Demon Dog Case (734-740)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Who is the culprit behind the death of Saki Inubushi?

Takako Inubushi (考å­
3
8%
Tomoaki Inubushi (知晃) (42) - glasses
9
23%
Yoshia Inubushi (禅也) (34) - chin stubble
0
No votes
Miyuki Inubushi (幸姫) (28) - motorcycle babe
14
35%
Miwako Inubushi (美我å­
1
3%
Keiji Inubushi (è›
0
No votes
Shinichi Kudo/Inubushi (伸壱) - dead CO
0
No votes
Saki Inubushi (ä½
1
3%
Tsunechika Inubushi (æ
0
No votes
Satomi Inubuchi - ill wife of the president
4
10%
Abukawa Funae - housekeeper of Shinichi
0
No votes
The family dog
2
5%
The incredibly crusty old man
6
15%
 
Total votes: 40
Abs.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Abs. »

The 工藤, Kudou (surname), part is the same.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by xGinx »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: There are a few points about the crime scene. If Abukawa Funae did it there must have been a duct tape trick to allow her to leave the room which I assume Heiji and Conan spotted if the lady did it. It could be like the twin sisters bathroom duct tape case. (197-199) !Kudo had a bad back so balancing on books while holding his hands above his head to place duct tape would be difficult. !Kudo's footprints should be on the books since his feet were bare, but if the lady did it, there should be no footprints from her slippers.
The post mortem lividity on !Kudo's back is unusual because normally you get that on the side facing down when you die. This would seem to indicate the guy died on his back, but after death was flipped over. My guess is the lady COed him while he was asleep, came back to check up on him, and dumped the body on the floor for a reason I don't understand (maybe she thought it would look more natural?) She also might have reentered to set the music alarm clock...

Can someone shed light on the names? Is there a common theme within them, like numbers or some phrase you get if you take part of the first radicals because I have a strong hunch there is some sort of pattern to them. I think the names matter because at one point Conan asked Heiji what the names of the two dead people were, but the answer was cut off. Maybe the murderer is going in order... It's interesting that they are all weird because Hattori claimed the eight children were all named by Inubushi Tsunechika. The weirdness of all eight names would give legitimacy to the claim that they were all genuine illegitimate offspring (sounds like an oxymoron) of the boss. Perhaps recognizing her husband's naming scheme, Inubushi Satori realized they were all his handiwork, so to speak, and adopted all eight of them. Maybe this case will have light shed on it by figuring out which of these names is not like the others, or perhaps there is a "missing name" that should be on the list indicated by a gap in the naming theme if there is one.

I think the motive isn't the inheritance money, but the culprit who killed the other two was "wronged" when the eight children came to claim the money because going after someone who had given up his claim to the inheritance money is unnecessary if money were the only motive. Perhaps the Inubushi boss guy had a child by the wife who should be the legitimate successor, but that child was put aside? I think it is possible Abukawa Funae was put up to this case by the culprit in the previous two cases.
I think that there might be something in the names, if you look there's only one name with three Kanjis while the other's 7 only have two.
About the trick to simulate a close murder scene, the duck tape on the door wasn't really closing it, i think that she putted it there and simulated that the door was sealed with it using the weight of the books that were behind the door.
Last edited by xGinx on May 17th, 2010, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Akonyl »

I'm not quite sure I agree with you about the books, as if the books were indeed used then hattori would have noticed quickly that it was the books when there was still a force behind the door even after the tape had been removed.
I agree with the door sealing thing though as the tape on the door was a lot looser if you look at it when Hattori was trying to open it though (as tape which was firmly placed on the door would have a contact point much farther from the door frame than the tape we can see in the picture)

