Williams & Borner : The missing needle *important update*

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Kogorou
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Williams & Borner : The missing needle *important update*

Post by Kogorou »

Hello Everyone,


Maybe you already know Williams and Borner from my Riddle and Deduction Thread where both of them had their great debut.
Now it's time for them to have their own, very own, thread.
Maybe there are same fans already. There are frequent readers who always take part in those little big mysteries.

I will update this thread when I announce a new episodes of that great Detective and his Partner.

KainTheVampire has joing forces with me to bring you an even better (and more gramatically correct) experience of Williams and Borner.
Thank you Kain :)

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====UPDATE====

Williams and Borner - The missing needle.
Part III is definetly comming this summer.
With a long delay because of school and other projects but it will be there.
Read up to the case now and expect something big.

====UPDATE====

Image

Releases so far:
Williams and Borner I - The Blue Party.
Williams and Borner III - Eggnog and Cookies.

Note: Aunt Marries Vacation will be rewritten in the future :)

There are two sections "Archive" and "Latest Case"
They may not be brilliant but I think they will get better because I am constantly learning and doing my best to provide you with interesting stuff to read.

From now on I will keep it in .PDF form for you convinience because I don't like to cut all the stuff around it down.
Williams and Borner - Website
You can find all old episodes  and their solutions here:
Williams and Borner - Archive
Sorry that Case II is only a .txt with bbc-code in it. That experiment gone totally wrong.
You will find the cases there when the Solution is out.

You can always find the latest Case here:
Williams and Borner - Latest Case

The announcments for new Cases will be ONLY in here because I want to keep the Riddle and Deduction Thread as clean as possible.

The rules are as followed:
I don't work on this every time so the release dates are not always in a straight order and may not follow any rules.
I think I don't need to point out that you can't use my ideas as yours and you should at least ask me if you can use stuff I worte.

The forum time counts!!
You have four weeks starting from the posting time of the latest Case to solve it. If you answer a second too late you are out.
No questions will be answered. (I try my best to give out a complete version with nothing missing)
You send in your answers via PM. You have one try only. It won't be to hard so I think that everybody has a chance to solve it before I post the resolution.

I will make a post "The Wall of Borner" where you are named and honered when you solved a case.
If you solve more than one case I will mark that with "*" Each "*" is for one additional case solved.
I will look through the DeductionThread and see if I can find any evidence of a solved case.(My memory tells me none :D)


You can use this thread to discuss the cases. Please USE THE Subject: to make clear what you are talking about.
Give critics in here too. Help me to give you brilliant Cases of Williams and Borner.
With time I think something nice may come out of this.

Now enjoy reading and discussing.

~Kogorou
Last edited by Kogorou on May 20th, 2013, 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by eworm »

Wow, they get their own thread? I kinda thought you'd do that but after only two cases? I mean even now I'm not sure about making a thread for my Brain-Frying Riddles and there have been twice as many of them.

Good luck though. Maybe a special thread will attract more people, who wouldn't like to search the whole Riddle/Deduction Thread for your cases.

Dang, I really need to hurry up with the BFR#5...
I will finally tell where they live (and if the are living together
Please, don't make them a gay couple  :-\  In fact they barely know each other.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by Kogorou »

eworm wrote: [...]

Please, don't make them a gay couple  :-\  In fact they barely know each other.
You'll see. No comments on that yet... but yeah why do people think that two men who are living together are gay? I wonder...
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by KainTheVampire »

*agrees with Kogourou* People don't think two girls living together are lesbian.. At least I don't think so :-X
And if we take an example of the guys living together without being gay I'd say Ted and Marshall :P
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by IHKF »

KainTheVampire wrote: And if we take an example of the guys living together without being gay I'd say Ted and Marshall :P
From How I met Your Mother?
Definition of AyuCon:
An underrated couple overthrown by a mass of overrated couples in a world of fangirls/boys who like stoic characters and Mary-Sues.

