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Holy crap, a serious topic?!  Yes, my friends, this isn't about harems, pictures of dead animals, goat cheese, or anything else similar to that matter.  This shall be a good ol' fashion debate where tempers will flicker and people shall be inevitably be flamed.

So, I bring you the debate on Western medicine vs Eastern medicine, now when I say medicine I mean all types of medical expertise - surgical, sports medicine, pediatric, whatever...(as you can easily see I'm definitely not going to Med School).

Now, before a couple days ago - I always had the perception that Western medicine is vastly superior - millions if not billions of dollars are flowing into drug companies to create new medications and pharmaceutical companies developing cures.  Plus, Western higher education can without a doubt be called elite - the doctors we have on hand are incredibly intelligent and hard working -getting into top named undergrad school and graduating with honors, then climbing up the 7 year ladder of Med School definitely is an achievement.

Then we have the mysterious antidotes and cures from the Eastern side; vials containg herbs and roots, ginseng and ginger, and acupuncture methods have all proven to be very effective, if not sometimes better than current Western treatment.  But why is this so?

Now to talk about my own personal experience.  I have had a year-long lingering injury to my right shoulder from a basketball game, where I caused an instability that is having my shoulder muscles and joints sliding back and forth, sort of like a semi-dislocation, which causes severe pain whenever I do certain activities that require that joint.  So, like the good American I am, I rely on the great medical staff of my local hospital to take an MRI and talk to me about the results.  They tell me surgery is an option, or go with the physical therapy plan.  Of course, I don't want surgery on me - so I take the path of physical therapy, which is an utter joke.  Doing bicep curls, tricep extensions, and other daily exercises that I can perform without a problem is supposed to help "strengthen" my muscles and help fix my issue. 2 weeks of physical therapy and no recovery whatsoever - and then I aggravate the injury again. 

This time, I go to an acupuncturist.  I was hesitant, but I was willing to give it a try.  After one session with him messing with arm and sticking some needles in me, I feel a lot better than before; he tells me he put the shoulder back in the right position.  Ridiculous statement, but its true...  I'm going back for two more sessions.

So what gives?  If Eastern medicine is so effective and potent, how come Westerners haven't taken a further look into it?  Why do we take pills that have so many unnatural chemicals when we can be drinking a cup of herb-like soup that has ultimately the same effectivenes?  Is it all a placebo effect?

What do you guys make out of this, any experience or opinions regarding these two medical procedures? 

Ahaaaa, a thread I can really talk in.

Since I'm Chinese, I probably know a bit more about Eastern Medicine, or Chinese Medicine... It's hard to explain, but every plant---medicine----that can be used belongs in a catergory; "cool/cold" or "warm/hot". (along those lines) For example if you had a sore throat, it could be because you ate too much food of the "warm/hot" catergory. So the doctor gives you some medicine of the "cool/cold" catergory. ^^ It's the same vice-versa.

For ginseng, it's in the "hot" catergory, and it's very "hot". That's why we only usually take a small portion of ginseng a time if we use the ginseng as a "healthy food", like vitamin pills, but they're ginseng. I myself take ginseng pills every day, since I have a weakish body.

The difference between Eastern and Western medicine, is the effects. Western medicine can heal quick, but there are aftereffects, such as drowsiness, tireness, etc. Eastern medicine cures with natrual ways, so it doesn't have the aftereffects. I personally perfer Eastern medicine, but when I have a fever, I usually consult a Western doctor (no, not a Texan lol) because the fever means the sickness is strong, and if you want to be able to work the next day, Western medicine is better. Though in cases such as sore throats, runny noses, etc, I'd consult an Eastern doctor, because the herbs just seem to work better than Western medicine in these situations.

....Did any of this help? 8D If it did I'm glad. ^^

EDIT: About acupuncture, Eastern doctors use the acupuncture points of the human body. It might sound weird, but it’s true; acupuncture can work miracles sometimes. The doctors stick the needles at just the right angles at just the right points of the body, and voila, you can feel better. Different points of the body cures different things, like headaches. ^^

I vote mystical medicine, which is not western nor eastern, but OTHERWORLDLY!