As for why she dumped the body on the floor, that's probably it anyway as she'd want to make it seem like he died after they arrived when she'd actually killed him beforehand. At least that's my guess, as I would imagine if she killed him while they were there, there wouldn't be enough time for lividity to set in (and moreso, for the lividity he did get to stay on his back I'd think it would have to be in a semi-congealed state at least unless they happened upon the body right after). Had she just taped up the room and left him in his bed, it probably would have looked pretty suspicious.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Nyarl »

xGinx wrote:
About the trick to simulate a close murder scene, the duck tape on the door wasn't really closing it, i think that she putted it there and simulated that the door was sealed with it using the weight of the books that were behind the door.
Hmm... I suppose she could have put a sheet of something under the door to slide the books so they're close to the door after shutting it. But, we can see tape is actually stuck to both the door and the wall as Heiji opens the door. The tape wouldn't simply be stuck to the wall, of course, because it would just get caught in the door jamb as the door is shut, or to avoid that it'd need to be curled away from the door such that Heiji shouldn't be pushing the door into it later. Even if the door were slammed to straighten out the tape via air pressure, it's very unlikely the tape would then stick to the door in preference to the wall. I guess putting the tape on the door and angling it in a way that makes it touch the door frame/wall before/as the door is shut might cause it to stick weakly. Seems awkward to get right, though, considering air resistance would tend to curl the tape away from the wall as the door is shut.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Nyarl wrote:
xGinx wrote:
About the trick to simulate a close murder scene, the duck tape on the door wasn't really closing it, i think that she putted it there and simulated that the door was sealed with it using the weight of the books that were behind the door.
Hmm... I suppose she could have put a sheet of something under the door to slide the books so they're close to the door after shutting it. But, we can see tape is actually stuck to both the door and the wall as Heiji opens the door. The tape wouldn't simply be stuck to the wall, of course, because it would just get caught in the door jamb as the door is shut, or to avoid that it'd need to be curled away from the door such that Heiji shouldn't be pushing the door into it later. Even if the door were slammed to straighten out the tape via air pressure, it's very unlikely the tape would then stick to the door in preference to the wall. I guess putting the tape on the door and angling it in a way that makes it touch the door frame/wall before/as the door is shut might cause it to stick weakly. Seems awkward to get right, though, considering air resistance would tend to curl the tape away from the wall as the door is shut.
Shutting the door with force doesn't help the duct tape get pressed down. After experimenting with a door and some tape, I found the easiest and quickest method to get the tape to stick down as shown is to press it down while the door is slightly ajar using a curved tool. I used a fork, but I'm sure it would be easier to come up with a better tool with a ninety degree angle turn. Perhaps a metal coat hanger bent around the hanging axis would work better. Shutting the door with a little speed helps the tape stick to both sides. The tape can be pressed down strongly enough with this method that it can come off on side that was pressed down with the tool. The effect of the tape is convincing, although it seems a little too easy to initially open the door a little. I want to say this seems to match Hattori's experience.
The manual tape down strategy explains why there are spaces between the long strips of tape, you need room to maneuver the tool.
As for the tape pressed along the cracks of the door, air pressure may help if it is higher in the room than the rest of the house, but Hattori seems to get it open pretty easily which suggests it was not stuck down that well. That meshes with my experience.

Having the books in front of the door to provide resistance also helps with the illusion. Nyarl suggested a method with sheets, but there seems to be tape stuck to the floor as well which would futz that particular method up. Perhaps setting the stack of books on two metersticks which stick out from under the door when closed, then pulling the metersticks with the books on top closer until the stack contacts the door, and finally sliding the metersticks out from underneath the books and the door to complete the trick would work. The two metersticks might leave an indent in the crack sealing tape though, but since we can't see it clearly, the method is uncertain.

Good point Akonyl on why the lady would have wanted to change the position of the body.
caribou wrote: Question is how they would find the evidence? It's quite unlikely that the nurse would start confessing... I also wonder how she set up this locked room, if they figure out the trick I guess that would help with the evidence as well.

