The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito/DC

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The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito/DC

Post by skyechan »

On August 6, 2011 MK and DC fans were treated to an animated version of "Kaitou Kid's Busy Holiday" from Volume 1 of Magic Kaito renamed "Kaitou Kid's Busy Date". The adaptation was more or less faithful to the source material with the exception of adding a few cameos from DC.

However, as many of you who have seen the special have discovered, the existence of these cameos skews the timeline for MK and DC as we know it. In this topic I'll detail the problems and the problems with suggested solution reasoning.

First a bit of background on the original Magic Kaito chapter, "Kaitou Kid's Busy Holiday". The chapter itself was written some time during or before 1988, quite a few years before Conan first started appearing in Shonen Sunday. While both MK and DC's timelines are difficult to accurately pinpoint, we do know that certain events in both stories must take place at specific times.

What we do know must be true about the timelines:
1) Kaito learns about his father and becomes the Kaitou Kid sometime before Shin'ichi shrinks.
Proof: Kaito as Kid does the clocktower heist and unknowingly battles wits with Shin'ichi, after Shin'ichi has begun to gain a reputation as a high school detective.

2) The Black Star heist is Conan's first interaction with Kid.
Proof: Seeming to have forgotten that he almost stopped Kid as Shin'ichi, Conan asks Agasa for more information during the Black Star heist. Of course, his forgetfulness could be because he had never heard of Kid being referred to as Kaitou 1412 before. He had only battled wits with Kid once, so it's possible the name just slipped his mind. During the clocktower heist Shin'ichi also didn't know Kid practiced stage magic (he simply saw through one trick) so it's not strange for Conan to not know much about Kid during their first encounter, despite meeting before.

3) The Black Star heist occurs sometime after the clocktower heist.
Proof: The clocktower heist is presented as a flashback. Kaito remembers the heist as he prepares to fly over to the Haido City Hotel on April 1st.

4) Haibara doesn't appear until a long time after the Black Star heist.
Proof: The Black Star heist occurs in volume 16 of DC; Haibara's introduction and first interaction with Conan doesn't appear until volume 18.

5) The Angel Crown heist occurs before Kaito has learned about Pandora.
Proof: The Angel Crown heist occurs in MK volume 1 while Kaito doesn't learn about Pandora until the Blue Birthday heist in MK volume 3.

Assumed about the timeline:
The Black Star heist occurs after Kaito has learned about Pandora.
Reasoning: It's highly likely Kaito by the time of Black Star has learned about Pandora and begun searching for big gems, but we can't be certain since we don't know at what point during the MK timeline Shin'ichi is shrunk to become Conan. All we do know is that Kaito becomes Kid sometime before this occurs.

Now for the problems that make our heads spin...those cameos in "Kaitou Kid's Busy Date".

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Problem 1:
During the animated version of the Angel Crown heist, Kid disguises himself as Conan at one point and even says "There is only one truth". If this sight gag is taken seriously, it means Kid has already performed the Black Star heist and thus met Conan.
Solution: Impossible. During the Black Star heist, Nakamori knew about Kid's use of the hang-glider cape and seems to be accustomed to Kid's movements and tricks (but still unable to catch him) and is used to checking people's faces to see if they're Kid in disguise by tugging on them. While the animated version of the Angel Crown introduces the hang-glider cape prematurely, Nakamori is clearly surprised at the use of it and didn't really know about Kid's disguising abilities yet.

ImageImage

Problem 2:
The Detective Boys and Conan are shown at Tropical Land during Kaito and Aoko's date, suggesting that the Angel Crown heist takes place after Shin'ichi has shrunken and become Conan.
Solution: Majorly and utterly impossible for one simple reason: Haibara. As I pointed out earlier, the Black Star heist occurs long before Haibara's first interaction with Conan. If we assume the Black Star heist occurs after Kaito learns about Pandora, the Angel Crown heist must take place quite sometime before that, for reasons pointed out during Problem 1 above.

In short...

