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Grammar question

Posted: February 3rd, 2010, 1:06 pm
by Callid
I got back an English test today, and I still can't believe my teacher's correction. In the analysis of a cartoon I wrote "... the face of the man ...".

Of course, this is not the best way to put it, and my teacher's correction "the man's face" may be better - however, the teacher marked "the face of the man" with gr - grammar mistake. Is it indeed a grammar mistake or is it only bad style?

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 3rd, 2010, 1:46 pm
by Akonyl
it's just bad style, if you ever said that people would probably think you're weird (well it might not seem weird depending on the context, such as if you're elaborating on the man afterwards, if he's already been mentioned, blablabla etcetcetc).

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 3rd, 2010, 1:58 pm
by Callid
The whole sentence is:

"Both of them [a man and a woman] are fat, and the face of the man looks ugly and nasty."

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 3rd, 2010, 2:04 pm
by Akonyl
hmm, well in that case I'd say "the man's face" is better, but "the face of the man" isn't too bad in that context tbh.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 3rd, 2010, 11:02 pm
by c-square
Callid wrote: The whole sentence is:

"Both of them [a man and a woman] are fat, and the face of the man looks ugly and nasty."
I think that's just fine.  Would it flow better if you had written 'the man's face'?  Sure.  But there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you wrote.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 3rd, 2010, 11:52 pm
by CoolKid3
Callid wrote: The whole sentence is:

"Both of them [a man and a woman] are fat, and the face of the man looks ugly and nasty."
For me, you don't even have to add "the face of"...  Both of them are fat and the man looks ugly and nasty... It's direct to the point that way...

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 4th, 2010, 12:09 am
by Conia
Just Bad Style, nothing to worry about.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 4th, 2010, 1:49 pm
by Callid
I just spoke to my English teacher, but she disagrees with you  :'(

Oh well, I'm changing the English course now anyway, only one teacher's (!) allowance is still needed...

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 4th, 2010, 5:39 pm
by sstimson
Callid wrote: The whole sentence is:

"Both of them [a man and a woman] are fat, and the face of the man looks ugly and nasty."
Just My two cents worth

(This is how I would phase your sentence)

Both the man and the woman are fat.  Also the man's face looks both nasty and ugly.

The Word 'of' is a preposition. Sentences can normally stand alone with out the preposition. Your sentence with out the prepositions looks like this:  "Both [a man and a woman] are fat, and the face looks ugly and nasty."

If that is what you are trying to say, then your sentences is fine. Also of note (to me) is you might be over using the word 'and', and as such, your sentence is coming close to a run on.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 4th, 2010, 7:17 pm
by Akonyl
Callid wrote: I just spoke to my English teacher, but she disagrees with you  :'(

Oh well, I'm changing the English course now anyway, only one teacher's (!) allowance is still needed...
out of curiosity, is the teacher a native English speaker who also speaks German, or a native German speaker who speaks English?

if she's the second (which is what I'm guessing), then I wouldn't worry too much.

if she's the first though, then I'd be confused.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 4th, 2010, 9:59 pm
by Boxcar Children
Grammar worst subject  ???
cant help you there ???
When I can even help myself :-[

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 5th, 2010, 5:10 am
by MouriRann
CoolKid3 wrote:
Callid wrote: The whole sentence is:

"Both of them [a man and a woman] are fat, and the face of the man looks ugly and nasty."
For me, you don't even have to add "the face of"...  Both of them are fat and the man looks ugly and nasty... It's direct to the point that way...
That's what I wanted to say.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 5th, 2010, 8:59 am
by bash7353
Callid wrote: I just spoke to my English teacher, but she disagrees with you  :'(

Oh well, I'm changing the English course now anyway, only one teacher's (!) allowance is still needed...
I happen to know that Callid is German, so I'm guessing that his teacher is a native German speaker, just like mine. Our teacher also always tells us to rather use the genitive than some of-construction. I don't know whether he'd go so far to declare "face of the man" grammatically wrong or if he'd just leave it as bad style, but he does always tell us that many German students tend to make these "mistakes" because every possible way to phrase this in German would put Gesicht (face) in front of Mann (man). I think that's why here in Germany it's considered mistake while in other non-English-countries it's rather bad style. That actual English native speakers disagree with our teachers on that doesn't seem to bother them.

It seems you're just gonna have to live with them. But it's not like English is the only subject where our teachers should get their facts straight.

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 5th, 2010, 1:05 pm
by blurfbreg
why not use "his face" instead of "the man's face" or "the face of the man" if there is no other male in the cartoon?

Re: Grammar question

Posted: February 5th, 2010, 3:28 pm
by Rellik
blurfbreg wrote: why not use "his face" instead of "the man's face" or "the face of the man" if there is no other male in the cartoon?
does that really matter?

'the man's face' certainly fits the context better, but i wouldn't call putting 'the face of the man' a grammatical error since technically it's just a longer version of 'the man's face' - and it's not a mistake to begin with anyways