It's pretty much impossible for a third party to pull the trick off without Abukawa Funae's knowledge as it would involve knowing precisely what and when the victim, Hattori and Conan, and Abukawa Funae were doing to add and remove elements from the scene without being caught. That pretty much means it's a suicide or she did it. People have already mentioned quite a few things that strongly rule out the suicide, but there should be more like: absence of the victim's fingerprints on the tape, absence or smudged fingerprints on the alarm clock indicating someone else modified it after the victim touched it, victim's footprints not on the books, or evidence of falsification of the grocery shopping alibi like receipt timed wrong, storekeeper testimony, if the person uses a car to shop the motor is probably cold. Also the tool used to press down the tape should be somewhere. If she failed to use gloves, then the evidence will be especially damning.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Nyarl »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: Having the books in front of the door to provide resistance also helps with the illusion. Nyarl suggested a method with sheets, but there seems to be tape stuck to the floor as well which would futz that particular method up. Perhaps setting the stack of books on two metersticks which stick out from under the door when closed, then pulling the metersticks with the books on top closer until the stack contacts the door, and finally sliding the metersticks out from underneath the books and the door to complete the trick would work. The two metersticks might leave an indent in the crack sealing tape though, but since we can't see it clearly, the method is uncertain.
Page 13 shows there was gum tape on the floor, so narrow boards/rulers it is. Whatever gaps they'd leave in the seal would probably be hard to discern after the door was opened, or the culprit would expect that anyway.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by xpon »

caribou wrote: Heiji noticed that the pile of books was taken from a lower shelf, and the victim could not have bent down to take them due to his bad back. he would also have had difficulty pasting the tapes with his bad back.
that is my ultimate reason for believe that the victim is murdered not suicide
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by baka1412 »

Btw, do you think Heiji and Conan just wanted to say the Victim was Murdered, or they really sure that lady was the killer ?

Though, 1 don't think this would've ended in 2 chapter.. Or possible conjecture case also considered..
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

baka1412 wrote: Btw, do you think Heiji and Conan just wanted to say the Victim was Murdered, or they really sure that lady was the killer ?

Though, 1 don't think this would've ended in 2 chapter.. Or possible conjecture case also considered..
This case isn't over yet. It's a long case...

Also 735 spoiler
The pearl that fell out of !Shinichi's mouth is a direct reference to the eight beads in Satomi Hakkenden...
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 29th, 2010, 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Tigerking »

Isn't the room on the second floor? So unless the woman is a ninja, or super fit, she would have to go in and out of the same door to kill the guy and come out. Now, my theory is, she was actually inside the room when Heiji opened the door. In fact, she was hiding behind the door. The pile of books that were behind the door was to prevent the door from opening all the way so that it won't hit her when Heiji forced the door open. The room was set up to looks like carbon monoxide poisoning, but, if I remember correctly, CO is both colorless and odorless. So, at the first glance, there's no way to know that the room was actually perfectly safe. I am sure when Conan went to check the brazier, he noticed that the device wasn't on, or there's something else amiss.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Schillok »

There is one big problem with the theory that the nurse killed the man and put him in the bed to make it seem like he was still alive: She couldn't know when Heiji was coming. If she even knew that he was coming.

She needed a witness that the man was alive when she left or she would have been the prime suspect. Even creating a sealed room would not have helped her if she had to open the sealed room without anyone else present to "discover the suicide" together with her. So unless she knew beforehand when Heiji was coming she was risking to kill the man much too early - or worse, start too late because setting up the charcoal burner and removing it again (and the smell of burnt charcoal) takes a few minutes.
Heiji never commented it was strange the victim was sleeping like he probably would have if they had decided on a time to meet beforehand. So how did she do that? Hoping on her luck? Did she have a plan B to get someone in case Heiji didn't turn up?

True, the high temperature on the room would keep the body warm so maybe she could hide the fact that he was dead for more than 30 minutes. And maybe she had to turn him around to prevent the gathering of blood on the backside of the body which would have given her away as well.
Still, it seems very much like a gamble...
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Tigerking »

Schillok wrote: There is one big problem with the theory that the nurse killed the man and put him in the bed to make it seem like he was still alive: She couldn't know when Heiji was coming. If she even knew that he was coming.

She needed a witness that the man was alive when she left or she would have been the prime suspect. Even creating a sealed room would not have helped her if she had to open the sealed room without anyone else present to "discover the suicide" together with her. So unless she knew beforehand when Heiji was coming she was risking to kill the man much too early - or worse, start too late because setting up the charcoal burner and removing it again (and the smell of burnt charcoal) takes a few minutes.
Heiji never commented it was strange the victim was sleeping like he probably would have if they had decided on a time to meet beforehand. So how did she do that? Hoping on her luck? Did she have a plan B to get someone in case Heiji didn't turn up?

