That should be possible and would lead us in a very wrong direction! Something we should think about!
I'm looking forward to the next file, maybe we'll be able to solve it after reading! I hope we can both share our thoughts then, Kristantei-san
But there are several things bothering me, and the fact that this case seems not to end with File 672 shows that there have to be some more questions to be answered before we can solve the case finally!
First of all, what bothers me the most is that everything seems to be much too obvious! I mean, expanding that ichi scar to a Z, meaning N instead of Z, Strg + C as a dying message to show that the recent murderer is someone else... That is, compared to all the cases we have seen so far from Gosho, a bit too obvious (just my opinion)!
Next, wouldn't the murderer (Eiki), staying in the room to prepare his disguist, remark the victim using is right hand to mark the strg and c and that letting the hand fall down on the right side, covering the dying message with his left hand. Unless I think that is very difficult for someone whos back is wounded by there deep, long scars, I think the movement that is needed to leave a message on that way would be seen by the culprit. In addition, for someone who is damaged that much hitting those two keys without hitting some others accidentally must be very difficult (and as you can see there are no other traces of blood around)!
Last but not least, if Hiramune is the serial murderer, why did he show up on TV? Why didn't he just hide at home and wait for the time limit to expire! Why should he give clues to someone (Eiki e.g.) who would have a grudge on him when he discovers that he is the serial murderer who killed his father and caused his mother's coma! There is no sense in it, for me! He might be arrogant, yeah, but not silly...
These are just some facts bothering me in that case!
Some thoughts coming to my mind:
For Hiramune, ridiculing on the serial murderer might be the only chance to get to know about his identity! Let's pretend that he is really member of that group of Saturday-Night-Mahjongg-Players! As a criminal psychologist, maybe he wanted to reveal the identity of the man who killed his friends? Knowing that, after his three friends (which were left with the scars of the winds, as Kristantei explained), he might be the last one on the list of the serial murderer to be killed, he wanted to let him come to his home (that's why he revealed his identity of being a mahjongg group member through giving the mahjongg hint within his speech in TV) to catch him!
(Do not wonder why I do not even try to solve the whole case, I don't know about it! These are just some story I think about)
What if the murderer prepared the crime scene that way that everyone thinks the recent murderer is a copycat? As I said, it is very obvious to me, and it might be obvious to the police as well, that the in story the crime scene tells us the recent murderer is someone else! What if there has never been a scar on Hiramune's back, but the murderer put the N that way so that it looks as if he wanted to use the ichi scar on his back to form a Z! What if the murderer marked the STRG and C key and put the victims left hand on it! That should be possible and would lead us in a very wrong direction! Something we should think about!
I'm looking forward to the next file, maybe we'll be able to solve it after reading! I hope we can both share our thoughts then, Kristantei-san
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sstimson
- Everyone a Critic
Posts: 2588- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
Time to end all the wrong ideas about the murder . It was clearly stated WHO DUNIT. The Female members of the detective boys saw the killer!
Look at the center panel. Megure clearly says it is NOT A COPYCAT. He also says that AI and AYUMI saw the killer ( the GUY whistling "LET IT BE" ) HE IS THE KILLER!!
This book asked few questions.
1) Does " Let it be " have a deeper meaning?
2) What is the connection between the murdered man and the relatives of the earlier Victims?
Conan's look at the End means he know the anwser to question 2 and maybe question 1.
So the question being ask is number 2. What is the connection between the four victims?
Later
Spoiler:
This book asked few questions.
1) Does " Let it be " have a deeper meaning?
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Later
Last edited by sstimson on November 15th, 2008, 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Later
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Invisible Member
Spoiler: SS Present from PT
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hakkaino7
- Purple Monkey Dishwasher at your service
Posts: 482- Contact:
Re: 671 Murderer
to sstimson, megure only said that the fact that someone whistling "let it be" was found near the crime scene, that it wasn't known to the public
If it is a copycat, there are two possibilities I've thought of,
1: The copycat knew that fact(which lessens the number of suspects), meaning that there is still a possibility that someone else would have heard that fact even though it wasn't shown to the public. e.g. the kid, since he was still a kid at that time, just like conan, police would sometimes let their guard down.
2: The person who Ai and Ayumi heard could have also been the victim
plus...
If it is a copycat, there are two possibilities I've thought of,
1: The copycat knew that fact(which lessens the number of suspects), meaning that there is still a possibility that someone else would have heard that fact even though it wasn't shown to the public. e.g. the kid, since he was still a kid at that time, just like conan, police would sometimes let their guard down.
2: The person who Ai and Ayumi heard could have also been the victim
plus...
Spoiler:
Last edited by hakkaino7 on November 16th, 2008, 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Akonyl wrote: the second law of thermodynamics states that all topics will tend towards maximal offtopicness.