"Please be okay... Ayumi!" -Conan
Definition of MitsuAi:
Best thing ever- better than ice tea on a hot day or ice cream cake at a B-Day party.

"(to Mitsuhiko) At this moment, you are my outstanding rescuer. Thanks for your help." -Haibara

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Two Questions ( for now)

Post by sstimson »

Two questions !) do you want me to move my review / comments to here and future parts 2 -
2) How did you like my Mini Mystery and should I try a longer one?
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by KainTheVampire »

IHKF wrote:
KainTheVampire wrote: And if we take an example of the guys living together without being gay I'd say Ted and Marshall :P
From How I met Your Mother?
Yeah :P
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by Kogorou »

sstimson wrote: Two questions !) do you want me to move my review / comments to here and future parts 2 -
2) How did you like my Mini Mystery and should I try a longer one?
I like it.
Still I stick to my solution :)
And yeah you should try another one and then a bigger one :)

@sstimson:
The next reviews must be posted here!
Last edited by Kogorou on September 18th, 2011, 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by sstimson »

OK. but here is a mini review

W & B first case: I still say the box on the window should have been mentioned. It not being is a good example of what I call a mini cheat. Any thing visual in a room that is part of the case should / must be mentioned. This one in particular since it played a major part of the cases ending / solution.

W & B second case review part one will be reposted here. Adding again you should not like the current riddle in the other thread have a riddle that could have more that one meaning, Yours as I played with it. should have mentioned the other place where two letters were the same. Look for part two when I get a lot of extra time.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by sstimson »

Sorry If I am spaming the thread, what I felt as Part one the W & B case 2 was a long post, it would be better to start a new message then add it to the old one
Kogorou wrote:
Spoiler:
Well the chain melted too. everything melted into the punch bowl.
Something that hot would have also melted the house and all the people in it.

Awhile a go I typed the following
sstimson wrote:
Spoiler:
Illusion

or Miss Direction
As far as Kogorous Riddle, Waiting to Critique it. Got a feeling yet again missing and should be there clues missing. Though it is possible he did state somewhere the starting point to those cards. But if he did not I might have fun. Waiting for the solution so I can type my Critique
Well that time has come. the only question is , is it ok to do this out of spoiler tags or do I need to stay in them. As this will be more then one part I will start in spoiler tags.

First the case
Spoiler:
Kogorou wrote: As I promised: The next Williams and Borner Case just for you.
You can go on here, because this will take some time.
This time I tried to keep it short(well I tried) and not to loose myself into the lyrical abyss :)
Some information won't be needed and some are really important!

Williams and Borner - Aunt Merries "Vacation"

Williams and Borner are called out to the landhouse of the McKenzies, an old an royal family of the Country.
The oldest lady of the House, Mery McKenzy fell into a depression after her husband, Lord Karl McKenzy, died four years ago.
The cicumstances of his dead are not really clear and only the mistress seems to knows something about it but always kept quiet.
He was 80 years old.

Even given her age, 78, she went out with several other men and it's said that she even was sexual active with them.
The childen are very concerned because they would equally get the heritage split between them as long as the mistress dies in the landhouse.

But now it happened - Aunt Merry is gone. Four postcards are left behind and a scrapped piece of paper with strange sentences.
Each of the postcards have the family Logo stamped onto them. Borner ordered the Head-Butler to get the cards for inspection.

There is a Traveldiary but the only thing written in it is
"There is nothing here. I took it with me. My beloved memories ~KMcK"

The people who are with Williams and Borner:
Sally Hamroy (40) is married to the family attorney and was always against her mother meeting other men.
Kelly McKenzy (35) isn't married, anymore, because she runs a travel agency in town. She doesn't really care about her mother.
Becky Hamroy (14) child of Sally and Frank Hamroy.

All of them emplyoees have a histroy of living in a family that always served the McKenzies.
The old generation always drops out when the sons and daughters are old enought to take over.