Don't wrack your brain coming up with excuses for the animation staff. Ignore the cameos and just consider them Easter Eggs; they are not meant to be taken seriously.
Last edited by skyechan on August 10th, 2011, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito/DC Timeline

Post by IHKF »

Well maybe the anime is going by a different timeline than the manga? Some animes don't follow the manga.
Spoiler:
For example, Chibi Vampire Karin follows a different story completely, even introducing brand new characters and taking out some of the characters from the original. It wouldn't surprise me if the animators just chose to go by a different time line.
Or maybe they're using the whole "Manga doesn't have to be in sync with anime" possibility as an excuse to make cameos and easter eggs!  ;)


But yeah, people really shouldn't worry about it! XD
Spoiler:
For all we know those are look-a-likes... since we ALL know Gosho LOVES re-using character, even though he doesn't really have anything to do with the anime...
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by Kaito Lady »

well...i personally will just ignore all that stuff and enjoy myself till death with this new KID episodes ;D
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito/DC Timeline

Post by xpon »

If i am allowed to say somethings:

1. In Magic File 2 Shinichi met with the trio Detective boys (Ayumi, Genta Mitsuhiko) while i doubt they already been together since kinder garden.
2. In anime Episode 1, we see Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko appear while the manga dont have them.
3. The clockwork tower case is more like an OVA and not really canon in the Detective Conan story line
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by IHKF »

xpon wrote: If i am allowed to say somethings:

1. In Magic File 2 Shinichi met with the trio Detective boys (Ayumi, Genta Mitsuhiko) while i doubt they already been together since kinder garden.
2. In anime Episode 1, we see Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko appear while the manga dont have them.
3. The clockwork tower case is more like an OVA and not really canon in the Detective Conan story line
All very very true. *Nods*
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by bluekaitou1412 »

The clocktower heist is still considered canon since it appeared in the MK manga :P
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by xpon »

MK!!! not Conan!! :P
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by bluekaitou1412 »

Made by the same author, probably in the same universe, and Shinichi appeared in that case. What's not canon in it? :P (Except Akako's magic, dunno about those)
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by xpon »

i say it same as OVA :P
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by MadelineLime »

I've kind of just ran with the thought that Kid doesn't actually exist in the DC universe and everything he shows up in is kind of like an OVA and is just there for shits and giggles filler. I seriously doubt he's going to ever effect the main plotline. :\

eta: I should clarify that the problems with the timeline is basically the reason I've gone with this mindset. I really like Kaitou but uggggggh.
Last edited by MadelineLime on August 9th, 2011, 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by yamiangie »

@MadelineLime does seem to exist in an endless loop of self promotion.  Doesn't he plug movie 3 in one appearance?  though it can't all be filler as at the start of one encounter Conan has black org related talk with Haibara.  I sear his ears must have been burning because she oddly makes a ref to pandora's box.  I think kid is partially aware of the 4th wall or something.

I'm guessing that Shinichi was had no clue who Kid was at all.  I bet they were finishing up a murder case when they noticed all the activity and decided to check it out.  Sort of like how they went ambulance chasing the cops in movie 8.  Then Shinichi went control freak on every thing.  I'd have to go with forgetting about the whole thing i mean even the clock tower warning note was a simple notice nothing like the coded ones from DC.  (while on note compassion why did that episode use the black star note for both?)  It's rather realistic Conan wouldn't make a connection seeing as the name was conveniently torn off.  what throws Conan off was the fact he started talking in different voiced.  No wait I've got it he really is like Homes and deletes non important things from his memory.
Want timeline issues in the Black Star case they say Nakamori was newly transferred to division 2.  though he clearly and Kid clearly know each other. Maybe they moved the department Kid's case was classified under.  Man most of the plot holes are because the writer really wanted to not give away it was Kid until those white dress shoes touched down on the hotel roof. Then felt like writing a crossover were it was Kid vs Shinichi.  This is only going to get more complicated if those new chapters of Magic Kaito do relate to Phantom Lady. 

The anime staff has way to much fun with these Kid specials much like the ovas, and movies with Kid in them.  I mean look how big they made that Conan head. Wouldn't the weirder thing mean that if it wasn't a random Easter egg that Conan went somewhere without witnessing some sort of crime.
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by bluekaitou1412 »

xpon wrote: i say it same as OVA :P
OVA=original video animation

The clocktower heist ain't an OVA because they just copied it from an MK chapter :V It's canon in the DC universe because Shin'ichi appeared in it :V
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito/DC Timeline

Post by Wakarimashita »

The way I see it, what's canon in the DC universe is what happens in the DC manga. If it's in MK, Yaiba or any other manga written by Gosho, it's not canon. It would not be honest on Gosho's part to put canon information in other manga, DC must be sufficient in itself.
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by xpon »

Wakarimashita wrote: The way I see it, what's canon in the DC universe is what happens in the DC manga. If it's in MK, Yaiba or any other manga written by Gosho, it's not canon.
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Re: The Trouble With Cameos - An Analysis of the Magic Kaito

Post by Suutashi »

skyechan wrote:
3) The Black Star heist occurs sometime after the clocktower heist.
Proof: The clocktower heist is presented as a flashback. Kaito remembers the heist as he prepares to fly over to the Haido City Hotel on April 1st.
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