Moriarty wrote: I vote mystical medicine, which is not western nor eastern, but OTHERWORLDLY!

*deathstare*

LOL.

ccppfan wrote:

Moriarty wrote: I vote mystical medicine, which is not western nor eastern, but OTHERWORLDLY!

*deathstare*

LOL.

Necromancy comes from somewhere. . . .

Chinese here too.  Did a bit of acupuncture before and I usually do that to myself whenever I have headaches from stress.


The difference between western and eastern medicine is that eastern medicine knows everything is connected while western medicine usually zero in on one area of the body and just treats that area.  By looking at your tongue for example they can tell if there is something wrong with your heart.  The acupuncture end point for your lung is on your thumb.  And by massaging the center of the bottom of your foot you can stimulate your kidney.  It's kinda hard to explain so I won't bother.

I like eastern medicine better because it's more natural and they try to go to the root of the problem instead of just treating the problem area.  Of course western medicine is the better option sometimes in it's fast treatment and it's surgery option : ).  

ccppfan wrote: when I have a fever, I usually consult a Western doctor (no, not a Texan lol) because the fever means the sickness is strong

i am slightly offended by that Texan comment, but i laughed none the less.

It is quackery.

Forewarning: I am a skeptic, through and through. I do not believe in alternative medication or traditional beliefs just because it's comforting or because it is tradition.

I don't really want to get into this because if it worked (whether it's the placebo effect or not), then that's good for you, but I will say that a vast amount of "Eastern" medicine revolves around pseudoscience and traditional belief. "Alternative medicine" is baseless, and if you can prove that it's actually medically sound, there's a million dollars in it for you (including acupuncture). Homeopathy and the use of 'natural herbs' and such is universally rejected by actual science and those with a practical outlook on medicine, but the placebo effect is all that has been "proven" in those situations.

Acupuncture isn't medically sound because it adheres to no actual scientific controls. There are just as many documented cases of needles being inserted into the wrong area of the body and having a healing effect as the right area. Sometimes, the mind can heal all wounds.

As for why Western medicine hasn't "looked into" Eastern medicine, they have. For decades, it has been put to the test and, for decades, it's been proven to be without merit. Simply put, it is not miracle medicine. Much of it relies solely on the power of belief and, as is the case with another practice involving tradition, people will invest their faith in whatever they are convinced by. All of the following are pseudosciences, and you can claim $1,000,000 without question if you can prove a single one of them:

- Acupuncture
- Astrology
- Channeling
- Crystal Healing
- Dowsing
- Faith Healing
- Graphology
- Homeopathy
- Parapsychology
- Psychic Surgery
- Psychokinesis
- Traditional Chinese Medicine

Now, I am not saying that TCM and the like are not "effective"--there is a distinction to be made, and a big one. The power of belief is very often what makes them work when they do (and even just the fact that your body heals overtime), and that's absolutely fine if it works for people. However, if you have a cold and take a natural herb and it eventually goes away, there are millions of people who would instantly attribute the healing to the herb. But, in reality, let us not overlook one thing: colds go away. I have as many colds a year as anyone and I come down with sickness all the time, and I extremely rarely take any medicine for any of it. That isn't because I don't believe in medicine, it's because your body can get over many things on its own (including practically everything that TCM purports to treat). Almost all people I know that are affected by the Chinese tradition of medicine immediately adhere to the idea that they must take a natural remedy that instant to ensure they heal properly, but in reality, it just isn't necessary. People can, do, and will heal just as fast by taking care and not exerting themselves when they are ill with perishable sickness.

If the idea of TCM actually does work for people, that's great--but they shouldn't rely on it for actual illnesses that require treatment, such as, tragically, cancer. If they do, they aren't going to be with us for long, no matter if they take every ounce of TCM medicine available. That is an absolutely terrible figment of reality, too, just because we know that some people are going to go to them in their hour of need and the "traditional healers" will gladly take their money and send them off to die. I'm sure some healers actually believe that it works, too--unfortunately, they are aiding in their demise if they knowingly disregard proven medical treatment.