Butlers:
Henry Foller (45) is the head-butler and was raised at the landhouse and wanted to follow the family tradition.
James Foller (40) is the younger brother of Henry and doesn't look like his boss. They easily get into a fight over little things.
Paul Schwan (28) is the only child of the Schwan family, he lost his parents in a fire ten years ago. Until now the cause of the fire is unsolved.
Maids:
Caroline Foller (36) the youngest of the Foller family and she doesn't like her borthers at all.
Tim Gardener (15) working under the supervision of Caroline because he started working just a few months ago. He is different from the other servents
because he was picked by the mistress herself and gets along well with Henry Foller, who nobody really likes that much.

Gossip about the Family:
From Sally Hamroy:
* Mother always fooled Father. I saw her dating many men before.
* Father did his best to keep this family together but it cost him his life, at least I heard that from my mother when we had a fight.
* Their vacations where long and father was always so relaxed afterwards.

From Becky Hamroy:
* Granny isn't like mommy says. She is nice and gentle in her own way.
* Mommy is crazy too but she doesn't mean any harm.
* Once grandpa brought me a rock from their journey.

From Kelly McKenzy:
* Mom and Dad always liked to travel they went to so many places but only one they could never travel to. It would have killed my father.
* His lungs where weak and he needed oxygen after he went out shopping. He was fast with that. Ten minutes to town and ten back.

From Frank Hamroy:
* Well my clients always have been in a struggle about the heritage. I tried to talk sense into them. I really tried.
* That stamps are worth nothing.

From Henry Foller:
* The mistress had some business of her own, the master didn't know about it.
* What happens in this house stays in this house.

From James Foller:
* I don't know what happened but Henry was shocked when he found the body of the master.
* That poor Tim isn't really liked by anyone because of my brother.

From Paul Schwan:
* I remember a time where everything was easygoing and everbody got along well you know... before the master died.
* The master died after he went shopping. His oxygen was empty.

From Caroline Foller:
* My Father doesn't want me meet with Tim. He says Tim a strange because the tradition was broken by the mistress herself. I never heard him talking like that about the mistress.
* There never was a funeral for the Schwans. It's said the were burned in Hellfire.

From Tim Gardener:
* I am very gratefull to be here. Finally.

The scrapped piece of paper
"Emtpyness is the key, a substitute the solution."

Aunt Merry isn't a fan of long letters but a great fan of riddles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Card 1:

V is gone and 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place.
Both birds where only toys in my hands, at the same time.
Experiments go wrong and this one failed because of the oxygen.

Card 2:

After the fourth the 15 comes, also second to last.
Faithful and careful are two different things.
I wasn't careful enough, but could live with it at least a bit.
The danger in the cave, so gave it up and saved at least another life.


Card 3:

12 is the only beginning of both of this words.
The reason will show the place at hand, with two more letters you have it done.
I did the penguin too, more than once. Always aware of the situation.

Card 4:

Numbers are lucky so delete the E, it isn't needed anymore.
The cub joines the flock after years and now it's safe
because of what the flames consumed the 4 lonely years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After reading this postcards Borner knew where to search for Aunt Merry and who he has to take with him to make her come back.
He even found out what happened to the Schwans.

The questions are easy:

Where is Aunt Merry now and who knows where she is?
What is her reason to do this?
What was Borners reasoning and who took he with him?
Figure out what happened to the Schwan family.


Well you all have one week to solve this! I won't be answering any questions because I am not around anymore.
Send it via PM! NO QUESTIONS! NO HINTS! YOU HAVE ONE TRY TO GET TO GET IT RIGHT.

I will give the solution when I am back.
You won't know if you are right or wrong before.

Now brave detectives!
Start you work and save Aunt Merry until Sept. 4th 2011.
And next His solution
Spoiler:
Kogorou wrote: Well here is the Solution to the latest W&B II
Anyone who still is working on this:
DON'T READ THIS.
You can still send in your PM to see if you are right.
You won't get credit because I extended the deathline twice.