True, the high temperature on the room would keep the body warm so maybe she could hide the fact that he was dead for more than 30 minutes. And maybe she had to turn him around to prevent the gathering of blood on the backside of the body which would have given her away as well.
Still, it seems very much like a gamble...
That may be true. But, it seems to me that she was both surprised and nervous when Heiji and Conan showed up, when I read the dialogues again. She then conveniently told Heiji and Conan that the victim was contemplating suicide. This indicates to me that she probably didn't plan on sealing the the room and move the body until Heiji showed up. The nurse was supposed to be there roughly twice a week. My guess is, her original plan was to kill the victim with CO poisoning, then pretend that she found the victim dead when she showed up for work.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Nyarl »

Spoiler: 735
I was right about a patsy being framed by the true culprit. So, how does anyone besides Kogoro, Ran, Kazuha, Heiji and Conan know that only Heiji and Conan would show up at the victim's place? How would a random culprit know to bug/watch Kogoro's place after Heiji heard the story from Kazuha's mother? How would they know that Heiji even heard the story and the request that someone hear "Shin'ichi's" story? The implied threat against the helper's family is 100% Org. MO. You guys wanting the end might have finally gotten your wish...
Last edited by Nyarl on May 20th, 2010, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Tigerking »

Nyarl wrote:
Spoiler: 735
I was right about a patsy being framed by the true culprit. So, how does anyone besides Kogoro, Ran, Kazuha, Heiji and Conan know that only Heiji and Conan would show up at the victim's place? How would a random culprit know to bug/watch Kogoro's place after Heiji heard the story from Kazuha's mother? How would they know that Heiji even heard the story and the request that someone hear "Shin'ichi's" story? The implied threat against the helper's family is 100% Org. MO. You guys wanting the end might have finally gotten your wish...
Dammit.... I can't believe I totally missed Nyarl's theory in the first page..... And here I thought I cracked the case >:(
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Re: Demon Dog Case (734-???)

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

Nyarl wrote: I was right about a patsy being framed by the true culprit. So, how does anyone besides Kogoro, Ran, Kazuha, Heiji and Conan know that only Heiji and Conan would show up at the victim's place? How would a random culprit know to bug/watch Kogoro's place after Heiji heard the story from Kazuha's mother? How would they know that Heiji even heard the story and the request that someone hear "Shin'ichi's" story? The implied threat against the helper's family is 100% Org. MO. You guys wanting the end might have finally gotten your wish...
I admit, the culprit is dedicated. The method of blackmailing the housekeeper to get her to take the blame resembles Vermouth's blackmail of the werewolf dude to kill the movie producer. However, there are some MO differences to point out. The Org usually doesn't go about seeking unnecessary retribution, so I doubt they would sanction the offing of some random family. This crime appears to be motivated by revenge/feud, not cash, since !Shinichi gave up his claim to the inheritance. Even if the family has a lot of money, the Syndicate probably would find a better method to get it, like theft or blackmail. Also, if it was the Org, I don't think they would have underestimated Hattori like the culprit apparently did. They would be more careful and do the background research. I don't think it's an Org case this time, just a more-devious-than-usual murderer of the month.
I think it's likely the culprit placed listening devices in !Shinichi's house in order to learn the schedules of the two people. She/he learned the housekeeper's normal arrival time (she specified she came at noon "as usual") in order to time the murder. I assume the killer overheard !Shinichi discussing with Hattori/Shizuka about coming. My guess is Hattori contacted !Shinichi after he called Shizuka in order to arrange a time to meet; Hattori, anticipating Conan accompanying him, may have mentioned to !Shinichi he was bringing another kid with him. I'll wait for the final translations before analyzing plural versus singular references to who would be visiting. When she/he murdered !Shinichi, the killer removed the listening devices at that time, and then watched the house. When the housekeeper arrived, that killer called and gave the instructions, explaining the timeliness of the contact. Of course the housekeeper didn't think to look outside for the culprit...
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on June 25th, 2010, 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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