I really don't like to get at odds with fellow forumers, but this is a subject I've been involved with for nearly a decade now. This post isn't even saying that all Eastern medicine is quackery--writing off the entire thing would be irresponsible, but I can say that from the ones I am aware of (that are meant to be curing things that can't be cured otherwise, specifically), that it is nothing more than the placebo effect and, at best, unsophisticated medicine. "Natural" cures sound fantastic, but they simply are not what they appear, I'm afraid. They also aren't unique whatsoever to the East--Native American and South American cultures have been practicing it for eons as well.

Sorry, Ranger--no big conspiracy here.

But, get in touch with your acupuncture practitioner and have him file an application right away. If he also happens to be a palmreader on the weekends, he can double up and have both tested together. This challenge has been going on for decades and they've invited acupuncturists to partake dozens of times and yet, no one has ever got past the preliminary stage with it.

(If needed, I'll write a longer post on the subject. As usual with "controversial" topics on here, I feel I should withhold any sort of incendiary remarks or evidence to avoid upsetting anyone. I really don't want to go into much detail other than to say that--for serious illnesses, illnesses that need to be treated to survive--put your health in the hands of trained medical professionals and not in the hands of quack artists. For minor injuries and irritations, just... don't give them too much money.)

Jd- wrote:I feel I should withhold any sort of incendiary remarks or evidence to avoid upsetting anyone.

I question what big red text saying that it's quackery is, if not incendiary to the people who've stated their belief in it.

Anyway, I don't know much on the subject, but my dad had some foot problems (he might still have em, dunno) and he was recommended an acupuncturist, and after maybe 5 or so sessions he concluded that it was just sorta painful to get needles stuck in your foot.

Akonyl wrote:

Jd- wrote:I feel I should withhold any sort of incendiary remarks or evidence to avoid upsetting anyone.

I question what big red text saying that it's quackery is, if not incendiary to the people who've stated their belief in it.

Anyway, I don't know much on the subject, but my dad had some foot problems (he might still have em, dunno) and he was recommended an acupuncturist, and after maybe 5 or so sessions he concluded that it was just sorta painful to get needles stuck in your foot.

The red text (EDIT! Text changed to rainbow colors! Everybody wins!) is to ensure that my stance is obvious before they read into the post; I don't want to pretend I'm kinda on the fence and for someone to be upset as they read on and can't believe what they're reading. What you see is what you get (hey, that's the whole idea behind alternative medicine).

As for your dad's problem, somebody quoted this on the JREF forum:

"Acupuncture is based on the sound scientific principle of, if every time someone complains about something, you stick him with a big needle, pretty soon he's going to stop complaining."

I always laugh at that.

*looks at the text*

You got the color order all wrong! You're like that one killer from the Anytime, Anywhere case!

Akonyl wrote: *looks at the text*

You got the color order all wrong! You're like that one killer from the Anytime, Anywhere case!

OHNOOEEZZZ!!111

(I actually avoided using colors that were too bright to read comfortably--forgive me!)

Jd- wrote:

Akonyl wrote: *looks at the text*

You got the color order all wrong! You're like that one killer from the Anytime, Anywhere case!

OHNOOEEZZZ!!111

(I actually avoided using colors that were too bright to read comfortably--forgive me!)

Jd-, you should know I don't forget such heinous crimes so easily.

I will never forgive you.

ranger wrote: Then we have the mysterious antidotes and cures from the Eastern side; vials containg herbs and roots, ginseng and ginger, and acupuncture methods have all proven to be very effective, if not sometimes better than current Western treatment.  But why is this so?

This statement makes my science cry.

kirite wrote: I like eastern medicine better because it's more natural and they try to go to the root of the problem instead of just treating the problem area.

Please do make me more sad.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:

kirite wrote: I like eastern medicine better because it's more natural and they try to go to the root of the problem instead of just treating the problem area.

Please do make me more sad.

I just hope the root of the problem is that you have extra pocket money, cause in that case, they are just the guys for the job.