To understand any of this you have to understand
"Emtpyness is the key, a substitute the solution."

The letters in the Text can be read as
VOLE
You have to find the right order because this makes no Sense
the headbutler shuffled them around and got rid of the stamps.
After Reading you will get to this part:
The reason will show the place at hand, with two more letters you have it done.
This means you will need two other letters than V O L E.


"12 is the only beginning of both of this words."
L - 12
So L is the beginning of both of the words and due to this it's the first Postcard.

O - 15
After the fourth the 15 comes but also second.
So we have LO**O

N - 14
V is gone and 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place.
LOV*ON
LON*ON

D - 4
"Numbers are lucky so delete the E, it isn't needed anymore"+"the 4 lonely years"
So we have an E and we have a D. This isn't so hard just take the right word from the two above
LOVEON
LONDON

Where is Aunt Merry now and who knows where she is?
What is her reason to do this?
Reason: To love on
Place: London
Who knows : Henry Foller because he got rid of the stamps. (it's a butlers duty to look for new mail)

But therre is more in the letters.
Let's have a look at them.

3)
12 is the only beginning of both of this words.
The reason will show the place at hand, with two more letters you have it done.
I did the penguin too, more than once. Always aware of the situation.

=>The penguin means the butler. So Aunt Merry also "did" the Butlers but was always aware that something could happen.

2)
After the fourth the 15 comes but also second.

=> Read this slow and for get about the last few words.
After the forth the 15 comes => She got pregnant. Well How do we figure out who's the son?
We only have the 15 it means O but there is no one names O. So let's assume there is another meaning to it.
15 .... look up ahead and you see who's 15 years old => Tim Gardener

Faithful and careful are two different things.
I wasn't careful enough, but could live with it at least a bit.
The danger in the cave, so gave it up and saved at least another life.

=> Obviously there was something going on and Tim was send away to be save.
Why would he be send away to be protected from what? Well the answer is easy Lord McKenzy

1)
V is gone and 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place.
Both birds where only toys in my hands, at the same time.

=> Both Birds means the Schwan Family. At the same time .... well Aunt Merry was quite active ^^

Experiments go wrong.

=> So the experiment with the Schwans went wrong but what could it be?

4)
Numbers are lucky so delete the E, it isn't needed anymore.
The cub joines the family after years and now it's safe
because the flames consumed the 4 lonely years.

=> Now we see that the cub (Tim) is back at home because the flames (a fire) killed something (or someone)

With that we have quite a nice overlook on what was going on. But there are still questions unanswered!
What was Borners reasoning and who took he with him?
=> This one is quite easy now isn't it.
Borners reasoning:
With some looks on the letters and his sharp mind he figured out that VOLE doesn't make sense... why would a mouse make any sense??
So he shuffled around a bit and got to the reasoning I presented you earlier?
Who did he take with him? Well therefor we have to look at this:
"Emtpyness is the key,..."
What would be more empty them the heart of a mother who gave up her own child?
So he took Tim Gardner and flew down to London and Aunt Merry was save back at home.

Figure out what happened to the Schwan family.
Here we have a dark secret of the McKenzies. The Schwan family died that is true.
But how?
Well the information you have should be enough to get some hunches.
Normally I don't work that way but I wanted to know how creative you can be.
There are several indicators:

From Henry Foller:
* The mistress had some business of her own, the master didn't know about it.

From James Foller:
* I don't know what happened but Henry was shocked when he found the body of the master.

From Caroline Foller:
* There never was a funeral for the Schwans. It's said the were burned in Hellfire.

This plus the hints from Aunt Merry leads to one conclusion:
Henry Foller found out that Lord McKenzy came alone his wifes afairs and put an end to them.
He burned down the house of the Schwans with nearly every family member in it.
Given the fact that Henry Foller found the master dead in his room, which can only happen if he
doesn't get enough oxyen after a shopping trip, Foller instantly knew how the fire was lit that killed the Schwans.
Lord McKenzy lit one of his oxygen-tanks.


Here is the short Version for everyone who doesn't want to read long texts


Aunt Merry is in London and Henry Foller knows it because he was the one who sratched off the poststamps on the cards and replaced them with the family Logo.
Borner has to bring Tim Gardener because he is the secret son of Merry and Henry / Because his name is Garndener (It's always the Gardener) / Emtyness in her heart
And now my thoughts about the above.

The first thing that becomes clear is that to solve the riddle you must have a starting point and I will give him this he did spell the Starting point here
Spoiler:
There is a Travel diary but the only thing written in it is
"There is nothing here. I took it with me. My beloved memories ~KMcK"
he mentioned the word spelled different but the highlighted word has all the letters he need.

His word that he uses in his solution does not seem to relate to his puzzle unless maybe the behavior of one the family members is like this animal.

Next I look at the four cards which I figure are key of the puzzle
Spoiler:
V is gone and 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place.
Both birds where only toys in my hands, at the same time.
Experiments go wrong and this one failed because of the oxygen.

Card 2:

After the fourth the 15 comes, also second to last.
Faithful and careful are two different things.
I wasn't careful enough, but could live with it at least a bit.
The danger in the cave, so gave it up and saved at least another life.


Card 3:

12 is the only beginning of both of this words.
The reason will show the place at hand, with two more letters you have it done.
I did the penguin too, more than once. Always aware of the situation.

Card 4:

Numbers are lucky so delete the E, it isn't needed anymore.
The cub joins the flock after years and now it's safe
because of what the flames consumed the 4 lonely years.
Here we are clearly given two letters of the starting point. But there is a problem. We do not know how long this starting point is. Yes we have four cards but does that mean four letters, words, sentences, paragraphs, or chapters. I could continue to Books, volumes or works.
and as he now know the solution of this part has six letters. But can that be figured out by just his riddle?

well I see this eight person named and nine pieces of gossip. ( the missing name person is Frank Hamroy ) we know nothing about him. Can we find a way to put a six in. Well we got three kids and five servants. It Frank H was a servant, that would do it, but as already stated, we know next to nothing about him. The riddle says to put 14 in and again the same question come up as the number of words, letters etc of our starting point. But can we infer we are dealing with letters? Back to the cards. See above for them.

Card one says third and last place and "v" is gone. This might be a hint we are dealing with letters. so from card one we get this

The start is at least 4 letters long and has a V . Why four? Because the third is not the last, so we need one more letter at least for that.

Next card - after the fourth , second to the last.

This means our word or maybe start has six letter at least because again the fourth is not the last or even second to the last so add two more letters.

Next card - 12 is the only beginning of both of this words. The reason will show the place at hand, with two more letters you have it done

Confusion here. First we thought we are dealing with letters and here it suggest more then word. But towards the end it says again letters and two more letters but two more letters from where. Not the end as that makes no sense, so maybe the start and if so then if we are right about the end having six letters or more, then the start would be four or more and so far six still holds.

Next and final card - Numbers are lucky so delete the E, it isn't needed anymore.

Ok again the final card does not seem to add any more letters and we know the start should be a four letter word with a V and an E in it and our six letter final word does not have either a V  or a E in it.

Back to the first card and this time lets look at the numbers in these cards

Card 1 - 14 placed in
Card 2 - the 15 comes
Card 3 -  12 is the only beginning

as we know we are dealing with a six letter final word and the normal English alphabet has 26 letters. we have a 12,14 15, letters in the middle. But there comes a question. What do these letters mean? Starting with card 1 - a 14 in place of a v. Normal I would think of subtracting one from the other but is this case we get either a negative number 14-22 is -8 or 8. which would be the letter H Here is a riddle name a six letter word with a H as the third letter and maybe the last as well. By the way the 14 letter is an N and that is a more likely letter so for now let believe that the number mean letters positions.( N shows up in more words then H) That would be n,o,l . Next back to the spoiler part as we put in together
Spoiler:
_ _ _ _ _ _
Card 1 - 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place

_ _ N _ _ N

Card 2 - After the fourth the 15 comes, also second to last
_ _ N _ O N

Card 3 - 12 is the only beginning of both of this words. ( meaning our start and finish )
L _ N _ O N (start) L _ _ _

Back to card 1 - V is gone and 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place.( working on the start word ) what if out 4 letter word has a v as the third letter

L _ N _ O N (start) L _ V _

card 2 & 3 add nothing to the start but Card 4 does

card 4- Numbers are lucky so delete the E,
len is not a number, neon is not a number
but one is so E would be the last letter is the start or L _ V E

lets try to solve that second letter now it must be a vowel. so the possible are Lave, Leve, Live, Love, Luve, and maybe Lyve but A,E,and Y do not made words so we got an  A,I, or O as the second letter.
first A
LAN_ON
and this is funny just for fun I tried a Z as the missing letter and guess what it is a real word

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanz%C3%B3n and that would suggest Peru ( be interesting to hear why it is not there)
Need to think more so for now end of part one

PS - Still need to do part two
Spoiler:
I should put this at the end but I realized something he has us put a "o" in from card 2 and I feel it should say this  instead of this:
or this:  
After the fourth the 15 comes, also second to last.

should read as this
After the first the 15 comes, also second to last.

why can I say that. I have always felt the writer needs to be consistent and on both card 1 and 3, he tells us where to put all cases of a certain letter but in letter two he does this:

After the fourth the 15 comes, also second to last.

notice in our six letter word the second to the last (5th) is also after the fourth (5th) but the second letter is the same as the 5th.

again to make my point look at this card 1 - V is gone and 14 placed in, right at third- and last in place

the same letter is placed  at spot 3 and spot 6

but in card 2, he should have told us that the same letter went in spot 2 as spot 5

just my thoughts
Last edited by sstimson on October 10th, 2011, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by Kogorou »

I finally got myself to setup a better server for my stuff and I gave Williams and Borner some space too :)
I will work on that whenever I have time :)
Stay tuned.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner

Post by kirite »

The content of this thread is simply awesome, awesome, awesome <3
Hey, I have an idea, let's have a THIS SUCKS / NO THIS SUCKS / NO YOU / NO YOU argument for a couple pages, that will really be great. - Ingmar
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner *reborn*

Post by Kogorou »

Yeah I am back, the last few months were uber busy but not I think I can start writing the Solution that I promised a long time ago :P
Due to the fact that nobody even tried to contact me and nobody contacted me made me angry and I dropped the whole stuff.
Well I think I shouldn't have done that at hand and should have waited until my head cooled down but that wasn't the case. So I decided to wait a bit and see what happens. Well nothing happened at all.
BUT:
One thing changed! I miss developing and writing the cases and so I am back and due to the fact that I have them in digital form, I will share them with you. No competition whatsoever. You can download them or leave them alone.
The release shedule will be every three months I guess. I have to see how much time I have at hand and how I want to spend it.
The website will be back soon (that means when the solution part is out)

And herby I annouce:
Williams and Borner - The Orphanage at the end of the world
It will be the soultion of the last case within a solution for the case I present you.
For people who read the last part, you may have noticed something.
This will be explained and will lead to a case that you haven't seen before.

I hope with this you will forgive me and my irrational action of dropping Williams and Borner.
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Re: Mouri Kogorou-sama presents: Williams & Borner *reborn*

Post by Iwamoto Yuri »

Whoo, welcome back gorou-Kun~
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Yuri gets advice from little fairies, and is thereby not held responsible for any stupid action
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The Doctor wrote:There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.
The Doctor wrote:Remember: Hate is always foolish, and love is always wise.
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